Tattoo 0.95 Demo

Community Forums/Showcase/Tattoo 0.95 Demo

TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#1]
Hi all,

Tattoo is up to Version 0.95

[edit]

(Now up to 0.97 Please see posts below.....)

[edit]

(oops .. 0.98 :)



More interesting stuff in there including experimental Tablet pressure support (Needs testing as I don't have a gfx tablet!).

If there are not major problems, the release version 1.0 should be available in a few days time.

Registration will be cost £25 and includes updates for all Tattoo 1.x versions for free.



Download 1.1 meg

Be sure to read the readme.htm!

Let me know how you get on!


fredborg(Posted 2003) [#2]
Surprise, surprise: The tablet pressure stuff works fine on both the Wacom Intuos and Graphire range of tablets :)

I think there is a minor bug in the wireframe rendering, the female head (same as above) has a poly sticking out of the viewport.

I would like to see different color selection modes. I prefer either the PhotoShop colorpicker window style, or the PhotoShop color window style. They are actually different :) I'll post a screen if you need it!

Other than that, it looks and works splendidly.


googlemesilly(Posted 2003) [#3]
any good sites for learning to make head models like that ?

Thanks!
S/D


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#4]
@Fredborg


Surprise, surprise: The tablet pressure stuff works fine on both the Wacom Intuos and Graphire range of tablets :)



Sigh of relief. It's nailbiting stuff releasing things you can't test personally.

On another note, post the screen shot of the colour picker you're interested in and I'll take a look. :)

I haven't had any problems with poly's sticking out of the viewport. It's simply a Blitz CameraViewPort, so I don't clip it manually! So erm.. post a screen shot of that too if possible.


fredborg(Posted 2003) [#5]
Wireframe bug:

Color Window:

Color Picker Window:

The color window (small one), is super fast to use, and it's pretty easy to get the right color quickly. The color picker window (big one) is great for choosing the exact color you want.

The current color selector in Tattoo isn't very good IMO.

Ohh, and the tablet pressure keeps updating size and opacity, even if you aren't using the pen in the viewport (ie. when accessing the gui and menus). Also I think most people are used to the opacity thing being set to the maximum desired value, and then scaling the pressure from the pen within that range. Instead of going from 0-100% as it does now.


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#6]
Ah, thanks for that.

The color selector in Tattoo is an improvement on the original one (Paint Shop Pro style), but not as good as it could be due to space constraints. The two dialogs you are interested in, would not fit comforably in the space provided (plus the color wheel looks prettier too! :)

There's definately a case for a color picking window though. So I'll implement something like the above in a future update, but in a window (like the texture view) so as to do it justice.

'Wire Frame Bug' - Ah. I see what you mean.. Hmmmm.

'Pressure updating constantly' - ok, can fix.

'Pressure in range of 0 to the max set in the slider' - Mmmm, I'm not sure about this one. It seems a little unnatural to not be able to make hard lines by pressing harder. Maybe as an optional behaviour.

Thanks for taking the time to have a look.


fredborg(Posted 2003) [#7]
'Pressure in range of 0 to the max set in the slider' - Mmmm, I'm not sure about this one. It seems a little unnatural to not be able to make hard lines by pressing harder. Maybe as an optional behaviour.
It's the way it works in Photoshop and PSP, that's why I assume most people are used to that. Also it gives you greater precision if you are painting 'layer-by-layer', allowing you to make very slight changes each stroke. I always think of it as how much water you blend your watercolors with, no matter how hard you press the brush on the paper, it can only leave so much color.


fredborg(Posted 2003) [#8]
In addition a palette tool, where you can mix colors in a small window would be really nice :)


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#9]

Also it gives you greater precision if you are painting 'layer-by-layer', allowing you to make very slight changes each stroke



This is the problem with not having a graphics tablet, I wouldn't know what is normal. It makes sense that it gives you a finer degree of control, I was thinking more in terms of using a real pencil.

An optional behavior still sounds good but perhaps with relative pressure (as I understand it) being the default.


In addition a palette tool, where you can mix colors in a small window would be really nice :)



Do you have an example of one?


fredborg(Posted 2003) [#10]
ArtStudio has one, you can see it on the screenshot on this page, but you should probably download it to see how it works. I don't really like the program, but this feature is nice :)

Usually I just have a small image open in Photoshop, where I can splash colors around, and pick them quickly.

[edit]Ohh, their site seems to be down, so here's a screen

Perhaps this could be combined with the small color window from Photoshop?


QuickSilva(Posted 2003) [#11]
How does the program cope with the latest NVidia drivers? Did you manage to sort the problem?

