MS artificially cripples Windows 7 on newer CPUs

Community Forums/Technical Discourse/MS artificially cripples Windows 7 on newer CPUs

Hotcakes(Posted March) [#1]
It was announced some time ago that 7th gen Intel CPUs would only be supported on Windows 10. It seems they're doing this by disabling Windows Update functionality.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4012982/discusses-an-issue-in-which-you-receive-a-your-pc-uses-a-processor-tha

I'm surprised Intel seem to be OK with this.


skidracer(Posted March) [#2]
I think Microsoft have enough on their plates making Windows 10 stable without supporting bleeding edge cpu / memory / onchip peripheral drivers on legacy operating systems.


Hotcakes(Posted March) [#3]
I take it you have no idea what the article is about?

*'Legacy' OSs that are still receiving official support until 2020
*7th Gen CPUs are perfectly compatible with ANY Windows NT 6 kernel. Windows Update works perfectly on a 7th Gen CPU - because it's running the same code as for any other CPU. MS will be halting WU from working on these CPUs based on server side checks. Additionally, as of last week when I checked last, Windows Update installs all >200 updates that applies to a fresh Win7SP1 install with no issues on a system powered by a 7th Gen Intel CPU.


xlsior(Posted March) [#4]
I think Microsoft have enough on their plates making Windows 10 stable without supporting bleeding edge cpu / memory / onchip peripheral drivers on legacy operating systems.


It's one thing to say "we won't add support for the latest new feature of CPU X", but in this case they are actively saying "You are running CPU X? Even though it's 100% backwards compatible with other CPUs that are supported by the same windows version, you're not allowed to install it on this one because we rather sell you a brand spanking new Win10 license instead"

There is NO technical reason to prohibit this. As a matter of fact, a few years ago they tried to pull the same thing with a different CPU range, and changed their minds at the last moment after they got too many complaints from their corporate customers.

Like Hotcakes said: that "legacy operating system" is still actively supported by Microsoft until 2020


skidracer(Posted March) [#5]
Sorry I still disagree, in terms of investment and focus I think Microsoft are doing what they need to do. If you don't want an OS governed by executive vice presidents boot Linux.


Were humbled by this early success and were grateful to our partners who are helping make it happen. In addition to our OEM partners, throughout the design of Windows 10, weve been working closely with our silicon partners, including Intel, AMD, NVidia, and Qualcomm, on collaborative engineering to ensure Windows 10 takes full advantage of new silicon features. We continue to partner with these companies on their roadmaps, to achieve breakthroughs in performance, imaging, connectivity, power, graphics, and more as the Windows platform evolves with them. The modern computing world is being defined by this deep integration between silicon, platform, and hardware and we are excited by the joint innovations ahead with these partners. Always, we want Windows to lead in both adoption of new silicon innovation and also product quality. This is the dual goal that drives our investments and focus.




https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/01/15/windows-10-embracing-silicon-innovation/#i0S9A7sgfOffo8YJ.97


Steve Elliott(Posted March) [#6]
Precisely. Apple have been doing similar for years.


col(Posted March) [#7]
It just goes to show that desperate times calls for desperate measures.

Too bad that the executive are too blind to realize that if the OS is any good then people will flock to it naturally without the need for bad business practices and deception.

Maybe the reason people don't want to use it is because it is, for various reasons and others, not as good as other OSs for users to use.


Henri(Posted March) [#8]
I was bit puzzled by the statement in the blog:
Compared to Windows 7 PCs, Skylake when combined with Windows 10, enables up to 30x better graphics..
..as to what that actually meant.

Personally I'm not that concerned by this logical next step from MS. When I'm forced to abandon Windows 7, Windows 10 wont be the most likely option.

