Extremely Happy with Monkey

Monkey Forums/Monkey Programming/Extremely Happy with Monkey

skid(Posted 2012) [#1]
I love how I can code in less space programs that are far easier to read.

I love how monkey is written in monkey.

I love how Marky's new target system is about to blow everyone's mind...

Monkey is good. Very good. Very very good.


Why0Why(Posted 2012) [#2]
I can't believe you would come on here and post this.

Everyone knows no monkey targets work out of the box.

Monkey sucks and you and everyone else knows it.

That's why I bought it and Jungle and it is all I use now :P


skid(Posted 2012) [#3]
I may ditch my next job interview so I can stay home with my monkey.


AdamRedwoods(Posted 2012) [#4]
monkey fanboy


GfK(Posted 2012) [#5]
This monkey is not for spanking.


dawlane(Posted 2012) [#6]
Will you guy's stop monkeying around this is a forum for real monkey fanatics. God you boys want to make me climb down from my tree. ;-)


Amon(Posted 2012) [#7]
This monkey is not for spanking.
Thatcher? :)

Yes! Me love me Monkey, me love it a lot.


ziggy(Posted 2012) [#8]
I have to admit that when I was seeing the first iterations of Monkey in the dev team before it was public I was a bit sceptical about what could be done with Monkey. Now I'm surprised that you can do anything with it. It's a joy to work with and the best BRL language to date. It's by far better than BlitzMax, wich has been my favourite language for years.
Now I love it too. Syntax wise is untra powerful, fast and flexible. Also, the compilation strategy is genius. I can't thing of any other alternative out there that can be considered comparable. And the compiler is public domain and most libraries are open source... I just do not understand why it is not used by an even wider audience. I supose this will be changing over time.


dawlane(Posted 2012) [#9]
I just do not understand why it is not used by an even wider audience.
I think that could be down to two reasons
1) The Sales Pitch.
2) The name Monkey makes it sound like something for kiddies.

Maybe those people who use it and publish their wares should add an acknowledgement in their software or on their web sites as a thank you for Marks tireless work on making Monkey what it is.


therevills(Posted 2012) [#10]
I love how Marky's new target system is about to blow everyone's mind...


O_o ???


Samah(Posted 2012) [#11]
Haiku:

Monkey's a great tool;
I can compile one source code
to many platforms.

Mark is a top bloke.
He knows many languages;
we only need one.


MikeHart(Posted 2012) [#12]
What is Monkey? Guess i have to visit the zoo. Or watch discovery channel?


dopeyrulz(Posted 2012) [#13]
I love how Marky's new target system is about to blow everyone's mind...

hmmm, do tell!!


Skn3(Posted 2012) [#14]
I love how Marky's new target system is about to blow everyone's mind...


ooooooo tease much! Thought something was brewing around here... exciting :D


impixi(Posted 2012) [#15]
Yep, Monkey is pretty good! But...


It's by far better than BlitzMax



I disagree with that statement. For PC/Mac/Linux desktop-targeted development, BlitzMax still 'rules the roost', IMO. BlitzMax offers quicker, more efficient, lower-level APIs than currently offered by Monkey for those platforms. Sure, you could natively code and wrap your own APIs for Monkey, but BlitzMax already includes them 'for free'. And then there's MaxGUI too.

PS: That's not really a criticism of Monkey, just a subjective observation based on my experiences coding in both languages over the past year.


ziggy(Posted 2012) [#16]
@impixi: I was refering to the language design, not to the available libraries for it. Monkey is getting some very nice libs lately and some great additions too, but BlitzMax has been more time available, and has a wider range of modules. That said, creating new modules for Monkey seems to be a lot easier. The Box2D port is awesome, there's diddy, minib3d is coming very nicely, and all in all... Our little Monkey is becoming King Kong


tiresius(Posted 2012) [#17]
I love Monkey too. And I get little monkey tears when I don't get enough time to work with it. :(


Armitage1982(Posted 2012) [#18]
I just do not understand why it is not used by an even wider audience.

I don't know...
Perhaps precisely because it is a new language!
The website communication is rather poor too.
I wouldn't ever have buy monkey if I wasn't using BlitzMax at first.

For some, going from BlitzMax to Monkey is like going from C# to Monkey, or Java to Monkey. With FREE and widely supported things like MonoGame or LibGDX, what's really the benefit to use Monkey for, let say, making a game on the 3 main platform (WML)?

The Box2D port is awesome

I think we should call it a Box2DFlash port cause it is what it is, and its great (don't get me wrong) but it's not a Box2D native port.

