Beta Demo : Anime Tennis Babes ( plz test )
Community Forums/Showcase/Beta Demo : Anime Tennis Babes ( plz test )
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| Testing, tweaking and bughunting this is becoming impractical in the extreme now, so I'm hoping releasing a beta version of the demo will help. Firstly a screenshot of the demo in action : [img]http://members.aol.com/sybixsus/tennis3.jpg[/img] Now the Demo Download! ( 8mb download. ) NOTE: Everything is copyrighted by either myself or someone else, and cannot use it. The music is by Achim Tober and is available for use in your projects from his website ( http://www.softworxs.de/ ) Instructions : It's pretty simple really. As well as your four directions, you have two buttons. Both buttons work the same way. You hold the button down to prepare for a shot and release it to swing the racket. This applies to standard shots as well as serves. Button one is the power button, and button two is the finesse button. The longer you hold down button 1, the harder you will hit the ball. Button 2 does not build up power and will always hit the ball with minimum power. This is useful for finesse shots like lobs and dropshots, as well as directing serves accurately. The direction and depth of a shot is decided by using the direction buttons while holding down one of the buttons. It should be pretty intuitive and self-explanatory really. It doesn't play shots for you. There's none of that Virtua Tennis-style hit the firebutton and it performs an amazing topspin lob automatically. In order to play great shots, you need to work a little for them. The more you practice, the better you get at pulling those off. Hopefully. What I want in Return I would appreciate it if everyone who downloads this would at least give me the following information. I'm using my own bandwidth purely because I need feedback on this now. If you have more than one computer, it would be great if you could test it on both. I'm really interested in performance on a wide range of machines so old PC's with basic 3d functionality would be interesting. 1) Your system specs : CPU, Videocard, Ram, Operating System, Controllers used, etc. 2) Basic Functionality : Does it work? Is it fast and smooth enough to be playable with the lowest settings for everything? Lowest settings are : 640x480x16 bit color. Fake Shadows and 2d Crowd must be enabled for lowest settings. Shadows are set in options. 2d Crowd is in in the inital settings menu. "I can't get it to run smooth at 1024x768 with FSAA on and soft shadows on my Intel Crapola Onboard 815" is NOT a valid answer here 3) Performance : What resolutions and detail settings can you get while keeping the game playable? For example, if you can get 1024x768 but you can only use true dynamic shadows, say that. If you can also enable soft shadows if you use 800x600, say that too. I want to know what you can make it do without crippling performance on your machine. 4) Do you like the serve marker? I'm undecided as to whether or not the serve marker makes things too easy when serving. Serves were originally just like ordinary shots, purely down to judgement. I added the serve marker when debugging and left it in there because I thought people might want it. I would appreciate some feedback on this. 5) BUGS PLEASE. I really need to find and remove any remaining bugs. If you find any, please let me know and please give as much information as possible. If you can narrow it down to "when you do this during that, and then the whotsname does this, I noticed it does that when it should do this" that would be wonderful. I realise that it's likely that any remaining bugs are going to be a bit obscure, but as much info as possible would be appreciated. 6) General Feedback. Everything else. Comments, thoughts, criticisms, preferences, improvements, etc. I'm happy to hear anything, but don't necessarily expect that I will make changes for every complaint. For example, this is not a simulation. It was never intended to be, and if it was, I wouldn't like it. It's an arcade tennis game with the emphasis on slugging it out, just like the good old days of Pro Tennis Tour on the Amiga. If you hate it because it's an arcade tennis game and you want it to be a simulation, please say so. It's valid criticism, and it does tell me something. Just don't expect me to turn the game into something I never wanted it to be. Again, as much info as you can provide here is much appreciated. I hope you like it. |
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| Edit: I originally complained about the intro being too slow (it's painfully slow), but I didn't realise you could click the mouse to skip it. I was tapping every key on the keyboard. :/ Also, when the girl fades out, you can see the eyeballs inside her head - it's pretty freaky. o_< I ran the game, it worked pretty well, very smooth. I didn't win much though, as the controls are very stiff in comparison to the likes of Virtua Tennis. However, everything was solid enough, and it was easy to get the grips with. |