-Henri


Ian Thompson(Posted March) [#9]
As with Apple, this is just a round about way of forcing its users to update ( to shell out more cash ). The compatibility bit has already been worked out by the chip vendors the OS makers really are using the ignorance of the average PC user to make them feel like it's an essential update because they have no option. MS is doing a page for page copy of how Apple runs it business but without any clear branding, it's just pissing people off.


gpete(Posted March) [#10]
When you had the chance to update to Win 10 for "free" might have been a good time to save money. It is true that a lot of legacy apps do not run in Win 10- Blitz products are not one of those thank goodness. So my venerable Win 98 Paint Shop Pro 6 works fine in Win 10. Corel Paint Shop Pro X4 for Win 7 does not work! Corel had built in code to require you to update to PS Pro 9 for $39.00 if you were not running Win 7.
As for moving to Linux or Apple OS- yep..that will be fun- ;)


Rick Nasher(Posted March) [#11]
It's been doing this silently for years if not decades. Here's some evidence..

1) Just try doing a clean install of Win7 on an older Vista capable hardware(= more resource hungry): You'll see it runs super speedy, giving you back that 'wow' feeling.
2) Then compare after installing all the updates, especially the ones that came out when Win8 was about to be released: It suddenly crawls ahead like a snail which had salt put on it's back and superglue on it's snail trail.

Coincidence, no intent?

It's something I've noticed with XP(SP3) also, but now became a bit too clear to me. This line of evolution promises to render all our hardware useless within the next few Win10 'free' and probably unstoppable updates.

This while I don't see any real need for something like the OS to run any slower or getting more bulky than before unless for things like gfx demands(higher res screens) or new features. But I don't see anything radically new in the OS that would justify this. Rather optimizations would make it speedier. Of course drivers for all kind of devices, could do it, but they don't require to be installed inside the OS for every system, just leave them on the install media until required and make the OS scalable to the devices capabilities until expansion. But of course this is not in the interest of the HW/OS creators, as in this way the IT business keeps the mill spinning.

3) Also check what silly thing they(W1ntel&M$) did with the intel Skylake chipset: Suddenly they decided to take out support for anything below USB3.0 and for no real hw necessity making an install of Win7 on these systems, quite an illusive endeavor(USB driver injection into their images required).
See: http://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-remove-support-usb-based-windows-7-installation-platform-specs/

Start saving I'd say.

Disclaimer: above text is not to be taken seriously and does in no way reflect or represent any of my real thoughts and expressions rather than that they are the rantings of a paranoid madman that had 1 too many.. ;-)


Hotcakes(Posted March) [#12]
Too bad that the executive are too blind to realize that if the OS is any good then people will flock to it naturally without the need for bad business practices and deception.


They're well aware of the bad business practices and deception; the same people pushed it into the OS in the first place.

Precisely. Apple have been doing similar for years.

And the last time I bought an Apple product was never ago.

When you had the chance to update to Win 10 for "free" might have been a good time to save money.

Did that and immediately wound back. Now I have the key registered for whenever I want or need it. But the way they're pushing this mess of an OS, I'm much more likely to want to use Windows 7 and appropriate workarounds.

Then compare after installing all the updates, especially the ones that came out when Win8 was about to be released: It suddenly crawls ahead like a snail which had salt put on it's back and superglue on it's snail trail.

More recently, it started taking ONE WEEK (two on AMD) to do the first round of updates. Even more recently, MS fixed it and it can now install all updates in less than one working day. Only three years late, but still.


col(Posted March) [#13]
They're well aware of the bad business practices and deception; the same people pushed it into the OS in the first place.

What I meant was if the OS is a good OS then there's no need for the bad business practices in the first place. But they don't see it as a bad OS and are just hell bend and blinkered on market share and statistics instead of good quality.

I mean you only have to google 'edge browser secure' to see all of the hype. However in the real world things can be different.


Henri(Posted March) [#14]
What I meant was if the OS is a good OS then there's no need for the bad business practices in the first place

Exactly. If Windows 10 wouldn't have been forced the way it was, I probably would now be using it. I just don't like to be bithandled :-).

Nothing is forever. There are plenty of examples in the past, due to some bad choices perhaps, that even the mighty have fallen.
This doesn't mean that I wish the end of Windows (or MS), but that day will come eventually.

-Henri


Steve Elliott(Posted March) [#15]
Fine! But Apple force the isheep to do whatever they want, and the sheep don't complain! Wake up and stop whining.

The only OS I think can have a valid argument is Linux.


skidracer(Posted March) [#16]
isheep?

Really Steve?

As an apple user since ][ colour me offended.