I see the same port of Box2DFlash / Box2dWeb / Box2dX featured everywhere and it was perfect in 2008 but today it's getting quite complicated to catch-up with the native Box2D Documentation, forum and snipped code cause the architecture behind changed radically!

As a classic Math library, Box2D should be featured by default. Or at least drastically improve the Monkey documentation on how to link dynamically (or statically ?) to native libraries. That's what I'm currently waiting cause I don't want to have another dead Blitz product, it's too costly to forget it.

new target system is about to blow everyone's mind

I hope it is heavily game related :D
Maybe a Framework, an Engine or something to enhance mojo?
...Some example like httpgetter talk about a Java Mojo Target...


Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2012) [#19]
You lot need to get your filthy hands off my monkey......... Perverts.

It's mine all mine :)


impixi(Posted 2012) [#20]
@ziggy:
If someone asked me today what I would recommend for *desktop* software development, Monkey or BlitzMax, I would recommend BlitzMax without hesitation. Monkey, on the other hand, I could not recommend without first knowing more specifics about their project - and this is entirely related to the APIs that are currently available, rather than language design/syntax.

Personally, the only language feature I miss from Monkey that's not in BlitzMax is generics. Aside from that, the two languages are very similar. Other Monkey things, like overloading and interfaces, can be easily and 'natively' 'simulated' in BlitzMax, so I don't miss them at all. BTW, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just submitting a different perspective. ;)


FelipeA(Posted 2012) [#21]
One language to rule them all!
Monkey should be used to teach kids on school how to program. I am not even a programmer or engineer and find Monkey a very easy to use language.


Xaron(Posted 2012) [#22]
I knew such a thread would pop up. LOL

Anyway, call me a Monkey fanboy as well. Monkey is the first BRL product which I made money with. Well ok, probably more a "problem" of me and not of the language. ;)


vmakar85(Posted 2012) [#23]
skid +1


It is good, it is easy to learn!


zoqfotpik(Posted 2012) [#24]
I've said from the getgo that Monkey is an absolutely dreadful name for such a product. Can you imagine going up in front of your dev team manager and trying to sell him on a product called Monkey? Such things matter to sales more than people think.

On the other hand lack of sales will hurt my competition.


Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2012) [#25]
zoq, I said the exact same thing. the name is just bonkers, some people came back to me with things like ruby,pearl and java as examples of other languages with crazy names but to me some how monkey still stands out apart from those in terms of just how mental it is.

Ruby is a gem, worth a lot.
Pearl is the same.
Java is an expensive cofe all these things bring forth thoughts of value.


MONKEY!.. ape's throwing shit at each other at the zoo ROFL.. it hardly makes you think value.

To late now tho, I just pray that when mark makes monkey2 which we all know will happen eventually, that he holds a poll to get suggestions for the name.


Soap(Posted 2012) [#26]
Monkey is like... "I need a name, I'll just call it this and not worry about it... doesn't matter... what really matters is that it is good" and so it is good. On the bright side, at least it seems to be the only language named Monkey? I do seriously love Monkey. Maybe the play was on the phrase code monkey? I guess that must be it by the domain. If that was your intention you need to incorporate it in your marketing better. If not then happy accident - still incorporate it in your marketing. "Tired of being a code monkey? Yadda yadda yadda. Give us your money for our Monkey."

.co.nz shows pride, but it is not smart to use for a commercially global product. Monkey as a keyword would be impossible to search for and find this site on any search engine. Another marketing disaster. :D

Available domains as of this message:
MonkeyFan.com <- would work
MonkeyStart.com <- good
MissionMonkey.com <- nice theme
MonkeyElite.com <- elite club :P
MonkeyLeague.com
Monkeyly.com <- begin short as possible domains with monkey in it
Monkeyex.com
MonkeyZap.com
MonkeyYes.com
MonkeyAce.com
StormMonkey.com <- strong, interesting possible branding
MonkeyProgram.com <- if you want a dull name
MonkeyTechnology.com <- if you insist on marketing to coders

but maybe better ones...

MonkeyCreation.com <-really good
MonkeyEvolution.com <-fits with theme
MonkeyUnlimited.com <-strong

So there are options. Many more than I listed, and I could list more. Switching to a .com would be a smart move, along with having someone focus on the marketing.

Also, Mark, please still put Monkey on Steam. :P And if you do not want to tell us so I can stop talking about it. And if you really don't want it on Steam... then at least open up affiliate sales so people can have intrinsic motivation to do your marketing for you. 30% is fair - BMTMicro.com handles its affiliate program very well. If you have no interest in making more money please tell us that also. Maybe your mission to is lower the price of Monkey and live on as little cash as possible. I wouldn't try to convince you otherwise, but if you do want to make enough money to live well and have a few people on staff to help out - please consider Steam/affiliates/marketing guy hire!


