Quite pleased with myself

Community Forums/Showcase/Quite pleased with myself

Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#1]
2 weeks of hard labour later... I have my main alien animations. Damn, I get tired of doing this animation stuff... not as much work as Cletus (only 108 frames) but still very draining.

But now comes the fun part, putting it all into the game!
And I find it rather satisfying viewing a sheet with all the frames on it:



If you're wondering where its head is - this will be animated seperately. And I ain't done that bit yet.


Zo Zo Zee Zar(Posted 2003) [#2]
Hey where's his he.. ahh ok :)

Looks class - thats some serious work gone in to that.

I'm gagging for the next demo - can't you do without that sleeping stuff for a bit or something?


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#3]
Is it me or do I see no..ahh ok :)

That must take up a fair amount of memory?
Looks great.


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#4]
Hmm, I haven't put em in tiles yet, but I would estimate 7x256x256 tiles should do it. The game has a budget of 32 tiles in memory at a time, for general spritey stuff (not counting the main background, sky, font etc). Each tile takes up 256x256x4 = 256K of memory, so those guys should take up nearly 2 megs altogether - quite a bit, sure! I certainly do wish we had more graphics memory to play with! (I'd make 'em higher res). Or proper, fast access to system memory, I'd love to fill up 128megs of sysram with graphics!

But I'm going to get good value out of those graphics. I'm going to put different weapons in their hands, and because the head is seperate, I can use vertex colours to make the bodies any colour I want - notice that it's all grey, and therefore a blank slate for colour manipulation? So I can have regular white ones, extra big yellow ones, red ones with laser guns, and super-evil black ninja ones, for example, all with the one graphics set. Getting the maximum use out of vidram is my #1 concern with this game.

Oh, and there IS the option to reduce the tiles to half size, and store them in 16 bit colour. It looks really crappy, but then each tile only takes up 32K, so maybe it'll make all the difference to some sorry sod somewhere...


Zo Zo Zee Zar(Posted 2003) [#5]
Hey can we be treated to a large piccy of the headless alien like you showed of Cletus?


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#6]
Oh, okay...

This is a picture taken just before I started animating - which I sent to Simon to let him know the photostrobe he lent me was working out really well. Hmm, even if this shot is a touch overexposed...



Notice the head is in place!


Zo Zo Zee Zar(Posted 2003) [#7]
woo! thanks :)
tis corking - great character :) Nice head too!

What is a photostrobe? is it one of those contraptions that allows you to "freeze" drops of water type thing?


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#8]
It's one of them big white umbrella things that goes "POUFF!" when you take a picture. Much, much better than the table lamps I had been using recently! And even better than the movie lights I used to use - they're really hot and horrible to work under, and the strobe is even brighter anyway!



Here's a picture of it going off! Go you good thing go!
(except for during that brief instant, the room was dark except for the little lamp)

Look how poxy and dim and orange that lamp looks! That lamp (and another similar lamp) was the lighting rig for Cletus! (Good job I have a good camera) - but I cannot begin to describe how much better results I get with the magic umbrella...


Zo Zo Zee Zar(Posted 2003) [#9]
ahh! I heard the "POUFF!" sound in my head when i read your reply - I know exactly what you mean now.
I must talk to my doctor about strange noises in my head.


EOF(Posted 2003) [#10]
Superb alien Anthony. Would not look out of place in an episode of

'Wallis and Gromit go to Mars' !-0

Is that a jamjar for a helmet?


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#11]
Heh, close, it's an olive jar! (I'll tweak it a bit more for the final one, I want it a little more round on top). In the game you have to kill them by smashing the helmet; hitting them in the body knocks them back but they don't die. For the bigger variety, this means you have to jump up and kick their faces in. :oD

Or Throw something heavy at them. Like a great big boulder. Or let off your shotgun in their faces (if you have one). Or chuck a stick of dynamite their way (if you have any). Bwahaha


Knotz(Posted 2003) [#12]
Oh man, what a work!

But, super original!


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#13]
Reminds me of Toejam from Toejam and Earl.


BlitzSupport(Posted 2003) [#14]
That looks great! Really looking forward to seeing this one completed too... :)


fredborg(Posted 2003) [#15]
Where do I preorder?

