Hardwired/Hybrid - DX9 and DX11 Userlib (Part XII)
Community Forums/Showcase/Hardwired/Hybrid - DX9 and DX11 Userlib (Part XII)
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| For beginners to Hardwired or Hybrid, don't hesitate to refer to this link for a guide and FAQ. New worklog entry - IDE Fix n°2 Find and replace now work in IDE and a nice new splash screen has been added to Hybrid.... |
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| Ah, many thanks. Dunno what you changed, but now can indeed run the interplanetary demo again. - However, I do get the occasional crash while running, with a msg saying "Cannot create dx mesh for some silly reason". - Also noticed that what you mentioned earlier(z-order being off) might be true: I sometimes see Jupiter before the Sun's rays while should be behind these quads. - Like the splash screen, the desktop icon might need a little polishing cos it's too hard to distinguish the "H" from the bottom platform; itsy bitsy too dark/blurry(at least on my Windows7 at 1280x800), but this is of minor importance of course. * Btw: your "this link" in post#1 doesn't work any more, since I updated that post with a link to the "current thread" to be XII(this one). That apparently changed the link to my info page also. However if you now change it to the updated link, the link to thread XII will also again change and mismatch in my post(going round & round in circles lol) so I've changed post#1 to be only the title making it possible to use post#1 as a permanent link. When something changes/needs to be updated, I only have to change post#2 so won't happen again in when applying future updates. Here's the correct link for anyone interested: guide and FAQ. |
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| @Ploppy: I just found a glitch that needs fixed... These are a couple of bad ones. 1) LoadTexture() needs support for DDS format. Otherwise, it crashes the entire program. ------------------- 2) For some reason when I load my animated B3D mesh, it crashes. In regular blitz3D, it works fine. ------------------- 3) LockBuffer() & UnlockBuffer() -- { Quite possibly WritePixelFast() }, { Quite possibly ReadPixelFast() } 4) Extension to number 2 -- { Quite possibly LockBuffer BackBuffer() & UnlockBuffer BackBuffer() } The code for the above 2 :: ------------------- 5) I also noticed a rather annoying IDE bug as well that makes it difficult to maintain my code... Everytime you move the blinker (cursor) to the right, the screen shakes... ------------------- Thanks again for this awesome program! =) Keep up the GREAT work! =) ~*GF |
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| Thanks GuyFawkes for the support, I'll check it out... :D |
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| Although I no longer use Blitz3D, this might just drag me back, amazing stuff! Keep up the good work Ploppy! |
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| Thanks for the compliment Ian - really helps motivate me too. I have to say that sometimes I think I'll never get to the end of this project or that it is getting a bit tough, but comments such as yours help me to see past that and focus on my goal to really spurn me on. Thanks again... |
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| You're quite welcome, Ploppy! =) |
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| I am allowed writing a 3d editor with Hardwired/Hybrid and publish it commercially? license for commercial use? The idea is like that and that. |
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| My current license in included is the release.zip archive, in the hybrid folder. |
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| Any luck with the LoadAnimMesh / LoadMesh problem, @Ploppy? Or do you need my 3D model for testing? |
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| For the moment, I am not working on that GF. Sorry, I cannot react on this immediately. I have noted, and I will move onto that but not for the moment.... |
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| New worklog entry - Hybrid Help Hybrid now has help files integrated into it just like B3D, some bug fixes have been made also.... |
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| edited What is it meant to my last question; factly? I do not like projects in that some license is replaced trough another file. Ok it is your opinion. This is what i WILL EFFECTIVELY RESPECT. So please give me/other a real license idea for real commercial use. |
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| @ShadowTurtle If you mean: 1. Can you use Hardwired/Hybrid to write a commercial 3d editor which you can sell for a profit: Sure. 2. Can you bundle Hardwire/Hybrid with it to make a profit: Questionable, as for the moment it's free software and should remain free for everyone(at least until the first final release or till Ploppy changes his mind), unless Ploppy gives you a license for reselling(maybe an idea?). I think you can't use it like this for it would mean making a profit of Ploppy's work while it's already free for everyone. However you could include a link to it in your own software of course as long as you point out to your customers that Hardwire/Hybrid is free. (correct me if I'm wrong Ploppy) |
