Vertigo
Community Forums/Showcase/Vertigo
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| Hello, Wanted to share some details of a new project I'm working on - its working title is 'vertigo' - a rock climbing game.  I was doing some messing around with ragdolls, and after seeing the work Walaber was doing with powered ragdolls fancied a go myself. The climbers hand and foot holds are controlled by the player as well as the stretching up, left, right, etc.  There are no hard coded animations, but instead a list of positions which the ragdoll tries to achieve using powered joints. Had loads of fun so far - in fact these screenshots / video are a bit dated now.  Final version will have a climb editor to create your own cliffs / walls as well as different game modes like time trial, etc. Link to a short video (approx. 8mb) :- http://www.wildebeestgames.com/Vertigo/VertigoMovie1.wmv EDIT : YouTube link added :- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tT3KTdvBAGA EDIT : I should also mention that the physics are ODE using VIP3R's excellent JV-ODE wrapper - highly recommended not only for stability but comes with great after sales support ! (Cash will be fine VIP3R, to the usual address!) Any and all comments welcome, cheers, Mark |
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| Interesting! You should consider using YouTube for video though, more viewers, and no one has to download anything. EDIT: I think the movement is a little too ragdoll'ey.. Other then that you seem to be on to something. |
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| Thanks for looking :) Will add YouTube link ASAP, cheers for the advice. When you say 'ragdolley' do you mean too stilted, or too 'loose' ? I'm keen to try and get a realistic movement going on. Mark |
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| Too loose, when you grab an arm or a leg the limb seems to flail about. |
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| Ahhh I see. Yes I know what you mean. I can fine tune the 'flailing', its the motors in the limb joints working out where to place the hand / foot. Too powerful and it resembles a ninja darting from hold to hold (hmmmmm ninja climbing - a new game altogether perhaps ?) whilst too slack and it looks like he's got some sort of coordination issues (not unlike myself at times.) Thanks for the feedback, oh and Ive fired the vid onto youtube now as well. cheers Mark |
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| You should make the parts of the wall you can grab onto as a 3d extrusion, and maybe have them flare up when the mouse gets near - when the user is in 'movement' mode. |
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| i know its still early in development but......Demo? it looks really fun for some reason. also, im not sure if you can in it or not yet, but something tells me it would be really, really fun to make it fall off :)anyway, nice work, looks fun EDIT just watched the vid. You can drop him!! :D fun fun |
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| Watched the vid and checked out the screenshots. First thought: "Cool - this looks like some fun. Nice rock texture. Shame about the cube head." Apart from ole blockhead, that's looking very tasty. Tickles the same part of my brain as the likes of Stair- and Truck-Dismount. |
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| Looks very cool, but would probably need a faster version for fun arcade play. Maybe a sim mode and arcade mode? |
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| That looks very nice indeed, although as MGE says it plays a little slowly - it seems to take an age to climb anywhere. |
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| Thanks everyone. You should make the parts of the wall you can grab onto as a 3d extrusion, and maybe have them flare up when the mouse gets near - when the user is in 'movement' mode. @Plash : Spot on - yes - I'm working on extrusions for the holds. I intend to have a few different game areas, like an indoor climbing wall where you can place your own holds (like a tutorial / practice area) through to actual climbs taken from locations around the world. There will be options to have different levels of difficulty which will involve holds highlighting, as well as strength meters for limbs and hold quality with time limitations. just watched the vid. You can drop him!! :D fun fun @Jerome : Are you the type of person who enjoys watching motor sports for the crashes ? - Only joking, yeah its fun to bounce him off a few ledges ! I have some multiplayer ideas where you could have several climbers fighting it out to get to the top of the same climb. Apart from ole blockhead, that's looking very tasty. Tickles the same part of my brain as the likes of Stair- and Truck-Dismount. @LineOf7s : I know my modelling skills are lacking, but the mesh for the guy is only a placeholder at the minute. I am a big fan of the Stair and truck dismount too. Their simplicity is a strong point, so I doubt if this will be that similar gameplay wise in the end - due to the level of involvement required from the player. Looks very cool, but would probably need a faster version for fun arcade play. Maybe a sim mode and arcade