VividGL - Small test
Community Forums/Showcase/VividGL - Small test
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| Yo, First simple test. The nicer one will be released tonight, didn't get to finish it with all the trolling going on in the other thread. Desk/computer models are by and (c)James Martin 2004. But this one demonstrates some basic features i *really* do need some compatiblity reports on, so it's all good. This demo uses, Vertex buffer objects(For high speed rendering) This may only be compatible on recent cards, not sure. (vivid has other high speed modes, so don't worry if this doesn't work) The demo is basically a square room(ugh!) with 30 computer entities in it. each computer has 3 monitors, and each monitor is actually displaying what you're seeing ;) Normal fps controls.(Free flight though) - Rar version. http://www.excess.eclipse.co.uk/FutureCalling.rar Zipped(Bigger file size, but SAME demo) http://www.excess.eclipse.co.uk/FutureCalling.zip The improved one I'm releasing tonight will feature some pixel shaded fx etc for those who can run it, but that stuff isn't important right now. But if anyone trolls this thread, wave goodbye to anymore public demos until vivid's release. It's not worth it. Feel free to report bugs, where's it's going wrong/suggestions etc, that's fine. Just leave the 'vapourware' this that and the other crap elsewhere. |
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| Oh, copy the .dlls in the dll folder to the same folder as 'test.exe' or system32. I wouldn't suggest system32 just yet..they're going change a lot over the coming few days. |
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| Just changed the download, I uploaded the wrong thing...take 2..;) |
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| very nice, runs very well on my crappy old Laptop. Can't wait to try it tonight on my REAL machine tonight. |
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| Any chance of a zip? |
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| Sure rob, gimme a minute. Thanks flynnx. ;) |
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| Here you go rob, same version, zipped. http://www.excess.eclipse.co.uk/FutureCalling.zip |
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| Runs fine here on the desktop. P4 2.6 Radeon 9600 128meg Not so good on my laptop though. I get a lot of white triangles and other glitches. Is there an option to save a screen shot? AthlonXP1500+ Radeon IGP320M 64meg |
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| It works here. Looking forwards to the demo you have promised for tonight. [edit]: the monitors display what I'm seeing upside down :) |
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| Mystik, nope, but if you hit print screen on your keyboard, load up paint and hit 'paste' you'll have a screenshot. It's how I took the shot up above. As for the card that doesn't work, can you please let me know the name, and which drivers you're using?(as in version) Thanks. I'm guessing it's vertex buffer objects btw. They're a fairly new addition to gl(Via extensions) (Drivers should add support btw, so there's still a chance it'll work, you might just need updated drivers.) |
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| Runs fine for me. It would be nice to know more about what's going on. A triangle count and frame rate would be useful, for instance. I am also looking forward to tonight's demo. Kudos. Athlon2.0/9700 Pro |
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| Runs well on my system (Athlon 1700XP, GeForce 4 MX 440, Windows XP home edition). To avoid confusion, I'd suggest you either shift the DLL's to the main folder, or include a README.txt file in the main folder advising the user to do this. |
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| Lt, heh, well I was too paranoid to include a fps... I dunno why..I suppose it's like it sums up your entire work on a project down into a single blanket number. That's a scary prospect ;) I'll include one tonight though, fair enough. - Axe, good point, I'll take care of it for the next one. |
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| MAV On my crappy work computer. [DX DIAG]
Card name: S3 Graphics ProSavageDDR
Manufacturer: S3 Graphics, Inc.
