Watch People Making Games.

Monkey Archive Forums/Monkey Discussion/Watch People Making Games.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#1]
I was wondering if there are any Monkey coder's out there who Stream their work via Twitch or some other streaming website, if so I would really enjoy a link.

Not sure if any of you have tried it, but your able to find an ever growing number of developers who stream their work on Twitch, I find it very insightful and fun to watch how they tackle things.

So if you know of any Monkey developers with a Streaming Channel for their work, please link it, and if you know of any other developers from other languages or engines, please link those as well.

I will try and maintain a list, if there are enough links provided.

Xaron(Posted 2013) [#2]
Well how's that working? I clicked on one or two but it shows "offline". Is that something like a webcam or so?

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#3]
You never heard of twitch ?, its a web service that now dominates the live streaming market, millions of gamers stream their gameplay, thousands of artists stream themselves drawing their art, and programmers, in fact you could probably find a stream for just about anything either on twitch or some other site like it. its kinda like youtube, but LIVE.

When the Streams are not active, ie, the owner is not online streaming they normally have a back catalog of previous videos.

for example... Aubrey (USA) streams his art all the time, so has tons of videos. which you can see here when hes not online,

It's not a brilliant list, I hope other people here on the forums will help fill the list out a bit so we can add more.

GfK(Posted 2013) [#4]
If you want to see what I look like "working", just visit facebook or twitter, and take a screenshot. My monitor pretty much looks like that.

muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#5]
I occasionally watch streams from devs who announce them on twitter. A couple that come to mind: is the artist doing Under the Ocean. His concept art streams are really good and he interacts with the chat more than most. have been livestreaming dev on Prison Architect if you enjoy looking at C++ coding.

Unfortunately my laptop is getting very creaky and the CPU load of the Twitch flash player can be a bit of a burden for it. Also my bandwidth out here in the NZ sticks isn't great so I often can't just casually have a stream running in the background like many can. I doubt I'd be able to upload a stream that is watchable at all.

Goodlookinguy(Posted 2013) [#6]
I stream me using Monkey every so often, depending on the situation. If I'm doing the really boring stuff I usually don't stream. When I'm doing the Ludum Dare, I always stream all of it. Link Here.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#7]
Cool, yeah I have started now as well, going to make a little game just for the stream, see how I get on, not sure if I personally have the will power to keep it up but we will see.

rIKmAN(Posted 2013) [#8]
I watched Goodlookingguy last night for about 10mins, and no offence it was pretty boring...literally just scratched his head and wrote a few comments lol!

He looks the spitting image of my brother-in-law.

garyk1968(Posted 2013) [#9]
Yep never heard of twitch either, couldn't see any way to play the videos so just hopped off.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#10]
Twitch is huge, if you goto the main site it lists just about every game under the sun, and if for example your thinking about getting a new game, you can watch countless people playing it live, no crappy spoon fed or paid for PR from some mag, you get the live and raw thoughts of the person playing the game.

I'v used it countless times to work out if I really want to spend money on something, you should try it.

@gary, yeah they are changing their theme and stuff and in my opinion while some aspects of the site have gotten better they have made it a little harder for people to see previous broadcasts, its on the right side of a channel window, in a tab called video if I recall correctly, it defaults to the chat tab, I think they are doing that on purpose to separate themselves from being to like youtube.

Another cool feature is the follow button, if you click it your mailed or alerted when some one goes live, I follow Aubrey among other's he's an Artist for Wolfire games and the guys amazing, i'v learnt a lot of cool little professional artist tricks and shortcuts just watching him.

Watching people work, code, draw or make indie music for games for sure is not for everyone, but it's deff worth at least a glance if you have never done it. specially if its a subject you enjoy and you have a spare 5 minutes out of your day.

AdamRedwoods(Posted 2013) [#11]
this is interesting.

but what is the difference between this and a tutorial on YouTube? isn't this the same thing?

i've been thinking of making a miniB3D video tutorial, what would be better? twitch or youtube?

