Tank Universal: beta demo (again)
Community Forums/Showcase/Tank Universal: beta demo (again)
| ||
| Hi all After a bit of an abortive first try, I've re-uploaded the demo to; http://blitz.idigicon.com/project_detailb.asp?ProjectName=Tank%20Universal This new version has been tweaked and a number of issues fixed. I've reduced the demo to one level and this has been tested sucessfully with W2000 and W95. Again, it's a 15mb download so those with 56k connections may like to hold off until the faster downloaders (Anthony/Neuro/Midnight/Fredborg?) can verify that everything's ok. (Also, the vertex lighting and terrain lighting has been included, but these are still pretty patchy and need tweaking) Let me know your thoughts |
| ||
| Well just tested it out and it all seemed to work fine on my P3 1.0gzh running WIN ME, geforce2. The mouse left trails on menu after I clicked on credits or options. |
| ||
| Neuro Yep - known issue with the menus. Will fix at some stage. |
| ||
| Can someone confirm that (Guildhall's) Blitz Showcase site is down? It'd be typical, I upload my demo and their site goes offline (must be due to the rush to download the demo ;-)) |
| ||
| I got it! Wow, very impressive. I haven't played a full game yet, but I've had a bit of a drive around, blown up a few tanks and been blown up. It's pretty cool. And very slick indeed. |
| ||
| Anthony When you do get a mo', I'd be very interested in your/people's feedback and ideas, (and criticisms). One thing I plan for the larger maps is some directional lines appearing on the radar to help the player find keys etc.. Also at the moment you can collect blue alpha's key and then call a lifter to take you back to base - which is kind of cheating, so may restrict that by having specific lifter pickup/drop off pads Of course now it's the long road of adding content towards the full game.. |
| ||
| This games got a lot of potential, Im impressed! Ill get straight to the point with what I didnt like: The controls didnt feel responsive enough mostly due to the way you control the turret with the mouse. Theres alot of inertia, and im not sure if pressing right mouse to stop and toggle up/down rotation is a good idea. Id prefer that the turret moves in all directions without a toggle for up/down. You could keep the sense of inertia but if I stop moving the mouse, Id like the turret to stop too and not have to swing the mouse the other way to stop it(or press rm). Im guessing that youve play tested it so much your a demon with the controls by now! but I give a game 10mins to get used to the controls and if I havent got the basics by then its escape and delete time ;) I like the idea with the energy distribution ie., more power to the engines, less to weapons etc., but again I thought this was abit slow. I was thinking you could keep the precise way of doing it but also for the 'heat of the moment' situations you could have 4 or 5 presets (maybe 1-4) keys or summin. One press of the button sets the tank up automatically for equal distributaion/more manouverability less fire power/for fire power less manouverability etc. etc. Already looking forward to the next version! |
| ||
| Heya, thanks for the new demo. First Impressions: Wow - great audiovisuals! On my first game it took me a while to figure out what I was doing, and by the time I got out into the open arena there was already a full-scale war going on... which looked and sounded very impressive! I especially like the look of the heavy cannon fire. And anyone who's ever watched Tron will feel right at home. Also great view of the battlefield from the lifters. Controls - I agree with Rigz. A little less inertia, and drop the right-button to look up and down. I'm also not quite sure what I'm supposed to do... should I go solo and get the blue key, or is there a way to coordinate with the other red tanks? Anytime I shoot my way into the blue base I get blown to pieces once I'm inside. Finally, the re-start sequence is a little lengthy. It's cool the first time, but got on my nerves quickly. A simple re-start would be preferred. Congrats on it so far... this should turn out to be lots of fun! Cheers! |
| ||
| Great stuff. One of the best use of particle effects I've seen yet. I pretty much agree with Midnight and Rigz about the controls, I often found myself wanting to move barrel around in all directions while holding the RMB down. |
| ||
| Well....what can I say? The best I ever seen far away from Blitz Congratulations Madjack, Tank Universal give me that sensation that give me the "reals games", I mean, play with tank universal Itīs just like play with any comercial game of today Congratulations again....and sorry for my English |
| ||
| After playing for nearly an hour I've found that after a while the controls grow on you. The atmosphere is absolutely wonderful. The feeling of rushing the enemy base, grabbing the key, boosting power to engines and making a mad dash back to base all while friendly artillery shell oncoming tanks is excellent. I think I'll go have another play. |
| ||
| Still haven't been able to win a game. :( Found one bug: My tank was almost shot so I exited it and made a run on foot - thought I might be able to enter/hijack an enemy tank (can you?). Got blasted... and after the "Reconnect" message the game crashed (memory access violation). |
| ||
