One for JoshK

Community Forums/Technical Discourse/One for JoshK

(tu) ENAY(Posted 2017) [#1]
What I've been saying for years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wr82xk6BAQ

Whole video is fine to watch, but from 2:10 is around the best area.

It's all about high end gaming now and certain types of office work. That's all PCs are worth now.


Matty(Posted 2017) [#2]
Some anecdotal evidence: my parents, in their 60s and 70s, used to use their PC all the time - it was on all day. Mum used to check email and facebook non stop on it. This was going back about 3 years ago.

Now - they use an ipad and a mobile phone to check email and facebook. There is some work that mum does on ancestry.com but most of the time the pc is off.....completely unused.


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2017) [#3]
PC's are used mostly for high end gaming and work related stuff (like office)
E-mails, Internet, facebook, youtube etc, can be done on smartphones and tablets.

I use my PS3 for youtube and my Vita for e-mails. I don't even feel the need for a tablet yet, let alone another PC.

Same for you then Matty, my mum has an ipad and my dad has an iphone. My Dad only uses his laptop when transferring movie files from his camera and wants to burn them to DVD.

PCs used to be required to do everything, now they're just an alternative.


Winni(Posted 2017) [#4]
PCs used to be required to do everything, now they're just an alternative.


Of course, I disagree. I use my (work) notebook for EVERYTHING. My company smartphone (Galaxy Note IV) and my Kindle Fire HDX tablet are only inferior alternatives... for web browsing and maybe eBook reading. Because that's all those mobile gadgets are even remotely usable for. I can't fucking type on a touch screen - and I type A LOT every day. Writing more than an SMS on a mobile gadget is torture for me - and even typing an SMS feels like an exercise in finger breaking on those ridiculous touch screen "keyboards". It might be a different story if that stuff had been around in the 1980s when I was in my teens, but since it wasn't, that technology simply isn't for me.

PCs and what they're used for might change, but they're not going away. The progresses in tablet/smartphone development has stagnated or, if you want to give it a more positive paint finish, it has "matured". Meaning there's not that much left to explore and develop. There will be the next big thing somewhere down the road, but it won't be a new tablet or smartphone. Yes, it won't be a new PC either. It'll be something else, maybe a new kind of wearable technology, maybe some "surrounding" technology that doesn't even need to be worn. But still, what we have now will still be used in certain ways because it occupies niches that are best served with those "legacy" devices. And unless this Canonical and Microsoft vision of real hybrid devices (read: smartphones that can turn into full blown PCs) because an everyday reality, I just don't see how e.g. accountants will ever do their jobs on tablets...


coffeedotbean(Posted 2017) [#5]
You also need to account for PC's lasting longer, even Dells and HP's can be expanded, slap a 120 GTX 1050Ti into a Dell with an i3 and your gaming at 1080p 30/60 no problem.

I got an old Dell Optiplex 360 (dual core 2GB) from 2011 I bought from work for 10, I've upped the RAM to 4GB (max it can support), got a 120GB SSD and GTX 710 graphics card, sure I spent almost 100 on the upgrades but it makes for a more than capable 2nd PC I use for ancillary tasks.


steve_ancell(Posted 2017) [#6]
Can you imagine trying to code games and applications on a tablet?, 'nuff said! :p


Derron(Posted 2017) [#7]
My parents still use their computers for everything needing a bit more "trust2:
- buying on amazon
- buying on ebay
- home banking
- ...

Why? Because I am the admin of their linux OS. Maybe they trust it more than their android "china-distribution" or "Windows OS" (Windows Phone).

Also web surfing via a smartphone is like using "lynx" - it just does not have the same comfort as a desktop browser + hardware keyboard + mouse.
Because of an OSD-keyboard your screen space gets limited, because of limited screen space you cannot work with favorites+icons+tabs. Yes, you could but the elements are that big (resolution is unimportant as device size determines the "real-world-dimension").

Then mobile views to websites differ to desktop ones (you do not get all options).


So you end up surfing like an ape: visit a new page ? click on the link. Want to see the old page again? back back back back ...
What?
On desktops it is totally common to eg. click all interesting ebay articles with middle-mouse-click or ctrl+click -> new tab.
Then you just visit all tabs until you think it is interesting.

You do not do this on a smartphone - even if it has 2 or 3 gig of ram. It just does not stay "fast" then.