Chip type: S3 ProSavage DDR
DAC type: S3 SDAC
Device ID: Enum\PCI\VEN_5333&DEV_8D04&SUBSYS_8D045333&REV_00
Display Memory: 32.0 MB
Current Mode: 1024 x 768 (32 bit) (85Hz)Win XP pro... I'll try it on my computer at home this evening. |
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| To give you an idea of polycount (as I made the desk+props model) :- Each desk 'unit' including monitors etc. is about 500 polys. There are 30 desks in the scene. 30*500=15,000 polys The desk model has 6 individual textures - including the one being rendered to (the screen). Quite impressive for a preliminary test of an engine that (as some have claimed) doesn't exist ;) |
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| Lol yeah I totally forgot to credt you skitchy, have changed the original post to point out it's by you and (c)you. The new demo tonight should be a much better test guys, Firstly I'm going to use 'best' mode, which basically dynamically shifts a entities 'rendering' pipeline to whatever the card supports. Plus instead of a box we have a fully lightmapped level. And also, speed should be greatly improved, as the reason for the delay last night was I rewrote vivid's final rendering pipeline, replacing it with something called 'batches'...More on them tonight. ;) |
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| Rob F, ah the old S3. Definitely the culprit, but good news is vivid should work on it, vertex arrays/agp caches etc, should have no problem in working on even gl1.1 cards. So fingers crossed the new one will work. |
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| Not bad! |
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| Nice. Works perfectly here ( Radeon 9700 Pro ) I already had the beta so I already knew it existed, but this should dispell the myth for everyone else. |
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| The question is not it's existance, but a string of "coming soon" broken promises and hype. It bores people to tears after a while. Now he's released something, it only raises otacon's self esteem. It doesn't shut people up nor impress them (so far). |
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| Looks ok. |
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| The question is not it's existance, but a string of "coming soon" broken promises and hype. It bores people to tears after a while. Now he's released something, it only raises otacon's self esteem. It doesn't shut people up nor impress them (so far). It will take a long, long time before I consider otacon to be a man of his word. Can someone either ban rob from these boards or at least my threads? Thanks. |
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| It doesn't shut people up Well, no, I didn't expect it to perform miracles. |
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| Otacon Works on my system - Athlon64, W2000, RadeonPro 9800. Noticed there was some sort of colour cycling happening on the body of the computers. Very faint - was this a lighting effect? Looking forward to seeing what this engine can do. |
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| MadJack, there's actually a light circling around the scene, so when you see it going from light to dark that's just the vertex lighting.(Which takes advantage of hardware lighting and transforms if your card supports it.) Vertex lighting will only be a fail-safe in vivid though..it's really not an acceptable form of in-game lighting anymore, imo. Thanks for trying it. |
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| Ok That's pretty quick vertex lighting compared to Blitz3d native... |
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| Octacon Runs on my laptop, although since there are no benchmarking or informational displays whatsoever I can't offer any other feedback. Visual glitches though.. looks like some triangle stripping problems and is that font at the top supposed to be alpha'd?  |
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| Ouch, that's nasty. What spec do you have on that laptop Epic? The room has no alphaing going on. It's more than likely vertex buffer objects.(I think you need at least 56 nvidia drivers, or comparable) |
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| I'm having exactly the same glitches as EpicBoy. Got a pretty old card in here at the moment though (GeForce 2). Is there a screenshot of how it should look anywhere? |
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| Den, do you have post 56.00 drivers? I'm certain vertex buffer objects are 'achieved' entirely on the driver side, so in theory any geforce should work, as long as the drivers are upto-date. I'll be sure to put a pipeline selector in the new one tonight so you guys can play around with the diff modes and see what happens. |
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| That's a point. No, I don't think so. Just getting the latest ones now... Edit: Yup, that fixed it. Text is still in black boxes and the view on the monitors upside down, though; I presume that's intentional. |
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| is it me or is there a weird faint red light pass through the room? but it looks cool, wish there was a FPS counter |