| I tried this demo (twice) and suffered from the same system lock-up bug. Basically, the game was fine until I drove the tank forwards. On the second time I ran the demo, I looked up and down a little and fired some practice shots before driving forwards, and having it freeze up. After half a second of moving forwards, it freezes up the game. I'm running on P4 2.26ghz, GF4ti4600, 1gb RAM, winXP pro, 1600x1200. What feedback I can give... maybe have some better subtlety of vertical tank adjustment, perhaps move the turret in clicks or have a numerical gauge (bleh, I don't like the idea of a numerical gauge though, I prefer the simplicity of the look you have). Some means of knowing how far you've moved the turret would be cool though, that's why I thought clicks. You move it up, and it clicks audibly 5 times... you know that if it overshoots, you move it down so that it clicks 2 times, it would help refining shots. Love the visuals ^_^ |
| ||
| I have been wanting to play this game since I first saw screenshots! Suggestions: 1) Integrate both up/down and right/left into one, so that you don't have to right click. 2) Make the cursor keys available for controlling the base of the tank as well. 3) Make a visual cue to let the player know where he is looking in relation to where he is driving. 4) make the dampening of the turret turn adjustable. 5) Look into how efficiently you are using resources... On my machine it takes 3-4 minutes just to load the menu, and another 2-3 minutes to get into the arena... After playing the game, I tried pressing ESCape, and it took 2-3 minutes before I was asked if I wanted to quit... When I answered yes, it took 2 minutes until it did... All of this time, there the program was using the harddrive, so something was obviously going on! I usually don't have a problem with load times, but the second time I wanted to quit, I ended up rebooting as it was faster. Edit: What exactly am I supposed to do when the tank is blown up and I find my self in a remote area with a tank next to me? Celeron 1400MHz 512MB RAM Geforce 256 DDR WinME Andy |
| ||
| I would like to interject, and say that the right click should be kept. This makes it more like a tank, and less like a FPS. You set the height, judge the distance, and use that as a reference point as you move about. Dropping the right-click would negate that, and mean that the time you spent judging your aim and distance would have been lost. This is similar to the tactics in Scorched Earth, Worms, and similar tank games. I like the turret height control. |
| ||
| Thanks to all those who've downloaded the demo and for the feedback - very interesting/useful Rigz Hmm - a number of people don't much care for the controls. My intent with the control scheme was that as it's a tank game and not a mouse twitching FPS, I wanted an element of 'deliberateness' in the aiming. This does mean that in close quarters, it's a slower matter (than an fps), to turn and aim. Also, it is important that turret yaw is locked while the player adjusts gun pitch hence the RMB. The inertia is so that the player can slew and aim without extravagant mouse movements (hence the inertia) and the player can(with good mouse control) make fine tuning for distant shots. However, will look at tightening the inertia and how RMB/no RMB stacks up. Agree that the power distribution needs more work and hotkeys for quick distribution. There's also a bug in there that allows you to go to 100% engines I've found - call it a debug feature ;-) Midnight Can you co-ordinate with the other tanks? Short answer is no, they do have some AI to stick close to the player but it's not overriding. One idea is 'reputation' i.e. gain enough reputation and you'll be more popular with your NPC teammates and more inclined to protect you. I'm undecided about adding teammate commands - I feel they can complicate a straight forward action game and if they're only done simply, they can seem kind of an afterthought/incomplete. Not sure. Perhaps something like Xwing Alliance's command options would be ok. You do need to get to the blue hub to grab the blue key and take it back to your hub - so you'll have to deal to the inner turrets. Agree, the exit/restart is too lengthy - need an option to escape the game immediately (and some optimisation no doubt) 'enter/hijack an enemy tank (can you?).' If a tank is empty then the answer will be yes (so in future levels you'll be able to enter a base and 'steal' a tank). Will look into why it crashed for you. Dock That's not good - did you try at a lesser res? Perhaps try deleting the TU.cfg file first to run from default settings. (Do any other Blitz progs crash for you?) There is a 'pip' to the right of the target reticule that moves up/down but the idea of 'clicks' is one I'll investigate - thanks. Andy '1) Integrate both up/down and right/left into one..' - see above '2) Make the cursor keys available for controlling the base of the tank..' - yep, key customisation needs to happen for the final game '3) Make a visual cue to let the player know where he is looking in relation to where he is driving' - agree, although there's a red decal on the tankbase that gives some clue, and a turret direction indicator on the radar, there needs to be perhaps, a scrolling indicator along the bottom of the screen ('s...w...n...e'?) '4) make the dampening of the turret turn adjustable'- agree, more customisatiopn options needed. '5) Look into how efficiently you are using resources' - agree, need to tighten this up considerably Dock man after my own heart |
| ||
| ..and feel free to vote ;-) |
| ||
| I hate the asp download system on the showcase. I can't use my download resumer to "catch" files and therefore I cannot download files of this size on my dialup connection(hopefully getting cable soon). Someone have a direct link to the file? |