Fredborg


Rob Farley(Posted 2003) [#16]
Looks peeretty!


Beaker(Posted 2003) [#17]
"Take me to your leader. We wish to meet the creature you call 'Ravey'. We come baring gifts of the botty."




Smurfpuss(Posted 2003) [#18]
well using the clay of making your figures is really impressive what kinde of clay are you using and does it have any bone structure of any kinde so you can rigg it right

must take a really long time making the animations i think i better woulde have made it in 3d but this is some amazing stuff


robleong(Posted 2003) [#19]
Amazing stuff! I can see the "99% perspiration" here... :)


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#20]
.


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#21]
@ Masterbeaker ... errr....

We come baring gifts of the botty.



Heh, baring gifts...

Toejam... ummm....



Oh yeah - same eyestalk thing. Never played the T&E games but I see they're making a new 'un.


@ Smurfpuss

I use Van Aken clay, and Jovi plastilina. I kind of prefer the jovi but Van Aken has other advantages (it can be melted and re-set). The alien is a combination of Jovi and fimo. It contains no bones or armatures, it's just a solid lump. Cletus himself was very different, a full skeleton covered with a flexible skin. Better models do make the job easier, but sometimes I like to just use a big old lump, which gives you the cartoon-like ability to deform and exaggerate stuff.


i think i better woulde have made it in 3d



Of course! Any sane person would! That's why I have no competition...


DarkNature(Posted 2003) [#22]
Anthony, you are the man!

Your clay-mation work never ceases to amaze me. You must have the patience of a saint, homeboy.

I'm dying to see this in action.

Have fun.


Mustang(Posted 2003) [#23]
Wow - much better than any DOOMIII stuff... I'm *so* impressed!


Zo Zo Zee Zar(Posted 2003) [#24]
"Take me to your leader. We wish to meet the creature you call 'Ravey'. We come baring gifts of the botty."


oi get ya hands off me carrot!

i think we can all learn something from this: if aliens invade earth remain seated at all times.


Dr Derek Doctors(Posted 2003) [#25]
As well as differing colours are you gonna' have different helmet types like one that's armour clad which takes more battering to put down permanently?

Also, any other types of alien in there like floating ones (which'd require less animation 'coz of no walk-cycle)? Just curious about how much variety there'll be in the foes.


Rob(Posted 2003) [#26]
This is the bloody cutting edge of gaming. I'm buying this as soon as it's released, no questions asked.

MINE! MINE!

Anthony - why not have a making of diary on your site? you can send this to mag reviewers too and start up the hype machine all nice and early... :)

and... I look forwards to this more than DoomIII & all the rest put together. A refreshing change.


Psycoach(Posted 2003) [#27]
Thanks a lot for sharing this "behind the scene" pictures Anthony : I am an absolute fan of your work.

Regarding the music, I'd ask you two favors :
- Since my wife saw the platypus demo and bought your game, I hear this music everyday (our both computers are in the same room). I love your tunes, but since it implies 1-2 hours a day audition time for me, everyday, I'd be very glad to take part in the process of choosing them for your next game ;-)
- Making your next game a bit easier than Platypus would be nice of you also : Platypus works on a 1 area = 1 music basis.
We at home enter now our third week in a row stuck in area 2...
I keep a little bottle of champagne in the fridge for when the area 2 will be beaten, both of us will have something to celebrate when this area is over ;-)

Congratulations again for your wonderfull work ! :-)


cyberseth(Posted 2003) [#28]
No way, a new T&E game?? In my opinion, Toejam & Earl had the best, most funky music out of all console games ever!!! :D :D :D It even had a cool option where you could play the game music and use your joypad buttons to rap along to it! Wicked!!

http://www.christianaupairs.com/seth/toejam&earl.mid <---

Oh and when's a new demo coming out, Anthony? I never got a hold of your previous one!

TOEJAM&EARL MUSIC HERE:


rsbrowndog(Posted 2003) [#29]
Outstanding stuff, oh what I would give to be talented!!!

Cheers,

Ryan


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#30]
Looking at your place, you definitely live in Japan. :)
Any chance of a picture of the master behind the clay?