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| Ugh.. @ShadowTurtle, don't ruin free for the rest of us... >< |
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| In the past my idea was featuring a editor that required blitz3d. So i would have the way going a partnership. The editor had in the original version some extra features: 1. assign scripts to objects 2. game template frameworks written in blitz3d 3. object properities from levels/maps are useable in any script at runtime Today i am able doing this with a new modern engine like Ploppys. It is more than a directx wrapper(!). I know that some components may be flushed out that way (licenses). In that case it is my problem. Example: I do not need vlc-video-playback. Use bink for this task is a realiable option. So it is Ok. It is the basement engine that is attractive. I think i can support a real modern engine that can be featured trough a really good 3d editor. My win is another one than money (at moment). So i can give 70% of the win since my real-time-job is another one (!!). So please give me/other a real license idea for real commercial use bundled with Hardwire/Hybrid. Going to achieve this could be easy. Mark Sibly is going needing help, others are MONKEYs, the creator of the leadwerks engine is counting clicks as evangelist and the products from "the game creators" are hopeless outdated in one year. ;-) The best time doing a partnership is now. The age of the old etablished blitz3d-compiler-infrastructure is regardless since ploppy is showing us the engine is important. But.. the engine is needing a good tool to do achieve things easier. Ok.. the blitz3d-compiler-infrastructure is old... but it is etablished. |
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| Hardwired/Hybrid is still very much in developement, and it will be for a while. I still have a lot to do, a LOT of loose ends to tie up. I do not recommend developing a serious program using it for the moment because things can and will change in my code and of course there are many bugs and omissions. It is definately taking shape and is pretty stable in its present form, but it is far from complete. It is your choice if you wish to try it to make one of your own projects, but I personally think it is too soon apart from dabbling with it (making tests/demos). I would personally recommend Blitz3d itself if you wish to program an editor, it is very robust and it has all the means necessary to create a decent editor in my opinion. I have to say that I am still not entirely happy with my current license, but the majority of it corresponds to my wishes. I may change it before I release a final version (this will I repeat be in some time - much left to do), but I wish to keep the following factors as part of my license... 1> That users can distribute Hybrid/Hardwired and/or projects compiled with them freely with no charge. Hybrid and Hardwired should be distributed with the accompanying license. Compiled hybrid projects are not obliged to be accompanied with the licence document. 2> Hardwired/Hybrid users do not claim that the code used for hardwired is thier own work and do not try to sell it in my own place 3> Credits for my work would be appreciated but not compulsory I do not wish that hybrid compiled projects have to be distributed with its license, it is not necessary and would be unfortunate for developers wishing to use my engine to have to include the license file every time. However, if understand correctly the current hardwired license states that the license should be supplied. This is the part of the licence I wish to change. I do not wish to restrain users in this way. I wish for hardwired to remain free, so that it is available to many users with no strings attached, just like B3D is. ShadowTurtle, I saw your original edit of your last post and understood that if I had another license (more commercial) that you would be willing to share the money if you sold your product (at least that is what I understood). Although I will never say I do not need the money (of course I do, like most people - I have a simple salary that pays a basic wage) I still do not wish to change my license to gain money from hardwired. By holding a paid lisence Hardwired will lose much interest from many people; which is quite understandable, I know I would and I want HW to succeed. If I wish to gain anything out of my programming it is that I will finally release something that people really use - this will be very satisfying if I ever get that far. At the same time I would love to get myself a good reputation for my programming effort that could eventually lead me to a programming career perhaps, which would be great but perhaps a bit of a dream. If I could have Hardwired as part of my cv, I could possibly get a job in that industry. All I can suggest is that if you wish to share any proceeds from a sold project is that you donate the amount you wish or not at all, it's totally up to you - but believe me that any and all donations are greatly welcomed. However, I still will not waiver from a free license, for me this is the way to go. I do not wish to restict HW/HY users in any way with my desired license, so I can't quite understand why this is a problem for you. |