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| Define wierd? the redness you see is the light's specular setting(Not it's actual color). Which is why it 'glares' instead of smoothly shifting through the hues and blues. Gl's built in specular lighting isn't that impressive. |
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| the texture on the screens is buggy here ... it is upside down *ggg* but runs nice ... lets see what the demo this evening shows ( i hope some real app not a 512x512 windowed thing :) ) |
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| Works on my 2Ghz with Geforce4 Ti (44.03 Drivers) Only thing that looks wierd is the text, white on black squares but gaps between the letters ? Don't think that's a bug just bad way to show the info maybe. |
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| Oh that's just the text system isn't blitz's but one I wrote in gl. I just need to add bitplane masking(not a bug) Dream, yeah full screen next time..;) the 512x512 thing was just so the texture could be grabbed from the screen render. Render to texture doesn't work on a lot of cards, so didn't want to cause any probs. |
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| I was just about to post some pics, but EpicBoy beat me to it. Thats what it looks like on my laptop. I know it hasn't got a top of the range card, but it does run blitz and dbp stuff ok. I have the latest drivers that are available for the laptop. Card name: RADEON IGP 320M Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc. Chip type: ATI U1 (C6) DAC type: Internal DAC(350MHz) Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4336&SUBSYS_00B00E11&REV_00 Display Memory: 64.0 MB Current Mode: 1024 x 768 (16 bit) (60Hz) Monitor: Default Monitor Monitor Max Res: Driver Name: ati2dvag.dll Driver Version: 6.13.0010.6218 (English) |
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| Octacon I have a "GeForce4 440 Go 64MB" in this laptop... |
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| worked fine on my geforce 2 |
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| Latest drivers epic? It works on ruz's g2, so it's wierd it doesn't work on a higher end geforce.. |
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| I'm not entirely sure what it is I'm supposed to be looking at. All I can say is "it works". Oh, and the display on all the monitors needs x-flipping, as its currently back to front. |
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| Octacon Not sure which drivers. Probably older ones as I never upgrade the laptop for fear of it not working anymore. It runs every other game I throw at it though... |
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| Ecpic, vertex buffer objects require nvidia drivers 53.33 or higher(for gl anyway, dx I dunno).(You probably have an early/buggy implentation of them) Vivid will work on your card too, if that's the prob, just have to use agp caches. Though you'll miss on out on fast hardware deforms without 'em. |
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| You should probably have Vivid check for that and just do whatever it needs to in order to work. |
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| Yep, plan to, also has a function to check if a card supports it. I'll put that in the new demo with a indicator, one way to be sure. |
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| I had the same problem as Epicboy -Integrated Intel graphics card circa-1999 and with another PC with the same type of graphics card circa - 2002 What Id like to see in a demo is a FPS meter and then the same scene rendered with BLITZ3D to compare the FPS. |
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| This runs very nicely for me. I'm guessing that the monitors displaying things upside-down is just a thing in the demo code... |
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| Runs fine for me. Nice start. No point in making specific comments since mostly there's a whole bunch of features you have yet to implement. |
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| Works sweet on my ati 9600 laptop running the latest drivers -omega I think -. |
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| No pb here. |
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| Nope, but I know a guy who can get you some. - Jhock, clarify that statement a little. not implented as in not in the demo, or not in vivid at all? If so, what are these features? (And it also raises a bigger question. How would you know? :)) |
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| Works nicely here! |
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| yep is fine DX9 latest dets for Radeon 9800XT P4 1gb ram |
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| It seems to work just fine on my system... |
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| Hey Otacon So when's the jucier pixel shading demo coming out? |
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| What a waste of time.. |
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| What a waste of time.. Thanks. (Adds wayne to 'people to ignore like the bionic plague' list) |
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| The Bionic Plague:A hideous disease marked by the desire to run in slow motion and make irritating 1970s style machine noises. |