Jason.


granada(Posted 2003) [#12]
quicksilva

this version just about runs for me 16 fps,better
than the last versions
it seems to be getting faster

dave


skn3(Posted 2003) [#13]
runs at 64fps for me in.

radeon 9700 pro
1 gig pc2700 ddr
2.53 mhz pentium 4
windows XP sp1

It is a very nice tool. Still deffinatly needs some more control things added. Like moving the model around freeform with the mouse.

Then some more tools like blur, smooth, lighten, darken, burn, etc.

At the moment it was not easy at all to add small details like creases. The smallest 1 pixel brush size produced mixed resutls at best.

Anyway, great app if some of these features are added, and more, I would consider buying it.

[EDIT]
Oh, and being able to draw with in selection shapes would dramatically increase work flow. For example you can select the eye using a point to point area select tool. Then limit the painting effect to the 2d coords of that selection area. I found myself painting onto bits that I didn't want to...


Genexi2(Posted 2003) [#14]
Tried it out on my Wacom Intuos2 9x12" tablet, works like a breeze. :)

Only thing is....the program runs super smooth at some points, and slow as crap most of the time... :-/

Will the program supports layers (or multitexturing, whatever its called) in a future release?


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#15]
Drivers are the biggest problem, especially with the Nvidia cards. My GF4200Ti gets 100+ FPS (as you can see on the screen shot) but that is using Detonators 44.03, the latest ones drop it to a crawling 5 FPS. Nvidia hasn't replied.. :(

I have found ways to speed things up as I've gone along, but I doubt I'll get it up to any speed on Dodgy drivers!

The functionality structure for multi layers is pretty much in, but not yet active (some issues to work out first).

@ skn3[ac] - The Lighten and Darken brushes part of the airbrush tool, called 'Shade'. This will lighten or darken an area according to the colour you have selected.

Blur is coming, as are other brush types in time. In fact some of the tools (ovals, lines, rectangles etc.) will have to wait until I get the 'projection paint' mode up and running.

You can move around with the mouse by holding the Shift key.


skn3(Posted 2003) [#16]
Ah thats cool then, perhaps I should have read the readme ;)

Will you be doing anything like the selection thing I mentioned ?


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#17]
Hi all,

Tattoo is up to Version 0.97 (Release Candidate 1)

0.97 addresses:
* The relative pressure issue for GFX Tablet (Needs testing)
* WireFrame Bug
* Single pixel sized AirBrush not showing up
* recursive blurring on Tattoo Image Projection

Download 1.1 meg

Please give it a test if you get time.


Bot Builder(Posted 2003) [#18]
cool. Even non artistic people like me can make halfway decent textures. So probably all the artistic people can create create amazing things. but then again, they probably of photoshop.... oh well. has fairly intuitive controls, but I agree with people on a better color picker. your's is cool, and I like the way that the background color is the current color on the color wheel, but it's to hard to get the color you want.


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#19]
@ skn3[ac]

Some kind of Selection mask will be introduced. I agree that it's frustrating to mess up adjacent areas when painting. Just have to work out how to do it :D

@ Bot Builder

For those that like exact colours, a new color picker (like the one Fredborg suggested) should soon be available as a popup window.


Beaker(Posted 2003) [#20]
I can't seem to get the airbrush to work (with mouse) at anything but 1 pixel size!

Is this cos of the tablet support?


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#21]
If you are working in tablet mode (i.e you have a tablet connected and have checked the option in the config screen to allow tablet pressure to set the size of the brush) then you cannot paint with the mouse because the tablet pressure reading is overriding the size setting.

At least, that's how it is supposed to work. Not having a tablet means it's hard to test.


Beaker(Posted 2003) [#22]
I don't have my tablet connected and I haven't selected the options for it. Also, if I draw some lines using the Solid Brush and then draw over the top with the Airbrush, it seems to smudge and smear the underlying colors without drawing any new color.

Very odd.


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#23]
Ok.. I think I've got it.. Could you re-download 0.98 and give it a test please. Thanks.

Boy I really need to get a GFX Tablet :/


Beaker(Posted 2003) [#24]
OK, that works. My wish list:

That the gap between the different tools not be so great:
Solid brush seems to have gaps when you draw fast.
Solid and speckled brushes should have alpha.
Airbrush should be able to draw lines.

Of course it should remember the different settings for each tool.

I wonder whether a line/step option would help.


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#25]
* Solid brush seems to have gaps when you draw fast.

This is a setting designed to avoid straying into non contigous UVs. The problem is, if you started drawing on one triangle, then hit another on the other side of the texture it would draw a line between then, directly through unrelated texture space. Currently if the distance between the last point and the current one is over a threshold, then it merely plots rather than draws a line.