Dr Derek Doctors(Posted 2003) [#31]
Lawks! It all sounds reet lovely. I especially like the idea of having to squish the plants early on to save yourself hassle later on. Are you perhaps considering having some levels structured like Defender whereby the introduction on enemies is strictly timed so that after X seconds a squad of aliens beams in at a particular location and after Y seconds something else happens so that the player has to dash from place to place to get the drop on the enemies and it makes people who are familiar with the level able to deal with it easily, make it nice and learnable.

Btw, you mention random moving enemies. Truly random or semi-predictable as I hate dying because of something I had no control over like the stompers in the Monty games?


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#32]
Oh god... well lucky for you I'm really procrastinating hard right now, so what the heck.

Here's me, 5 minutes ago, in my well-organised and spacious game development studio, demonstrating the way I can make my camera take a picture by clicking the mouse button. In this picture you can also see my incredible sound system, which I found in our neighbour's rubbish, and the cup from the cup of tea I had an hour ago. Time for another I think.



Now you have to do the same. Fair's fair.


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#33]
Dr Derek - well, much as I do like that sort of thing, after the major hassle of scripting Platypus, ship by bloody ship, I'm quite keen to do this one without quite so much direct dictation from me. But fear not, I'll be taking great pains to make sure it stays fair - funny you should mention the stompers in the Monty games, they are perhaps the thing I hated most in any game in the history of time; many were the occasions when them stompers nearly caused me to insert a joystick into the television screen.


Dr Derek Doctors(Posted 2003) [#34]
Well, it's your game. However I shall now be noisily boycotting it and denouncing you as the devil. ;)

And anyhoo, if you'd had more sense on Platypus you'd have co-ordinated it wave by wave instead. :)


-=Darkheart=-(Posted 2003) [#35]
Anthony it looks really nice, keep plugging away.

Darkheart


Réno(Posted 2003) [#36]
that's really good...


Tracer(Posted 2003) [#37]
Awesome Ant! Can't wait.

Tracer


Zo Zo Zee Zar(Posted 2003) [#38]
this is me without a hair cut




Beaker(Posted 2003) [#39]
Anthony - you really left-handed or you just trying to be fashionable? :P

ENAY - you looks even more scary now than you did when I saw you in real life.

Ravey - when you gonna update your piccies?


Gabriel(Posted 2003) [#40]
I'm confused. If the guy with the dark hair is Ravey and the guy with the fair hair is Anthony.. which Blitzer is the fat guy with his eyes on stalks?


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#41]

And anyhoo, if you'd had more sense on Platypus you'd have co-ordinated it wave by wave instead. :)



Well quite early on in the process I was able to start block copying and pasting them a wave at a time, so really I was doing it by wave, but it still got the better of me. I probably should have made the script a little more intuitive so that I could have farmed it out to volunteers...

But early on in this one I decided I wanted to make a game where each level consisted of basically setting events in motion and letting it play out after its own fashion. I think it will allow *me* to enjoy it more ;o) - still I'm not ruling out the possibility of the occasional scripted event if I think it's warranted.

Oh, and hi guys :o) I'm not left handed but I had no choice, trying to face the camera and click the mouse button at the same time.


Foppy(Posted 2003) [#42]
It looks very good, but don't forget, what counts is the clayability!


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#43]
Not for a second. If this game doesn't end up a big bag of fun, I'll consider it a total failure. And I'll be rather upset. But it seems to be going okay. Not the greatest game EVER, but not bad.


Zo Zo Zee Zar(Posted 2003) [#44]
I'm left handed coz im speshul.


Rob Farley(Posted 2003) [#45]
Lefty here too!


Psycoach(Posted 2003) [#46]
I guessed that Anthony used his left hand only to take the picture with the mouse because if were left-handed he wouldn't have put his mousepad on the right.


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#47]
I'm ambidextrous, so there :P


Psycoach(Posted 2003) [#48]
@Enay : I understand better now why you found Platypus easy... ;-)


Red Ocktober(Posted 2003) [#49]
so... wait a minute!!!!

