Pypes - are these stages too hard\easy?
Monkey Archive Forums/Monkey Projects/Pypes - are these stages too hard\easy?
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| for some reason it crashes on the 2nd stage "array out of bounds error", what is odd is it does not crash when running on localhost (HTML5), Android emulator or real android device in release or debug build?! Frankly that has really annoyed me as it makes no sense what so ever, I'll try and fix tomorrow, but going to be hard to track a bug I can only test for once I have uploaded to my site, if it is a bug ARRRRGGGG! Hum i think I found the bug, not a bug its a windows\unix thing, I split my files into lines of data with "~r~n" I think that is crapping out as my host is Unix not Windows. Now that's a gotcha. OK fixed now. I have just finished the coding for my game and I am starting the stage design, problem is I don't know how hard (gold star) to or easy (silver star) to make them. You can play the game here http://moarlasers.com/pypes/html5/index.html (designed for phone\tablet), only the fist 8 stages are playable they vary from real easy to real hard (IMHO). Wondering how many people would stick it out to get a Gold star or would rather take the easier silver star. 1. Should I create more stages of less difficulty or less stage of more difficulty? 2. General opinions of the game, the look\feel and presentation 3. This a game you'ed pick up and play when waiting for the bus etc? 4. Should I add music? (mobile game)  |
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| Looks excellent, I was half expecting to see liquid running thru the pipes... 4. Should I add music? (mobile game) This is a question I am asking myself right now too... I think some music is good, but you dont want to increase your app size too much and you dont want to players to close your app due to the same music playing over and over again... When I played it, I had this error after completing the first level: 22 >1 i y t 22 Monkey Runtime Error : Array index out of range Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/fileStageIO.monkey<53> Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/messageBox.monkey<451> Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/messageBox.monkey<190> Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/messageBox.monkey<81> Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/main.monkey<133> Z:/_Monkey/modules/mojo/app.monkey<105> Running on Windows 7 - Firefox 29 |
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Eror happens when going straight to stage 2 after a refresh, too.Monkey Runtime Error : Array index out of range Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/fileStageIO.monkey<53> Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/screenGame.monkey<16> Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/engine.monkey<135> Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/engine.monkey<205> Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/engine.monkey<114> Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/engine.monkey<228> Z:/_Projects/pipe game/main/main.monkey<132> Z:/_Monkey/modules/mojo/app.monkey<105> |
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| I just fixed that issue, still not sure if it was the windows\unix 'new line' thing, no time this morning to do a proper fix so just fudged it to get it working. |
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| 1. Should I create more stages of less difficulty or less stage of more difficulty? They were all easy from my perspective. I was able to solve all of the moves before I did anything. I'm probably not your average player though. I mean that literally because my IQ is 136 which is 36 above a normal person. So listening to my opinion on this particular part is probably a bad idea. 2. General opinions of the game, the look\feel and presentation The pipes going into the wall need to be more defined. They blend in and its hard to immediately differentiate which pipes are the ones going into the wall. I also feel like what therevills mentioned, in that water was expected. Imagine if something flowed or moved through the pipes that were connected. It would give it a more active feel. It just feels sort of slow and relaxed, if that's what you were aiming for. 3. Is this a game you'd pick up and play when waiting for the bus etc? I suppose. It's not a bad idea, but not particularly original either. It doesn't really stand out among all of the phone games. 4. Should I add music? (mobile game) Yes. If you don't know how to make music there's a certain python script that can help you out. Wondering how many people would stick it out to get a Gold star or would rather take the easier silver star. I didn't really understand this. The first few stages introduce you into just solving the pipes (all of them by default). Then on stage 4 you suddenly make it so that only putting all pipes together gives a gold star. You should make this clear from the very beginning i.e. stage 1 or 2, not stage 4, that all pipes is a gold star. Do you understand what I mean? Like, at first you're just given the impression that you need to solve the pipes in as few moves as possible, not that all pipes equals gold star. It just felt really awkward. I bothered to solve for the gold in them, but I think if I were playing it on the go that I wouldn't bother to solve for gold. Shortest path seems more worth it than solving for all pipes plus the time it takes to move them all into place. I hope what I wrote helps somewhat. Edit: Note, I did not play all that you put up. I just played for about 10 minutes. Played a handful of stages (some from each). A few felt very similar (unless that were in fact the same...). Edit 2: You know, I can clarify the gold star thing a bit. There's no incentive. I just went through and finished all of the "hard" stages in like minute (not joking). There was no incentive for me to complete the gold star for them though. The silver got me through to the next stage, so why should I bother spending the time to get gold? You need to make an incentive to get gold. Like, getting gold on lower stages unlocks the harder stages. That's what Crayon Physics did in later versions because earlier versions had no incentive to get creative. |
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| @Goodlooking That's some really nice feedback. as Rev also suggested I see no reason I cannot have water or maybe even steam spurting out of the pipe, would also add some movement to an otherwise static screen. The end pipe pieces probably should be made more distinct, probably ok when they're on the edges but when they're in the middle of of the screen they can get lost. I was always concerned about incentive to get gold so locking a number of puzzles until a user gets x number of gold starts might work as an incentive. Ideally I would like all stages to only have one solution, I could force a user to use all pipe pieces but I thought that was a little rough on those with little time so I added the gold and silver options. Music I cannot help but think that's the first thing people turn off so is it worth having it in the first instance... I'll think on this more. |