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| bubonic/bionic/subsonic/gin and freakin' tonic. (Adds lt to the 'Never attempt to spell a eight letter word in this person's presence' list) |
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| Heh, heh. Bionic Plague. The only cure is to get yourself a pair of very large-lensed, gold-rimmed, amber-gradiated aviator glasses and a light blue suit with dark navy stitching and extremely large lapels. For best protection the shirt should be worn with at least the top three button undone. |
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| Bunch of yellow back sissies...;) |
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| Well i am not having any problems with the test only one thing makes me think the image in the computer screen is upside down Octacgon but elase it looks great cant wait until you sell this stuff like i am very intrested how mutch and when will it be out for sale Computer Spec 2.5Ghz P4 Dell 512mb-ram 240Mb HD Geforce4 Ti 4800 128mb 2mb internet connection |
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| 'Octacgon' You're not even trying to spell my name right are you? :) Yeah the upside down computer screen is mostly because in vivid Y 0= graphicsheight() in gl(I.e y is reversed, 2d-wise) which basically inverts everything. It's easily fixed so you guys never notice though. It'll be on sale hopefully, price will be in the range of 30 to 60 english pounds.(Not decided) |
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| You could sell the lite version for an 8th and the full version for a quarter... ;) |
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| "vertex buffer objects require nvidia drivers 53.33 or higher(for gl anyway, dx I dunno)" Umm I have 44.03 drivers and it worked fine on my Geforce Ti card ? Or am I missing something ? |
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| Hmm, well we'll see with the new demo what is and isn't compatible. Perhaps it's because Epic's was a GO varient and not the flully fledged one. Little tip, download softGL and you can softmod your nivida into it's quadro version. (Talking big speed increase..games were unplayable until I did that on mine) |
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| You could sell the lite version for an 8th and the full version for a quarter... ;) I am. ;) |
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| "Jhock, clarify that statement a little. not implented as in not in the demo, or not in vivid at all? If so, what are these features? (And it also raises a bigger question. How would you know? :))" I mean not in the demo; I have no idea what is or is not in vivid. Nor for that matter do I have any idea what your ultimate plans for vivid are, but a few examples of features I certainly hope you are planning to implement (because if you aren't vivid is kinda useless:) multitexturing multiple UV coordinates and/or lightmapping environment mapping alpha transparency animated textures animated meshes etc etc ad nauseum Also, how would stuff like collision detection or dynamic shadow casting be implemented using vivid? Is that stuff supported/going to be supported, or are people having to write stuff like that themself? Blitz internally supports the former but not the latter; IMO, for vivid to be a useful alternative renderer it needs to support at least all the features Blitz already does. |
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| Little tip, download softGL and you can softmod your nivida into it's quadro version. (Talking big speed increase..games were unplayable until I did that on mine) I'd rather just have the software that I install work. |
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| Well, rumor mill again... multitexturing Check, has hardware multi-texturing and has done for over a year.. multiple UV coordinates and/or lightmapping You can dynamically specificy how many uvsets per entity(On a per entity basic, not one overiding number), upto32 if your hardware supports it. environment mapping Well that could mean a few things in my head. Spherical mapping, cube-mapping? alpha transparency glEntityAlpha(), no diff than blitz. animated textures Not yet, never used 'em myself. animated meshes Three methods. Normal Software transforms(STill rendered in hardware, as the vertex list is updated agp side. (I.e vertex skinning), second mode, matrix palleting, very fast as all the bones are transformed in hardware. Third, vertex shader method. - Don't assume the demo above was any indication of what vivid is about. It was a compatiblity test rushed out to appease certain vocal 'anti-vites. - I'd rather just have the software that I install work. It was the first public alpha/beta/whatever test, overall it went very well. Bugs will be crushed, that is the point. The tip was just for better speed... |