I'll have to give that problem some more thought I think.

* Solid and speckled brushes should have alpha.
Yup, that's coming soon.

* Airbrush should be able to draw lines.
Not sure what you mean by that one

* Tools should remember their individual settings.
Ah, now that's an Idea I hadn't thought of.


Ross C(Posted 2003) [#26]
Whoa!! this program is sooo sweet! fantastic work there! Any idea how much it will be?


Mustang(Posted 2003) [#27]
Any idea how much it will be?


See the first post! :)


Ross C(Posted 2003) [#28]
oh right, cheers. didn't notice that :o)


Al Mackey(Posted 2003) [#29]
Wow, this is looking real good!

My only concern with technique is that if you have a UV map that has seams (for example, one generated by LightWave's "Atlas" UV mode), it doesn't paint smoothly across them.

Also, it runs rather slow for me.. I get about 3 FPS on my P4 1.6Ghz, GeForce3 machine!


Al Mackey(Posted 2003) [#30]
I'm not sure what triggers it, but sometimes it'll jump up from 3 FPS to about 80, and stay there until I quit or load a new model. I'm not running any other apps at the same time.


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#31]
What version of the Detonators are you using. The last version that works properly is 44.03. The latest ones have some kind of bug that kills the framerate down to 1 or so FPS.


Al Mackey(Posted 2003) [#32]
Ahh, that must be it. I downloaded and installed the drivers recently after I had to replace my motherboard. (The old one decided to make all its capacitors start leaking simultaneously)


StOrM3(Posted 2003) [#33]
okay here is the bugs I have found.. For some reason certain parts of models are uncolorable. I loaded a tank model, and the sides of the trax were not colorable for some reason, but yet when i moved the pointer over them they rotated colors between dark shades of red and black. Also the pressure of the drawing tablet seems to not be taken into account, no matter how many times I tried drawing with different pressures it still would not draw with different thicknesses or whatever. Also the eraser on the back side of my drawing pen for my wacom tablet is non-functional. Don't know if this is by your design or if you planned on implementing it later. I have a Wacom Graphire 2 drawing tablet, so I can test anything else you need.

Thanks, this program looks great so far, is this program going to kill my wallet though ? I would love the chance to either snag it free for helping to test it, or at least a discount.

Thanks

Ken btw: you can reach me for further testing and comments at storm3@...


StOrM3(Posted 2003) [#34]
okay here is the bugs I have found.. For some reason certain parts of models are uncolorable. I loaded a tank model, and the sides of the trax were not colorable for some reason, but yet when i moved the pointer over them they rotated colors between dark shades of red and black. Also the pressure of the drawing tablet seems to not be taken into account, no matter how many times I tried drawing with different pressures it still would not draw with different thicknesses or whatever. Also the eraser on the back side of my drawing pen for my wacom tablet is non-functional. Don't know if this is by your design or if you planned on implementing it later. I have a Wacom Graphire 2 drawing tablet, so I can test anything else you need.

Thanks, this program looks great so far, is this program going to kill my wallet though ? I would love the chance to either snag it free for helping to test it, or at least a discount.

Thanks

Ken btw: you can reach me for further testing and comments at storm3@...


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#35]
Hi there,

The symptoms you are describing sound like the Tracks do not have UV Co-Ordinates assigned (or are out of range in some way). If this is the case it means that all pixels painted to those triangles will be colored by a single color. Could you send me the model and textures to test with?

The eraser is not yet supported (Tablet support is a little experemental at the moment, and I really need to get one myself to develop it properly.)... Also you need to tick either or both of the Tablet control boxes on the Config dialog (under Edit -> Config).

Could anyone else with a Tablet please test it out and see if you're getting the same results please? Thanks.

The full version is just £25.


fredborg(Posted 2003) [#36]
Terabit: You can see which end of the stylus is being used, by checking the 'typ' variable in the 'TabletData' type. 1 is the pen tip, 2 is the eraser. As you know it works fine for me.


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#37]
Thanks Fredborg. Hmmm, what should be mapped to the eraser I wonder..


Al Mackey(Posted 2003) [#38]
Perhaps you could have a picker for a secondary color? That way, for example, you can switch between a light and dark shade of a color for an area you're working on, just by flipping around the stylus.


TeraBit(Posted 2003) [#39]
Ok Nvidia issue seems to have been sorted. I just got this reply back.

"With the latest drivers that we will be releasing soon, I am getting around 100FPS on a Geforce4 MX 420 running with a Pentium4 2.4GHz CPU so I assume the issue is fixed. If you still have customers experiencing these problems, please let us know."

Good to know at least! :)