SteamOS
Monkey Archive Forums/Monkey Discussion/SteamOS
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| Valve are currently announcing stuff this week (to so with steam box) -> http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/ Guess the next question will be, will monkey need its own target?! |
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| Looks interesting. Hope they succeed, but have strong doubts. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/09/valve-announces-linux-based-steamos-as-basis-for-living-room-gaming/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/09/analysis-can-steamos-drag-the-pc-game-industry-over-to-linux/ |
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| It's just Linux with optimizations and Steam pre-installed at its core. Any Linux applications already made will no doubt work on it. Extra functionality, such as using Steamworks, will only need extra code, but that can work as modules. They have been working to open all of that up. At the moment, if you pay the Greenlight fee you can get access to Steamworks SDK immediately. |
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| Yeah when are they going to learn... Linux is never , ever, in the history of mankind ever.......... <deep breath> going to even come close to being a central desktop OS, what's linux at now, 3% of the market or was last time I recall checking.. What some smart guy needs to do is reverse engineer windows, and then write a windows compatible OS, something that can actually replace windows while allowing full access to all of windows applications and tools. I know this is an entertainment OS meant for the living room and not central desktop use but you know there will be some crazy people out their that either try and use at such or try and turn it into it. |
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| I think this is going to be a big success, they can sell the hardware at cost or even at a loss cus you'll tied into the Steam ecosystem. And with millions logging onto steam each day I cannot see this losing? |
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| Attitudes can quickly change, especially if the uninitiated are unaware of what's actually going on underneath. I've always hated Java. Me and Java just DO NOT get along. And it's not just me. Java hate is widespread. But give those haters an Android device, and they'll be happy enough. If "SteamBox" and "SteamOS" succeed at all, it'll be because they're "SteamBox" and "SteamOS" not "Fancy Linux", just like some people think of Ubuntu as just Ubuntu, not Linux at all. |
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| what they really need to do is make sure they have a bullet proof windows emulation working thats fast enough, otherwise there will ultimately be millions of games that simply wont work. I wish they didnt waste their time with linux I wish they had started from scratch and written a totally new OS from the ground up, at least that way they could learn from the past 20 years and do something amazing. |
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| I wonder if Samsung have called for a license. How does one work out the number of logged in users on steam these days? |
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| >How does one work out the number of logged in users on steam these days? There's a graph on the front page. The major question mark for me is how many games are or can be easily made compatible. It sounds like Valve have put effort into creating support and have been reaching out to other AAA devs to get commitment to SteamOS versions of upcoming titles. I wonder if they might be up for putting resources into improving WINE compatibility for the back-catalogue. The secondary question is what the reality of their claimed performance boost is. If they can demonstrate a 10% FPS boost or significantly improved latency that could well be enough to persuade many gamers that dual-booting SteamOS is worthwhile. Those are just about SteamOS as a desktop gaming OS though. SteamBox is a slightly different thing. I can imagine a low-mid range hardware box that hits the Ouya/Shield market for people who already are PC gamers doing okay. Being able to play less demanding titles and stream your existing collection to the TV has value. I'm less convinced of the ability to sell a SteamBox that is specced to challenge the PS4/XBoxOne. |
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| >I wish they didnt waste their time with linux I wish they had started from scratch and written a totally new OS from the ground up, at least that way they could learn from the past 20 years and do something amazing. Which one of these sounds like a bigger waste of time? They can re-do the parts that don't work for them and keep the parts that do. The nice part about using Linux under the hood is that most of the work of keeping the lights on is done for you, freeing up resources to work on things that are more visible to the end-user. If I remember correctly there already was a 10% boost from their initial tests with L4D2 on Linux from the stack being more direct, and that doesn't even count all of the stupid crap they have to deal with on X. What SteamOS may be doing is what Android does, and skipping all of that crap by drawing directly to framebuffer with their own graphics drivers. This would mean another boost in graphics that would put it on par with dedicated console OS's. |