So back to my parents: they use the smartphone for whatsapp ("ohh grandson is so sweet") or to read news, because _reading_ is what smartphones allow for (this is what others here in the thread already mentioned). Even PDFs tend to just look awful on smartphones (too small - or not displayed properly). Epubs and other "flow-able" text formats (like raw html-paragraphs with font-styling) are working good on a smartphone. They also use it to get informed about incoming emails but they do write their replies on a normal computer (if it is more than an "ok?"). They just avoid that small on-screen-keyboards as much as possible.


I myself do use the smartphone for a bit more - just because I "can". So I have a terminal installed on the phone - just in the rare cases of needing to ssh into my servers without having a computer next to me. But I would not use it at home. It is just inconvenient. I also have some IT-related tools installed (wifi analyzers, SSL proxies etc.) but it is just something which is not possible or not convenient to do with a desktop PC (laptops could help - but do not fit into my pocket)

Even writing here in the forums is inconvenient with a tablet or smartphone. I use it to read topics or to give short replies but hey... writing blitzmax code with the onscreen-keyboard? with all the special keys being hidden in second-level-screens. Or they need a landscape-mode and a tablet (full 102+ key-layout).


Argh no ... smartphones are for mobile communication and entertainment (games, taking some pictures), but for serious things (if communication isn't your day-job) I would prefer and still suggest a desktop computer.


Wonder how long I would have needed to type this post on my smartphone.


bye
Ron


Steve Elliott(Posted 2017) [#8]

steve_ancell
Can you imagine trying to code games and applications on a tablet?, 'nuff said! :p



lol I'm not a fan.

I see people squinting on tiny mobile phone screens, going blind trying to surf the web for hours. Don't get me wrong I do like to quickly pop on-line or read a quick email, but some are using it as their main Web Browser and that's insane!

And using a tablet is like picking up my monitor. I have to constantly hold it, rather than it being in-front of me, while I type on a 'real' keyboard supported by a desk. They're so damn uncomfortable for more than 10 minutes!


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2017) [#9]
Ok, YOU and ME, we still used PCs, it's what we are used too. I have never owned a tablet or smart phone, to this day.

What I am saying is, for the next generation, the ones who grew up without knowing an Internet. Or the days of mobile devices, they start with those devices and not a PC.

I hate tablets and smartphones, I hate typing on them. But for many people, it's quicker and easier to use them rather than booting up a PC, because they are instant.


BlitzMan(Posted 2017) [#10]
My mum is using her i pad air as a door stop.I kid you not hehe.


xlsior(Posted 2017) [#11]
On top of that, even for those who do use a PC, they have so much more power now that they've reached the "good enough" state for the vast majority of users with basic needs, greatly reducing the pressure for them to upgrade to a newer/faster model.

Heck, my own PC is 5 years old right now, and I feel absolutely no need to upgrade it to something faster -- that's the first time for as long as I've owned PC's.


Floyd(Posted 2017) [#12]
I was just now reminded of how much things have changed in addition to PC speed.

The latest nvidia driver is a 380MB download. It took a little over one minute. My first modem ( yes, dial-up ) ran at 300 bits per second. That 380MB download would have taken about four months, running 24/7.

I subscribed to CompuServe in 1985. It cost 6 USD per hour. That's about $13.50 in today's money. It seemed like a good deal too. There was an enormous amount of content compared to the free BBS's hosted by enthusiasts.


xlsior(Posted 2017) [#13]
I subscribed to CompuServe in 1985. It cost 6 USD per hour. That's about $13.50 in today's money. It seemed like a good deal too. There was an enormous amount of content compared to the free BBS's hosted by enthusiasts.


I signed up with my first internet provider in early 1995, when they first opened up a non-long distance number in my area. They didn't have an hour limit, instead they had a 30MB/month limit on international data (anything outside of their nlnet peering network). Download more than 30MB and pay by the MB. (Don't remember the cost).

I switched a few months later when a different ISP opened a non-long distance number in my area that offered 'unlimited' internet downloads for a flat fee.

(Of course, in NL in addition to the ISP cost itself you also paid the telephone company by the minute for local phone calls, albeit cheaper than long distance rates)


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2017) [#14]
More to the point, why does an nvidia driver need 380MB?! No longer drivers but lots of other crap and probably a compulsory McAfee Virus checker from 2008 or something :)

I can still remember when Encarta95 was a thing, anyone remember that? A whole multimedia encyclopedia on a 650MB CD. Now an nvidia takes up more than half.


xlsior(Posted 2017) [#15]
HP has printer drivers that are hundreds of megabytes as well.

