Will Apple except an emulated console monkey game?
Monkey Targets Forums/iOS/Will Apple except an emulated console monkey game?
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| I have just setup monkey x and Monkey 2 I ported an older blitz max program to Monkey it took a couple of days, it's on my iPhone and Android phone already working without sound (soon) Do emulated games get accepted by Apple ? It's a 1983 console game "jump bug". I'm releasing an Android version at the google App Store as soon as I finish the controls and sound but the game is playable finished game, the 8 bit colours really pop out ! I assume some adjustments will be needed in xCode or are Monkey apps being rejected because of any reason flat out ? In this case I will concentrate on the Android release first. Any experiences / comments welcome. Also I don't want my builds called "MonkeyGame" but I supposed the term is throughout the source code ? |
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| You used the word Emulated. That means that it requires an external ROM or Software image, and such things have a copyright. Apple or any other would reject it out right if you do not own a licence from current intellectual property owner of that ROM/Software. And the IP will take action against you for trying to distribute it, you may end up getting a cease and desist injunction against you or worse, a nice hefty fine if you do not own the original game in the original packaged form. You can only legally distribute such software as long as you have a license to do so from the IP. If you have all the permissions and licenses; then Apple would allow such applications. Look for the ZX Spectrum simulator in the AppStore. As far as I'm aware there is no such restrictions on creating a game with a similar style of game play as long as you do not attempt to copy the title, graphic or audio style. |
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| The company closed 30 years ago. I'm thinking of porting my VZ200 emulator to Monkey in which case I would compile my own Lite BASIC with enough to enter commands and load programmes and handle interrupts. So you recommend Android then ? LoL |
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| So you recommend Android then See "or any other would reject it ".No company in their right mind would leave themselves open for a law suit for something so obvious. The company closed 30 years ago. Wouldn't matter. Someone will hold the IP somewhere. It's just a case of finding out who the current owner is, not an easy task as it could have changed hand a number of times. After 70 years (or the laws in your country), then it wouldn't matter unless the owner of the IP renews it before the copyright expires. |
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| There are a ship load of emulators on google play , I'm confused ? are they all confirmed licence holders ? I have been distributing this game since 2004 haven't heard from Atari yet ? If they sue could I use my poverty as a defence because I would not be able to pay even a small fine even if they close my bank account ? Remember I am a programmer not a dentist. As an indie developer starting out I would actually welcome action from Atari , the publicity could get my brand name out to large numbers of my audience so long as they mention my URL look McAfee had to do hard time but everyone's heard of him. I'm going to submit it to google play but I will change the name from "Jump Bug" to "Rust Bug" |
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| Some IP's do release their property as freeware,or public domain and there is a lot of ambiguity as to what such terms mean. It would be up to you determine the current status of a piece of software by contacting the current IP holder. For Atari search Atari Age of on of the other Atari forums. f they sue could I use my poverty as a defence because I would not be able to pay even a small fine even if they close my bank account ? No they would strip you of your assets, or make you pay by instalments. It would be up to the courts to decide which. I'm going to submit it to google play but I will change the name from "Jump Bug" to "Rust Bug" Changing the name would not do if the underlying code is the same. |
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| They climbed over Kim's fence and took all his cars and stuff for infringing copyrights that was just down the road , his wife was lovely little thing but she left soon after the cars. |
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| Well you can have luck or not, but I would NOT just try it. I had trouble two times with trademark issues, my first game was called Battleship (well ya this famous pen and paper game) and I never thought before that this stupid generic name could be trademarked. Indeed it is. I had luck got contacted by Hasbro (the owner) and just changed the name. If you are in a more unlucky situation this can become very, very, I mean VERY expensive for you. You can publish whatever you like, just never use the original names, nor any original graphics and sound/music without the agreement of the IP holder. When you just use the same gameplay you are fine. And no, it DOESN'T matter if that company is dead since years. The IPs are usually still alive. |
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| I heard that the Sci-Fi movie Battleship had the same problem, though I think that the law needs changing so that companies such as King cannot get away with trademarking generic words such a saga and the sue anybody else for using it. I Had to warn Mainsworthy the other week for using MAD MAX in one of his games. |
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| Luck would have it my game is called "Rust Bug" so I'm good. In my game you have to jump a rusty VW beetle across town and collect bottles of rust-killer to restore your beetle. |
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| If you are determined to try to fly under the radar, you should at least stay clear of mobile, IMO. You cannot have popularity without visibility there, and it's harder to be anonymous - so whatever the chances of getting in some sort of trouble are, mobile increases them. (You could have a side-loaded APK off the Play Store, but then you would have less reach than desktop or web formats.) |