Not enough to respond with a blunt and unfriendly summation of your own character, that would lower the tone of this forum. Comprendez?


Steve Elliott(Posted March) [#17]
Comprendez? Really? Tread carefully. Nobody really wants a Java clone at a Blitz BASIC site and a moderator that threatens to attack it's customers either.

Yes really. The people who queue around the block for outdated iphone tech on day one of the latest iphone.

That believe all that bullshit, that makes their stolen tech with a fancy UI near Star Trek in vision. That are form over function...So they can take function and connectivity and battery life away...Just so they can make a device a few mm thinner.

That go into business with a partner...Then sue that partner.

That do not support anything over a few years old - yet people are critising ms for finally abandoning XP quite recently. Ms support many system configurations. Apple don't bother...Easy for them to abandon their customers and take the easy route.

And Apple over-charge their customers at every turn. Weither it's hardware, or charging for adaptors for the latest change in design.


dynaman(Posted March) [#18]
> Fine! But Apple force the isheep to do whatever they want, and the sheep don't complain!

Darn straight, in fact they BRAG about it.

> isheep?
>Really Steve?

Heck really, most snobbish and deluded group of people on the planet.


Hotcakes(Posted March) [#19]
Exactly. If Windows 10 wouldn't have been forced the way it was, I probably would now be using it. I just don't like to be bithandled :-).

It still strikes me as strange that they gave away the OS for free, with the consumer being the product sold, and yet now they are charging for it, while simultaneously still selling the consumer. That people don't object to this is bewildering to me.

the sheep don't complain! Wake up and stop whining.

I eat sheep for dinner.

isheep?

Really Steve?

Anti-consumerism? Really skid?

Not enough to respond with a blunt and unfriendly summation of your own character, that would lower the tone of this forum. Comprendez?

So you'll do it no holds barred instead.


skidracer(Posted March) [#20]

So you'll do it no holds barred instead.



Really Hotcakes? Unless there is blood dripping from between the lines I thought I was doing alright expressing my distaste for intolerance. As we all have different cultural norms I will try and tread as Steve suggests a little more carefully.


Nobody really wants a Java clone at a Blitz BASIC site and a moderator that threatens to attack it's customers either.



In regards to a Java clone I assume you are referring to BlitzMax???


(tu) ENAY(Posted March) [#21]
These days, if you give something away for free, you can be guaranteed that it is filled with some sort of legalised spyware or data mining functionality. If something was truly free then Microsoft would go bankrupt. Money is being made somewhere.

The Apple and Google Play store are free, it's inevitable that Microsoft would have to do the same. I mean, wow can you imagine anyone in this day and age saying they're saying up money to buy a new operating system? Most people hate upgrading even when it's free.

Slowly crippling your previous OS has been around for years, even the Win98 updates made it slower.


Kryzon(Posted March) [#22]
In regards to a Java clone I assume you are referring to BlitzMax???

I think he's referring to the Monkey line of products.


Hotcakes(Posted March) [#23]
Really Hotcakes? Unless there is blood dripping from between the lines I thought I was doing alright expressing my distaste for intolerance.

You created it where there was none.


(tu) ENAY(Posted March) [#24]
I'd be careful of provoking things further Hotcakes, many bb users have already fallen victim to shadow bans already.


skidracer(Posted March) [#25]
Revoking posting privileges is hardly shadow banning. A simple email exchange in most cases being all that is required to reinstate.


(tu) ENAY(Posted March) [#26]
Well, I've witnessed a fair few times, a topic that got heated, went to bed, came back in the morning and found not only all the topics deleted but the user mysteriously not posting anymore.

I'd rather not have any more oldskool members vanish from this community due to a pointless argument that could have been either avoided or just quite simply prevented from escalating in the first place.


Hotcakes(Posted March) [#27]
Seems like the best thing to do at this point would be to stop going on about it and stay on topic.


popcade(Posted March) [#28]
As I know there're some workarounds to deal with this coming problem, BTW I didn't update my Windows 7 SP1 for a long while, if I get a new PC/Laptop I may just use the Win10 come with it, not big problem.