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| It depends on the puzzle type. If getting 'a' solution is an interesting challenge, and getting the 'perfect' solution is interesting and harder, I think it will work fine with silver unlocking the next level. Some people won't be interested in going for gold, others will come back and try to get all gold later. The important thing is that progress should not be awarded for something trivial (though that also means there has to be a way forward for those who are bad at it, even if it means looking up answers on a website), I think there may be a dilemma here as it seems that not using all the pipes may be too easy. There are other options such as having several unlocked instead of just one (so you can afford to skip a puzzle or two) or offering an unlock after a certain number of tries. |
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| I feel dumb :( Level one was dead easy, but level two feels like there are missing vertical pipes... I'm I missing something, can you rotate the pipes? |
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Number 2: |
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| Number 2: Thanks! Now I feel even dumber ;) G'ah!!! So simple, stupid!! |
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| My friend/artist/co-worker gave their impression of it. 1. The difficulty seems aright. It's better to have more stages of less difficulty since getting gold stars is already hard enough, so more content for those who just want to play casually and anyone wanting a challenge can go for gold stars. 2. General presentation is alright. I'd suggest making the exist pipes more noticeable cause one of the early puzzles had an exit pipe in the middle of the stage surrounded by pipe pieces and couldn't tell which ones I was supposed to move at first. The overall look and feel was alright. 3. Yeah, I could pick up and play this game. It's similar to the kind I already play on my phone when bored, so it's a nice simple puzzle game. 4. Maybe add music? I didn't really like the noise the pieces made when moved. Puzzles like these require a lot of picking things up and moving them around, especially if you're trying the gold star challenges, so having a loud THUD every time I do got a bit grating after a while. Music would be a nicer alternative, or at least nicer sound effects. Either would work. 5. I like the concept of the gold star challenges, so long as they're just a little extra something for those who want a challenge. I got stumped like five puzzles in, so I'm guessing some of the gold star challenges will get very hard and thus are very easy to stop caring about, but most people will likely just wanna beat the puzzles real quick and be done anyways, so having a hard, time-consuming optional challenge isn't an issue. Overall I liked it. Games like those are the kind I like most out of all mobile games, so it's definitely something I'd be interested in trying out if I saw it, just for fun. By the way, I solved and have pictures for gold 4, 6, 7, and 8. Gold 5 I could not find a solution to. So that is are actually harder than 6, 7, and 8 to find the gold. Both my friend and I were always left with two wrong pieces.     Edit: I want to give one more piece of feedback about the game. It needs backgrounds. The black background is very plain and old school feeling, yet the tiles resemble more of a modern look. The aesthetics contradict one another to me. |
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| The pipes going into the wall need to be more defined. ^ this. Should I add music? *Always*. Music sets the mood for any game. You can make a game without music, but that should be a decision cohesive with the game (like a horror game, where ambient sounds are important to spook the player). My impressions of the game? I got bored really quick - there is no variation on gameplay, just tubes with different colors. I also thought that using less tubes would give a higher score, not using all of them.The first stages were ok, just some tubes here and there - but the last ones, there were so many, I was just demotivated instead of challenged. Maybe instead of overwhelming the player with all tubes scattered in the level, you could have just their type on one part of the screen, like pipemania does.  |
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| @Goodlookinguy - Thanks for getting that extra feedback @Slotman - I originally had the pipe pieces separate like pipmainia but I scrapped that idea for extra screen devoted to the play area, I don't think I'll go back on this. @Rev - #facepalm Things I am going to change based on the feedback. - Add music with an easy toggle on/off like sound. - Make the end pipes more distinctive. - Add a mechanic whereby you earn 'gold star points' for completing a stage at Gold level, these points will be an in-game currency used to buy additional level sets and different pipe/walls/background skins. - Add a timed or some kind of time based attrition mode with random stage generation, with this I can add hi-scores (google play) and also be another way to earn 'gold star points'. Time to get to work. |
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| I wouldn't do these things yet, but you could get pretty far with stronger feedback loops in the game. - effect on grabbing a piece - effect on placing a piece where it snaps with an adjacent piece - effect when you place a piece next to something where it doesn't fit - effect when dragging a piece - it's pipes! Completion of a line should have a cool effect with them getting used or something. - effect when a level loads -- bricks building up, pipes falling in, etc - maybe little drips of water out of the furthest pipe you have managed to build to in a valid path from a start point? All these things make a game more fun and compelling even if the core mechanic isn't quite solid yet. I think your mechanic is solid enough, but you will need to introduce variants that keep the player feeling challenged in fresh ways. The problem with just having this one sort of puzzle forever is that it will get repetitive, and the player won't have any "aha!" breakthrough moments where there's a new conceptual approach. In other words, you are going to need new pieces (T, +), and perhaps stuff like water teleporters, mandatory intermediate stops, different gauge pipe, etc. The player will have more fun if you give them sets of easier puzzles and introuce a variant every few levels, than if you just ramp difficulty up. |
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