mode? That looks very nice indeed, although as MGE says it plays a little slowly - it seems to take an age to climb anywhere. @MGE and Vorderman : Yeah it is pretty slow - just like my reflexes as I get older. I find myself these days moving towards a different sort of game as I get on a bit. Gone is quake and instead there's Bus Simulator (only joking). Agreed there needs to be an arcade type mode. I was thinking of those revolving walls with grips on (like a vertical conveyor belt) where no matter how long you climb for, you are only ever two feet off the floor. The belt could get faster and faster and it would become a reaction game instead of planning so much. I'll put up a playable demo soon for a more hands on (no pun intended) try of the mechanics. Thanks again for looking, Mark |
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| Reminded me of this as soon as I saw it :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJAEmOtLZHg VERY COOL Mark! |
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| Interesting idea! |
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| For arcade mode, you could just click on a mountain section and the player would attempt to climb there on it's own. Kind of climbing from point A to point B on it's own. However, rocks are falling, maybe other hazards are happening, causing the player to click elsewhere for the player to climb to. Places to hide during a rock fall, etc. You could even have different parts on the body which would be clicked on to trigger certain movements. Click on the lower back or butt to trigger a "leap", click on the upper body to move faster, lower body to move slower, etc, etc. Very cool concept, you could do alot with this! |
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| this look very cool and interesting. it reminds me of something i believe it was Warpy did years ago, pretty much the exact same idea but his was 2d ( i think it was done in blitz2d if i'm not mistaken) anyway keep up the good work, looking forward to seeing this progress. |
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| This is really neat. You need to give the hands much less friction than the feet, so they can fall. In reality you don't really use your arms to pull yourself up, you only keep your fingers on the face to hold your body away from the rock. If you don't keep your toes at about 90 degrees from the face, you will lose traction and fall. Your fingers won't hold you on there. |
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| Nice! Well, let's just say you try to use your legs instead of your arms whenever it's possible but this very much depends on the wall/mountain your climbing, the handles you can use and your experience. Beside of climbing i also wrote a couple of climbing games, action, strategy and one with physics. I have a very old 2d shockwave climbing game (no physics) online. ;O) Climb up as fast as you can and make usage of the structure of the mountain, some things which are falling down a good to get because they speed you up, some are bad and so you better hide and press yourself against the wall. A simple game with a few levels which needs the shockwave player beeing installed. -> http://www.marune.de/spiele/gipfelstuermer/gipfel.exe |
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| Looks great. You mentioned ninja climbing... what about a game mode where you are being chased by an evil climber, you have to climb as fast as possible - and if he catches up with you, aaarhhhhhhhh... ;) It would be exciting to see the computer controlled climber try to make his way towards you. But you probably have a lot of ideas yourself already, good luck with this! |
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| Brilliant idea! Congrats! I'm sure this will lead to something very unique. (assuming that I somehow didn't missed similar things again, but it sure feels ingenius!) In interesting mode could be actually a little more arcade like, but imagine this: - you could highlight handles with keys. For example you'd select a limb (left/right hand, left/right foot), then you could use arrow keys to select neighboring handles. In the meantime you could use the mouse to shift the weight to get to the handle properly! Could be a fast pace, too. (key_a = left hand, key_s = right hand, key_z = left foot, key_x = right foot) They'd be color coded, too. Anyway... very, very inspiring and something to wait for with anticipation! Congrats! |
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| This is a really original idea, wow Looks cool. Good luck with it. |