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| So I see Sony have given away the rights to PSP because there are half a dozen emulators for it on google play ? So if I emulate Sony I'm good because google play wouldn't have excepted them if Sony wasn't open to emulate freely ? Will sega be in contact with me ? Sometimes these companies offer to buy the product ? I know of a website that's been distributing jump bug for over a decade , will sega seek a cumulative money amount per year in damages from this website owner ? Why are there so many emulators (accordingly illegal versions) on google play ???? Anyone here had legal action yet ? How would sega claim a financial lose from a discontinued game ? How will sega find out where I live for example ? People have very strong opinions on what's legal but in law previous judgements are used , are there any actual cases of indie developers going to the court house over say a ZX81 emulator ? (This has become like the Apple vs Windows thread in which case Apple was declared superior, which was actually a thread about something else.) |
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| I really didn't want to know about the efficacy of emulation , I was referring Monkey Apps ability to be published/accepted by Apple , ie will Apple reject a monkey build because something is missing , legalities aside please because that is a great discussion for lawyers to have on a legal forum but I want to know about programming. Should I start a seperate thread in general/off topic "are emulators legal" ? Then this thread could be about programming in Monkey X ? I am going to submit my App I'm not flying under any radar ? I'm openly going to publish my app to app stores but I want a quality App and i was just wondering if monkey apps get accepted or not in general I wasn't thinking when I started this thread it's another pseudo thread about copyrights. |
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| So I see Sony have given away the rights to PSP because there are half a dozen emulators for it on google play ? You are getting Emulators and the software that they emulate mixed up. And I can bet you any money that the firmware supplied with them is a custom creation, unless the IP has officially release the original firmware as either public domain, freeware or open source.So if I emulate Sony I'm good because google play wouldn't have excepted them if Sony wasn't open to emulate freely ? Will sega be in contact with me ? Sometimes these companies offer to buy the product ? I know of a website that's been distributing jump bug for over a decade , will sega seek a cumulative money amount per year in damages from this website owner ? Why are there so many emulators (accordingly illegal versions) on google play ???? Emulators in themselves are not illegal, but what you distribute with them could be flouting the law. Anyone here had legal action yet ? I wouldn't think so, but there have been a few warnings issued by IP's that I'm aware of. And some how I don't think that a small developer that's maybe making a modest income would like to go up against a corporation willing to spend millions in court fees to protect their IP. How would sega claim a financial lose from a discontinued game ? Because they may decide to re-release a game for that platform. The more popular the game was; then more likely that they will re-release it in some form for a different platform. See Rare playThis also brings you to 'flying under the radar'. If a game was popular back in its day; then the chances are that it would soon be spotted and be told to remove it. How will sega find out where I live for example ? You will be leaving an electronic paper trail right to your front door. Apple, Google and any web server company need away to contact you. And that usually means they need an email address and billing information. If they really want to talk to you; all it takes is a court warrant to get that information, and before any mention of Apple vs US Government over locked iPhones: that was Apple using the law to protect their IP. I really didn't want to know about the efficacy of emulation , I was referring Monkey Apps ability to be published/accepted by Apple , ie will Apple reject a monkey build because something is missing , legalities aside please because that is a great discussion for lawyers to have on a legal forum but I want to know about programming. Your first post quoted below has no mention of 'would it be accepted if something is missing' and I told you in my first post one of the reasons why an application be it create with MonkeyX or natively in some other coding tool would be rejected. And yes, Apple and other Appstores will reject a build if something is missing, more so if its something that prevents them starting and testing the application. It should tell you in their terms and conditions for deployment; a legally binding document. And what you asked in the opening post comes under deployment and I gave you answer to that effect.And just so you will know in future, at some point legalities always crops up in one form or another when writing and deploying software. If you don't like the advice and warnings; then go a head and release it and see what happens. It will either be rejected, or accepted and the chances are that its will be removed at a later time if accepted, and you may get contracted by the representatives of the IP; then you will soon find out about legalities depending how vicious the holder of the IP is at protecting it. WILL APPLE EXCEPT AN EMULATED CONSOLE MONKEY GAME? I have just setup monkey x and Monkey 2 I ported an older blitz max program to Monkey it took a couple of days, it's on my iPhone and Android phone already working without sound (soon) Do emulated games get accepted by Apple ? It's a 1983 console game "jump bug". I'm releasing an Android version at the google App Store as soon as I finish the controls and sound but the game is playable finished game, the 8 bit colours really pop out ! I assume some adjustments will be needed in xCode or are Monkey apps being rejected because of any reason flat out ? In this case I will concentrate on the Android release first. Any experiences / comments welcome. Also I don't want my builds called "MonkeyGame" but I supposed the term is throughout the source code ? Edit: It looks like the current owner of Jump Bug is SNK. If think I remember that game back in the 198s. |
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| As far as I know, Apple don't care what language your game is written in, so long as it works. I don't know about Mac, but in Android there are pre-processor values #ANDROID_APP_LABEL and #ANDROID_APP_PACKAGE that allow you to set internal name strings. It still compiles to MonkeyGame.APK, but you can just rename it. I would assume that on Mac, something similar applies. |