| ||
| Absolutely stunning! I've only just downloaded it and so I've only played it for a short while, but I'm very impressed. It is very much like Tron, but thats gotta be a good thing IMHO! Also runs like a dream on my 1Ghz AMD, 256Mb RAM with NVidia Riva TNT2/64 graphics adapter. Have fun |
| ||
| I tried it again on default config, and it works fine - no lock up. I gusss it must be some sort of problem running at 1600x1200. The reason I run it at 1600x1200 is because that's the native resolution of my LCD display. I think there is too much inertia on the tank movement, as real tanks have very stop-start movement in real life (very little acceleration - they just start moving at the set speed, and stop immediately - at least that's how it looks on TV ^_^). However I'm sure the controls are about getting used to them more than anything. Some tutorial levels to get used to the controls would be a good idea (think Crazy Taxi's Crazy Box). Looks cool :) I don't like the pixelated font though, it turns into a mess when scaled, and doesn't match the sleek uncomplicated visuals of the rest of the game. A square font would be okay, but the gaps between the pixels seem like overkill. Another suggestion - how about a visual aid to see where previous shots have hit? Some sort of marking on the floor, or something. Other tank games use this, and you can use your missed shots to judge your new shots. It also acts as a warning to other players :) |
| ||
| I thought of a possible comprimise on the turret control. The mouse control only swings the turret left and right but when u fire the gun the longer you keep your finger on the left mouse button the higher it fires the bullet. You could have a bar or something as a visual gauge. You could even keep the other method, I don't think holding the mouse method would have any advantages, it might just make it easier to control for the beginner. I must admit I played FPSs quite heavily so my opinion is prolly bias lol. But even so too many buttons to press cant be a good thing. I loved scorched tanks, that brings back a few memories, but that was turn based anyway, as are many 'turret tank games' so you could take as long as you want to line your shot up. |
| ||
| I can confirm Midnight's crash bug. Just before my tank was destroyed I jumped out and called for a lifter. Once my tank was destroyed I was killed as well and the game exited with an error. |
| ||
| It also crashes here if I leave the tank and it is destroyed Andy |
| ||
| This game has great atmosphere, a nice combination of retro-like design and gameplay with 3D graphics. I think it is on the difficult side though! This may be caused by the enemies being very good at aiming, and the player (me) not being very good at it. I had some difficulty adjusting the height of the shot. I would click the right mouse button and move up or down, but nothing happens. So I move up or down some more (the mouse I mean...) and then suddenly the barrel *does* move, but more than I wanted it to. So it's the fine-tuning of the height of the shot that I found very difficult. (Especially since in the meanwhile the opponents seemed to have less trouble on this aspect of the game! ;)) You mentioned wanting to keep the control method like that so it wouldn't be like an FPS and more like getting the right angle (like in the "artillery" type of games). But I think that even if you give the player free mouse control over both horizontal *and* vertical adjustment, you will still have this element of judging the right angle, it will just be easier to apply (and thus more fun). But all in all, a great effort! I also like the intro, zooming across the grid. When it stops zooming and the actual menu appears, the angle is adjusted a bit; maybe it would look better if it stayed at the same angle, if you know what I mean. |
| ||
| Yeah, it was hard to control, why not just give them free movement of the turret with the mouse.... It would make for a much more interesting game. |
| ||
| I did an overnight test on the game and I have learned to work the controls better, but they still bother me... Perhaps you could have an option called 'Control Style' where you can choose 'Arcade' for an FPS like control or choose 'Artillery' for the current controls. I am pretty sure that I would still prefer 'Arcade'... Secondly, although the AI is quite good, the opponents don't seem to feel 'threatened'... Often I come real close or bump into them and they don't even see me... On the other hand, after a few hours of play it seems easy. After an hour or so, it seems that the game slows down and starts skipping frames... It happens both when I play on top of my standard windows and when I stop everything else and then boot the game... I'll keep testing Andy |
| ||
