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Community Forums/Technical Discourse/.
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| Windows 10 S will only allow applications to run from their own junky (cr)app store. Unless you pay an additional get of jail fee of $50 to upgrade to 'pro' edition. The reason? Oh it's all for security reasons. The upgrade to Pro is free until the end of this year. In addition to the 'app store only' shit, the S version also doesn't allow you to change your search engine to anything other than Bing, and you can't change your default webbrowser to anything other than Edge. I wonder how long before the EU will smack them down for abusing their monopoly again. |
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| Second problem is any app that uses HTML or Javascript must use MS's proprietory edge engine. So Chrome/Opera would have to be re-written. I can't see this going down well. Again this is for 'security'. Oh right! Granted Google had to rewrite Chrome for iOS to use Apples web kit engine but you could argue a far greater demand there. Windows can already run Chrome right now so there is NO reason to close the doors. The bottomline is that Microsoft is REALLY jealous of Apple's 'gatekeeper' role on their platform, where they control everything and get to skim a 30% cut off everything that happens on iOS. They would LOVE to do the same thing for windows, because they rather make money on other people's efforts than have to compete on their own merit. Windows 8 was the first attempt to position themselves that way, and they got roasted by their customers over it since it's one thing to create a brand new empty walled garden and invite people in (like apple), as opposed to take your existing city with countless millions of inhabitants and then building checkpoints and barbed-wire walls around it to retroactively impose more control (which is what Microsoft is repeatedly trying to do in recent years) (On the corporate side, they keep taking functionality away from the Windows Pro in order to 'persuade' corporations from enrolling into their Enterprise plans -- e.g. more and more of the management group policies start getting ignored by Pro after updates, and require Windows Enterprise now) |
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| I have a Window 8 laptop, and I had to deal with the Windows 10 upgrade prompts thing when they were rolling that out. Boy that got a little obnoxious, same thing for the setup and all the accounts they wanted you to make. |
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| I wonder how long before the EU will smack them down for abusing their monopoly again. The EU is falling apart. I'd wager MS are hedging their bets on the EUs horses ... falling down.. poker. Too early in the morning to continue that train of locomotion. |
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| The EU is falling apart. I'd wager MS are hedging their bets on the EUs horses ... falling down.. poker. The EU market is almost twice the size of the US market to Microsoft -- they really can't afford to get a sales ban there. And although the UK (barely) decided to drop out, the most recent Dutch and French elections were a resounding rejection of the anti-EU parties. It's not going anywhere. |
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| And although the UK (barely) decided to drop out, the most recent Dutch and French elections were a resounding rejection of the anti-EU parties. It's not going anywhere. LOL. You have no idea what's in store for Europe in the coming years. :) |
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| The EU market is almost twice the size of the US market to Microsoft -- they really can't afford to get a sales ban there. Didn't realise the market was quite that large. Fair enough. the most recent Dutch and French elections were a resounding rejection of the anti-EU parties France was a surprise, but I wouldn't call the Dutch win resounding. The conservatives there have gained a remarkable increase in seats for the first time in like a decade or something. Last I heard, Sweden is now being run by conservatives, too; almost an unfathomable turn of events. Poland and a couple others nearer the problem borders are deciding to have none of it, in general. The next two elections in each EU country are going to be fascinating to pay attention to, in order to see which way things will swing. I think at this point things could easily be as tumultuous as they could be relatively plain sailing. |
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| ..EU is disaster, and i hope it will explode like a supernova..what a frankenstein is that.. |
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| Didn't realise the market was quite that large. Fair enough. EU population is 510 million people, 739 million for all of Europe USA population is 326 million, 363 million for all North America. |
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| Indeed, but there is more than just America outside the EU :D |
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| One thing everyone overlooked is Junker recently expressed a "interest" in a European army which could save it's members money as it would be there to protect Europe and it's members. The thing that jumps to mind is the EU is mostly controlled by Germany so a massive European army would not be a good idea. It seems we haven't learnt from history enough yet. As for the S I think it's all downhill as soon as you start imposing your will onto your customers. |
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| I do love it when MS trying to do the same crap as Apple get's the proletariat(*) up in arms. My only comment on this is that at the price MS is planning to charge for these it is going to be a failure. Chromebooks sell to schools since they are cheap. Apple, well I'll just say that the company should reorganize as a religion. (*) - considering the anti-EU turn this thread has gone I find it an appropriate phrase in this case. |
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| For me personally EU has been only positive thing. Never has it been easier to order stuff inside EU region. And I do remember the last big economic crisis in 1990 (when Soviets fell, not related though) interest rates sky rocketed and general population couldn't afford to pay anymore and lost their homes and businesses. Current economic crisis that started in 2008, I believe without EU the situation could be much worse for regular Joe in Europe (as is my personal perspective after been through both). On thread related, EU has also kept MS in check :-) -Henri |
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| as others have said I think the timing of this it's strangely coincidentally close to things that will keep the EU occupied like Brexit and other elections etc. |
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| Yes you. And anyone else calling out MS for this and NOT calling out Apple. > Back on topic (and away from the EU talk) the end game plan as I see it is, MS want to control ALL software on your PC and at the same time skim off a percentage from the software makers. You mean just like Apple with their App store, which Apple gets praise for doing and MS gets vilified? |