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#12]
Both, if you record it all live using Twitch, people can tune in and watch you live, chat with you ask you questions and give suggestions as you work, once your done twitch can then be linked to your youtube account and within twitch you can click a button that sends your full video to youtube.

When I streamed myself last night fleshing out an idea and drawing some art, my brother was unable to watch it via his ipad, so when I went looking for a way to move the video to youtube I discovered twitch had already thought of it and has these built in features for it.

So yeah. use both., I sent my over an hour long video to youtube from twitch and it worked without a hitch. which was very cool.

Xaron(Posted 2013) [#13]
That looks quite interesting, but... I guess it can become quite boring to watch someone programming. I mean, you Taiphoz (oh well, I've never though you look like this! lol) do some nice graphics stuff which can be enjoying!

Goodlookinguy(Posted 2013) [#14]

Not offensive taken at all. I hadn't streamed for a while and just wanted to have a video up. All I did was fix some stuff for 40 minutes then stopped. So it really wasn't all that entertaining. It gets entertaining as soon as my brother and I are together. That's usually only during the Ludum Dare though.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#15]
What Bald ? lol Old ?? Handsome??? haha.. yeah you build up a mental image of some one and then it never really matches up with real life, I talk to a lot of people over voice chat and it happens to me all the time, when I finally video conf call over Google+ their faces never seem to match the voice.

As for it being boring, I think if your watching a good , interesting and active stream, it's no more or less boring that watching the TV, a good streamer is not only aware of, but interacts with the people watching, and that adds something you don't get from youtube.

I was watching some one make a game in Java not that long ago, and while im not java guru I saw him make a mistake, he got stuck on it for about 5 minutes before I plucked up the courage to point it out on his chat window and he instantly fixed it, thanked me, and used my name as a variable in his code lol, so its not all boring, just sitting watching some one type, it can be very interactive.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#16]
I wonder if Mark would be up for streaming himself work on monkey, just think how insightful that would be.

rIKmAN(Posted 2013) [#17]
Your comment of "' This is cause for concern..." after a couple of mins of head scratching got a laugh :)

Just had a skip through your stick runner issue 1 video, nice work! :)

Are you using a tablet?
What software are you using?

Please get a decent playlist lol!

Redbeer(Posted 2013) [#18]
I was going to stream some Monkey coding a few weeks back for Molydeux but ended up not being able to participate because I was house sitting for some friends and the internet setup wasn't able to accommodate it, and the dog in the house was slightly louder and more time consuming than I had hoped he would be.

I'll probably try to do one of these challenges like Ludum Dare in the near future, but I'm currently making some coding videos for my classes next year. There's also 7DFPS coming up, but Monkey isn't necessarily the best choice to code an FPS with in it's current form. Possible, but not the simplest.

In the end, watching people code is boring, but personality/interacting with viewers, and coding things that already have some nice graphical feedback seem to spice it up. I'd probably consider doing all the systemic stuff offline, and coding cool features in the stream.

AdamRedwoods(Posted 2013) [#19]
but Monkey isn't necessarily the best choice to code an FPS with in it's current form. Possible, but not the simplest.

there's a raycaster in bananas/skn3/monkenstein
also, minib3d is no unity, but it's working!

Redbeer(Posted 2013) [#20]
Adam, I'm with you.

a) There is a part of me that wants to do a project this way. As much as there is a part of me that wants to write a retro game in assembly language like this guy:, simply because I have the nostalgic tendency to want to relive things I did in a much smaller scale in my teens, but with the knowledge I have now.
b) I do love Monkey.

However, for a game jam where I have 7 days to try to throw together a complex project that I'd prefer didn't turn out embarrassingly simple or end up unfinished, the engineer in me says, "right tool for the right job". So I'm thinking anything that pushes me to the game design portion, rather than get graphics on screen and make things work, as quickly as possible, is the right tool.
That leaves Unity, Leadwerks 3, Panda3D, or Blender's in built engine. :D

Honestly I'd probably slap something together in Blender with Python and logic bricks for a game jam revolving around an FPS, as I'd be using that for models, textures, and animation anyway, and I have a simple FPS camera and some decent rigs already made that I could reuse to save a lot of time.
It also gets me 3 platforms to release on (Win, Mac, Linux), with basically zero fiddling to make it work.