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| OK, it's decent in presentation, but the gameplay needs a lot of work. Tennis Critters (which I don't think is great) is far superior with running and hitting. You need to speed up the animation to catch up with the ball when you swing like Virtua Tennis (the game automatically times the shot for when the ball gets to you). That game is totally arcade style and it's one of the best feeling games ever. I'd add mouse control to this game seriously. Tennis Critters with mouse control is actually pretty fun because it lets you run, hit, and aim your shots well. Try that game out. It's not too cool how you have to pause to hit the ball. One thing, it didn't recognize my gamepad either. I don't know if you added the joystick support but that would have been better than using the keyboard, but the mouse would probably be the best of all. I have a 1GHz Athlon, ATI Radeon 9600XT, 512MB, Win Me and it ran super smooth. I didn't even notice the serve marker, I just hit the ball. I'll play it some more and give more feedback. |
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| Sorry, I should have mentioned skipping the intro. And yeah, I noticed the eyeballs fade out last. Not sure there's much I can do about it. I don't have a joypad hooked up to test. It should use whatever's in the port. I'll check on that. Might have to buy myself something cheap to test it. I'm not sure I like the idea of mouse control. I guess I'll have to try tennis critters again and try mouse control. I really didn't like it and uninstalled it without even noticing it had mouse control. Possibly I should have mentioned, you don't have to stop moving to play a shot. If you tap the button, you can make a snapshot without any kind of backswing. You can't move during the swing because you need the direction buttons to aim the shot. The only other way I could deal with that is to keep you moving in the direction you're going at the speed you're going when you make the shot. The only problem with that is it's going to get super annoying if you slide ride past the ball because you pressed a direction to aim in marginally too soon. Might have to test that and see. One thing that annoyed me about Virtua Tennis was that it didn't punish you for totally mistiming your shot. I certainly will look and see if I can make things any smoother, but I really think you ought to have to time your shots. There's not a lot else to tennis. All good criticism so far. I appreciate it. |
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| Still testing it, but I've got to agree with this: BAN300: You need to speed up the animation to catch up with the ball when you swing like Virtua Tennis (the game automatically times the shot for when the ball gets to you). That game is totally arcade style and it's one of the best feeling games ever. More later when I've had a play with all the different options. Cheers, Ryan |
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| Oh I think I see what you mean now. Sorry, I thought you meant if you swing too early, but you mean if you swing late. Yeah, I could have a fiddle with that. but it's going to make timing ever more critical. Have you guys both tried just tapping the fire button for a snapshot? That's still not responsive enough? |
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| I play a fair amount of tennis and although timing is a part of it, I think it's more about placement, type of shot, etc. When you're any good at tennis you don't really pay attention to the timing it just happens. Unless you want to make your players feel like amateurs I'd allow them to focus more on easy to pick up strategy then on timing. |
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| Well the same applies with this game too. Once you've played it for a while, the timing is instinctive. If I dumb it down too much, I risk making the game far too easy once you get used to playing the game. Granted I need to do something to make the game more initially accessible. I've been toying with the idea of having an option you can enable or disable which will position a little target cursor to give you a rough idea of where you should position your player in order to return the ball. You could turn this on while learning and then turn it off when the positioning becomes more instinctive. Would you find this a better way to learn the game? |
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| I think its O.K. to make it difficult because then it stands out against all other tennis games. Just make the computer opponent a bit more easier. |
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| Its not bad at all. I'm doing a Tennis game too, so I won't say much as I'm obviously biased. However... * The ball physics don't feel quite right. Its more of a balloon than a ball. Too floaty? * The dancing person at the start - very nice, but what's the point? Maybe if you did away with it, or had it playing in the background on the options screen or something instead? * It seems that you can't run AND hit the ball at the same time? This is what made it difficult for me, but it was more 'annoying' than 'challenging'. Hope this helps. :) |
