Bad, Bad Bots! - Demo Released (beta v60)
Community Forums/Showcase/Bad, Bad Bots! - Demo Released (beta v60)
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| EDIT: Updated to v68. See notes below Here is the first demo release of my game 'Bad, Bad Bots!' (beta v60) Download the 'Bad,Bad Bots!' demo. (17 meg)  If I set this up right, you should lose at least an hour to this game demo. There's 9 quick tutorial levels then 9 regular levels that get more challenging as you go along. Going as fast as I can, it takes me over 20 minutes to go through the whole demo... and I already know the solutions. :) Most of the requested issues with gameplay have been addressed. But there's still lots of cosmetic things to take care of. For example: if you see a robot completely freeze it means that particular animation is still missing. So have at it! And let me know what's fun and what isn't. |
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| @Dustin Fantastic dude - I can't wait to play it... I shall have to download this later and play it over the weekend - unfortunately some urgent work has just dropped on my desk! [sods law huh!] IPete2. |
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| You've got a feedback mail... :o) |
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| excellent m8 really cool and smooth shame the levels arnt in a easy order kept getting selection screen when really just needed a next level option |
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| @IPete2 - understood. I hate when work gets in the way of my playtime! @Grisu - thanks & responded. @Duckstab. Couldn't agree more. The menu system is just thrown together. The GUI still has a ways to go. When it's fully built out you'll be able to select the next level without returning to the selection screen. So, how about some feedback on the levels? Which ones do you like/ dislike? How long are the levels taking to complete, in particular the latter levels? |
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| Revision: Download the 'Bad,Bad Bots!' demo. (17 meg) Someone pointed out that the 'level select' menu was confusing. So I placed all 18 levels on one screen. If you have v60 then click the left or arrow key to toggle between tutorial & sample levels. I also added an 1280x960 resolution option. |
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| Thanks for the update. In my opinion the new selection menu is even more confusing. I really like the multiple page solution. It's good to see what is an easy tutorial level and real demo level. What would be nice if you could number or name the levels on the selection screen. Fewer levels on one screen means, the "preview window" is much bigger. Another way to go might be making a submenu. 1. Start Game 2. Tutorial (9) Demo Levels (9) Bots World (18) Bots Bot City (18) 3. Preview of one level Name Number Pic <- Arrows to select -> In addition: How about giving the tutorial levels and the demo levels a different background color/ backgroundimage? This way you could tell by seeing a level that it is from a different package. Also the levels won't look "the same" what is good too. P.S.: Already have spent around 1 hour on the game. I haven't solved all puzzles yet. That brings up another idea of mine. How about "making" the levels as "solved" with a sticker on the selection screen? It would be nice to know what levels the user has done already. |
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| re: Beta 64 Hey Dustin, this is a *great* piece of work! Lovely animations of nicely designed characters, and a great puzzle-type game. I've found it quite addictive--probably as much because of the excellent look of the game as the gameplay itself. By the way, what were the characters modelled/animated in? Anyway, I have found a gameplay problem. I've been playing the level in the bottom left corner of the levels selection menu. Timing is the key, and it's very very tight. I can solve this level as I'm sure it was intended with my resolution set to 800x600. However, if I crank the resolution up to the highest setting, it becomes impossible. I lose framerate, of course, but it's not terrible. The character movements feel consistent, but in the higher resolution I can no longer get into that first hiding place in time. Re: level selection menu. I'd suggest numbering the levels. Multiple pages makes sense, but maybe a smoothly scrollable area with all levels would be better--so you can fit in as many levels as you or anyone else cares to design. I would imagine that eventually you'll make it so the levels must be solved in order; as you solve levels they're unlocked, and can then be re-played at any time. However, for testing purposes the current setup is preferable. |
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| EDIT: corrected text to "4th regular level" @Grisu - I'll add a feature that shows when a level is completed. As for splitting the levels into multiple screens, that will happen but not at the moment. I'll try to add text showing level name and type but right now the focus is sound. Don't worry, this menu is just temp and the proper menu system will be filled with bells & whistles. @Barliesque - Thanks for the kind words. All the modeling and animation was done in Lightwave. Two suggestions for your problem with the 4th regular level: 1) if you're having frame issues at higher resolutions then the videocard is probably running out of ram (textures aren't optimized yet). Try switching the bit depth from 32 to 16. It'll knock down the RAM usage a lot. Using this trick on that level with my Riva TNT 2 card at 1280x960 I saw frame rates go from 18FPS to 35FPS. Not bad for a 10 year old card!!! 2) You can 'buffer' your next move with the keyboard. Example: hold down the left arrow key to go left. After you start moving then hold down the up arrow key. Because the up arrow was pressed most recently it will take priority when you reach a 'crossroad'. In your case by buffering the 'up' key the player will go into hiding as soon as is possible. This is a great way to cut corners and get from place to place as quickly as possible! |