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| Taiphoz i think you are confusing windows popularity with windows efficency. Windows is the most used OS not because is a better product, but because it was the only thing available during the Pc boom era. If linux (or anything else for that matter) would have been available to the masses during the same time, and advertised as much as windows, things would have been different. Look at what happened to the amiga and relative os....better product but no market penetration due to lack of vision from commodore. Getting rid of windows now it will be impossible in the short term...can you imagine all those companies that have to re-train all of their thousands of employee only to send an e-mail?Where i work the average Joe don't even know how to send e-mails with attachments...imagine the amount of wasted time spent to train them to use a new os! Thats why writing a new os like you suggested would not only be a financial disaster, but a complete waste of time. Linux does what it does fairly well. If they manage to have a vast catalog of games, and they market and sustain their product decently enough, i can't see why it won't work. At the end it will be like having another console. |
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| (somehow i feel like i opened a can of worms...) |
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| What some smart guy needs to do is reverse engineer windows, and then write a windows compatible OS, something that can actually replace windows while allowing full access to all of windows applications and tools. Do you mean something like this? ReactOS The problem with that OS is there is no funding, and development is slow. The issue with Linux becoming a mainstream Desktop OS is there are TOO MANY VARIANTS and everyone has their own ideas for making the desktop. Its freely able to go whichever direction anyone wants it to. That alone will keep it a Hobby OS. Until Linux has a single defined path for doing things on it (which will never happen), then it can compete with Apple and Microsoft. On the mobile side, LINUX BASED ANDROID rules the roost. Its one of two standards and Microsoft finds themselves way out in left field. They have a lot of ground to catchup in order to compete against the two 'nix based OSes. In the meantime, I love Linux and messing with it, but MacOS X will remain my personal and Windows as my work OS (because thats what work decided it would be, I'd use MacOS X if it were my choice) Back on topic: I think that Valve making their own Steam OS is very cool. I wish them the best of luck with it and I hope it sticks around. There is a very good thing that can come out of them making it: If its free and its Linux, they can easily distribute it out without any reprimand from Apple or Microsoft... or reliance upon their OSes. Who knows... if its made well enough it could even be a better console platform? Only time will tell. I'm looking forward to messing around with it anyways :) |
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| I think it is pretty hypocritical of old Gabe to complain about Windows 8 so much(because it has a competing store to his) and then put out an OS that is tightly integrated with his store. I guess it is OK if he is getting the 30% ;) I think this is the best chance for a linux based OS to get some traction. The fact is the average gamer will run whatever runs his games the best if he can do everything else he wants. Being in IT I would be willing to throw a decent box together and try it out on my entertainment center. I am working on building a theater in my basement with 110 inch screen and 7.1 surround. It could be really fun to hook up the PC and play on it. I have been talking to a couple of other users here about wrapping Steam integration for Monkey. What is the current state of linux targeting with Monkey? Could be interesting to be one of the earlier games available on the platform. |
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| I just hope that the main advantages of SteamOS will be related to their choice of packages and making it "just work" for a single-purpose without actually killing off Steam's compatibility with Linux. If it's a platform that is freely licenseable and can be adopted upstream by adequately liberal distros then the benefits will eventually trickle back to Linux. Otherwise I would hope that it becomes more like Android where there is a thriving set-top-box industry built around it due to its openness, but I just don't know if either situation is realistic because it remains yet to be seen if they can get that perfect mix of utility and convenience. At one extreme is Linux (pure utility, extremely inconvenient to use) and at the other end is a set top box (pure convenience, almost no utility outside of its core functionality).. |
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| I don't see why PC gamers would go for a console. I imagine they are mostly the type of gamers that make use of the keyboard for the games they play. I still prefer the PC experience of games and can't remember the last time I played one of my sons console games. Or maybe it's just my age! |
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| Until I got the feel of the console controllers for the 360, I was a PC gamer too. Nothing could beat the mouse/keyboard combo... even still today I like that combo better in most cases, but there are certain things a straight keyboard and mouse combo can't cover - like the analog controls. You'd need special programming to get a mouse to handle like that, or you'd need a gamepad with analog sticks to be able to do things that require refined adjustments to your movements easily - like a a gas peddle on a race game,; the harder you press it, the faster it goes. Then there's force-feedback (which is just for gaming experience). I used to be a hard-core PC gamer. |
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| I don't understand why the SteamOS is suppose to be great. It doesn't seem like an OS, but maybe more of a gaming platform. It's not going to displace Sony or XBox, and it seems it's audience is gamers, but who is going to make the games for yet another OS? AndroidOS/iOS has the bigger developer circle so.... Maybe they are gunning for the XBox 2nd place console..... but it's an OS? Why not just a SteamBox? I'm confused. i'll need to see Valve's long-term objectives. |