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| @Gerry: For iOS the major changes as renaming have to be do via xcode. Usually under product name and bundle config items. |
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| I will write a letter explaining that there game and many more of there copyright games have been distributed by an Australian website for over 10+ years ! If they write back and I see the website taken down I will except everything said, but this guy is distributing amiga bios roms and there are download pages containing hundreds of illegal copyright software owned by large companies. I will compile a list of companies he is ripping off and contact the dozen companies being ripped off , Sony, sega etc. If he is shut down or not I will report back here. This guy preaches about copyright laws on forums as "minuous1" and gets nasty when he thinks someone uses snippets from his pirated software, which he stole. He preaches very firmly "his copyright opinions" he believes if he publishes someone else's closed source project that it's legal because it's now open source" and of course he can distribute Roma so long as he follows "the rules" and have them in a seperate zip folder they are now legal downloads. Do you see what I'm saying, if your not a qualified international copyright lawyer you are just presenting an opinion but these illegal sites are not closed down, I'm a programmer no lawyer has advised me everyone has an opinion. I'm also going to contact sega and inform them that I intend on distributing jump bug and I'm prepared to fight it out in court but I expect them to take down the websites distributing the rom image. amigan.1emu.net |
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| I will write a letter explaining that there game and many more of there copyright games have been distributed by an Australian website for over 10+ years ! If they write back and I see the website taken down I will except everything said, but this guy is distributing amiga bios roms and there are download pages containing hundreds of illegal copyright software owned by large companies. I will compile a list of companies he is ripping off and contact the dozen companies being ripped off , Sony, sega etc. If he is shut down or not I will report back here. This guy preaches about copyright laws on forums as "minuous1" and gets nasty when he thinks someone uses snippets from his pirated software, which he stole. He preaches very firmly "his copyright opinions" he believes if he publishes someone else's closed source project that it's legal because it's now open source" and of course he can distribute Roma so long as he follows "the rules" and have them in a seperate zip folder they are now legal downloads. Do you see what I'm saying, if your not a qualified international copyright lawyer you are just presenting an opinion but these illegal sites are not closed down, I'm a programmer no lawyer has advised me everyone has an opinion. I'm also going to contact sega and inform them that I intend on distributing jump bug and I'm prepared to fight it out in court but I expect them to take down the websites distributing the rom image. You say it's illegal so how do you explain this site ? amigan.1emu.net |
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| I'm also going to contact sega and inform them that I intend on distributing jump bug and I'm prepared to fight it out in court but I expect them to take down the websites distributing the rom image. Before you even consider embarking on such an endeavour, seek the advice of a very, very good solicitor or even a very, very bad one as both would advice you against such action. If you did and they actually responded; then they would more than likely want to know where you got hold of the ROM image. Even if you own the original ROM in it's original form and have made a copy as a backup is no guarantee from prosecution. The law on personal backup copies vary from country to country. This guy preaches about copyright laws on forums as "minuous1" and gets nasty when he thinks someone uses snippets from his pirated software, which he stole. He preaches very firmly "his copyright opinions" he believes if he publishes someone else's closed source project that it's legal because it's now open source" and of course he can distribute Roma so long as he follows "the rules" and have them in a seperate zip folder they are now legal downloads. So you are saying that what I have been trying to tell you is my opinion? Well here is Nintendo's opinion, and you cannot get more international than that with their legal team. Nintendo are known to seek out illegal distribution sites and where possible get them shut down with the occasional prosecution. There are also a number of other organisations such a Entertainment Software Association; this is a trade association which Nintendo, SONY and a number of other big software companies are apart of. They actually chase down those that pirate software, which is what the copying of a firmware ROM or software media really without is the IP's written consent no matter how old the software/ROM is. And as these companies tend to be in such organisations, so you can take it as read that they pretty much all sing from the same hymn book when it comes to enforcing copyright law. If you want to report copyright violations; then you contact these organisations as companies seldom respond to individuals. But even if the actually get these distribution sites shut down, it wouldn't stop such sites from popping up with illegal downloads else where, were there maybe no copyright treaties. And as for this minuous1, he is in for a very big shock when someone who he's been ripping off with some real financial clout see what he's doing and takes action. There is no such thing as open-source or freeware without the original author of the works giving their consent, this is usually done by a license supplied by the software. This is the thing that most people never bother to read that tells you what and what you cannot do with said distributed software.Do you see what I'm saying, if your not a qualified international copyright lawyer you are just presenting an opinion but these illegal sites are not closed down And as for amigan.1emu.net; they are boarder-line with what they call Abandon-ware and as most of what they are serving appears obscure, the site has probably slipped under the radar of anyone checking for IP infringements. Abandon-ware is a term given to software where either the IP owner is no longer actively enforcing their rights, or who ever owns the IP is no longer clearly known. This doesn't mean that it can be legally distributed; there is nothing stopping the original owner of the IP from enforcing their rights again. And unlike World of Spectrum. The persons behind this site has not given any clear indication as whether or not they have made any attempt to contact the IP owners for permission to distribute such software. I'm a programmer no lawyer has advised me everyone has an opinion. And if you still think that all of what I said is 'just my opinion' then you should have a serious talk to a legal adviser on such matters, just the same as I have in the past. They will basically say the same things that I have said. |