However, I am excited about 3D in Monkey for the future. A year from now I may be singing a different tune.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#21]
only thing I could agree with there is that for a game jam, trying something in 3D with monkey might not be the best option, but that's changing as we speak, mini3D , Marks latest post, 3D is coming..

As for 2D, I have to strongly disagree.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#22]
God I just streamed for 8 and a half hours, it felt like 2 at the most, I totally lose all concept of time when I'm working away on something. thats kinda scary.

rIKmAN(Posted 2013) [#23]

Just had a skip through your stick runner issue 1 video, nice work! :)

Are you using a tablet?
What software are you using?

Scratch the tablet question, just seen the new camera angle in issue 2.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#24]
Yeah, it's a Silvercrest, it's got a bigger work area than my little black Trust tablet, but TBH the trust tablets pen feels more like a real pencil than the Silver, which is a little annoying, its to smooth I think.

Best part of it tho is that I got it for 50p lol, have some family that works for , erm I think its lidle or one of those little super markets, and they had them for so long they threw them on sale, with his staff discount it only cost him 59p :)

hmm I guess I cant really complain that it feels to smooth lol.

rIKmAN(Posted 2013) [#25]
My god man - I'm not a policeman you can answer safely lol!

What software are you using?

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#26]
I'm not kidding lol they never sold a single unit, and I guess they couldnt return them so they sold them off at a stupid price :)

As for software I'm using a really old version of Macromedia Fireworks, I guess its probably called CS something or other now tho, got it when at UNI and kinda stuck with it.

It's lacking some tablet features like pen pressure which is a bit of a bummer, but it does the job.

I'v got Gimp as well, but there is something about Gimp that I just don't like and just cant put my finger on what it is, so I only use Gimp when I really need that fine pen control.

muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#27]
Would anyone be interested in doing a Google Hangout once a week or something? I just tried it with another dev and it seems to work well for casual group meetups. You can easily share windows to demo your WIP or show code etc.

Why0Why(Posted 2013) [#28]
I am using Fireworks for almost anything game related these days. It really does a great job.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#29]
Muddy count me in , Paul G in the monkey group on google plus add me any time.

muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#30]
I'm trying to figure out how to set up a permanent community hangout where people can drop in as they wish. It's supposedly possible but a lot of information on the G+ interface is out of date. Apologies if I accidentally spam anyone with invites.

Edit: Okay, I think I did it. It's under Events in the community menu. Starts now and has no end date, so presumably people can go and click on the hangout link any time.

muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#31]
I'll probably be around in the hangout for most of today if anyone wants to drop by and see how it works. Can't promise to be entertaining!

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#32]
If my PC is on, I am probably sitting at it, so if you see my status as online on G+ then i'm probably available for a hangout.

That being said I might be streaming tomorrow, will all depend if my new phone comes or not, either way I will still be up for a hangout.

muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#33]
Okay, that hangout didn't persist, so experiments on getting a permanent hangout continue. Here's a link to one that, in theory, should be valid until 2020. Hopefully someone else will click on it at some point to see if it works.

This method also has the advantage of not generating invites and so also not generating peeved responses to me.

By the way, if you're camera or mic shy, you can just use the text chat like IRC. I just imagine it as an IRC chat with the ability to screencast really.

AdamRedwoods(Posted 2013) [#34]
cool, just got done chatting with MuddyShoes and the hangout is pretty neat, lots of options. you don't have to chat vocally, you can just type. VERY responsive, seemed better than satellite.

you can also limit anything on-screen. easy to just show certain apps. i had blender displaying.

i think a designated time for EVERYONE to join each month would be a fun "town hall" event.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#35]
Yeah I used to use it a lot, not much recently so no problems from me, I will be in there most days of the week, always up for a chat.

skid(Posted 2013) [#36]
Paul, I am in awe of your stuff, Thanks for sharing.

And I am screen casting this edit. Hi Erik!

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#37]
The community has a ton of really talented developers, I was going to say programmers but we have some stunning artists and musicians as well.