... lemme get this straight...

are you doin the animations with a claymation figure, and photgraphing em (digital or other and digitizing) to use in your game?

by the way, nice alien (who's idea was it to use an upside down jelly jar for his space helmet :) )

--Mike


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#50]
Yup, that's what I do.


Foppy(Posted 2003) [#51]
>> who's idea was it to use an upside down jelly jar for his space helmet

Well, it's either the jar that is upside down or the alien, so...


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#52]
The hardest thing about Platypus really was requiring an auto fire spasm hand to fire rapidly.


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#53]
Yes, I think this is probably where most people have the most trouble, I designed it as an old-school button-thumper, and as such, it sucks on joypads. You really need to be getting at least a good six shots in a second at top speed...

As for the jelly jar... actually, I shot it seperately, chopped the label part out of the middle (it was a long, tall olive jar), joined the 2 ends together and overlaid it onto the photo. So there you go.

For the proper one, I'm going to spend more time making it look less jar-like, more boiling-tube shaped I think.


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#54]
> You really need to be getting at least a good
> six shots in a second at top speed...

That's probably where I do so well. If I'm trying my best I can almost fire as fast as that blue auto fire power up. The way to achieve this is not press the button at all but emulate having a seizure in your arm where by you put the button quickly. I'm using a joypad though.
It's essential you get as many shots as possible on the bosses when you have rockets while you can. If you die too early. It's very difficult to complete the bosses with just your regular weapons and no extra spinning satellites.
It's difficult to see where you are and where the bullets are due to all the rocket steam.


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#55]
I do regret that losing a life sometimes makes you suffer too much. Particulary in places like the level 2 boss, where I generally would lose either no lives, or half a dosen. but let's not forget it was my first finished game ;o) so live and learn... I was glad to get the damn thing finished full stop!

I'm sure my next game will have its flaws too; and the one after that...


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#56]
It's the same with any game though where you can power up your ship. R-Type, Paradious, Gradius. It was even worse in those games however as you'd have to repeat certain parts of the level with the most basic ship.
The trick is, get skilled and DON'T DIE. :)


Ginger Tea(Posted 2003) [#57]
In this picture you can also see my incredible sound system, which I found in our neighbour's rubbish


iir they do that alot over there
this is a month old its obsolete
in the bin you go

mind you if you want some mdf come to my job in oldham and root through our skip


Ginger Tea(Posted 2003) [#58]
hmm another use for the nostromo speed pad
as well as configing it for quill3D i could use that so i dont get rsa with my normal keyboard [its got a nice wrist rest] playing platypus [which i must reinstall now ive killed some files]


Red Ocktober(Posted 2003) [#59]
... well that's pretty neat.

Claymation revival of sorts... must've take a loooooong time to get it 'just' right.

Hey, the 'space helmet' looks alright as it is... it should come across ok in the digitization...

--Mike


Ginger Tea(Posted 2003) [#60]
time and skill

i lack both.


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#61]
You do a fine MerryGrim dance though.


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#62]

iir they do that alot over there
this is a month old its obsolete
in the bin you go



Not so much since the economy has given everyone a reality check. But we did get a nice coffee table the other day. Reluctant to go crazy scoring stuff though, space is limited, and throwing things away is very expensive!


It's the same with any game though where you can power up your ship.



I know but that was the thing that always annoyed me about those games! I meant for Platypus not to be like that (so much), and I guess it's not AS bad, but some parts are still quite bad. Oh well, it made sense at the time...


Dr Derek Doctors(Posted 2003) [#63]
One of the approaches I like in shooters is for you to only lose a couple of weapons when you pop yer clogs. There's an excellent shooter called Spacehog by Johan Peitz (www.freelunchdesign.com) which takes this appraoch. I genuinely believe it's one of the best shooters available for the PC despite the lo-res and not entirely spectacular graphics I've come back to it and completed it many, many times.


Ginger Tea(Posted 2003) [#64]
X-out tried this approach
you could buy up to three ships and then load em up with goodies

when you died you reverted to back up ship with all the hardware you chose for it.

i edited the xenon2000 mappy file and took out all enemies save for the boss, if you died fighting him what you could pick up after the checkpoint didnt seem like much compared to the vast amourie you had first time round.