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| Revision: Download the 'Bad,Bad Bots!' demo. (17 meg) Fixed a crash error which happens when a robot attacks the player while in front of a fan. |
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| Good stuff man, I like it. Needs sound and a level editor. |
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| 1) if you're having frame issues at higher resolutions then the videocard is probably running out of ram (textures aren't optimized yet). No, I'm not having frame rate issues. The fps is resting at a perfectly acceptable 30-ish. The problem is that this fluctuation in the frame rate appears to be causing a very subtle change in the timing of the game. 2) You can 'buffer' your next move with the keyboard. Example: hold down the left arrow key to go left. After you start moving then hold down the up arrow key. Because the up arrow was pressed most recently it will take priority when you reach a 'crossroad'. In your case by buffering the 'up' key the player will go into hiding as soon as is possible. This is a great way to cut corners and get from place to place as quickly as possible! I know---I'm already doing that. With the change of timing, I believe that this level becomes technically impossible to solve because something is timing out differently than when the level was designed. |
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| I agree, the timing is very deadly, even frustrating sometimes. ;) Will there be a level editor? |
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By the way, this is the level I was testing with... The higher the resolution setting (and thus the slower the frame rate), the less margin there is to get where you need to be to solve the puzzle. And at 1600x1200 that margin runs out, and this level is not possible. You really need to aim for total consistency of gameplay. Are you using a delta-time formula to advance animations? If so, it seems to be losing some precision. |
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| Looks great, but I couldn't actually beat some levels, like the one above. I have no idea how to do it. One thing to note, the mouse over on the buttons is wrong, seems to be the button activates when the tip of the mouse is above it, and when you go just under the button, the next one activates. Same with left and right. Some kind of mid handle issue? |
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| This is why I tossed the beta to you guys. Good feedback all around guys! Big thanks. @PCD Guy - >Needs sound and a level editor. Working on setting up the sound currently (have some great help on music & sound). I made a level editor and use it to build the levels. I will release it with the full version so you can make tons more as well as play other user-made levels. @Barliesque- >fluctuation in the frame rate appears to be causing a very subtle change in the timing of the game. -Guess what? You're dead right!!! I spent a ton of time yesterday investigating why my delta timing was letting me down and I found it. The entities need a speedfactor attached to their movements to compensate for when the frame rate takes a nose dive. I'll put that in to effect so ALL puzzles will run 100% the same on ALL machines, even when they're running at 3FPS. :) Great find! Thanks! @Grisu- >the timing is very deadly, even frustrating sometimes -I was shooting for 'challenging' hard not 'pound your forehead on the keyboard in frustration' hard. I'll ease up on the timers to give a little more breathing room. Were there particular levels that gave you the most grief? And, yep, the level editor will be included in the full version. @Grey Alien- >couldn't actually beat some levels, like the one above. I have no idea how to do it -[/hintmode on]the 'trick' here is to get them together.Stand next to the door to get them to move as a group. It's easier to dodge them when they're side by side.[/hintmode off] > the mouse over on the buttons is wrong -Busted. I had some quirks with my GUI plugin when I had just the mouse tip active. I got lazy and just made the whole mouse active. I'll add better collision to the gui buttons and make just the mouse tip active again. :) |
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I'm having timing problems with this one here: I manage to get past the lasers and past the bot. But I can't "cage" him and run back to the sealed door in time (the one on top in the picture). 1280x980... should try it on a lower res. :) P.S.: Is it possible to add an option to enable AA for the gfxs? |
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That part is easy once you discover the 'pump fake': The trick is to go up and wait for him to come up. When he starts going up, go back down. Once he starts to follow you back down THEN you have time to get by him. |
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| dustin, ah thanks for the tip. I was thinking the other day that too many C64 etc games were too hard, and that modern games need to be easier to give the player a sense of progression. As you are developing the game you may feel that it's easy as you know all the tricks but we don't of course. Something to bear in mind when making the final levels :-) Also this game in a way reminds me off Professor Fizzwizzle, which also has a neat cheat mode where it "plays" the solution for you (you can interrupt it if you don't want to see it all). this would be INVALUABLE in your game and avoid people not playing any more due to frustration... (you can thank me when you've sold a million copies ;-) |