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| Legal advice should be given by lawyers who practice law , this is a programmers forum for programmers, ALL of the opinions programmers are giving here that you advise can't be done , is actively being practiced all over the web, my software is illegally distributed and I can't stop it, hundreds of illegal unlicensed emulators on google play but according to programmers that's impossible. Thank you for the legal advice , where did you study ? How many years did you study in the area of copyright law ? What legal qualifications do hold ? Blitz Research Limited once published my emulator and ROMs on its blitzmax home page , is BRL being sued ? |
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| Thank you for the legal advice. END NEW Thread is now regarding programming. Continue. Any issues publishing a monkey App , will it need much work in Xcode ? Do monkey apps get on at Apple (in general) Lawyers be silent ! |
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| Do monkey apps get on at Apple (in general) Yes and with no Xcode changes beyond adding in icons, orientation settings and account details. Keep in mind though that Apple's App Store is more strict than Google's Play Store. For iOS all apps must be compiled in 64bit, if using networking then it must support IPV6. They must also fully support suspend / resume. They can not use any private API's. Your app must not have a quit app option. Apple are also quite strict on emulators and there are no clear rules on what is accepted and what isn't. They are also very weary on content that may infringe on others copyright and are also keen to avoid a mass of multiple apps copying each other. You may also find that your app gets initially refused but accepted on a second submit. So it's always worth submitting twice in a row and then dealing with any issues raised. |
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| Boulderdash, sorry for that but I have to say this at least: I'm not a lawyer, I'm a coder. But even I know the pain to be contacted by a lawyer. Simply because you don't know the rules and laws you are NOT allowed to abuse them and say afterwards "well I did not know". Lawyers give a shit about what you think and why you do things the way you do. They simply don't care and will let you knee down. ;) But just go on, do what you want to do, don't listen to us and make your own mistakes. You even might be lucky and get through with all that stuff. Or not. I don't know. |
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| where did you study ? How many years did you study in the area of copyright law ? What legal qualifications do hold ? I didn't need to. I listened to those that gave warnings and advice that had been through such situations themselves, checked up (UK government web site has a dedicated section for information on Copyright/Trade Marks and patents) and spoke to those that have actually studied law and heeded what they had to say on such matters. I make it a priority to read any licence for software libraries that I wish to use for. If I don't fully understand it; then I seek legal advice. And I would never sign any contract that deals with copyrights or vast amounts of money without getting it first checked out by a lawyer, so that I don't end up getting screwed over.Buy hey as Xaron says: "But just go on, do what you want to do, don't listen to us and make your own mistakes. You even might be lucky and get through with all that stuff. Or not. I don't know." |
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| I have to say just one thing: I bet this "minuous1" dude never wrote Sega a letter... |
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| Qube said: "Your app must not have a quit app option" That is so bonkers, why do they even care? Android don't like the option either, but at least they don't fret if you include it. I know I personally hate games that don't allow you to just stop them altogether. |
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| I have decided to write my own BASIC interpreter in 8 bit assembly language for my emulator and my own "hello world" for each console emulated and I will use my own assembler which I'm porting to monkey. I'm running something like the 8080 emulator mentioned on this forum but I'm not emulating coin-ops and it's a signetics CPU and graphics chip. Yes the second Monkey emulator ! there should be a demo ready soon , it's working but at half speed in mojo 1 (Android) It's really fast on every other platform. I'm thinking of doing the Altair, ZX81, VZ200, ORIC, spectrum, Arcadia, interton, Apple II , PET etc, etc. each with my own BASIC copyright me ! each will send cassette audio to the real computer and has an assembler. I already have a working BlitzMax version for Mac and Windows so it's just a matter of porting it to Monkey then Monkey 2 This is coming together at high speed because it's already written just a matter of porting , I'm already playing Arcadia 2001 games in every target. |
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| Fantastic! I wish you good luck with it and sorry for my maybe harsh words. :) |
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| I'm already playing Arcadia 2001 games in every target As IP was a topic in this post here, be aware that there seems to be a current rights holder to Arcadia games. Bridgestone Multimedia. Arcadia Coorporation -> Starpath -> Epyx -> Bridgestone Multimedia Group |
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