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#65]

One of the approaches I like in shooters is for you to only lose a couple of weapons when you pop yer clogs.



Me too. For any power up, up, up, up type game it's practically essential. I hate those games that go from really easy to impossible after losing your first life. One of the things I tried to do with Platypus was to try to make sure that although the weapons were a big help, they didn't completely overbalance the gameplay. And becuase they didn't power up, you could easily get back to where you were before.

I rather like the idea of doing a money-based one too. Which I will probably investigate in my next game. You buy your ship, and buy the weapons for it. The more you spend, the better everything is, but of course if you lose it that's a lot of cash down the drain. I'd probably have it so you don't get the money back when you finish the level, either. So the trick is, in each level, to spend just the right amount, not to spend more than you can make off a level. And of course you earn money as you go, so in later levels you can spend up larger. And you can save your game too, but this also costs money.


Ginger Tea(Posted 2003) [#66]
now there is a plan

in some 3D space shooters there is an element of piracy but in a 2D game the only thing you pick up is a powerup.

i remember ages ago thinking of having the trading element from startopia by itself but devoid of a game save accumilating cash and stock.
but tbh if you pick up things enroute you could be given the option to sell them ala xenon2 and forgotten realms [although i only recall buying]

supercars 2 also had a buy better screen and my brother accidentally cheated cos his name is Richard and he typed Rich in the box and Rich he became.


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#67]
It could have been far worse Anthony, you could have made people repeat the entire boss with no powerups like on R-Type. :)

I think Platypus is fine. It makes me feel Elite knowing it's only me that appears to have finished the game and also knowing there are no infinite life cheats (I hope).
Muahahhahaaahahahahahaahahha.


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#68]
Nope, there aren't because I have no trouble completing it either.


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#69]
We'd be experts Anthony if we played together on your game.
I was so close to beating your top score as well.
I've only managed to complete it once on a 2 player starting from the first level.
The mine field is hard on a 2 player. If one person screws up, the other player is practically dead also.


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#70]
Yeah, it's a bit nasty like that. I probably should have made it so that only the person who hit the mine gets hurt. But then I never really had a chance to play it 2 player (didn't have any good co-pilots!)

Does it play okay 2P? Easier? Harder? Do you score about the same?


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#71]
It depends. It can be easier. Certainly when your mate is doing well. Normally me and my mate can finish the entire first level without losing a life and getting 100% on each section (usually)
We normally have 8 or 9 lives each by the second stage.
I swear it's nigh on impossible to get 100% kills on any of the sections after the first level, even on 2 player.

Problems start on that mine bit. Although when one player dies we find it a general rule to go mad and kill as many mines as possible before you go down. Making it easier when you both get back on. We NEVER fire a bullet and just hope for the best. Most of our lives are lost on the second boss if we don't do well. Usually I can almost kill the boss without losing a life, and with my machine gun hand firing 3 rockets at once, the boss goes down quite quick. Especially if my mate survives a while with his 3 way rockets too.
It's those homing rockets that are difficult.
The music always cuts out on this bit as there are so many rocket sounds being fired.

Third level, starts off easy enough, until the volcano erupts. This bit is HARD. Then comes the big ship level. Once I've got 3 way rockets the music cuts out again. The next section at the docks is pretty tough. The trick is just to avoid going for the boats at all and just shoot the missiles, unless you're on 2 player that is where one person can attempt to get the boat.

The boss on this level is tough, probably the hardest in the game. It's so hard to dodge those bullets that bounce upwards and since you can't shoot the boss half of the time, most lives are lost here. We just kamikaze shoot into the boss whenever we die and have invulnerability.

Last level is a doddle. It just seems to be easy, even though there are lots of ships. And once we get the lightning guns, the rest of the level although crowded is a breeze, and my mate here normally gains about 5 or 6 extra lives as he's usually lost a credit or two here, so plenty of extra lives to be gained. The last boss is quite tough. Although not as hard as the last. Same again, if you can survive a long time with your three way rockets, you'll be fine in the long run.

And there you have it, game complete. :)


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#72]
Hey, thanks for the breakdown! Seems I play a LITTLE differently... here's my 1 player experience.