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| It is definately taking shape and is pretty stable in it's present form Finish that shape and let the shape forever stand. So i could do my part in partnership. You did already the base engine. Ya know now the options. I have now a technical question. Are you able doing the engine runnable on android, iphone/ios, macos etc. too? Is the engine prepared doing such a task? The engine creators from the "3D Game Studio" are selling services porting a game for more than 100000€/platform (!!). I know 5(!) games from the last ~10 Years that created with the Acknex Engine (it is "3D Game Studio") that are never published and could be published today on mobile devices. Two of them maked the creator of the engine even more a rich man. You see.. a partnership is making sense and nothing seems to be free. Btw.. UE4 is not cheap for real indies(!). |
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| Hmm, actually the idea of a good 3d-editor/3d-world editor bundled with HW/HY may prove to be a rather appealing package for quite a few people. (btw: like the new HW/HY abrev.) Figured that ;-) VVVV |
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| Sorry, I dont understand 'finish that shape and let the shape forever'. Can you rephrase? In any case, a partnership does not interest me. As for your ios/android related question - no I am not. My program is complex enough already. |
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| create a set of commands that is ever proved to working before a release is pulled out. So the basement is everytime working. So had developed mark sibly its products until blitzmax. Today it is a inner promise of any dev in the industry (/should). In any case it is ok since i read you are able to change ya mind. :-) To the android-support thing: I know another good developer that is creating a polished android engine. Making a set of standardised commands could be really the next bis research/game-engine in the market for indies aside unity. You know anything about quill3d? Could be a more moderate editor than mine and useable as editor for "experts". Only a few functions are needed (read the 3 points of my last post!) :) In a partnership all things would be really easier.. but today everybody is havin its own mind.. edit: A mind that is following only single-oriented-(business)-plan. |
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| In any case, a partnership does not interest me. I don't blame you. Blitz3D went open source and nobody picked it up and ran with it - until you did. Bringing on-board opinionated others seems like a recipe for disaster. |
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| create a set of commands that is ever proved to working before a release is pulled out. So the basement is everytime working. So had developed mark sibly its products until blitzmax. Today it is a inner promise of any dev in the industry (/should). That stage is not there yet I guess, for extending the language may likely require rewriting/changing the original internal commands. Perhaps this is also what stopped Mark, as it takes a lot of rewriting? Oh and btw Ploppy: the IDE looks rather tidy like this. Good job. |
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| Steve - if I could click on 'like' for your post just like with facebook I would do so. I totally agree with you. |
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| ;) Good luck with it. |
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| I don't blame you. Blitz3D went open source and nobody picked it up and ran with it - until you did. Some people offered already partnership & working on a opensource version. Ploppy had luck found it opensource in its generation. Many others had not the luck. It seems some of the realy good programmers are gone from the community today. Ploppy is new (relatively). Today i have not the spleen doing such a task ploppy did and is continue (creating a great engine and useable with the blitz product line). It is funny... he is now doing the same wrong way as mark was in the past. But.. Ploppy is not having the way creating "BlitzMax". Ploppy: You do the hard work in ya free time? Ok the work is showing ya intelligence etc. So why not try making it a good thing that brings you more money in ya life? The userbase is here! You must not generate some one etc. But latery... the userbase is totally gone. It is a experience i did with the whole gamemaker2000 community that had about 50 active users/day and so on. Today all things are offline etc. Today you will find only bad responses on that product and how old it is etc. but its script engine is even today a tip ahead of bmax.. If you wish doin more than creating a touchable fase, so contact me ;-) and rethink the thing with partnership |
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| I really do not think there is much point in following this line of thought ShadowTurtle because you will not get anywhere with it. If you wish to make money out of a 3d engine I suggest you write one yourself or you reverse-engineer one already made. I cannot and will not help you there. The only appealing partnership I would consider would be a proposal coming from Blitz Research themselves but I really don't think they're heading that direction at all. |