It's a good community to be a part of :)

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#38]
adding to the list, he's making some 7DFPS game.

rIKmAN(Posted 2013) [#39]
Every time I have a gander at the Google Groups thing it's empty, but I've not tried this.

We should try and organise something so it's not just pot luck.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#40]
Having a regular time for the google hangout might be a nice idea, I think what people are doing is poping in seeing no one there and then leaving, I just joined and sat in there a few days ago and over the course of an hour or two a load of people popped in and then left.

only reason iv not been in over the past few days is that iv had family and kids around more than normal.

rIKmAN(Posted 2013) [#41]
Yeah that's what I did - went in, waited for 5mins then left as I was the only one there.

Maybe see (a) Who/how many people are interested and (b) a time that most people could make / be happy with and then set it up as a regular thing daily/weekly/monthly or whatever.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#42]
I think a set weekly meet/hangout would be really cool, mark was in there the first time I joined, if have it at a set time each week it might be something he can plan for and make time to pop into.

muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#43]
There aren't enough people in the Monkey community for the hangout to be constantly populated. You're not going to have a lot of luck jumping in for a few minutes and leaving if no-one else turns up either. I'm usually there for a few hours throughout the day. Being on NZ time means that I rarely cross paths with anyone.

I'm up for fixed timeslots but it's usually pretty difficult to get agreement across timezones and lifestyles. I'd suggest just declaring you'll be in the hangout at some time and what purpose (if any) you have and just see who turns up.

AdamRedwoods(Posted 2013) [#44]
I suggest one day. How about Friday?
This way people can pop in/out and have a better chance than any day.

muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#45]
Heh. I'm getting deja vu from an argument on /r/gamedev about when the Screenshot Saturday thread gets posted. The suggestion was made that it shouldn't happen until "proper Saturday" which turned out to mean when the US woke up on Saturday morning. In other words at around the point when NZ headed into Sunday.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#46]
I think the best fit, in terms of time, would be this.

That's Eu,US,Az
Friday, August 16, 2013
Edinburgh: Fri 12:00 Noon
New York : Fri 7:00 AM
Brisbane : Fri 9:00 PM

that would give each major time zone a window of a few hours where the most people could be online, the time kinda sucks for Az but they are like 12 hours out from everyone else on the planet lol.

So noon for Europe, an early start for the US, and a slightly late night for Auz, I selected the Eu as the initial time zone because I suspect that it has the most users, and we want as many people as possible to have a chance to turn up..

Raph(Posted 2013) [#47]
It's actually maybe too early for most of the US. I am in California, that would be 4am. :)

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#48]
lol your fault for living in a country thats got like what ? 3 extra time zones?

muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#49]
To be honest I've been through this sort of thing a number of times and it's really impossible to pick a shared time. Not only are we spread across the planet but even in close time-zones you have night-owls versus early-risers, people who have weekend commitments versus people who have week evening commitments and any number of other "meat-space" concerns beyond just when the sun rises.

For example, your suggested time of 9pm in Brisbane is 11pm here. At 11pm on a Friday I'm probably a bottle of Merlot past being much use in a dev chat. :)

It's Friday already, by the way. I'll be around in the hangout (although up and down from the keyboard) for most of the day.

Goodlookinguy(Posted 2013) [#50]
It's actually maybe too early for most of the US. I am in California, that would be 4am. :)

I'm also in California, although I'm a night-owl, so 4am is wonderful.

On an original topic note, I've been streaming (and still am streaming) for the past 3 days or so because of the Ludum Dare. My team was a tad overly ambitious for a type of game we've never even close to attempted before. Then to make it worse, I've been recovering from being sick the whole time. Oh well.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#51]
Link to your stream so I can add it and watch ?

Goodlookinguy(Posted 2013) [#52]
It's already above. You put it up a number of days ago. Also, it's in my sig just in case.

rIKmAN(Posted 2013) [#53]
So this has been a bit of a failure, every time I have tried the hangout there has been nobody there.

