Roguelike

Community Forums/Showcase/Roguelike

AdamStrange(Posted 2015) [#1]
After the object loading issues. I decided to go back to the start and write a simple roguelike - with a few additions.

So presenting:


This shows the basic UI, etc.

It is a traditional Roguelike, with turn-by-turn movement. But it is also realtime (similar to Brogue) in that the display will animate.
Shown here is a single tile fire that got a bit out of hand and became a slowly moving inferno - this was not turn based, but had a life of it's own.

You can also see I have moved some of the display into 3d, but without sacrificing the ascii style.


Matty(Posted 2015) [#2]
I have to say....I don't particularly like it. It is ugly as. That's probably not entirely your own fault since Rogue/Brogue is hardly pretty by any stretch of the imagination.

It might look better in motion is all I can say.

Oh...filthy is spelled incorrectly.

I say all of this which may sound harsh but then I think everyone on these boards realises that you are capable of much more than this based on your previous work - it's not up to your usual high standards. - could be an issue with the type of game chosen though.


RemiD(Posted 2015) [#3]
So you gave up the game with the wizard/sorcerer ? I say you should not, this looked promising.


Steve Elliott(Posted 2015) [#4]
Whatever problems you're experiencing mate - get back on it. This is a waste of your time.


AdamStrange(Posted 2015) [#5]
Thanks guys - i really need that :)

OK, here's a quick rundown of the problems ;(
1. el capitan (osx) and blitz are not too happy
2. my 3d core has a subtle problem relating to loading many (+800) objects. this means the core needs to be looked at. and when I say looked at I mean rewritten in parts :|
3. tried Blitz NG, but have a real problem with the editor (To me, it's like nails down blackboard every time i run it) - I want line numbers, I want a minimap, I really would like profiling too...
4. Blitz NG won't work with my framework without major time given to converting code
5. Max has now decided to crash on compiling (even when restoring from backup), and this crash has spread to a complete system crash (Don't ask, just don't)

so...
I like blitz (I really do), but the editor is at best awful. To make anything i've had to craft many system level functions - write opengl, write shaders, heavily modify audio, etc with no support and little help.

I'd like to be able to write code in an environment which doesn't regularly crash (it's text, why crash when I close a file, why?)

I find myself drawn to xcode, if only for the editor :/


Brucey(Posted 2015) [#6]
tried Blitz NG, but have a real problem with the editor

NG has nothing to do with editors... so in effect you are talking about BlitzMax in general with the IDE - although you don't need to use the IDE if you don't want to.

Blitz NG won't work with my framework without major time given to converting code

Well, that depends of course how you implemented all your low-level stuff and Strictness. The majority of my BlitzMax modules required no changes (or at best a couple of line tweaks) to work with NG.

To make anything i've had to craft many system level functions - write opengl, write shaders, heavily modify audio, etc with no support and little help.

Most BlitzMax users use what's there, because it works. It may not be even remotely efficient at its job, but it works. You'll be hard pushed to find many here who want or even know how to make it better.

I'd like to be able to write code in an environment which doesn't regularly crash

I dunno why you have so many problems with everything. Almost points to something else. My BlitzMax is pretty rock-solid. The IDE I use most often is a 64-bit NG-build, and I honestly cannot remember the last time it crashed - if at all.
Sure, line numbers would be nice - I haven't got around to it yet... too many other distractions. I'm spoiled on Linux, as my MaxIDE there has line numbers...

Profiling on OSX works well for me. The OpenGL profiling is pretty awesome, if only I knew how to take what it tells me and change the code to use it...


Mithril(Posted 2015) [#7]
Use BLIDE (assuming you have a PC, and not just a mac).. that is good enough. Granted, it costs but not much. I am however, curious as to what type of crashes you are experiencing?


AdamStrange(Posted 2015) [#8]
I'm on a mac and using the IDECE (community edition) - this has been modified to add new icons and also to modify some of the window sizes to make them fit the mac.

So crashes...
1. The main one is the ide freezing and quitting - usually when shutting multiple documents - There is no rhyme or reason to this, as it can happen anytime. but usually once every 1-3 days (I now leave windows open instead)

2. I've had this at times with different flavours of OSX, I just didn't recognise them at the time - On compilation, the app runs, and when you quit. I get a dialog saying "Compile Error:" no biggie, but it points to something a bit off somewhere?

3. The recent one (started before upgrading to El Capitan) is the app compiles and runs (and a very rare few times) just stops and instantly crashes the entire system (I did see something about AMD in the latest report?)
- I put this down to the audio subsystem as when playing iTunes and heavy audio seemed make it happen.

4. latest crash is related to 2. I started to get the compile error dialog, So did a module rebuild (the system crashed when starting to compile), and the modules no won't rebuild with "Compiler error"
- anything now compiled either get the compile dialog or a full system crash (depending on what app was being compiled)

I think I should also make clear that these can be big projects. not open window do something to play checkers - we're talking big (easily 5,000-25,000+). some with many loaded items (800+). And they are threaded and there can be a lot of data.

But to be honest - it was generally livable with. just getting more and more less so


LT(Posted 2015) [#9]
After switching to BLIDE, I could never go back to MaxIDE.


Gabriel(Posted 2015) [#10]
Well at the risk of being difficult ("What's new?" I hear you ask!) I think it looks good. The sorceror project had a wildly inconsistent artstyle with a bunch of items which didn't gel nicely. This has a nice, consistent style and you can still mix the ascii stuff with the 3D map. I like it.


Jason W.(Posted 2015) [#11]
I enjoy your art style.