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| * The ball physics don't feel quite right. Its more of a balloon than a ball. Too floaty? It is on the easiest skill level, and the players do tend to hit the ball looping in the air more than on harder skill levels. The ball movement is in a pretty flat arc in harder modes. I'll have a fiddle with gravity though, see what I can do. * The dancing person at the start - very nice, but what's the point? Maybe if you did away with it, or had it playing in the background on the options screen or something instead? No point, just eye candy. There's another, even better one as a reward for people who finish the Super Cup in the final version. * It seems that you can't run AND hit the ball at the same time? This is what made it difficult for me, but it was more 'annoying' than 'challenging'. Ya, this has come up a bit. I have no fundamental objection to running and hitting the ball at the same time, but how are you going to steer the ball if the direction buttons aren't going to be used? I genuinely would like to hear a suggestion from someone who wants this, because I don't have any good ones. I could separate steering and movement controls, but that means another four keys, which is complicated for those playing on keyboard. I could move you automatically, but being moved away from where you wanted to be because my AI thinks you should take the ball longer or shorter is going to be just as irritating. If anyone has a practical way of adding it, I'd happily look at it, but I don't see one yet. |
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| You should check out TopSpin for x-box. Basically as soon as you hit the ball, the direction your pointing the pad in, determines the direction of the shot. I'll download it later and give it a wee shot :) |
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| What I've done, is allow the player to hold down a 'hit' key during running. While that key is being held down, the directional controls become 'aiming' controls AND the player continues running in that direction. Release the hitkey, and the player hits the ball in the specified direction. I've probably made it sound more complicated that in actually is - although the code was fairly nasty to write, the actual controls work very well. Unfornutately I can't show a demo version - releasing demos isn't my call to make. :/ |
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| Keep the player running in the direction and at the speed he was running when he hits the firebutton, eh? I seem to recall considering and dismissing that yesterday for some reason, but I can't think of a good reason not to do it now. I'll give it some more thought, and if I can't see any problems, with it, I'll have a bash at implementing it. I've already added a lot of requested features in the past 24 hours, including a tutorial mode, player indicators for end changes, reduced ball inertia, and quite a few GUI tweaks. So I'm way ahead of schedule on the polishing part, I have time to play with that idea. Thanks, GFK. |
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| Did you try out Tennis Critters with the mouse yet? With the mouse it repositions the mouse at the character position, if you move the mouse to the left the character runs left a bit and stops. This helps with running and hitting, because you can make your character run for the ball and then at the last second aim the other direction and hit it where you want. Whatever you do you need to be able to run and hit, that's what makes tennis feel so fluid. One smooth dance. |
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| Nope, I've not had time to check out Tennis Critters yet. I've had lots of good suggestions for changes and additions from testers here, on Blitzcoder and on another non-coding forum, most of which I've already implemented. That's kept me pretty busy. I think I can see how mouse control would work though. I'll download it later to see if my understanding is right, but I think the way I have it in my head already would be good. Whether or not it will gel with everything else, I'm not really sure. I'm still working it around in my head, but I don't think it would be too hard to implement. It's a blinding idea, mouse control had simply never crossed my mind until you mentioned it. If it works and "feels" right, it could be brilliant. Great suggestion, thanks. |
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btw no need for img tags, just write its url...wanna see the pic... wow! cool. the audience looks better - and nice additional shadows. |
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| Seems rough and mechanical in play. iF YOU CAN Tweek it to run faster, be able to move and swing, then it would be much better in my opinion. |
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| I'll certainly give it my best shot. That's what the beta was for. If all else fails, I'll just replace the women with robots and call it Anime Tennis Robots ;o) Thanks JFK, the crowd model is not mine. I'm using one from DrAv and one from Bob3d, so I know have three different crowd options, for low, medium and high spec PC's. ( High in this case, meaning gf2+ so not exceptionally high. ) BTW since Ban is the only person who tested it to mention specs and performance, could anyone else who has already tested it let me know their PC specs, how it ran and with what options? I would like to get some idea of how much leeway I have to add eye-candy. It's presentable at the moment, but it could use some splashy eye-candy if I can afford it. |