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| I'll put that in to effect so ALL puzzles will run 100% the same on ALL machines, even when they're running at 3FPS. :) Great find! Thanks! Hurrah! :) How about taking a poll for each of the levels, with each of us testers rating the difficulty of a level 1 (easy) to 5 (hard) ...then you can put your levels in order from easiest to hardest, based on the survey. @Grisu, Grey Alien, and others: ...but everyone should really hold off on announcing how difficult a level is until Dustin fixes the delta timing issue. As I say above, levels he's designed to be solvable may not be solvable on your machine, depending on graphics performance. |
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| @Grisu - I did some AA tests on some machines and the results were very eratic. It would be nice to include but I don't think B3D's AA is the most reliable. @Grey Alien- Funny you should mention the ol' C64. Part of my initial inspiration was the C64 game 'Castles of Dr. Creep' with more trap elements and *slightly* better graphics. :) As for the 'cheat mode'- way ahead of you there. The full version will have that autoplay feature where you can reveal the puzzle in real time and take over whenever you want. But that will have to wait until I get the mouse control plugged back in (yes, I mean mouse control for gameplay!) and finish the recording system. @Barliesque- I would love some feedback as to what people feel the order should be for the nine regular levels. And while I agree it would be better to wait until I get the delta issue nailed down the problem is time is not on my side. I need to get my inital beta turned in to the IGF by this coming Friday. So I could actually use the feedback as soon as possible. As you suggested: rank the 9 regular levels on the scale of 1(easy) to 5(hard) |
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| Dustin: Top idea, real time reply (like fizzwhizzle) + interrupt = radical. + mouse control = essential for casual audience. Question is, can you attract casual audience to a 3D space game anyway? |
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1. Mission impossible! I know the technique, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get past him on my fast AMD dual core cpu... ;( Also the laser by the ? would be still in my way to the exit. 2. Small request. Add an app title to your game. When you tab out of it, the taskbar remains empty. |
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| Nope. It's mission *very* possible. Here are solution videos for levels 4-9:       Note: in the video of level 6 you'll see that I moved the top left pieces over one space. Killing a bypass exploit that I had missed. This revised version will be in the next release. |
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| Thanks for the solutions, but I tell you what, some of them were just too complex/tight for me to work out...maybe I'm just dumb/slow...;-) |
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| No worries. Levels 3-6 are from the 'medium' difficulty section. And levels 7-9 are from the 'hard' difficulty. There'll be tons more levels that won't be this challenging. Not to mention user made levels. Chances are I'll probably ease up the difficulty after a little more testing. |
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| Thanks for the solution though I still can't get past this bot. Could you add an ingame solution display?!? |
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| Beta version 68 Revision: Download the 'Bad,Bad Bots!' demo. (17 meg) Tons of changes!!! The key thing: I've pulled back on the difficulty on harder levels. For example...  I set it up so that there's tons of time between when the energy beams go off & come back on. Also, I added an additional set of ladders to make it even easier to 'fake out' the bot and get past him. Also, on the 'level select' screen it now keeps track of completed levels:  And there's a 'controls' screen for those that don't feel like reading the 'readme' file:  Here's a complete breakdown of v68 changes: -revised several levels to make them more accessable. Reduced difficulty of the timing elements in the puzzles. -the level select screen now displays which levels have been completed. -changed the order of the levels to reflect the changes in difficulty. -added a screen that shows a breakdown of the controls. -revised menu interaction. -added a graphical load screen. -added names and classifications to all of the levels in the demo. Barring any major unknown issues, this is the version I'll be sending to the IGF. Then I can get back to work on adding more to the game in the following order: -sound effects & music (hope to have them in within a month) -fix delta timing issue on slower machines (within a month) -complete missing animations. -optimize textures (maybe switch to DDS) and complete other optimizations. -add proper GUI system -add more levels -add singleplayer storyline So, give this new version a try (come on, it's only 17 meg!). I think you'll find it a lot less frusterating. |
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| This is awesome, it looks very professional and its fun to play :P |
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| I have some issues: 1. In the controls menu some texts and buttons are "cut"  Also I'd love to see that the mouse isn't locked up as this is kind of irritating. 2. Texts of the last row of the level selection screen go over the OK button.  In addition I would not directly print out the difficulty setting. Instead... a) make different border selections for the types Easy = dark blue border Challenging = yellow border Hard = dark red border b) or... Change the background colors of the whole level. So also the preview pics will have a main theme color. |