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| You mean just like Apple with their App store, which Apple gets praise for doing and MS gets vilified? Like I said: "it's one thing to create a brand new empty walled garden and invite people in (like apple), as opposed to take your existing city with countless millions of inhabitants and then building checkpoints and barbed-wire walls around it to retroactively impose more control (which is what Microsoft is repeatedly trying to do in recent years)" And keep in mind, part of the reason microsoft is treated differently here, is that they are a convicted monopolist. The courts consider it a proven fact that they were a monopoly, and abused their position to crush any competition. (It's not illegal to be a monopoly, but illegally leveraging your position is) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp. Anyway -- like it or not, the rules ARE different for a monopoly than a non-monopoly. There are certain things that are OK (albeit annoying) for Apple to do, that are ILLEGAL for Microsoft simply because Apple doesn't have a monopoly while Microsoft does. Without that distinction, corporations would become unchangeable, especially when they can leverage their monopoly in one market (desktop operating systems) to become the standard in another (Internet explorer, which for a while became the defacto standard browser on the internet. THANKS to the court action, MS had to compete on their actual merits when it came to web browsers, and as a result they now have a much more realistic 22% market share for IE on the desktop, and 5% for Edge. without the restrictions, they could easily have become the one and only gatekeeper to ALL content, which is in no ones best interest (other than MS share holders, perhaps) Part of the settlement required microsoft to follow a very stringent set of rules, and time and again they keep getting caught not complying with the court orders. (e.g. they had to offer a browser selection screen in the EU giving people a choice between IE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera, and the next 5 most popular browsers in the market, aranged in random order to not give IE any unfair advantage. MS complied, but as soon as the next service pack came along they reverted all settings to make IE the default browser again, and got smacked down in court once more for that.) Don't like to play under different rules? Very easy fix for that: don't repeatedly and provably attempt to screw over everyone else by abusing your monopoly position. MS has no one to blame for their 'treatment' than their own choices. Unfortunately, their oversight period is coming to an end, which is why you see Microsoft testing the waters and trying to actively restrict your choices once again, like with Windows S. They've learning nothing from the past. |
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| They've learning nothing from the past. Or they just learned the wrong things. |
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| Or they just learned the wrong things. It is interesting that when they have to compete on merits rather than on their existing monopoly, they simply can't compete. MS has nothing to show for BILLIONS of dollars in marketing, research and acquisitions -- Windows phones now have a whopping 0.7% market share, and is shrinking rapidly. New sales in 2016 were 71% lower than those in 2015, while the smartphone market as a whole is actually growing. They -tried- to leverage windows into propping up their phone business with windows 8, by removing the start menu and giving you the stupid tile system on the desktop computers, in an attempt to get people to seek out the same 'familiar' interface on their smartphone. Lucky for us, that backfired spectacularly, and Windows 8 ended up being one of the most reviled windows launches ever. |
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| Or they just learned the wrong things. It is interesting that when they have to compete on merits rather than on their existing monopoly, they simply can't compete. MS has nothing to show for BILLIONS of dollars in marketing, research and acquisitions -- Windows phones now have a whopping 0.7% market share, and is shrinking rapidly. New sales in 2016 were 71% lower than those in 2015, while the smartphone market as a whole is actually growing. They -tried- to leverage windows into propping up their phone business with windows 8, by removing the start menu and giving you the stupid tile system on the desktop computers, in an attempt to get people to seek out the same 'familiar' interface on their smartphone. Lucky for us, that backfired spectacularly, and Windows 8 ended up being one of the most reviled windows launches ever. |
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| It's good to know that they aren't invincible. I wonder if Linux or some other OS could knock them down. |
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| Well, Apple can do quite anything because it has a closed ecosystem: its own OS, its own hardware. Microsoft indeed has no this limit: it can run on any devices (x86 and maybe ARM) so the MS position is very different. And this W10s it's clearly a 'cut-down' thing to fight mainly ChromeOS in school (as I've read that it comes with MS Office installed): I really doubt that in Europe (and I have no info about ChromeOS & co in this case) could change a thing. Even this move (Office) could be considered anti-concurrence: to learn the 'basic' of an office application just use LibreOffice, OpenOffice or anything else FREE (we are speaking of school, public money). One OS, not so many versions. Is it so difficult? ot: about EU. The main (and known) limits of UE are 2: the presence of too many strictly rules (mainly economic/financial about public debt) and the big Germany, that would to rule everyone, speak of follow the rules but before impose this, they did everything possible! Surely any UE country has its own problems. But a future with a broken EU will be a bad future, for everyone. UK will see problems (unfortunately), and it's clear that Brexit was a decision emotional-driven (for what reason just part of the UK citizens know!) Back on topic: Windows10S what kind of applications will run? MX2 and MonkeyX needs to be modified or they are already ready out of the box? |
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| I wonder if Linux or some other OS could knock them down. On the desktop? Not any time soon, since Microsoft's major advantage is backwards compatibility with hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions of legacy programs that are available & work, and a small fraction of those are available on other platforms. (Steam hardware Survey show 96.13% Windows, 2.99% Mac, 0.76% Linux: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ ) On the server side on the other hand, Linux is leader of the pack -- the majority of webservers and email servers in the world run linux these days. (The stats are a bit skewed since for years Microsoft was actually paying godaddy and some other major hosting companies to use Windows IIS to park inactive domains on, so Windows looked better represented in the usage stats when it came to # of sites running it) Same thing when it comes to super computing -- most super computers run some form of Linux. |
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