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| Hi, Firstly thank you for all your encouraging comments. I appreciate you taking the time to look. @Stayne : I like the way the windows open and close on that old game - although the way this game is shaping up the difficulty level is high enough without having people chuck stuff at you. Click on the lower back or butt to trigger a "leap", click on the upper body to move faster, lower body to move slower, etc, For example you'd select a limb (left/right hand, left/right foot), then you could use arrow keys to select neighboring handles. In the meantime you could use the mouse to shift the weight to get to the handle properly! @MGE and Taron : Nice ideas, I already have hotkeys (w,a,s and d) for throwing the little guys weight around and you can either pre-select a limb or just a hold and the nearest one moves to it. Its hard to describe but it feels natural somehow, and you can quickly get a smooth flowing action going on (ooo-err missus). You need to give the hands much less friction than the feet, so they can fall. @Leadwerks : I have the friction set way down so the limbs don't get hung up on the climbing surface. When a limb attains a hold a temporary joint is created with motor limits and feedback enabled. Each physics cycle i check the forces on the joint to see how much strength to 'sap' and whether the limb should let go. it reminds me of something i believe it was Warpy did years ago, pretty much the exact same idea but his was 2d @KingNothing : Ive had a hunt around for this but drawn a blank any ideas where I might find it ? A couple of newer screenshots showing the pre-selectable limbs and tiredness indicators. Resting a limb regains its strength but tire it too often and your stamina falls. Thinking of a career mode as well now, where the climber becomes stronger and more agile with each completed climb. Ive re-worked the hold system as well. Holds are no longer indicated as little rings, they are 'painted' onto the climbing surface texture so that you can have areas as well as points to grab onto.    And a couple of captures showing how the hold layer can be faded in and out to give the player choices between 'hardcore' and 'easy' climbing modes.    Ive also uploaded a new video showing some of the newer features - although things have changed quite a bit since this was done (as always!) Download :- (approx 5mb) http://www.wildebeestgames.com/Vertigo/VertigoMovie2.wmv Youtube :- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qJVYpQAjgzc thanks for looking, cheers, Mark |
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| Ive had a hunt around for this but drawn a blank any ideas where I might find it ? its old like from 2002, i found 2 files among all the demo/example blitz code that i have collected over the years: climbing climing1 (an updated version) i quickly skimmed through Warpy's website listed in his profile http://www.somethingorotherwhatever.com/ but i didn't see it unless he changed the name. i emailed him and if it's ok with him i'll make it available for you to download. btw i think i'm actually getting a little excited to check out a demo of this, it's looking great and i love the concept. |
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| I agree, this could be a runaway hit. You just need to make sure it's "fun". For sure add a realistic sim mode, but to get the masses it has to be fun, easy to play, etc. This is really looking very, very slick. |
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| I would add a rope, just for an extra nice physics thing. The rock definitely needs bumpmapping, and it will make it easier to see the contours. You might want to use more of an inclined slope, because the way he leans back and holds himself by gripping to the rock is unrealistic, and it would look better at an angle. Keep the toes pointed into the rock if you can. |
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| So unique! Perhaps to add more fun to the game, add some form of sponsors (looking to put your name/picture on their products, haha, anything) in order to purchase tools (rope, as said, climbing boots, and so on), or character upgrades (strength, speed, etc). Maybe even a 'slow-motion' arcade mode, in mountains requiring the player to actually jump from one part of a cliff to another (spacebar w/ directional aiming with mouse?), and requiring that you move the arms and legs into place as the slow motion is in effect before the user reaches the jump-to point. Definitely looks like it has a lot of potential, good luck. |
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| Your "hold map" should be a gradient, so there are weak and strong areas. |
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| Very few games capture my interest these days, but this is one of them. Original and I can also imagine it being very addictive. Regarding speed of climb. I actually liked the speed. I wounder how fast you would climb in real-life. If you don't want to fall then its a case of safe and not sorry. Looking forwards to playing this myself at some time in the future. |
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| Using ice picks to climb a wall of ice and snow would be cool. Maybe weather effects that affect the game play, gusts of wind, slippery rocks when wet etc |
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| here is the link to Warpy's ver of the mountain climbing game: link removed now available on Warpy's site see below. |
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| Climbing. I can't wait to boot into windows to play this again, it was a fun game. I've never remade it in blitzmax because that is not how I roll. Vertigo looks like the proper fulfilment of my idea though, so well done mark! EDIT: .exe added to zip for people who don't have bb2d. |