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| but noone would know what those colours mean...In the end surely when playing each level will lead on to the next one without comin back to the menu. And if there is a level select menu so you can access previous levels, it will first ask you to pick Easy/Med/Hard and then show the appropriate levels? |
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| @Grisu - thanks for all the suggestions but I think you missed the fact that the current GUI is just a place holder. I just had to have something in place for the IGF submission this week. For example, the level select system is going to be something like 'Wonderland' or 'Professor Fizzwizzle' with a large map and selectable points on the map. The levels will all be properly grouped into their section based on difficulty. The cutting on the 'How to Play' page is interesting. I see you're running it @1280. I don't see that on my machines. What kind of video card are you running it on? |
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| x850xt-pe with newest Ati-Drivers at 32bit. Funny, the error also occurs at 1024, but differently:  EDIT: Set the desktop to 32 bit and the game to 16. You should see it too. |
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| Boom! There's the magic ticket. 32bit desktop with 16bit gameplay. Good find! I'll get that fixed up. |
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| Somehow this just plain reminds me of those good old days from a company called, Apogee (now 3D Realms). They were always big on games like these during their early days, that's for sure... |
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| "Bot Flambe" - So easy it should be a tutorial - 0/5 "Which Way" - 3/5 - Had me stumped for a while! "Fake-a-Bot" - 4/5 - Lots of tricky timing. Great! "Can't Beat 'em" - 2/5 "One bot, Two bot..." - 1/5 "Use 'em & Lose 'em" - 5/5 - *Almost* solved, but not quite "Whoooa!" - 5/5 - I can't seem to get started! (Maybe 6/5!) ...Like the level names! Much better than a mere number. Favorite level: "Fake-a-Bot" [EDIT] ...ahhhh, okay. I've just seen the videos for levels 8 & 9. The timing is soooo unbelievably tight on 8---I actually had most of it solved, and wouldn't have had any problem finishing, but the timing seems just impossible! So, I'd say I solved it for its intellectual puzzle, but couldn't get past the action game of it. I'd suggest one more cell of hallway for that trapped robot, to make the timing a little friendlier. Level 9... LOL! I could watch that a dozen more times and be none the wizer! Good God, man!!! That monster gets a 12/5 |
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| Hi, Really enjoyed playing BBB !! runs fine on: AMD 2400+|512RAM|GeForce 5200FX|WinXP |
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| Can't solve this level due to the timming issues: Please add an extra hideout and empty tile for me.. :) |
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| @Grisu - it looks like you're running an older version. Download v68 and I think you'll find this level a lot more do-able. Download the 'Bad,Bad Bots!' demo. (17 meg) |
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| This game looks awesome, i saw a video of it some time ago and i liked it a lot. great job. |
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Ok with 0.68 I'm stuck here: No way to get up the ladder in time. |
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| I found there was *just* enough time. When you're at that control panel to the left, with the two robots approaching you, wait until just the last moment to hit the control and then duck in the hiding place. The instant they're past, come out and get down to the controller on the right, then the left, and immediately back up the ladder. If you've already done that as tightly as that, then try restarting the program with a lower resolution, and see if you're suddenly able to do it. |
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| Well, the window of clearance should be as much as 2-3 seconds for this level. But as we now know, running the game at a higher res on an older machine (with an older video card) can cause an issue with the timing. I know how to correct the error but there's tons of code that needs tweaking. I promise that addressing the imperfections with the delta timing is a priority. The good news: I've been testing DDS textures and the video ram requirements have dropped by a massive factor which is the key cause of this problem! I've been testing it on my 5 year old laptop (P3/850 with a GeForce 2go 16 meg card). With DDS textures, the game went from a slideshow at any resolution to a silky smooth frame rate even at 1024x768!!! Combining this with the upcoming delta timing fix, all of these timing issues should become a distant memory. In the meantime... Barliesque's suggestion was dead on. A lower resolution should help. Also, try playing the level at 'full wide' by hitting the spacebar. The camera will be fixed and with less movement it might play a little better. Once again, these are all temporary workarounds. When I get everything completed none of this should be necessary. Keep in mind that it is still beta and is being created by a team of one. :) |
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| This just gets better and better. |
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| Gameplaywise, it reminds me of professor fizzwizzle. |
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| It reminds me of "The Castle of Dr. Creep", C64! |
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