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| I played it some more. I couldn't win and it was my 3rd time playing. I'm an extremely good game player myself (though not the fastest learner perhaps). I almost won (because the computer messed up a lot) but the point is this isn't even fast or anything. I should have beaten this my first time out on this difficulty speed. The controls are far too rigid and based on the speed of the swing too much. Hitting the ball should only be a matter of standing in or running past the the right place and swinging with some amount of timing (shouldn't be so precise), people will enjoy the game much better that way. Right now it's really a chore to hit the ball. Take it from someone who worked long and hard to make a game more accessible (and Aerial Antics is still too hard to some people, I must say we have customers who really really love it though :). I'm willing to bet that people would find this game more frustrating in a certain respect because it's not as difficult a concept (everyone should be able to hit a tennis ball back and forth without giving it a second thought). Additionally, you have many other games to use as examples of what to do. Virtua Tennis or Top Spin are the top of the class. You have a lot of competition there which you don't really need to worry about for your sales, though you should learn from them. Something like Tennis Critters is your head-on competition and it's much more playable. My 11 year old sister could play that game easily her first time out. She wouldn't be able to play your game. You've done a lot of work already I know, but if you're going to succeed remember that the last 5% is the hardest and involves a lot of crazy small details, but makes all the difference. It's a good base and it's a tough game to pull off correctly but like I said at least you have a lot of games to learn from. Don't release it until it plays like a dream. In regard to the dilema of getting the hit and run correct, I'd say only during the swing animation for the short period of time (not even the whole animation) that it's possible for the ball to connect with the raquet (maybe 5-10 frames of animation?, I don't know what it is) if you hit left, right, up, or down that should be guiding the direction of the ball. If you're running the player should maintain their velocity for that very short period of time (less than a second, maybe 200 millisecs()). If the player is standing still during that time then they just stay still and the directions will apply only to the ball not toward accelerating them. That should be attainable and would work well I think with a little tuning. Other than that I think you need to interpolate the animation to meet somewhere close with the landing of the ball like when the ball is in the same Z vicinity of the player the animation times itself to be connectable near that Z coord based on the speed of the ball. There should be a window for error but it should be pretty small, like if they swing 2 feet before the ball comes over the net they will miss, and if they swing after the ball is within 2 feet of them they miss but the window of opportunity should be larger than the window for error. Right now the window for error is huge. Hope this helps you tune it up. |
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| Ya, I remember the comments made about AA. I didn't agree personally, I walked right through the demo levels first time, and I'm pretty bad at most games. Your 11 year old sister must be a better games player than me ( wouldn't be hard, to be fair ) because I couldn't hit a ball back after an hour of playing Tennis Critters. Unless they've made some changes to the game since I played it, the timing was even more critical in Tennis Critters than it is in ATB. It's difficult for me to understand, in much the same way Anthony Flack couldn't understand why we were all so crap at Platypus, I suspect. I hardly ever drop a point against the computer. But obviously if people are finding it too hard I have to do something. I feel a little like Anthony Flack must have have felt when he found out we were all so crap at Platypus. I barely drop a point against the computer, and I stink at games. I've already added some stuff of my own to make it easier, including game speed options, and a tutorial mode. Everything you've said makes sense ( except that I played Tennis Critters for 2 hours and didn't hit a single ball when I downloaded it a few months ago ) and if they can be implemented without breaking the flexibility and control over your shot you get when you get better at the game, I will implement them. That includes mouse control, because that could be really cool. No one else has suggested it or even thought much of it when I mention it, but I love the idea of controlling the player with the mouse. Seems damn cool to me. Thanks for the time spent testing and the feedback. I'm pretty clear what I need to work on now. Well, that plus some fancy particle effects and stuff as well. :) [EDIT]Man alive, I'm stoopid. I already coded z-tolerance for hitting the ball. I have a constant at the beginning of the program, and everything else seems to be calculated relative to that. I simply have to change the value. I coded this so long ago, I totally forgot I did that.[/EDIT] |
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| Hey, one thing, I had the same problem with Tennis Critters until I used the mouse. Everyone's going to be different of course but that really made that game more fluid as it had the same issues as this game to me compared to Virtua Tennis. I was like, man Virtua Tennis didn't have everything but if there's one thing it added to the genre it was the timing thing and I don't think anyone should make a tennis game without that. I basically felt the Tennis Critters team missed the boat on that until I played with the mouse which actually made the game fun. There's a ton of other things you can do as well, especially on PC's to separate your game from the others, but at least use some of the good control schemes already present. |
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