Jason


Brucey(Posted 2015) [#12]
So crashes...

Crashes on OSX GUI apps give nice reports, in an effort to help you track down where there is an issue...


AdamStrange(Posted 2015) [#13]
mmmmm, Brucey :)

OK, if you can help with this one (no two problems) then...

1. max app compiles, runs and crashes the system, completely, automatic reboot, bang, gone - so where to start debugging that?

2. max app in debug mode has an error. run app, app itself stops (debugger got it), No Sorry debugger just returns dialog "Error was found" no line, no nothin. just an error! How to you debug that?

(Can I grab my popcorn?)

OK. serious for a moment. in the last post or so someone mentioned hidden files in the OS X .app folders - whats actually in these?

<Just done a clean install 1.51 and that compile error dialog keeps coming up>


Brucey(Posted 2015) [#14]
OK. serious for a moment.

It doesn't seem you are muchly interested in getting to the bottom of these issues...


RemiD(Posted 2015) [#15]
Since you have used Blitzmax (and it can also be ran on windows and on linux) and since (if i remember correctly) you have used opengl for the graphics. Why don't you try to edit/compile/debug your code on windows or on linux (or to a previous version of osx) to see if the problem is related to your code or to Blitzmax or to the os ? (it may be difficult to know if the problem comes from your code or from Blitzmax, but at least you would be sure that it is not related to the os...)


degac(Posted 2015) [#16]
@AdamStrange

After so much work I would like to find where the error is... just rumbling about IDE/OS/BMX/wtf! doesn't bring a solution (unfortunately:D).

Using another machine / different OS could let you trace the error, maybe is in your source code.
You could try to use another IDE (not MaxIDE) or terminal just to compile your source to see if there's an interaction between using MaxIDE, compiling, loading etc.

You wrote about the fact your source code is very big: could you split in different file to help compiling/loading in MaxIDE? Maybe this is the problem (or cause the problem).

I'm quite sure that on Mac OS system there are (by default) very handy help-tools to analyse running (and crushing...) application (some things I would like to see on Windows...)

I think stopping now would be a complete defeat!

ps: if you are working on another project, there's always the *risk* that the problem you found while developing the Mage-RGP-think is still present.
At the point?


AdamStrange(Posted 2015) [#17]
Degac - you raise an interesting point about using a different IDE to compile. Just used the original IDE and it compiled without other errors - yay!

Don't get too pleased though. I got something else coming up in the code output:

2015-10-07 12:41:14.571 mood.mt[43198:641958] 12:41:14.567 WARNING: 140: This application, or a library it uses, is using the deprecated Carbon Component Manager for hosting Audio Units. Support for this will be removed in a future release. Also, this makes the host incompatible with version 3 audio units. Please transition to the API's in AudioComponent.h.

So it looks like the audio unit will have to be recoded, or edited to keep max in line with Apple? So I suppose we have at best a year before a new OS and the audio system will stop working?


Mithril(Posted 2015) [#18]
If you have no input, and a bug that just halts the application (or even the whole machine) I usually put in some log outputs sprinkled around the code, just to get some initial bearing as to where thing break. Once I found where, I edit the code there to be more detailed in its output. However, since you also say it happens 1-3 days in a somewhat regular basis, it suggests to me that it could actually be a hardware issue. Faulty memory unit is a good candidate for that type of error. But it is all guesswork, as you don't really provide much to go on. Anyway, if you can check the hardware for errors, I suggest you do it.


Steve Elliott(Posted 2015) [#19]

The sorceror project had a wildly inconsistent artstyle with a bunch of items which didn't gel nicely.



Well that was a work-in-progress - with feedback from the guys...Are you seriously saying text on a quad is better?

IMO Adam is producing some cool projects...But wish he'd stick to one...The Zarch game was looking good too! :)


degac(Posted 2015) [#20]
@AdamStrange


A warning is not an error :D (let's see the positive side ahahah)

Seriously, OSs (Apple in particular) evolve very quick, so for sure some 'components' will became obsolete at some point in the future.
The hope is that Mark (or any other user) can *fix* or update these (or maybe a solution could be a completely new audio module).


Brucey(Posted 2015) [#21]
So I suppose we have at best a year before a new OS and the audio system will stop working?

Yep... abandon hope, all ye who enter here...

... or spend 5 mins updating the code to use AudioComponent instead.


Gabriel(Posted 2015) [#22]
Well that was a work-in-progress - with feedback from the guys...Are you seriously saying text on a quad is better?

I completely understand that it was a WIP but turning that into something consistent and good looking was going to be a lot of work. Work that could be spent on the actual game itself. This game already has a consistent look and doesn't need a lot of work on graphics. It feels like a much more manageable project to me.

Am I seriously saying that text on a quad is better? Honestly, yes. It's like saying "Are you seriously saying that Superbrothers: Sword and Sorcery EP looks better than Doom 3?" They're impossible to truly compare and personal taste comes into it so much. It's a very stylistic look and it will totally work for some (like me) and totally won't for others (like you).

But I honestly like it better because it sets out its own artstyle, it's completely consistent, it doesn't require any media and the ascii text is just so RIGHT for a roguelike.


Why0Why(Posted 2015) [#23]
Adam,

You have talent, but you hop around more than me :) I liked the look and feel of the other one.

I mentioned in that thread that I am a huge roguelike fan from way back. I'm talking Moria on an old 386 with ASCII.sys to get colored letters. Between Moria and Andband I have spent untold hours. All that said, I appreciate what you are trying to do with this project, but I would like to see some graphics too.