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| Adam: It is probably a diversification play from the original SteamBox idea. Who freaking cares about another set top console? But another software platform.... well, to me, it's just like Steam itself, when Valve decided to make it a content distribution platform. The same sorts of criticisms, too. "They're not going to displace the competition, it's just another DRM scheme, it's too wide a net". What they're doing here is making an OS platform as a template for what goes inside a million different set-top boxes. The same way Android was intended to do with smartphones, but more appropriately tailored to its niche. It has the potential to be as big as Steam itself when it became what it is today. The content of Steam games and the Steam community, as well, seems like it's set to adapt to this. Valve seems to want to make it a community hub that you can get general entertainment out of from your sofa, and still be able to play games that mostly would otherwise only be on PC due to the relatively restrictive models the big 3 have towards developers, even today. Valve has a history of exploiting underdeveloped niches like this (particularly, Steam itself has made millions for countless developers/contributors thanks to its platform and community features), so that combined with taking a page from Google's playbook, it seems like it's a pretty solid move. They have much more to gain than to lose; someone else is eventually going to make the "perfect" steam box for them. (That someone will probably start off being the end-user themselves, until a suitable partner or hardware standard surfaces) |
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| If they've already developed SteamOS for the purpose of enabling the SteamBox concept then releasing it as a standalone OS for self-builders seems a kind of "why not?" deal. With the Linux foundation the support load is spread around and they get to extend the user-base and benefit from the enthusiast crowd input. Even at the casual end a standalone OS will allow curious gamers to repurpose their old machines as SteamBoxen just to try it out. People who might not be motivated enough to get a MythTV PC up and running may well be willing to spend an hour installing SteamOS. It all adds extra toes to the foot in the door to creating the alternative platform that Valve seem to be aiming for. |
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| Remember Chrome and GoogleTV? They didn't really go anywhere, because no hardware was willing to keep up with the tweaks and support to get the system working well. Also, they didn't listen to consumers. This is where the Ouya is succeeding. It's the only product I've seen that offers continual support and fixes its interface and firmware to address user issues. If SteamOS is to succeed, they'll need to follow Ouya's lead. |
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| Don't know all the details, but I assume steamos will be pretty much a 'normal' linux distro, only targeted at gamers. Which sounds completely awesome to me and, if correct, will probably mean steamos becomes 'the' linux target for Monkey (Ubuntu 'sort of' is right now). Actually, I see it as sort of a 'gamers Ubuntu' in a way... Android's fork of linux is, as far as I know, pretty minimal, and not much use for anything beyond simple devices. I've certainly never seen any 'desktop' forks of Android, although they're probably out there somewhere. But steamos should be usable on a very wide range of HW, anything from a ouya scale minimal console to a high-end desktop machine. There's also the sticky question of where steam itself fits into things. If it's the ONLY way to access software then I'm not really interested, but I can't see that being the case for steamos in general. Perhaps for some flavor of steambox though. Having a 'real' (and OMG open!) OS inside a grunty console sounds just a bit too good to be true to me, so I suspect it isn't, but interesting times ahead none the less. Even if all the general gamedev community gets out of it is a 'gamers distro', that's still a good thing IMO. |
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| The controller's design has been revealed. Wow! By the way, Steam supports selling apps. Why isn't Monkey being sold there again? ;) I mean, Game Maker is, and Monkey's way better IMHO... |
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| http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/09/valve-unveils-touchpadtouchscreen-enabled-steam-controller-for-living-room/ Touch screen on the controller? Wii U anyone? FFS, battery-draining and cost issues aside, does no one else see the impracticality of a touch screen on a controller? |
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| the biggest problems are really refresh rate and polling. The touchscreen might not pan out, or it might end up being not used for the most part at all. low-resolution displays are actually not that expensive, and properly designed screens can last a while on a battery charge, although it reminds me of the old VMU which practically no one used. The touchpad sensors on either side are what interest me the most. Haptic feedback has so far not solved the problem of needing to see what you're doing on the touchpad at all times. Valve appears to be trying to address this with high-resolution polling and localizing the feedback so you feel more "bumps" as your finger slides around on the pad. To further help localize the feedback, they've added circular nubs on the pad itself, which is a subtle but important thing. Your fingers will learn how to "calibrate" themselves because their guide is built right into the plastic. I want to try it before dismissing it. And feel how those rear buttons work. I really want some "real" buttons, just in case, that are easy to reach, if the touchpads don't end up being the be-all, end-all. |
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| Interesting way the controller works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAjkbNq4xI I like it. |
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