Is anyone up for getting the Monkey IRC channel back up?
Even just adding a few devs on Skype to bounce ideas/question off each other would be cool.

computercoder(Posted 2013) [#54]
I'm up for it :) Either way is fine for me.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#55]
I think the only difference between IRC and the Hangout is that people just idle , they may be visible but their still not actually there.

I confess I'v not been in the hang out for a little while , been busy and a little sick at the same time, currently suffering a bad case of Man Flu lol.

I really hate Skype, I don't see why these new generation of IM tools have to fill up so much of your screen, I remember the heady days of ICQ with its tiny window and streamlined member list's.

I would be willing to install skype but if I can avoid it I will, I find it funny that tool that's essentially hacking its way past peoples firewalls and router rules is so universally adopted, anyone who's tried to block it from a network will know what I am talking about.


since what were really after here, is direct communication between like minded developers , there are probably other options which will do the job, MSN, ICQ(is it even still around ?),Google Talk ?,Skype

lots of options, what we need is a solution that most people here are happy to use.

computercoder(Posted 2013) [#56]
I tried twitch, but fail to like just watching someone do their thing... I really don't want or need to watch someone bust out code. I've been coding for 20 years. I would rather be able to chat out about ideas, functionality, new things that come about in technology. Doing that live with some like-minded people would really generate some positive outcome.

I have pretty much all of the freebie accounts out there as some of my buddies demand which ever one to communicate with them. As for the interface, I snuck around the Skype type overcoming of my screen by just whipping out my tablet and logging in on it and using my computer to code. Keeps it clean. :) But I understand that not everyone has that ability or luxury, so I am flexible with the interface at which is used.

I'm thinking that we should use something like IRC so that there is a channel for everyone to login and use it without having to share their email, or personal information just to chat. Many people would rather not do that and it may prevent them from joining in.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#57]
AfterNET.Org #monkey is the channel I tend to sit in although it's normally just me lol.

There is that Blitzed irc network but I had bad experience with the people there, so probably wont use it, and afternet has or had last time I checked a very active ludum dare channel so plenty of devs to chat with even though most of them don't have a clue about monkey.

Still think Google+/Hangout or some form of IM tool might be a better bet than irc, with IRC just like the Hangout it requires you to be online and in the channel all the time or people join think its empty and then leave.

With an IM tool we simply need to exhange details, setup a group and then send IM's when we wana have a chat.

rIKmAN(Posted 2013) [#58]
I'm happy with either, although irc would lead to more of a group chat as Skype is more 1 on 1 chats.

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#59]
Although I dont like it, skype does do group chats and it also has video calling options so it's essentially google hang out but with a client and not web based with the added option of being able to IM people.

GUH!, I can tell I'm gona have to install it again.

Talking about IRC, I wonder if Simon/BRL would be willing to add an IRC link possibly to a QIRC web app that joins a monkey channel, something like that linked directly from the main site would garner far more attention and I think would be far better on the whole.

muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#60]
"people join think its empty and then leave"

I think this, combined with Monkey's small community, is the problem. People don't get the concept of idling. They turn up in something like the hangout or IRC and expect other people to be waiting there to engage with but don't follow the logic to thinking that maybe they should just leave it open so they are there if someone else pops by.

I'd suggest that if you're up for a chat then maybe flag here that you're going to the hangout or IRC or whatever. Just going to a shared space in the hope that someone else might coincidentally be there probably isn't going to be too successful in a community with maybe a few dozen active members.

rIKmAN(Posted 2013) [#61]
I've "hungout in the hangout" for a few hours at a time and nobody has popped by, but I think you are spot on with it being the lack of people who are interested.

computercoder(Posted 2013) [#62]
I installed XChat and setup on AfterNet.Org #monkey. I'll sit in there and check off and on throughout the day. I'm generally online all day and night with the exception of a few hours. Gotta sleep sometime :)

Hope to see more people in there!

EDIT: I installed it on my tablet too so I can be able to chat more places. Primarily while not at the home computer :)

Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#63]
Well if you see me in the irc channel just say my name it should Highlight alert me. otherwise my window will spend most of the time minimized.