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| This rocks! (har har) As an amateur indoor climber it's nice to see a slightly realistic approach to the whole climbing thing. It's been an annoyance of mine for ages and each and every game that totally ignores basic stuff like balance makes me cringe. Anyway, totally awesome. I really, really love the way you're able let let your arms rest and I think the character positions are fairly close to reality. The way the feet move and turn and how he (she?) hangs on. I wonder how your system would hold up when climbing overhanging pieces. The helmet looks a bit silly to me, but it might be an outdoor climbing thing. Do you climb yourself? Also, this guy is an amazing climber: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=chris+sharma&search_type=&aq=0&oq=chris+sh , maybe you can "borrow" some of his behavior such as the way he inspects his route etc. Keep it going, I want to play this :) |
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| i cant wait for the demo! it looks really fun! |
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| Hi All, Added a new youtube clip showing some progress :- http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VPhREBBc-Mw Happy New Year Mark |
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| Woah, great improvements! |
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| Yup, I'm pretty darn sure you're having a winner here! Congrats already! |
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| Excellent!! Looking forward to having a go. I'm assuming the colour of the holding points have a bearing on gameplay? Not sure if this has been mentioned before but overhangs (ala Cliffhanger ) would be nice. |
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| amazing!! can't wait for the demo! great work! :) |
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| hmm... doesn't look "fun" anymore. Looks more sim like. Which is probably a good thing for those who will enjoy the more realistic approach. But I would strongly suggest letting alot of "non rock climber" peeps beta test this to see how they gage the fun factor. If possible I would try to have 2 modes, arcade and sim. Plus it's getting a "lego" look, which I have no idea if that is good or bad. But in any event, a very original concept. I'd even say it has a chance for an indie award at the end of the year!! :) |
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| i still think it looks great, and i like the man made stuctures, but i hope theres still mountains to climb. i've never done any kind of climbing, but i personally think if its more sim like than that would be cool but i agree with MGE that if you are goiing the sim like approach, than maybe add an arcade mode as well, then you'll have the best of both worlds and simmers and arcaders alike would/should be happy. anway keep up the great work, and oh i've never really been one to bug about such things but serioulsy how long approx. do you think before a demo/public beta? i really want to check this out. |
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| I think it would be a good idea to have keys that select the arm or leg to move. That way you could quickly switch limbs (keypress) and select hand/foot holds (mouse click). The necessity of click the arm/leg slows it down quite a bit. And I noticed you had a hard time selecting the arm once when it was dangling. |
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| Wow! I share teh same reactions as everyone else. It looks really fun to play, and easy to control! One thing to point out though, is that when you are rock climbing you don't just have the luxury of clicking a place very easily and pulling your self up magically when in stressfull situations. How are you going to make it more "challenging" to reach harder spots? You def need to do some more arcade bits aswell as people suggest. What about challenge modes where you have to collect all the tokens on a course. How about combo's for successfully climbing in a chain, and in a correct manner. How about adrenline boost for climbing in a certain way. Could be used as a skill. Player needs to reach a really hard spot to climb, they build up with a good string of steps, giving them an adrenaline boost and making it easier for them to take on the hard bit. Naturally would have to be balanced. looks awesome, keep it up! |
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| Looks really good and has lots of scope. I can see this one climbing the charts (**groan**) Taking a look at the YouTube clips there are lots of nice ideas for textures, structures to climb etc .. For additional controls how about allowing the mouse wheel to cycle through the limbs? Other 'arcade' ideas ++ Limited time to reach the top. If you don't make it the rope breaks!! ++ Spots with collectibles such as energy boosters |
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| For some reason I see a single mouse with no clicks being a possibility. Move the mouse left/upward, left hand grabs, right foot presses, move the mouse right/upward the right hand grabs/left foot presses, kind of a rocking motion to get the player climbing automatically. In this mode, you could do races, avoid falling rocks, birds, snow, etc, etc. ? |