Blast from the past: my entire Windows for Workgroups 3.11 installation including all its installed windows hardware drivers (video, sound, network, printer, etc.), internet connectivity software AND webbrowser software could be compressed into a six megabyte zip file.

And for comparison, today the Microsoft intellipoint mouse driver has an installer that's 21MB compressed.


steve_ancell(Posted 2017) [#16]
There's a reason why GFX cards have dirty great heatsinks on them, tablets are as flat as a pancake which is why they overheat and crap out so often. With current technology a tablet could never out perform a well-built PC; but when they start applying single layer graphene to stuff, who knows...

I have a feeling desktop PCs will be around for quite a while longer. I also reckon PCs have more chance of being replaced by augmented wearable tech rather than tablets.


BlitzSupport(Posted 2017) [#17]
I remember complaining when Nvidia drivers bloated up to a massive 32MB!


Blitzplotter(Posted 2017) [#18]
Hmm, I've an Asus Transformer Android tablet, which I use daily. However, My PC is where I like to play with my Blitz products on occasion. You can't beat a bit of dual screenage action ;). Terry Pratchet had 6 screens hooked up to his PC - is that screen nirvana or would 3 24 inchers cut the mustard these days..... Less is more, nah!


Steve Elliott(Posted 2017) [#19]
This is why I get so excited about the efficiency of the Raspberry pi 3 - it's old skool to an extent (but in a credit card sized computer) all-be-it with a fair amount of power (64-bit quad core processor running Linux) and minimal bloat...It makes the very most of it's resources...It's currently running off a battery, wow, a battery (about the same size as the pi) and emulating Street Fighter II...Now R-Type II - now that IS efficiency!


RemiD(Posted 2017) [#20]
if i want to do a quick search on the web, find a place on a map, listento/watch a podcast/video, check the weather, read/write emails, read ebooks, take notes, draw, i use my tablet
if i want to do more complex stuff like to code, model, animation, edit audios, edit videos, or buy/sell stuff, i use the laptop

So i say they are complementary.


Steve Elliott(Posted 2017) [#21]

if i want to do a quick search on the web, find a place on a map, listento/watch a podcast/video, check the weather, read/write emails, read ebooks, take notes, draw, i use my tablet



Fair enough, but typing on something you have to hold constantly, I find that very uncomfortable. I never use my tablet.


Steve Elliott(Posted 2017) [#22]
Infact I'm bored of PC Programming. I've been thinking about this for a while. I'm switching to Raspberry pi 3 programming instead.

I was going to test the new battery to see how long it would run the pi 3, but it's been going for 4 hours and still showing 3 lights (each light represents a third power - so near 100%). And it's 1.30am.


JoshK(Posted 2017) [#23]
What is this, 2008? Yeah, tablets are taking over the world and we're all going to type term papers on our phones!!! lol so idiotic.

PC sales are down because the hardware is good and there is no need to replace them. PC gaming has never been better. Even the entry-level integrated graphics are pretty good. My main dev machine in the office uses an integrated chipset!

"PCs are only being used for games and office work"

WHAT ELSE HAVE PCS EVER BEEN USED FOR?!!!

He even uses the ancient term "surf the web". Yeah bro, the information superhighway is putting an encyclopedia of knowledge at your fingertips! It's like a whole collection of CD-ROMs!!! Seriously, did this guy just start getting internet service for the first time or what?

I'm surprised anyone still believes it today. These people are still propagating marketing hype that the marketers themselves have even moved on from. Steve jobs is still alive and you can totally just reach out and touch Beatles songs with your fingertips! Don't get left behind or you will never catch up to the year 2006!!!

It's like you got fooled so hard that you would rather keep believing the lies than admit you were tricked.


Naughty Alien(Posted 2017) [#24]
..PC is not going anywhere..this talk happened before, and it will happen again..in main time, PC will dominate..cheers :)


cps(Posted 2017) [#25]
That's all PC's are worth?
Data logging and processing, graphic manipulation, Cad, Circuit design and simulation, analysis and projection of scientific theory, music notation, audio manipulation and recording, running algorithms of basic principles of chemistry/physics in an educational/home environment. And that's just the stuff that lay person me has dabbled with. I just can't see tablets taking on these functions. Have fun cps


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2017) [#26]

WHAT ELSE HAVE PCS EVER BEEN USED FOR?!!!



