How can I improve the gameplay of this:

Community Forums/Showcase/How can I improve the gameplay of this:

Matty(Posted 2007) [#1]
Hello, (blitz showcase was the only forum section I could think of that this fitted into?)

I've been working on this game for a while - it is yet another 'dungeon bash'. The main character (single player) can attack in 3 ways - with sword, with bow, or with magic. Each of those 'skills' improves with successful use, also their max hitpoint total increases based on their skill in those 3 areas with melee contributing more than ranged which in turn contributes more than magic.

I've been debating whether to go down the gauntlet route - maze like levels with treasure/goodies/exits and the object being basically to go as far into the dungeon as possible or to go down another route which is to simply have the game revolve around significant encounters - basically boss levels all the way through, with less levels the gauntlet clone but hopefully much more interesting ones. I am fairly confident I will take the second option.

The problem is that the gameplay is not that great. It plays in realtime which could be an issue for the following reasons -

1. Player has no time to think about the actions they wish to take
2. If the player is better than the opponents in melee they just stand where they are and fight with their back to the wall, if the player is worse in melee they simply run around in circles evading the enemy and taking potshots at them when opportunity arises. Magic (ie lightning strikes) seems balanced enough as the player gets limited number of attacks per level based on their skill in magic.

I'm wondering - do I go for the action style gameplay mechanic (which I don't think works with a mouse very well) or perhaps should I go down the turn based route allowing the player to plan out their attacks - which would also mean I could get away with having more attack modes/defense modes/spells and the like.

So - what would you do if you wanted to make a game like this fun?



Anyway - here is a screenshot and a movie (30seconds taken with fraps) of some gameplay:




http://home.people.net.au/~Matthew.Lloyd/lloyd/Stuff/GameMovie.wmv

(1.3MB)

Thanks,

Matt


Pongo(Posted 2007) [#2]
Deciding if you want to go the action route or turn based really comes down to what kind of game you want to make. I will say that Diablo is pretty near the top of my all time great games list, and that (action) formula is a winner to me.

Sounds like the gameplay just needs a different AI for the enemies. Try looking into something that gets them to flock towards the player, even walking around obstacles/other bad guys.

Video looks good from what I can see, but I would say the character is moving too slowly. It looks like he is trudging through some thick mud. I'm guessing that FRAPS might have slowed your framerate down, but I'm talking about how the feet contact with the ground. For that animation, my guess would be the character needs to move at least 50% faster.


Matty(Posted 2007) [#3]
Thanks Pongo, I'm thinking I'll stick with the more action oriented route. Changing either the animation speed or the movement speed is easy enough and I'll play around with that some more.

One of the other bits I struggle with is coming up with ideas for the levels.


Who was John Galt?(Posted 2007) [#4]
For once someone is asking the right question on the showcase! It's all about the gameplay!

I agree with everything Pongo said. The thing that killed Gauntlet for me was the neverending lives. It made trying to evade baddies pointless, so you definitely need limited life, but with save or regeneration points so it's not too infuriating. If you can, combine the open sprawling design of Gauntlet (not never-ending, but big) with occasional bosses and tasks you have to complete.


Matty(Posted 2007) [#5]
Regarding the never ending lives: the player character in my game has limited hitpoints although currently when he dies I respawn him at the level start and his earned experience is reset to what it was at the start of the level. This allows the player to keep trying the level although rewards the player for doing so without dying as they get to keep a lot more experience points.

Once I've got a few levels together I'll post a demo and hopefully get some more feedback on how to make it 'more fun'.

Oh..regarding the animation being too slow/fast for movement - that was my mistake with my timing code, I hadn't implemented it properly, it is fixed now.


Buggy(Posted 2007) [#6]
On the video:

I agree with Pongo, it looks like the character (and also the enemies) are going way too slow. Watch the video again, from the perspectives of "what would I do if I were the character?" and "what would I do if I were one of those enemies?" In addition to not walking slowly, I don't think you'd swing blindly at the air. It's okay to have the player dodge, but maybe make it so that the enemy only swings if the player's right in front of them, and that they have a much faster swing as well?

On general gameplay/level design:

Take my advice with a grain of salt, as I've never even developed a game close to as far as that video was, but I've done lots of simulations and things, and I think that it'd be really fun if enemies behaved in different manners. Some could flock around the player like they're sort of doing already in the movie, but some can go around the long way, and others could maybe be faster and hit-and-run, or stay back and used ranged attacks. I think that changing enemy stats (speed, for example), would greatly increase the variance in behavior and overall awesomeness.

Keep it up, though. It looks great!


Chad(Posted 2007) [#7]
It looks good but I agree with everyone's opinions about it. Take them seriously and try to fix it.


IPete2(Posted 2007) [#8]
Looking great so far!

I agree particularly with Buggy, give these npc's some character, make some move more quickly, some behave more like cowards, some dive in hit and run, some just onslaught you. Also give them a variety of distance to stop and think about how they would attack, enemies should appear to have some intelligance, not just zombie walk towards you. You have different sized characters and some have more armour on, how would these differences make them move and attack/defend themselves in the real world?

How scary is your main character? Perhaps when he uses magic for the first time, the enemies could react to it, and then react less and less the more you use it, until eventually tehy don't really seem too worried about it.

If you point your bow at them perhaps they try to dodge your view?

These kinds of details are not too difficult to employ code wise, but will make the game seem far more alives, rather than like a fixed set of animations all working at one speed.

I hope that makes sense, it really does look fantastic so far btw.

As for levels, well draw on your imagination more. What would scare you? If you could introduce any single landscape feature which would impress you what would it be? Have you thought about having different light levels across the levels to make it more difficult to make progress in some areas? Used carefully you could greatly increase the atmosphere using light and sound.

Design wise, you need to make use of the space on screen, in height as well as NSEW directions. Making characters work for their treasure by thinking about how will I get from here to that high ledge etc may inspire you a little.

IPete2.


Matty(Posted 2007) [#9]
Thanks for the useful feedback. I'm kind of at the stage where the code does most of the important things and is easy to chop/change/add stuff as needed but the real issue I've got to decide for myself is what sort of game I want to make. One of the larger factors in deciding this is determining how much time/energy I'm willing to spend on it and what I could realistically achieve in the time frame I decide upon.

All of your comments are valid, and will be considered but my main problem is that I don't really know what I'm making. One minute I'm thinking a treasure hunting/maze game like Gauntlet, the next I'm thinking a cut down mini-rpg like the old Sierra game Heros Quest (Quest For Glory 1). Important point - I'm not making this to sell, just as hopefully something I find fun to play and other people (if I release it on the internet) do as well. My strengths don't reside so much in the game design/level design field - I can write code and render nice characters (thank you Poser & Daz3D).

People have commented at times (jokingly) that we need a "creategame()" command - well I want a "give_me_a_game_idea_and_create_it_and_preferably_one_I_enjoy_playing()" command.

I actually have different scripts for the AI although they currently all behave very similarly. But then not all the AI units were shown here, and those that were not in all situations.

Thanks for your ideas, very helpful.

Matt


EDIT - Just purchased Diablo 2, hopefully I may get some furthe ideas.