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| Rumor mill? I wasn't going to be specific, but you asked me to so I did. And I specifically tried to indicate that I expect this stuff is upcoming, this was simply a first basic test. You really do go out of your way to take offense at anything less than unrestrained praise. "Check, has hardware multi-texturing and has done for over a year.. You can dynamically specificy how many uvsets per entity(On a per entity basic, not one overiding number), upto32 if your hardware supports it. glEntityAlpha(), no diff than blitz. Three methods. Normal Software transforms(STill rendered in hardware, as the vertex list is updated agp side. (I.e vertex skinning), second mode, matrix palleting, very fast as all the bones are transformed in hardware. Third, vertex shader method." Cool. Mind showing examples? I didn't see any of that stuff in the demo. I realize this was a test rushed out but I doubt it is going to appease anyone since, as you point out, it is merely a bare-bones test. Any joker can read the first couple Nehe tutorials and knock up something just as good. You'll have to make a demo showing advanced features. "Well that could mean a few things in my head. Spherical mapping, cube-mapping?" Both. After all, Blitz has both. |
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| Rumor mill? I wasn't going to be specific, but you asked me to so I did. And I specifically tried to indicate that I expect this stuff is upcoming, this was simply a first basic test. You really do go out of your way to take offense at anything less than unrestrained praise. You took it the wrong way. I don't want rumors to spread...if people saw your post and I didn't reply, they'ed most likely assume it's true...and bang goes a sale.;) As for the rest, sure, the next demo will feature some cool things, including pixel shader2.0 fx. |
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| Attempted on my laptop, MAV occurred with a funny looking y character in the top left of the window. I am guessing it is trying to run in windowed mode as that happens on my laptop sometimes when windowed mode software is run. |
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| so where's the new one? |
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| Works OK on my laptop. |
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| so where's the new one? Fashionably late? :) |
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| Not bad here on a GeForce2MX (not had a chance to try it on anything made in the past couple of years ;) ). Noticed a couple of odd colurs in places, but I wouldn't expect flawless performance on such a poor card even when Vivid's finished. Drivers are probably a bit out of date, too. My major gripe was that the mouse pointer was locked to the centre of the window, and alt+F4 wouldn't close it. It was, basically, a pain in the arse to quit. Other than that, looking good. |
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| Did you try hitting escape? |
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| No he didn't...;p As for the odd colors glenny, can you take a shot? Unless you just mean the uglyish red-tint trailing the light source. That's just a dodgy specular setting.(Bog standard gl specular, nothing fancy) |
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| What is up with people referring to a GeForce2MX as "a poor card?" Hardly top of the line, but hardly poor either. If a game came out today which didn't look right on a GeForce2MX, that game's engine has serious issues. Make sure vivid looks good on cards older than that. |
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| It's pretty old though. And the "MX" at the end isn't doing it any favors ... if I remember correctly, that basically means it's got the power of a Geforce 1. Not really all that good... Although I agree it should still be supported properly since a lot of people have those kinds of cards these days. |
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| runs fine here |
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| looks good, computer display is upside down. I like the feedback effect, very clever :) |
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| Yes, I did! I'll have a go getting a shot next time I'm at that computer. GeForce2 is a a good card, still quite useable. GeForce2MX is not, IMO. I've no problem with maintaining support for GeForce2's, but the MX edition just doesn't cut the mustard in any serious way. |
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| Still fashionably late? |
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| see the work log for the reason of the delay. Rewrote the final rendering pipeline to self-optimizing batches, and changed fx skins so each surface can have a unique shader. delayed for a good reason in other words. but it's all working again, so not long now. |
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| What is up with people referring to a GeForce2MX as "a poor card?" Hardly top of the line, but hardly poor either. If a game came out today which didn't look right on a GeForce2MX, that game's engine has serious issues. Make sure vivid looks good on cards older than that. GeForce MX cards are dead IMHO, its easy to pick up a card thats cheap. Hell I got rid of me GeForce 4 440MX and now got an Ati Radeon 9200SE 128Mb and its brilliant in me third machine (never looked back) now I dont have any MX's. Otacon: you have fired me interest in GL again :). I have been looking at it over the last few years but never really got into it. Now ive got the keyboard routines and early graphics systems done using VC++ 6 and GLUT OpenGL :) |
