AGK Kickstarter

Monkey Archive Forums/Digital Discussion/AGK Kickstarter

muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#1]
Interesting to see their proposed features: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tgc/app-game-kit-v2

Also, does anyone know how they're doing the deploy to iOS from a PC? I believe you can do something similar with Flash. Is it made possible because they're using interpreted scripts/bytecode via a pre-compiled executable?


AdamRedwoods(Posted 2013) [#2]
bleh. not even object-oriented. next!


Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2013) [#3]
Yeah screw the code but like muddy I am interested in how they braudcast to the device over wifi to get the game running, not owning a mac myself I cant test code on my ipad or my iphone so if something like this is possible, I hope mark can add it.


muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#4]
Looking at their site the PC->iOS deployment is down to the fact that it's compiling to bytecode. It means they can have a player app that you install from the app store that then simply receives the game file. As Monkey works by translation to native Obj-C it's not an option to do something similar.

As for the language it's certainly not better than Monkey. The interest for me is in seeing and comparing the marketed features of a direct competitor that appears to be running a successful (albeit financially modest) funding campaign.

While the language is more primitive it offers clearer high-level frameworks to creating a game (map editor, sprite system with collisions, particles, physics). Many of those features exist in the Monkey world via community activity but AGK takes the bold step of actually telling the customers that they exist. I wonder if that makes a difference.


impixi(Posted 2013) [#5]

bleh. not even object-oriented. next!



Neither is C but that's the world's most programmed language, according to some studies (google "most used programming language 2013"). ;)


MikeHart(Posted 2013) [#6]
They have an xcode project for the player part. You add your resources to it and then compile an app that you can upload on the appstore.

The ios player that you could download in the past was just a viewer app, that got the media streamed to and sent back the user input.


muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#7]
That may be how the release versions work but according to their own website the development with direct PC-> iOS via wifi is done via a player app that just receives the bytecode. See the bottom section here: http://www.appgamekit.com/basic.php


MikeHart(Posted 2013) [#8]
You were talking about the player that is in the appstore. That is just a playback device for a mediastream. Apple rejected the version you have mentioned right in the beginning. BUT you can still create your own player that receives the bytecode over wifi.

I would be very surprised if that has changed.

Edit: Just read a current topic there, which confirmed what i had said.


muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#9]
No, we weren't. We were talking about the ability to have direct loading to iOS from a PC during development. Yes, I said it was an app on the store because I read one part that said it was that. The fact that it's on the store or not (they actually build the iOS app for you to install but it is a store app on platforms that allow apps that load other code) isn't the issue.


MikeHart(Posted 2013) [#10]
Taiphoz, testing over WiFi is only possible with a player app and interpreted code. I know of these tools that do that:

AGK
Gamemaker Studio
Gideros Studio ( which is definitely the fastest regarding compiling and transmission)


Raz(Posted 2013) [#11]
The fast 2D shape commands will be expanded to include rectangles and ellipses (both filled and unfilled).


"will be expanded to include"

Well that's really something I guess!


muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#12]
Yeah, I had a chuckle about that and their promise to improve the sound library so that "the volume and pitch will be controllable".


Raz(Posted 2013) [#13]
Why on earth would anyone ever need to change the volume or pitch of a sound effect? They need to stop wasting their time on these things and start putting more physics inside.


dragon(Posted 2013) [#14]
i like more native apps than interpreted apps
AGK c++ lib is good, but monkey solution is better...
you can code once and convert to all platforms... NATIVE!
and you do not need cloud that are used by other solutions...

This is why i decided to buy monkey.


Tibit(Posted 2013) [#15]
Cool I like that "test on device" thing. That impressed me a lot.

These features I like too:
* Facebook & Twitter
* Video playback
* Notifications (iOS)
* Rate this app (iOS)
* Misc: camera access, QR codes, Zip file

However I would take more than that to draw me away from Monkey now, I feel too invested^^

Anyone here tested AGK hands down? How does it compare? Can it be used using the Monkey C++ target you think?


tiresius(Posted 2013) [#16]
I was a TGC fanboy for a decade. I evaluated AGK a year ago+ but didn't dig too deep into its capabilities just read the manual and tinkered. Instead of that I chose OOP and a nicer language over what I was familiar with (DBPro). Tough choice at the time but I haven't looked back since. :)


garyk1968(Posted 2013) [#17]
Yes and it doesn't have support for web/html5.

As Mike says its a layer app that receives the code, a la Gideros.

The fact that it's on the store or not (they actually build the iOS app for you to install but it is a store app on platforms that allow apps that load other code) isn't the issue.


Errrr...it is. What you can build and deploy to your own device using a dev profile is alot different to what you submit using an appstore distribution certificate in terms of what you can and cannot do.

Gary


Neuro(Posted 2013) [#18]
Anyone here tested AGK hands down? How does it compare? Can it be used using the Monkey C++ target you think?

