What do you think? (game editors and languages)

Monkey Archive Forums/Digital Discussion/What do you think? (game editors and languages)

mteo77(Posted 2013) [#1]
Hello all.
After a while of being off the pc for work reasons (stupidly long hours and such) i decided to go back to my hobby.
While deciding what kind of game i would like to "try" to make i came across some ideas that i think will put the basis of a smashing game.
So i had another idea; to speed up development why not try other game creating tools?
Sure i like monkey and it's syntax, but if i can find something else that will help me quickly putting my ideas on screen, why not?
And , of course, after quite a few days of trying i am not happy with any of them...
First that i tried: Construct 2.
Very quick to slap something on screen but terribly basic, it felt a tool for 5 years old (and probably is).
Second i tried: GameMaker.
Less intuitive but i can clearly see there's more potential, but after playing with it for nearly an entire day i realised i was typing more code than using it's interface...and the code isn't anywhere near monkey capabilities.
Third one i tried..Unity.
I stopped right after installing it because i felt "Oh god...steep learning curve here!"

Meanwhile i wrote something like 55 A4 pages of game design ideas, covering pretty much everything (one section even for in game purchases...).

So now i am kind of stuck, can't decide.
I feel i could do everything i need in monkey and enjoying it (i love it's syntax and code etc etc) but i also feel it will take a lot longer than gamemaker (for example) if i can get past it's code...
Funnily enough the game i have in mind isn't anything particularly difficult (it even have a very basic enemy AI...more basic than a simple space invaders clone!) so maybe i could just give GM a go..
What do you guys think?
The dilemma is purely "economic", because i am pretty sure the game will sell, and i don't really want someone to come out with the same idea in meantime!
I don't think i even want to learn unity, it feels overkill..
I wish monkey had a sort of editor (like those mapeditors during the blitz3d era..some of them were very good).
(hope all this rambling make sense!)


RENGAC(Posted 2013) [#2]
Stencyl is also a good option for me...


computercoder(Posted 2013) [#3]
You CAN use TILED for map design and drawing the levels for your game. Diddy is an elaborate framework that has most everything you need to get your game up and running in no time and readily reads TiLED TMX formatted files. There is also PhantomEngine Framework for the free game frameworks on Monkey. If you don't mind spending some money, Ignition will provide a similar experience to Diddy, but it includes its own tile map editor and map engine format.

I have been able to produce some basic games quickly using these frameworks. I'm relatively new to Monkey at that. I've not used Game Maker, so I can't vouch at all for it. Unity does have a steep learning curve, but has the ability to produce some very nice high quality games.


garyk1968(Posted 2013) [#4]
I think you shouldn't spend too much time on tools.

I only say that as I've spent tons of time over the last year doing just that. Bottom line is you spend so much time looking at them you don't get anything done!

I started doing app development (iOS) 3 years having been a long time developer (business apps for day job) using basic, clipper, foxpro and delphi for 20 years. I wanted to write a game for iOS and I wanted something simple so found GameSalad. Very similar to Stencyl but the performance was lacking.

I then found Cocos2D for iphone. I built one game with that, a simple stack-up type game and put this on the app store. Then I got interested in cross platform and discovered Corona SDK which allows you to target iOS and Android. Only problem is its 'build in the cloud' but I did release another game with this.

After this I was searching for a truly cross platform tool so looked at Javascript game frameworks and settled for ImpactJS which isn't free but seemed the best out of the frameworks there. The plan was to develop something using this and package using CocoonJS for mobile.

I then discovered Monkey and have been playing with it for a couple of months. It really is the only true web/mobile multi-platform tool around and is reasonably easy to use.

So find 1 thing and stick with it! As is often said, the best development tool is the one you are using.

Gary


AdamRedwoods(Posted 2013) [#5]
Monkey has a DAME importer:
https://github.com/iamyellow/DAME_monkey_exporter
http://monkeycoder.co.nz/Community/posts.php?topic=4948#54283
http://dambots.com/dame-editor/


dragon(Posted 2013) [#6]
here are 2 meta languages today
haxe and monkey.

haxe is more flash like, monkey is more opengl-like.
i like monkey syntax
i designed a time ago my own language
and monkey is nearly the same, but more easy.


game maker ... i think,
if you have a special unique game,
it is hard to create with game maker.

with a language, you have more freedom.
with game maker, you can have limitations.