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| I think dual analogue pads would be perfect for this. By default you control the arms, hold a shoulder button to control the legs. Simple and intuative - shame not many folk seem to use them. |
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| But then, how would you select the hand hold you want? You don't want to just grab the closest one in the direction. |
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| Eh? Clearly you would use the left stick for the left hand and right for right hand. Same for feet. |
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| So, did you sell your idea to nintendo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIbyRCGIso) or do they coincidentally come up with the same idea? :) by the way, your climbing game looks much, much nicer than the crap nintendo showed. |
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| Wow... thats exactly the same thing... |
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| This is quite the situation for the OP. If he didn't sell the rights, then once his version goes live it might be difficult to prove his idea was first, etc. Nintendo might try to shut it down being a new property for them. !@$#$%^ |
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| oh the corruptness of the buisness world! it seems as though this forum is being watched by some or a lot of people with little respect for other people's ideas. It seemed like a very unique concept although it is very unlikely but still possible that nintendo thought of this idea at the same time and just got the job done faster. |
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| why did they go all the way to russia to get the rights for tetris? strange |
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| It's very likely that they invented it again independently. As we've discussed, I had pretty much the same idea a couple of years ago, and a few days ago I saw the same thing again in an old indie games showcase. |
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| "...This is quite the situation for the OP. If he didn't sell the rights, then once his version goes live it might be difficult to prove his idea was first, etc. Nintendo might try to shut it down being a new property for them. !@$#$%^ ...." +1000. David Vs Goliath. David will win. JP |
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| didn't think you could copyright/patent software - not in the UK anyway. I believe you can in the US but seems like a job creation scheme for the patenting departments. |
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| You can't patent ideas or game rules, so I don't see anyone suing anyone here. It's jut two games about rock climbing that happen to have been made around the same time. How many WWII themed FPS games came out last year? That said, I think Mark's take on it looks more fun than Nintendos. |
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| Nor... it should be okay... look at golf's swing meter thing.. It was only since Tiger Woods that the gameplay changed slightly using trueshot (or whatever), everything prior was clicky to a meter! I wouldnt worry. Looks magic BTW! ;) Dabz |
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| You can't patent ideas or game rules, But people have patented implementations -- for example: Selecting squads in a game: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0215981.html there's other patents on things like displaying health bars over the head of a character, patents on certain interface behaviour, etc. Few if any of these ever get enforced, but unfortunately there are a ton of them out there, which could suck for small developers. (Nintendo would likely be violating a ton of patents in their games, but it's unlikely that E.A. would ever sue them for breaking any, because more than likely E.A. is also breaking a ton of Nintendo's patents in return. Kind of a mutually-assured-destruction. Just sucks to be the little guy in the mix. :-/ |
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| This looks awesome and original. Great work! |
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| Whoa. I've been reading this thread and being very unexcited by whats going on. Then i watched your video. Dam, that's impressive stuff! |
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| Howdy all - where do I start ? Firstly, sorry for not taking part for so long - my HDD died and to cut a long story short I've wound up with a new PC - persuading the bank manager took a little while so I've been out of circulation for a bit. Secondly, the Nintendo coincidence is a just that - a coincidence - and I'm happy enough developing my own little title since I think it differs from anyone elses fairly significantly. Thirdly, thanks again for the positive comments - its a real motivator when things are not going quite as well as they might. Lastly, I've been talking to some prospective sponsors for the game, kit manufacturers and the like, and things are looking promising on that front, so I'm hoping to have a (branded) demo out soon. cheers, Mark |
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