Karja(Posted 2012) [#27]
I don't really get why so many people are pushing for Monkey on Steam. It seems like a very bad fit, to me. Monkey is an excellent language and extremely useful...if you're willing to tinker and learn stuff about the platform you're targeting. But it's not ready to use out of the box.

Things on Steam seem to me to be packaged well, easy to install and easy to start using. Steam is targeting a mass market, people who want things to "just work"; Monkey is targeting a specific subset of developers who want to have a lot of possibilities and don't mind getting their hands dirty.

Compare with Game Maker, for example. Game Maker limits the amount of platforms it can target, and is very limited in what it can accomplish. However, it tries to give the user the possibility to just jump in there and mess around. (I assume. I haven't used Game Maker :) )

With Monkey, you can use the HTML5 target after you've installed it but it depends on which browser you're using, and it uses a built in web server that's...well...lacking. As soon as you want to try different targets you have to install a lot of stuff, mess around with a config file, restart Monky, etc etc. It all works, but it's not a simple procedure.

So, in short: I really like Monkey and I'm happy with it. But I definitely don't think that it's packaged well enough to have any kind of mass market appeal. Even if it was accepted into Steam it'd receive a lot of "WTF is this" comments, IMO.

But affiliation might be a different thing!


Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2012) [#28]
I think your wrong and not giving gamers enough credit, so many gamers now code, mod and hack in their own game art, modding and game design or development has become so easily accessible to people that I would argue the steam crowd is way more equipped than your giving them credit.

Will there be users who wont like it, wont know what it is and wont buy it, of course there will, the same can be said for EVERY other product on steam, but your missing the clear and obvious bonus here.

Game Maker gets them into making stuff, when they hit that wall, and climb over it looking for more control, if steam had monkey then it would be that next logical step giving them the control they want.

This is off topic, tho, so is the name. but I guess this thread really does not have a real topic other than were all die hard fans of mark and monkey and just want the best for it, want it to succeed, and do better than it is, I guess if no one cared we would not be taking the time to suggest things, we would not be taking the time to ask for better marketing, or trying to push monkey into the visible range of more potential customers, its a credit to mark, and his work that we ARE!! doing that.

I only hope he takes notice.


Raz(Posted 2012) [#29]
I love how Marky's new target system is about to blow everyone's mind...

Oh that's not on, that's not on at all!


maltic(Posted 2012) [#30]
Thanks for making me never want to ask for help again! I'm glad you cured me of that foible.

Seriously though, Monkey is pretty good once you get it working.


Why0Why(Posted 2012) [#31]
@maltic

The forums are great and you still got the help you need.

We are a fun lot, don't be so thin skinned. Nobody will give you a hard time in the future if you ask nicely :)


maltic(Posted 2012) [#32]
Yeh I know. Don't worry, I was joking, hence the 'seriously though' :)


benmc(Posted 2012) [#33]
First, I'm a Monkey fan boy now myself. I've never enjoyed game development so much.

As for the name, I like Monkey. It's the "Monkey Wrench" of game development. 1 Tool, multiple uses (targets).

I'd say it needs a logo change rather than a name change.

Regarding Steam - I'm of the belief that putting Monkey on Steam is a bad fit. It would be like releasing PHP, Java, or MingW on Steam. Monkey and Mojo are really behind the scenes. Someone downloading Monkey from Steam would probably be unhappy when they go to open it for the first time, and all they have is TED, a blank canvas, and a LOT of Target configuring to do and a lot of SDK's to download, install and configure.

Tho I suppose it could be presented as such so there were no pre-conceived expectations.

@maltic Keep participating in the forums. I can certainly move on from one unhappy thread. I had to do a lot of work to get Monkey going on all targets too, but once I did.... HEAVEN. IMO, there needs to be a step-by-step for each Target in a doc somewhere... someday.

Kumbaya anyone?


dragon(Posted 2012) [#34]
At the moment i know only 2 converter that export a "meta code" to many different languages:

-Monkey
-Haxe

Haxe is more advanced and you can add "magic" target-language code direct into your code... you have also vector-graphics like flash...
But i must say that everything feel like ActionScript...
Mojo feel more like direct graphics without "ballast"
The code in monkey is more intuitive and easier and more "smooth"



A time ago i had a idea about a converter from language like monkey to C++
But monkey target system is more clever. If we had no Monkey and no Haxe, i would write my own Monkey today... But hey, for the price of monkey it make no sense to create something new...