Neuro(Posted 2013) [#7]
It kinda depends on what type of gaming you're trying to make. While i'm not too particular to using one or the other (obvioulsy we're all going to be biased towards monkey here) but I wouldn't put too much emphasis on tools based how simple it is. Personally, i would prefer it to be as simple as livid possible if it can let me build the kind of game i want it to make. Of course i can make a list of pros and cons of each one based on my experiences but just like some one else sorta mention earlier, learn a tool, learn it well, and stick with it. People have done amazing stuff with each tools/engines/languages mentioned already in this thread.

For example, this fella here is an artist but by using "drag and drop" editors like Construct 2 (actually he using the older Construct Engine) and MMF2, he's able to put together some fancy stuff in a shorter amount of time than most coders would :
http://www.konjak.org/

And this hilarious Australian guy (this dude is fun to talk with) strictly uses MMF2 (Multimedia Fusion 2) for all his work and pulls off some amazing stuff :
http://www.farmergnome.com/

And i could on with others...but thats just my 2.5 cents...


Gerry Quinn(Posted 2013) [#8]
What have you coded in before? Maybe what you want is a tool that, even if it is new, best leverages the skills you have.

[And to add to Neuro's post, I see Black Annex has now been 'greenlit' by Steam. Black Annex is written in QBasic!]

PS: I am not suggesting that QBasic is likely to be the best choice even if OP has coded in QBasic before ;-) But it just shows how limited is the importance of the tool.


mteo77(Posted 2013) [#9]
Hello.
Frankly speaking i have been playing with languages and tools for ages.
I started at the time of the amiga and the dreaded assembly...didn't go very far, my passion fpr pc just wasn't enough.
Then i discovered c, i quite enjoyed it but again used it for a very short time.
Then it's been amos time, quite enjoyed that but i couldn't go past some of it's procedures.
Then i discovered blitz basic...fell in love with it to the point i actually wrote few mini games.
Moved onto blitz 2, then sold my amiga.
Few years after that, in a time where work was slowing down (for me) i discovered that there was blitz for the pc...
So the last language i have used has been blitz3d.
Never used a game making tool, cause i always thought they were limiting.
I kept playing with some of them until yesterday, until i realised that most of the time i was coding anyway, because the basic drag and drop actions are a tad limiting or very restricted to the type of situation you are working in.
Returning back to the game idea i have...honestly speaking it's a very easy idea, there isn't any complicated AI or anything like that, and i thought that maybe sticking to monkey (which i am getting better) will be the fastest route for me anyway.
Maybe before making the final game i should attempt a basic editor myself (made one for the shootemup i made with blitz3d) and just get on with coding.
I am curious at what everyone else think about those visual tools, cause it seems lots of people use them with success, but i found them very limiting in their d&d interface, maybe it's just that i am used to coding!


mteo77(Posted 2013) [#10]
"I kept playing with some of them until yesterday, until i realised that most of the time i was coding anyway, because the basic drag and drop actions are a tad limiting or very restricted to the type of situation you are working in."

I meant i kept playing with some of them for the past 2 weeks until yesterday...


Armitage1982(Posted 2013) [#11]
If I were you, I would wait for the 4.3 version of Unity and its 2D support.
Then a bit later they will release a new GUI probably just in time to polish your product.
Or if you can't wait buy 2D Toolkit and NGui right now and it will be just fine ! But 4.3 is still the way to go if you like 2D physics.

I tried a lot of engines and make sure I won't get stuck by lacking features or limitations. Thanks to Unity3D I don't need to search anymore. The learning curve is not that steep ! When you get stuck somewhere, documentation / Support / Community / Assets are so active that it generally only takes a few minutes to find many solid solutions. You can certainly avoid using the interface if you prefer coding. I used to be like this too but then I saw the benefit of using both.

I got GM, Construct 2, Monkey but since 2 years now I'm waiting they "finish something to get started" which was not tolerable anymore. They may become great products but currently it doesn't fit my needs at all.

I guess it's between you and yourself. Whatever your choice you will need to learn and master your tool to get the best of it anyway.