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| So i do create my 3D Editor + Support-Addons for Blitz Research. In that time Blitzbasic 3D 2.0 is created by Ploppy. Think about that. In the end i talk with YOU. The difference is the basement. The community. If i am invited (the partnership) then you must not go alone the way. The only thing is.. it is to you offered that i am not tolerated from Blitz Research. In that manner you do talk already with Blitz Research about ya project intensively and interesed in a partnership with ´em. Gratualation. Or someone is suggesting that i _would_ not be tolerated (in the end). Do you come from germany? I mean i had read something about that in this manner or so.. I must do now think about new plans.. (back to job..) |
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| Boy, do I feel guilty now... |
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| Th´ya mean how i pitch my editor as product? Is it wise doin reinvent a wheel if it exists accurately as needed already? It is written in Blitz3D so it is not having features like a whummer that uses technologies only realizeable with C++ (or so). The benefit was going around some license problems and edits and integration in the product line and basement. I could doing the same with ya engine. btw. so i would have proven that ya engine is useable for application programming .--. |
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| I can't understand for a second why you think I have talked at all with Blitz Research - I never ever said I did, and I haven't for that matter. It is not very likely to happen either in my opinion. But in any case, your over-active imagination makes me respectfully giggle. I guess you can't handle the concept that some people are not necessarily looking principally for monetary profit for thier work. In any case, I would like to move on from this topic, as it's not getting us anywhere. As much as it is entertaining, I think I have made my point clear on this subject, just as I had for the open-source issue that I had to repeat several times in the past to others. |
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| @ShadowTurtle Dude, clearly you're not getting it! Ploppy already stated that he has no commercial interest on this awesome project, unless BRL has interest on it. Don't freakin' ruin this for the rest of us. I must admit it's great to commercialize a great project or product, but some people are just like to contribute to open source. And who cares about your editor, it looks like you have ruined your reputation here! ..good job pal and get a clue! *pfff* |
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| Great job as always Ploppy! thanks for the updates |
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| Sorry Ploppy. I huv see ya edit at moment. Now it is all clear. So sorry for my past posts. I still do not wish to change my license to gain money from hardwired. By holding a paid lisence Hardwired will lose much interest from many people; which is quite understandable, I know I would and I want HW to succeed. If I wish to gain anything out of my programming it is that I will finally release something that people really use - this will be very satisfying if I ever get that far. At the same time I would love to get myself a good reputation for my programming effort that could eventually lead me to a programming career perhaps, which would be great but perhaps a bit of a dream. If I could have Hardwired as part of my cv, I could possibly get a job in that industry. All I can suggest is that if you wish to share any proceeds from a sold project is that you donate the amount you wish or not at all, it's totally up to you - but believe me that any and all donations are greatly welcomed. However, I still will not waiver from a free license, for me this is the way to go. I do not wish to restict HW/HY users in any way with my desired license, so I can't quite understand why this is a problem for you. videz: A commercial product is safed into a business plan. If you really wish using the engine from plopply for a realy long time, so allowin him commercial distribution without deface peoples that wish a official commercial product. This attack is not going alone to me. I huv read some others would buy it if it where a commercial product. btw. he already stated totally cleary by now that he is not going commercial. He argues that it is for his cv and this is allways acceptable :/ my reputation is ok i think. I have worked on little fields in the german blitzbasic community. You know that i did some parts in cs2d before it was released? The thing with "bad reputation" is only swearing two peoples from the german community and they seems (badly@me) to be good admins otherwise. So it is ok. That is life. I hunt for the next project and ploppy´s one had really great potential combined with a another compiler written from a "compiler-expert" aside the partnership idea. |
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| Ok then I guess you should have just make a formal or personal offer to him about licensing and maybe he could have given you some exception. -OR- Releasing your project open source along with Ploppy's lib with paid support is also not a bad idea for a commercial model.. two words RED HAT |