I got the first AGK a while back when they first launched. When I did started playing around with it, i skipped over their tier 1 and went straight to the tier 2 for developing in "C++" in XCode. Structure-wise, it practically identical to their BASIC language with a few C++ exclusives, but otherwise everything was fairly solid. But if i recalled correctly, i was one of the lucky few who somehow actually managed to get the tier 2 version installed properly as many folks were having issues with it. Unfortunately I was not able to get their viewer to run correctly on my iPad or any other mobile device. Haven't done much with it since then. I just stuck with Monkey instead :).


muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#19]
Errrr...it is. What you can build and deploy to your own device using a dev profile is alot different to what you submit using an appstore distribution certificate in terms of what you can and cannot do.


Gordon bloody Christmas... it isn't the issue we were talking about because we were specifically talking about PC to iOS development in which case it makes no difference whether the player is on the app store or not.

It never ceases to amaze me how many around these parts are so keen to defend Monkey's honour or some such nonsense that you can't ever have a discussion about competitors or desired features without this kind of silly sniping.

* The AGK video showed code being tested on an iOS device direct from a PC dev machine over wifi.
* That would be an immensely useful, time-saving thing to be able to do.
* Monkey can't do it because it involves a player app running interpreted code.

That's it. I don't care if the player is downloaded from the store or delivered by carrier pigeon after faxing a scan of my buttocks to Timbuktu.


impixi(Posted 2013) [#20]
Meh, I've backed the AGK2 project since it includes a 3D engine. They've just hit the 20k stretch goal, the 3D engine enhancements, so that's cool. Still think the Monkey approach is better for mobile dev though...


Why0Why(Posted 2013) [#21]
It looks interesting. I have a bad habit of trying out new tools. I am sticking with Monkey but I am going to keep my eye on this. The price is certainly right.


garyk1968(Posted 2013) [#22]

Gordon bloody Christmas... it isn't the issue we were talking about because we were specifically talking about PC to iOS development in which case it makes no difference whether the player is on the app store or not.



I take your point I was emphasizing what passes app store approval.


It never ceases to amaze me how many around these parts are so keen to defend Monkey's honour or some such nonsense that you can't ever have a discussion about competitors or desired features without this kind of silly sniping.



Perhaps someone else was? I wasn't actually defending monkey, I'm new here, I'm dabbling with it, is it the best thing sliced bread? Not sure yet but happy so far.


That's it. I don't care if the player is downloaded from the store or delivered by carrier pigeon after faxing a scan of my buttocks to Timbuktu.



Good for you pal.

Gary


AndroidAndy(Posted 2013) [#23]
if the player is downloaded from the store or delivered by carrier pigeon after faxing a scan of my buttocks to Timbuktu.

I did hear about this feature, but I think it only works with the proper QR Code being tattooed on your behind :)

Haven't tried with Monkey, but I think you could create some automated scripts to transfer a Flash version bundled with AIR SDK 3.4 or higher to go direct to a iOS device. You might also be able to do a similar thing with PhoneGap with a HTML5 target, but that would require a few more steps.

Certainly a "Player" opens up all sorts of possibilities for testing and debugging. Doesn't look like a "Player" is anywhere on the Monkey roadmap for now. Not sure what the AGK debugger is going to look like, but for me a proper MonkeyCode debugger is the missing link in the evolution of the product. Is that enough to sway me over to the "Dark" side (DarkBasic), probably not, but worth keeping tabs of where AGK goes with this.


muddy_shoes(Posted 2013) [#24]
The possibility of a Monkey interpreter has been floated in the past for testing/debugging on desktop. The performance gap between natively compiled and interpreted code on iOS might make it a bit of a non-starter there. Perhaps not though.


Grant(Posted 2013) [#25]
Another ex TGC fanboy here, spent a few years using DarkBASIC, DBP and GDK to make games and demos. I had a look at AGK and actually cringed quite a bit, not for me! I tried out monkey and it hit the right spot instantly, so I bought it and have never looked back. Monkey is the best purchase I have made as far as programming goes, and it just keeps on getting better. Killer features are only as good as the supporting code and content you write/create for yourself. The amount of times I have been told I should be using Unity staggers me, especially when the people telling me to use it have done nothing special with all that power. Hell I'm fluent in c#, have Unity basic installed with iOS and android publishing and I still prefer to fire up TED and get my monkey on.


Salmakis(Posted 2013) [#26]
There are alot better ones than AGK if you want to have your stuff running in a player.
Gideros
Moai
Corona
just to name som.
I like the monkey stuff with the native code, since i think its more save and with this you are independend from that "player" and VM like stuff wich they all use.

But if you want to use something with a player you should check Gideros wich is kinda free (just shows a splash screen when you use the free version) or Moai wich is open source and free at all.

Hey mark you should just for fun add Monkey to kickstarter, just post the roadmap to version 100 or something xD

there are hundrets of projects there that the world is not really waiting for (since there are plenty of similar projects still existing), and they all got backed wich so freaking much money.