Why0Why(Posted 2012) [#35]
The advantage of Steam, even if it wasn't accepted, would be more publicity via Greenlight.


benmc(Posted 2012) [#36]
Exposure won't help if Monkey doesn't tout its biggest selling points:

1) It builds locally.

My code is NOT going off to some 3rd party server, being built, then sent back to me. Sure this removes the target configuration headaches, but you put all your eggs in one company's basket. With Monkey, if this website were gone tomorrow, I could still make games.

2) The number of Targets is incredible.

HTML5, Flash, GLFW(PC&Mac), iOS, Android, PSM, XNA (Win Phone, XBox)

You just don't get this anywhere else, and I've successfully built for all these targets on devices with the exception of PSM.

==================================

It's key selling points are GREAT, but it's missing a very very very big selling point that Stencyl, Corona SDK, Game Salad, Game Maker, and many others all have:

** Built-in ad networks and IAP functionality. **

I still go back and check out these other guys because they have Ad Networks and IAP for multiple platforms built right in. I consider changing over just because I need this to work.

When you make a game, you want to know that you can make a buck, and Ads + IAP are critical to this in the mobile markets.

I think there are going to be a lot of people passing on Monkey because the bottom falls out when all your work can't pay off. And even if you are in this as a hobby, you cannot deny that most game developers dream of making money with their games so they can quit their day job and spend their life JUST making games because it pays the bills. It's the dream. Built in IAP and Ads would help :)


dragon(Posted 2012) [#37]

It's key selling points are GREAT, but it's missing a very very very big selling point that Stencyl, Corona SDK, Game Salad, Game Maker, and many others all have:

** Built-in ad networks and IAP functionality. **



this is a plus point,
but i searched for a multi-platform language or engine for modern devices...
i found corona etc... but not monkey
i found monkey only at blitzbasic-site (i know it from past)
so marketing is really underground

Mark said that he plan to rewrite build system, so we can easily add own Ads than before...


Beaker(Posted 2012) [#38]
Definitely loving monkey again at the moment (I've got some time and projects to use it! Yay!).

Really wish there were some nice & easy fully cross platform network related commands. It seems like a real gap in its armory at the moment.


AdamRedwoods(Posted 2012) [#39]
One thing I would do is allow people who test out the demo version to register and post in an inclusive subforum ("Demos Users" or "Pre-Purchase Questions" or something like that). This would help get their questions answered and start a direct conversation with potential customers.

I know people tend to post over at BB site for pre-purchasing Qs, but seems more relevant here and there's also the customers who don't own BB.


Zaxxan(Posted 2012) [#40]
I agree that monkey is a silly name, the name also makes it difficult to search for anything monkey related as Google tends to return results about zoos etc.


AdamRedwoods(Posted 2012) [#41]
the name also makes it difficult to search for anything monkey related as Google tends to return results about zoos etc.


I tell people it's called "monkey coder"


muddy_shoes(Posted 2012) [#42]

One thing I would do is allow people who test out the demo version to register and post in an inclusive subforum ("Demos Users" or "Pre-Purchase Questions" or something like that). This would help get their questions answered and start a direct conversation with potential customers.


I suggested this some time ago and it seems to be considered not the BRL way of things. Supposedly the need to get forum access will encourage demo users to buy the full product. I'm not convinced that a frustrated demo user's first response to having a problem and no way of asking for help on the official forums would be to throw money at the company causing them frustration but what do I know?


Kauffy(Posted 2012) [#43]
Monkey has tremendous promise, though I agree with what @Zaxxan said: Monkey is such a commonplace word, it makes it very difficult to do a satisfying search for info you want anywhere other than this forum.


wiebow(Posted 2012) [#44]
Finding Monkey information via Google is a chore. I include BRL in each search term, but rarely do I find what I need (outside of this forum, of course)


simonh(Posted 2012) [#45]
Searching for just 'Monkey' does return this site on the first page on Google, in the UK at least. Having a common word as a product name can be hindrance if you don't make the first page, but is helpful if you do...


MikeHart(Posted 2012) [#46]
Google also filters the search results for you depending on what you have searched before. Even if everyone searches for the same key word, the resuls will be different for most people.


Soap(Posted 2012) [#47]
Oh, wow - if I search for "monkey" on an incognito window it ranks 6 for me (but does not show up on any other search engine I've tested, maybe my results are tainted too even in incognito - Mark has Google Analytic results which would say how many people are coming from serps)... I guess the links to this site are paying off! Maybe soon it will be the number one result as more links build up online. Not as bad then, but the domain name is still a poor choice. It makes the battle harder and not easier, but could still be fixed (among other things), or never fixed and the struggle stays difficult.