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| he already stated totally cleary by now that he is not going commercial. He argues that it is for his cv and this is allways acceptable :/ I'm so glad that you approve of this. Thankyou ShadowTurtle... |
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| Ploppy. I was thinking... I have a feature request for you. Could you add compile support for tablet & iphone? Thank you! ~GF |
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| Could you add compile support for tablet & iphone? I am sure that i will be amazed how Ploppy will answer to such a question calmly and politely... "tablet" is a new os ? |
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| Could you add compile support for tablet & iphone? Technically it will already compile for Windows x86 tablets like the Surface Pro. As far as iphone/ipad: I'd wager that it's extremely unlikely, since apple requires their own toolchain to compile ANYTHING for any of the iOS devices. Hardwired is a windows program which doesn't run on MacOS. There is no way to compile a program for Mac/iPhone/iPad/whatever without compiling it on an a system running MacOS. Never going to happen on Windows, since Apple wants to sell you a Mac instead of allowing you to get your work done on a competing platform. |
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| I think from experience that the means are there to create a compiler for ios/android/mac. After all, what is MonkeyX if it isn't that? I will however be sticking to windows and not going beyond for the following reasons.... * My code is complex enough. I have already an x64 version in the pipeline, it covers DirectX9 and DirectX11 and will also become Direct12 compatible when released (I am already setting up my code for this), making all this gel together is already a lot of work. To adapt hardwired to another os would add much more work, the compiler and linker would have to be updated, and each command would have to be brought in line to make it compatible. * The internal code which is directx specific would have to be adapted to fit with the os's own internal system. This would require some serious reprogramming and functions to 'translate' to the os's own native way of handling 3d. This is likely to slow down the whole engine in my opinion. * If I did manage to get that done, which is definately possible but extemely laborious, Hybrid would effectively become a free contender to MonkeyX. It is not my intention to cripple or harm Blitz Research's sales in any way; but to take inpsiration from thier work and create a complemenary add-on. Harwired is as much a tribute to Blitz3d as it is a work in it's own right. * I wouldn't mind completing Hardwired before the year 2030! Sorry GF, but your 'feature request' is not a five minute task but a huge undertaking. |
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| As i foreseen, i am amazed. :) |
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| I think from experience that the means are there to create a compiler for ios/android/mac. After all, what is MonkeyX if it isn't that? Monkey X creates the code, but there's no tool chain on a windows Pc that will allow you to actually compile it an create a Mac/iOS binary from it as far as I am aware. If you want to publish something to iPhone from Monkey X, you will still need a Mac to perform the final compilation. |
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| [Grin] |
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| How bout this... Can you call DLLs in MonkeyX? |
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| I have no idea GF. Sorry, I personally do not use it. Check out the dedicated site. I have perused it and seems pretty informative.... |
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| New worklog entry - Various fixes |
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| @GF: Sort of! (Via a C++ wrapper.) |
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| Dunno if it's my believe but indeed appears more stable and less shaky, also when using the mouse to look round in "Interplanetary travel_Blitz3d version.bb". Not completely gone though. Appart from that I've noticed that in "test6.hb" the shaders selection doesn't function anymore due to a change in this line: shader(a)=CreatePixelShader("","..\..\shaders\shader"+a+".txt","main","ps_2_0") to: shader(a)=CreatePixelShader("","..\..\samples\samples\shaders\shader"+a+".txt","main","ps_2_0") Just so you know. |
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| Thanks Rick, That's a typo - sorry about that, it should be shader(a)=CreatePixelShader("","..\..\samples\shaders\shader"+a+".txt","main","ps_2_0") |
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| @BlitzSupport: AWESOME DUDE! =D |
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| New worklog entry - Linker directives! |
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| Indeed awesome BlitzSupport! This would add great 3d stuff to Monkey, helping Mark also. Nogo on Android etc though, just for PC's as it is DX, not OpenGL. I guess Aqualungs Irrlicht stuff would be more suitable for GL platforms as it is both DX9 & OpenGL? Dunno if would work though. One could dream up the super-duper-killer combo of HW/HY/GL, gaining Android compatibility, but probably will not happen as Ploppy indicated it's a pretty massive undertaking already as is.. Perhaps a nice X-mas present for 2030? ;-) |