Ian Thompson(Posted March) [#29]
I bought a ASRock Beebox N3150 as a under-TV Media box about a year ago, great little PC. It came with Windows 10, which I removed for my trusty Windows 7. It has a USB 3 port only, no USB 2 or CD-ROM. It did support Windows 7 as was stated in the advert, it even has a full set of chipset drivers for Windows 7 64 bit on the Asrock website. So I did what I have done before created a bootable ISO image on a USB drive. Stuck it in and hit reset, it booted fine(bios support was there), wrote the boot image to the SSD and restarted to initialise the full installation. Then bang, error, no Windows disk found it stopped reading the USB drive even though it booted fine from there only seconds before, the installation halted. USB drive was fine. Nothing would make this work.

After a bit(a lot) of investigation. I discovered, even though Windows 7 64 bit has full support for the BeeBox Intel chipset(including the USB 3 port) once installed, the MS boot image does not. No USB 3 drivers are included with the boot image. It has been removed by MS. Even using a USB 2 drive will not work as the port is dead to the boot image.

This means, that hardware that is compatible with Windows 7 cannot install Windows 7 as MS has removed the ability to install Windows 7 on compatible Windows 7 hardware. Madness.

The only way around is to inject the Intel USB 3 drivers into the boot image ISO via a patcher utility. This was almost useless as the the Intel patcher was very version specific so I ended up ripping out all of the compressed and signed windows ISO installation files and creating my own custom installation, a total PITA.

I have no doubt, MS knew what it was doing. Install Windows 10, easy peasy, install Windows 7, almost impossible for your average user.


Hotcakes(Posted March) [#30]
Been there, done that (twice). Everyone keeps saying USB3 support was removed from the disc; I wonder if downloading an original Win7 iso (no SP1) would just be easier for most people...


(tu) ENAY(Posted March) [#31]


I have no doubt, MS knew what it was doing. Install Windows 10, easy peasy, install Windows 7, almost impossible for your average user.



I still can't believe that we live in a world where people think that computers get slower and age over time as if they were cars, because the manufacturers want them to think that.
Purposely neglecting your old software like this and like you say making Windows 7 and older operating systems seem worse than they actually. I really hate it.

However the average user will think to themselves "Wow look how easy Windows 10 is", when in reality Windows7 was like that originally.


Naughty Alien(Posted March) [#32]
..one of my cars is 20 years old, range rover P38..it has it all, super soft air suspension, navigation, hydraulic steering, cruise control, etc etc..beauty..then i have some friends with their brand new BMW and making jokes about me driving 20 years old truck and showing off 'superiority'..in reality, hes sitting in a shiny car which has no any more feature my 20 years old rig doesn't have, doesn't ride any softer and quieter than my rover, but it has critical parts of the engine made out of bloody plastic, while my 'oldie' is raw metal...last month i tow him from highway as car suffered total engine failure due overheat...water pump made of plastic died..

This is how i see this, w10 is better than w7 'conflict'..if it works well, and it does, why bother? I see no benefit at all, to upgrade..and when i do, probably will be some linux variant (unless MS came to its senses)..


Matty(Posted March) [#33]
@Naughty agree with your philosophy but capitalism demands wasteful disposable consumerism.

I know a printer guy who services 80 year old printers that will last forever whereas the modern ones have a 5 year warranty and will break down in around that time.


(tu) ENAY(Posted March) [#34]
Naughty Alien, when I was a kid in the 80s, 90s, my father was always banging on about cars or machines that didn't have stainless steel. Now I kind of realise what he meant. Industries are purposely making their stuff break easily, to preserve their own industries.


Yan(Posted March) [#35]
LOL @ this thread. |oD


Ian Thompson(Posted March) [#36]
Well I will probably be going down the Linux route too soon. Been perfectly happy with Windows for many years but I can't help but think how the hell we ended up here.


xlsior(Posted March) [#37]
but I can't help but think how the hell we ended up here


Easy -- Monopolies in charge of both the hardware (Intel) and the software (Microsoft), with planned obsolescence and a captive audience.


col(Posted March) [#38]
and a captive audience.

Relying on the audience knowing practically nothing about what they are doing, what they are doing it on and how 'what they are doing it on' works. Which is the same business model that most major corporate companies are using nowadays - relying on the ignorance of the consumer.