| Darknature Glad you like it - it's possible to do alot with simple but strongly defined shapes and perspective, along with evocative colour and lighting (and Blitz) Dock I don't think I'd want to leave out the inertia (to go to a stop start kind of thing), but will look at dampening the inertia a bit I think (hey, it's not real life ;-)). As for the font - agree. I had intended to use the logo's font (Lord of the Sith it's called), but it was bugging out, so at a pinch I went with the other. Rigz Interesting idea - I can see I'm going to have to revisit the control scheme side of things. Sigh. Having said that, I have a suspicion though that some of you are approaching this from a wholly FPS perspective (and it's a tank game ;-). There will be a FPS portion to the game, so my feeling is that the tank control would be different. Again, my intention with the RMB control was to offer a (tanklike?) deliberateness - where the player is not moving the mouse much at all to slew and aim - and the turret does not turn immediately (think Tron's tank). If you're jerking the mouse or lifting it up and 'scrabbling' with it, then you're actually fighting against the control scheme. But, maybe I could whip up a small exe which offers several control options and people could vote for what they like.. Also, this arena level might be a little misleading as most of the levels will be more maze like. Foppy Training level/s - agree. The arena's a (somewhat) steep learning curve. Also, need to implement an easy/normal/hard/insane feature that adjusts player shields/shooting etc.. And if there's laser tanks about, don't get out in the open with them or at least get up on a slope so it's harder for them to aim. And don't stay still (or the cap ship'll cap you) To adjust gun pitch, hold the RMB button down (but you're probably doing that) (and I'm surprised that it runs on a C64!) Andy Control style option - Yes, although play balancing might be difficult. If 'arcade' control allows the player to zap things at a much quicker rate vs a slower yaw/pitch control, then level design can be a problem. Think I'd rather settle on one control scheme only. AI doesn't feel 'threatened' - agree, I've spread the AI refresh over a number of frames/seconds. But need to give enemies close to the player a higher refresh rate and also add a 'sightings report' if you (or another unit) collide. AI dev is like an endless hall of mirrors. Maybe there's a mem leak. I also had some trouble with units sitting in inaccessible map squares and repeatedly trying to pathfind (and hogging resources) - that could be it. Thanks for your independent testing. |
| ||
| MadJack, really nice stuff thus far, I really(like others) dont *enjoy* the RMB to raise or lower the gun. Just my oppinion tho. |
| ||
| >Thanks for your independent testing. hehe... I told you I would be the first to buy it when it's done, so you can imagine that I enjoy playing it already... What kind of tactics do you believe that the player will use? That could answer some questions about the controls... I drive at full speed, make few corrections to the base, and fire at anything which is within 5-10 squares distance. To do that, I keep the gun elevated just a few degrees, so that I can hit anything within 5-10 squares distance... The only time where I use elevation, is to take out the sentries guarding the enemy entrance from the other side of the arena(to avoid their fire). some of my problems with the controls are that they are not consistant... Often, the controls spin out of control and the gun turns halfway around the tank, even when I apply very little rotation with the mouse... It sounds like you have done alot of thinking about the controls, which is good, but it also sounds like you just don't want to change anything about the controls. That's cool, but if the control is not intuitive, then the player will have great dificulty getting into the game. I am not advocating an FPS style control system with no dampening etc... To be able both raise and rotate the gun without LMB would be nice combined with the dampening of the gunrotation and would make it more intuitive, as well as retaining the dificulty of the game... As I play it on the arena at least, I rarely use gun elevation at all... If it was more intuitive, then I might be able to develop long range tactics instead of the short range tactics that I am forced to use now... Unless ofcourse that is how you want the game to be played! You should also stop the rotation of the barrel when you enter the tank, as sometimes the gun rotates when I get in after being shot out. ...Still testing Andy EDIT: it was ofcourse 5-10 squares not 3-5... |
| ||
| (and I'm surprised that it runs on a C64!) Yeah I did have to turn off most of the graphical detail though. I remember how I used to put a second joystick on the floor under the table (yes, ok...) to be able to use the fire button (which happened to be recognized as the space bar) for launching extra weapons in Turrican using my foot. (I guess I couldn't just press the space bar, but I don't remember why not.) Your game would certainly require such advanced tactics! ;)I just played your game some more, I actually survived for a few minutes and destroyed one or two enemies! It was funny, I was moving *very* slowly and carefully towards the exit of my own camp, when suddenly an enemy tank jumped in and boom! The robotic voices are nice by the way, is that your own voice with effects added? Ah so there are laser tanks! Yes once they hit you, they keep hitting you and it's game over... Maybe the laser weapon should have some disadvantage, like a long reload time. Or maybe I should follow your advice and not come to a halt in front of one. |
| ||