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| @Ploppy. To stay in style: Awesome! No kidding. No more messing around with Resource Hacker. yippee ki yay!(as some people say) |
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| Must agree - pretty Awesome! |
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| @GF: Sort of! (Via a C++ wrapper.) @blitzsupport: Where do I find this wrapper, and is there an easy tutorial on getting hardwired to work for Monkey? I just bought monkey, and if I get hardwired and blitz3d running in it, I will be SO happy! =D Thank You! ~GF |
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| ... |
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| @blitzsupport: Where do I find this wrapper, and is there an easy tutorial on getting hardwired to work for Monkey? I just bought monkey, and if I get hardwired and blitz3d running in it, I will be SO happy! =D Thank You! ~GF |
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| @BlitzSupport: Indeed would be nice if you could explain just a little bit for then I could post it in the HW/HY FAQ's for those interested. |
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| I agree, it would be great to be able to add MonkeyX to the compatibility list so to speak. |
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| I'd just be happy to learn the steps needed to use Hardwired in Monkey 1. |
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| ....daunting times for me at the moment... I am currently working on the x64 version of Hybrid, a good half of it is done. For the x64 version I do not need to rewrite the whole code of course. However some changes need to be made in the original b3d compiler/runtime/linker code in respect of the increase in register sizes. Even worse, some parts of the compiler and the runtime code are in assembly code - a new one for me. So now I am having to convert this ASM to the x64 version register types. It is quite an adventure I'm having on this project in so many respects. I have learnt an enourmous amount about c++, HLSL and now some ASM just to get my project up and running. Since the 'birth' of hardwired, my progress have always been based on a 'let's see if I can do this...' supposition. And so far, so good. From what I have seen so far it looks as though I will be able to create an x64 version of Hybrid; which I really want to do -> it brings it so much more in line with modern programming and machines. I will only be able to test it on a virtual machine (I only have a x86 pc - I can compile x64 code but can't execute it) since I do not own and 64-bit machine. So once complete (perhaps quite soon), I will require testers to comfirm its operability. I am looking into it but it may well be possible to compile 64-bit executables with a 32-bit machine with the Hybrid compiler. You will of course only be able to execute them with a 64-bit machine; which is perfectly understandable. If I can pull this off as well it will be a great addition in all respects, giving any user the possibility to compile for both kinds of processors. For the addition of an x64 compilation I will need to add this option in the IDE. I wish the user to be able to choose whether he/she wishes to compiles his/her program as a 32-bit/64-bit or both. And for building/running a program I want the same options. So, to extend on the current IDE configuration, I would like to create a new icon set.  These are the current icons for the Hybrid IDE, taken of course from the original B3D IDE. I envisage that the new icons for the compiling programs and the new icons for running them can be 'under' the existing icons so to speak. They can be selectable icons in the IDE toolbar, similar to the 'zoom stack' icon on the example below...  I would like to take the opportunity to re-do the icons for the IDE toolbar. I feel they could be made bigger and more attractive to the eye. As always, I know my limits and I am not too into graphic designing - it's not really my field or passion. So if anyone thinks they have the time to help me design a new icon strip, I am up for suggestions. However, before setting up a new toolbar for the IDE I would like to know if any other featuresor icons could be added to the IDE. It would be a shame to create a great icon strip for the toolbar and then decide to add features to the IDE - this would mean revisiting the toolbar icon strip. If I can avoid that, I will. So if anyone has any suggestions for features that could add and improve the ide please let me know. Sensible, doable and useful suggestions please. I am also in the process of adding the blitzplus gui command set to the Hardwired vocabulary... |
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| Well, it seems I have almost converted the source so it works on a 64-bit machine. I have all files converted apart from one very important one which is the runtime library. Unfortunately I have encountered a big problem that blocks me for the moment. The continued presence of directx7 prevents the x64 version from compiling. Since a 64-bit version of directx7 does not exist, it cannot be used by Hybrid in 64-bit mode. This is also the case for the freeimage library. These two libraries are used by some of the 2d routines, originally included in B3D. None of my hardwired code is reliant on the old dll routines and compiles perfectly to 64-bit (to my knowledge, I do not have any compilation errors so it's very promising). So, to deblock this final hurdle I will have to convert all of Mark's 2d routines to dx9 so I can finally get rid of DX7. Will take a bit of time, but the final result should be worth it. |