When I got my first PC, I was excited to go on the Internet, reading the Internet, chatting on IRC, watch multimedia DVDs, back then when RealPlayer was a thing, I remember watching South Park way before it came to the UK, then I had LAN parties with my mates. Listening to MP3s. Then came digital cameras came along, watching slideshows etc etc. I remember having my first printer and scanner with my first Pentium PC. Now you can just plug your tablet or use a USB stick and stick plug it into a colour printer in a photo shop or convenience store (in Japan anyway) and print away.

20 years ago, I also had a Playstation, loved it, but it could do NONE of the above. Mobile phones, smartphones weren't even a thing.

Back then, there was so much that a PC can do, and what ONLY a PC could do. You couldn't do any of this, you could do some (albeit not very well) on a Risc Acorn or Amiga. Back then PC was king, of everything.

Now it's (in my opinion of course) PCs only good for work and next gen gaming, game dev obviously.

PCs will obviously continue to be around, but no longer needed for the average person.


EdzUp MkII(Posted 2017) [#27]
Weirdly enough with the prolification of technology that can access the Internet etc everything can be done via a simple phone. Currently the only thing that can't easily is write software if that changes then the last bastion of the PC.

Yes it will happen eventually but I think it will be a while yet.


JoshK(Posted 2017) [#28]
I remember having my first printer and scanner with my first Pentium PC. Now you can just plug your tablet or use a USB stick and stick plug it into a colour printer in a photo shop or convenience store (in Japan anyway) and print away.

Oh, so you can print color photographs on paper from your tablet? Does your grandmother help you press the buttons before a Sunday afternoon of tea and scrapbooking? lol




xlsior(Posted 2017) [#29]
That graph is very deceptive -- All it shows is that tablets are now a mature market and that everyone who wants one pretty much has one.

"quarterly year-over-year growth" of 0% just means that the market is no longer increasing in size by leaps and bounds, and says absolutely nothing about how many millions of tablets are still being actively sold each year.


xlsior(Posted 2017) [#30]
That graph is very deceptive -- All it shows is that tablets are now a mature market and that everyone who wants one pretty much has one.

"quarterly year-over-year growth" of 0% just means that the market is no longer increasing in size by leaps and bounds, and says absolutely nothing about how many millions of tablets are still being actively sold each year.


Floyd(Posted 2017) [#31]
But growth is zero at the end of 2014 and is clearly headed down. A little googling shows sales haves actually dropped by a third in the last two years.

I sometimes think of getting a new PC or tablet. But what I have is more than adequate so maybe next year. At least I got a new phone.


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2017) [#32]

Does your grandmother help you press the buttons before a Sunday afternoon of tea and scrapbooking? lol



I have no idea how to even reply to that :) What is scrapbooking?


xlsior(Posted 2017) [#33]
I have no idea how to even reply to that :) What is scrapbooking?


It's a hobby for suburban soccer moms and those over 90: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrapbooking

Or for the millennials among us: off-line pinterest.


Blitzplotter(Posted 2017) [#34]
Back then, there was so much that a PC can do, and what ONLY a PC could do. You couldn't do any of this, you could do some (albeit not very well) on a Risc Acorn or Amiga. Back then PC was king, of everything.


PC's couldn't hold a candle to the resolution on my Amiga1200 on interlaced mode, aah yes, I remember plotting graphs at the turn of the century - with a program (apps didn't exist back then) written in glorious Blitz Basic 2.1 (17 years ago now... already!) in 1200 by 512 pixels. You couldn't do that with a PC unless you took out a small mortgage for a graphics card ;)


EdzUp MkII(Posted 2017) [#35]
I don't see why everyone is talking about tablets stopping yeah the actual tablets are slowing BUT combination tablets and pcs combined are moving cowards (basically laptops with touch screens etc).

It's an interesting age where slowly it's all changing and we've got to move with the times. Pcs being hulking boxes on ya desk is slowly changing now you can even get laptops with Nvidia 980s built in the big box is going to end one day with things needing convenience than time to sit with it. Big pcs are going to go the way of the hulking mainframes of the 60s and 70s.