| Before trying the demo, I was reading some of the comments here about the control method and thinking, No, I like the idea of fine control in the gun turret, I'm looking forward to playing a game that doesn't have simplified arcade controls. Having played it now I've changed my mind. The control method you've utilised annoyed me somewhat, and I think given the arcade nature of the game, I'd prefer a simplified control method. I'd prefer the pitch to not require RMB; I'd like the turret to be able to go higher too. And certainly I'd like the yaw to turn with the tank body when you turn the tank. To please everybody, it would be no great task to provide the option for each control method. If you're keen on having people choose the fine control that you've gone for, I had an idea for my game: I wanted a more RPG style control method but I realise some people are going to want shortcuts, so I will give them that option, at the expense of certain things: ie, if they choose the easy control method, certain vehicles or weapons are no longer available so to get those items, players need to master the advanced controls. Also, I would quite like the option of a 3rd person view, both in and out of the tank. Having said all of this, I really like it so far. The look is really nice and it's really satisfying blowing up enemy tanks. Looking forward to the next release... |
| ||
| Heh, guess I can hardly stand in the way of such strong public opinion - the RMB control is a goner. Andy Tactics - I'd like to think that'll be varied - some levels will be wide open plains, others will be complex mazes. But I'm perturbed that you hardly use the gun elevation to make long shots. I do want the player to engage in long distance firefights - I implemented blast damage as an incentive to 'soften up' distant targets. Rotation of turret not being reset - agreed, this is a bug to fix Foppy The best tactic is to collect the key and activate your hub as soon as possible, and then boost engines and get down on the plain and (boost gun energy) lob shells at the enemy as they emerge from their fortress. You can pretty much wipe them out. The voice is computer generated and reprocessed for effect. Laser tanks - they do have a longer reload time than normal tanks. My best advice is boost speed, weave and get to higher ground/cover. But not stopping would be a start ;-) MrTricks I'm planning for upgrades that do give faster speed/greater yaw etc, but gun pitch will still be limited. Yaw the gun with the tankbase. I could offer it as an option. I'd like the player to get used to an independant turret/tankbase and to not use the tankbase as an aiming tool though. 3rd person. Now on this I'm standing firm. There will be no 3rd person. Reason being that it breaks immersiveness and I want everything to happen through the perspective of the main character... |
| ||
| Fair enough. :) |
| ||
| >Heh, guess I can hardly stand in the way of such strong >public opinion - the RMB control is a goner. I am starting to miss it already:) >Tactics - I'd like to think that'll be varied - some >levels will be wide open plains, others will be complex >mazes. But I'm perturbed that you hardly use the gun >elevation to make long shots. I do want the player to >engage in long distance firefights - I implemented blast >damage as an incentive to 'soften up' distant targets. About tactics... I was watching a show on discovery channel, about a german tank commander during WW2 named Michael Wittmann. Incidently he was the most victorious german tank commander during the war, and completely reinvented tank tactics... Maybe something to look into if you want to refine the AI, or later decide to let the turret rotate with the base(Although more realistic, I wouldn't recommend that, but if you are considering it, then please make it optional in the next beta... I'll playtest for a full weekend and let you know what I think:) >Rotation of turret not being reset - agreed, this is a bug >to fix The dampening of turret and gun movement adds realism, but it is difficult to get the precise rotation and elevation that I want, so I usually end up lifting the gun, then lowering it, then lifting it and lowering it(etc. etc. etc.) until I get the elevation that I want(When shooting at the sentries)... >The best tactic is to collect the key and activate your >hub as soon as possible, and then boost engines and get >down on the plain and (boost gun energy) lob shells at the >enemy as they emerge from their fortress. You can pretty >much wipe them out. I wasn't even aware that I could boost gun and engines... To what purpose I am wondering? >Laser tanks - they do have a longer reload time than >normal tanks. My best advice is boost speed, weave and get >to higher ground/cover. But not stopping would be a >start ;-) Damn those lasertanks... They ALWAYS get me... It seems that you made them 10000 times stronger than the other AI opponents just to bug us! >I'm planning for upgrades that do give faster >speed/greater yaw etc, but gun pitch will still be >limited. How about a 'targeting computer upgrade', that enables you to do simple long range targetting. >Yaw the gun with the tankbase. I could offer it as an >option. I'd like the player to get used to an independant >turret/tankbase and to not use the tankbase as an aiming >tool though. I vote for it being optional... >3rd person. Now on this I'm standing firm. There will be >no 3rd person. Reason being that it breaks immersiveness >and I want everything to happen through the perspective of >the main character... I agree! Plus it gives you all of those interesting 'camera through wall and part of decoration completely obscuring my view' problem. Andy |
| ||
| Oh... And you really need to change the logo into a B3D in stead of the B2D log... Do you cheat the camera anywhere in the game? I mean hide/ unhide meshes outside of the field of view. Are there any calculations that you can spread out over several frames? Andy |
   |