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| I am also in the process of adding the blitzplus gui command set to the Hardwired vocabulary... So, to deblock this final hurdle I will have to convert all of Mark's 2d routines to dx9 so I can finally get rid of DX7. Will take a bit of time, but the final result should be worth it. HOLY COW, that's awesome!!! I cannot wait to try that out, always wanted the ability in B3D. Go Ploppy, Go Ploppy, Go Ploppy, GOOOOOOOO!!! |
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| SetFont FreeFont in Hybrid (and Hardwired?) font=LoadFont("Arial", 20) SetFont(font) ... FreeFont(font) Error: Font does not exist ... Commenting out SetFont then the rest of the sequence works (with basic font and size) but the Error appears at FreeFont Font is loaded ... Debug shows a *normal* looking handle |
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| Btw: Hardwired and PureBasic Some of you may remember Chi from PB and Xors Forums - who made the PB-Wrapper for Xors I contacted him yesterday and asked for some information about what the best way is to build a wrapper for Hardwired and PB Here's what he delivered ;-)  There was a LoadFont problem at start as well but he sorted it out using dxLoadFont._dxLoadFont = GetFunction(0, "_dLoadFontA@20") instead of dxLoadFont._dxLoadFont = GetFunction(0, "dLoadFontA") |
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| That's all lovely, @RGR, but how would you import Hardwired into Monkey 1? Thanks! ~GF |
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| What advantage do you expect *importing* Hardwired into Monkey 1 / MonkeyX? Especially in comparison with PB or using Hybrid ... |
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| O I dunno... The ability to create blitz games on a website without the use of a faulty SDK such as the Blitz3D SDK that comes WITH Monkey so that I can create games using Blitz3D for the IPad, IPhone, Tablet, etc by turning the HTML / Javascript into the correct format such as EXE, APK, SO, etc? |
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| And don't say like "oh, that's stupid", or "oh, that won't work", because what I DID get working on the website with the SDK worked GREAT. |
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| You should probably be looking at Unity or some other such thing. Or Ploppy can look at porting everything to OpenGL - turning into something akin to MiniB3D. |
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| Nope.. Some people can afford the pro version of Unity until their game takes off the ground. |
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| @GF: Get your point about the Unity Pro version indeed. As Brucey says OpenGL is probably required for it. To my understanding DX is PC only(perhaps XBOX too) or I must be completely off(can be for I've never really used Monkey or went into depth with it). However perhaps Mark managed to pull off full conversion from DX to GL, I dunno. That is possible I guess, cos the Irrlicht wrapper is also both DX and GL, right? I'm curious: Were you using DX 2d to HTML5 in Monkey or full blown 3d to GL, suitable for Android and did this translate OK? |
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| I used MiniB3D on Monkey 1. That's all. It worked well for what I DID get working. There was no errors or graphics problems in my website simulation. |
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| RE Unity, if you can live with the Unity splash screen you can deploy to all platforms for free I think. You have to meet certain revenue requirements. |
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| I don't care about Unity... Geez.. Why can't people understand that?... I'm not going to pay someone when I can make my game for free.. |
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| Just a general comment about its affordability, that's all. |
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| I used MiniB3D on Monkey 1. That's all. MiniB3D is OpenGL. The only relation it has to Blitz3D or Hardwired is the API. Internally, it is completely different. Hardwired won't work on anything other than Windows because Windows is the only platform to use DirectX. Everything else uses OpenGL. |