First level - I can get between 98%-100% on each level, can't guarantee those 100%s by myself though. If I was going for a monster score, I would probably do the get-through-the-first-area-without-killing-anything-or-dying trick; Providing you don't die in subsequent levels, it pays off. Usually have 10 or more lives by the end of the first stage, hopefully still with my points doubler ready to score big points at the start of level 2!

Second level - so you don't shoot the crates in the second minefield? If you can get the hang of this, you can come out of the minefield with points doubler and weapon pods (as you can see me doing in one of the demos) , and clean up in area 4, getting 100%. Incidentally, it should be technically possible to get 100% scores most of the way through the game, though unlikely! I've managed to score them unexpectedly in even high levels, but rarely! There is a way through the minefield that you can take every time for minimum hassles - the trouble is, in 2 player, if you can't both do it, you're both screwed! I should really have done something about that, but as I say, 2 player really was under-tested.

2nd level boss - I can get through perfectly about half the time. The trick with the homing missiles is to move to the right, get them to come after you, then go left and they'll wander straight into your line of fire. But the main thing on the level 2 boss is to destroy those 2 side-engine-thingies early. Destroy the engine part as soon as you can see them (before they start firing). Then destroy the main (ship) section. Don't destroy the next ship section until those side bits are both dead, or you'll have to face homing missiles AND bullet sprays at once.

3rd level - I agree, the hardest, and also my favourite (I find those fast little red ships really add to the excitement quite nicely; I was well pleased with them). I agree the eruption part is pure evil. I hate that part, and usually lose a couple of lives here. Still, it looks pretty :o)

The 3rd area, all big ships, is kind of a bonus area. Do it right and you'll get heaps and heaps of points, and be all powered up, which should let you cream through area 4. The structure of this level is basically, get all weaponed up, kil a bunch of harmless ships, face something nasty, repeat. If you can get through the nasties without dying, you can rack up big points and get another 100%

Interestingly, I always take out the ships in the docks. If I've still got the weapon pods and lots of rockets it's fine; since you can hit them as soon as they arrive on screen they often don't even get a chance to fire.

Level 3 boss - surely the nastiest part of the game. I've beaten it without dying ONCE. I think you really have to not rush in when it's in submarine form, take your time, don't get too greedy scoring hits. Concentrate on not dying. The big bullets coming off the top are evil, but doable with practice, if you know the right time to run through. Also get a few hits in when you first see the periscope; this actually does count! Getting through the first part without dying is crucial - you need those weapon pods in the second phase! If you can keep them, even for a while, you can cause big damage on the flying part.

The 4th stage - TBH, I didn't spend as much time on it as the other 3; I was impatient to get the game finished and I think it does show a little. Still you get to have some fun with the lightning guns :o) - I have a feeling this level would be much easier in 2 player mode; in single player I still find it reasonably tough.


DarkEagle(Posted 2003) [#73]
anthony... how do you do the collisions in cletus? i know your using 3D stuff but are you using blitzs built in collisions? or some other home-brew method?

looking really good though :)


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#74]
I'd say he's using his own bounding box method.


Zenith(Posted 2003) [#75]


Cackle, I may be high, but I'm sure not high.


DarkEagle(Posted 2003) [#76]
id say you were just ugly ;)


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#77]
I'd say I'm using my own bounding box method.


Zo Zo Zee Zar(Posted 2003) [#78]
Is he using his own bounding box method?


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#79]
I say I am. And I am.


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#80]
I might have to install Platypus again and have another go.


Zenith(Posted 2003) [#81]
Haha


Neuro(Posted 2003) [#82]
damm you guys are ugly :-)


Beaker(Posted 2003) [#83]
I say he is as ugly as a bounding box.


Anthony Flack(Posted 2003) [#84]
I say you're all bounders.


(tu) ENAY(Posted 2003) [#85]
Look out! Someone has stolen one of Ravey's pics.


DarkEagle(Posted 2003) [#86]
anthony... do you wear bounding boxers?

and how have you implemented this method? tell me now or il put up a new site: "www.Plasticene-XXX-Cletus-Naked.com"