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| HUH? what? You realise how many of those cards are out there? literally hundreds of thousands. They are the majority as nvidia flooded them into the market. Nearly every cheap desktop made for over two years had a varient. They are far from dead. And they are perfectly capable, just quite slow (comparitively) and shaderless. NON T&L cards are dead IMHO... Hell I got rid of me GeForce 4 440MX Which has no more technical ability than a geforce 2 mx - it's only just faster, thats all... |
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| lol mx2 = GF1 mx4 = GF2 difference: mx4 knows of vertex buffers, mx2 won't and i know at least 1 game that does not run on non-shader cards with more than 10FPS: Spellforce and all new games will follow this route. as GF4 TI4200, FX5200 or Radeon 9000 etc are extremely cheap and shader capable, there is no reason why focus on software emulation if the core needs shader stuff ( for example terrain with lod basing on vertex shaders like perimeter etc ) |
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| Doesn't POP:Sands of time state that it doesn't work on geforce 4MX cards and a Geforce3 is the minimum. I think the new Thief game has a similiar spec and I no the PC version of Crazi Taxi 3 states Geforce3 or Higher (Not MX) cos I have it in front of me. Lot's of recent games are the same. |
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| The geforce mx2 isn't a geforce 1 The geforce mx4 isn't a geforce 2 from a game developer: All GeForce video cards support vertex shaders, either in software (GeForce1, 2, 2mx), in hardware (GeForce3, 4) or a mix of both (GF4MX). ... I hasten to add that the Geforce 2 GTS actually did hardware vert shaders 1.0. Although speed wise you'd be forgiven for thinking they were... nvidia are a huge joke for bringing out these. They did nothing but cash in on people's ignorance and its not a new story. |
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| MX4 is technically a modified GF2 GTS as MX2 is only a modified GF1. Both can be seen in the NVidia internal GPU declaration ( NVxx ). And yes the GF number missuse is a quite bad joke, especially on GF4 MX ( GF2MX was no that large difference, restricted pipeline power but not more ) which has no shader and nothing. They should have called it GF2 MMX or MX2 P3 and P4 have VertexShader 1.0 support but 1.0 is totally restricted and nearly useless, especially as vertex shader that streams all the time from CPU to GPU is deadly slow in real use. As far as I've heard and read so far, Shaders can't be emulated through software btw. Either hardware is able to perform it or you are out. |
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| Nvidia drivers can emulate vertex and pixel shaders in software, a g2 for example could run a g6 pixel shader. Very very slowly. |
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| Vertex Shader ... perhaps ( using CPU VertexShader capabilities ) Pixel Shader ... for sure not use the shader editor from DX SDK on a GF4MX, i can send you some FX. while some of them work, others won't because device is not capable of as the editor will tell you |
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| You need to unlock the driver's emulation mode. You can emulate any feature a future nv series supports if the driver supports it, including pixel shaders. Default, emulation is off. |
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| [url] http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=00005897&forum=3dtheory&id=-1 [/url] Someone talking about emulating a nv30 on his laptop's g4-mx.(Which he couldn't do, because it's a go version, which are the only ones (afaik) that can't emulate pixel shaders on the cpu) |
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| that has nothing to do with mx or go fact is that official nvidia drivers don't support go. but there are modded drivers ( most actual is forceware 61.XX ) that work extremely good. laptop producers with nvidia cards don't care about drivers which is quite a bad problem. ( that's why I'm happy that I have a radeon in my new laptop ) more interesting is the part that the emulator seems to emulate OpenGL but not D3D ... For all with NVidia Go Chipsets in their notebooks: http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/ no better place for drivers :) |
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| Thanks Deamora for the link. :-) |
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| Actually the mx2 is a geforce2 with half the pipes, it isn't a GF1. Where are you getting your data Dreamora? |
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| Don't suppose there's an equivalent website for people with ATI Radeon IGP cards in their laptop? I can't seem to get any updated drivers for them, and the ATI ones tell me that they can't drive my hardware, despite the readme saying they should be able to. |
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| I don't know of any modded drivers so far as ATI don't seem to block mobile chips with their drivers. I'm happy that I don't have an IGP ( my brothers compaq has one as well ... it's as useless as Intel Extreme ... ) Rob: hmm ... I have to recheck the chip listings, but GF4 MX is modified GF2 for sure. ( never had any mx2 ... only my brother and my girlfriend ... so I didn't care much about it ... nonshader is nonshader is needed to be replaced *ggg* ) |
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