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| I am afraid it is very true that NO amount of coding will change the fact that Hardwired is pc exclusive, unless I decided to recode it entirely to cater for other os's [no small task I think you will understand]. BlitzSupport's monkey 'hack' was a way of being able to import the hardwired dll into it so that if you wish you can use the resident functions. Using this dll in any way will restrict Monkey to pc-only. That is the nature of the beast. Monkey is very clever, but not as clever as to automatically reconvert an unrecognised code into another platform's os. No software is that clever - here we're virtually talking AI on a grand scale! BlitzSupport's contribution is a great addition to the Hardwired compatibility list, but as he already knows, it won't expand on the platfom possibilities. If he posted the above it was to demonstrate the versatility of Monkey and at the same time to help out with the portability of my dll; which of course I welcome with open arms. If Monkey works on several different platforms for its resident commands it is because it was written that way - each command has it's own version for each platform the application is aimed at. Secondly, the command set must have been well chosen so that all commands are compatible and possible within the technical restrictions of each platform. Hardwired however has only pc compatible code which makes many calls to the windows api routines (just like b3d/b+/bmax) as much as call to the DirectX modules. It couldn't be more pc! GuyFawkes, if you are looking for any shortcut or magic way of being able to use hardwired WITHOUT using an emulator on another platform than windows you are wasting your time, take our advice. |
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| @RGR, indeed since I have introduced unicode handling into Hardwired I have two versions of the routines that take or return strings. Some functions that take or return normal strings now have an 'A' at the end of thier symbol. Examples (off the top of my head)... dText - Unicode symbol, takes a wide-character string as parameter (wchar_t * in c++) dTextA - Ascii symbol, takes a classic ASCII string as parameter (char * in c++) dPrint, dLoadTexture, dLoadFont, dLoadMesh etc. work in the same way now. Within Hybrid, of course the call to the correct command will be automatically chosen by the compiler. In Blitz3d/+ the hardwired decls file has been configured to use the ascii version so as to ensure compatibility with the Blitz string system. |
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| Very nice. That should save some hassle. |
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| That still doesn't explain the steps needed to use Hardwired in Monkey like Blitzsupport did... Why do you continue to drag this on? I asked a simple question that requires a simple answer.. Can we all just drop the ego for a minute so we can actually LEARN something here? |
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| ...'kay.... frankly I don't know what to say to that unless it's 'sorry about the ego thing Mr Fawkes and it won't happen again'... ;-) |
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| Just had another look at the Monkey wrapper... for some reason, LoadLibrary in the .cpp file is failing, and the same thing happens in PureBasic... yet BlitzMax opens it no problem! Did something change, Ploppy, eg. call convention? |
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| Ah, take that back -- was using 64-bit PureBasic! Just got to figure out why the C++ code would suddenly be failing to open the DLL... EDIT: Doh! Forgot that the DLL needs to go in the build folder, not the source folder. Working fine! I'll clean this up a bit and upload it somewhere. |
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| yay! THANK you, @BlitzSupport! =D |
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| Any luck on how to get Hardwired to work on Monkey like you showed me earlier this week, @BlitzSupport? |
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| Yeah, but probably tomorrow, as it's Friday night here and my focus isn't the best right now (ahem)... but once I've reordered the wrapper into something other people can understand I'll post it up. |
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| Sounds good! Thanks ALOT for doing this, @Blitzsupport! |
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| New biggish worklog entry - B+ Gui command set |
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| @Blitzsupport: Do you have the files uploaded yet? :) Thank you! ~GF |
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| Give the guy a break GF! It's the weekend...I'm sure James will let you know. |
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| Hey! NO one asked you! Leave me alone and go back to what you were doing. Complaining isn't going to change ANYTHING. |
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| I think patience will though. If James said he was going to do it, he'll do it, but let the man breathe. He seems like a top guy, so he's not likely to drop it if he says he'll sort it out. However, if he feels you're pressurising him he may wish to slow down. I know I'd think twice about putting this on my priority list if I felt like being pressurized on something and I think I'm not alone with this line of thought. Just some friendly advice GF, please don't take this the wrong way... |
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| videz: I wrote for the app handyrpg a full blown blitzplus compatibility-layer for blitzmax. It is havin no Bugs and it is having many workaround @ MaxGUI bugs. That was in time a MaxGUI was sold extra and BlitzMax was not featured-only-by-brucey.. :-) But this is old and offtopic. Sorry. I think i had enough thunk about givin it ploppy so he can speed up his development since i wrote a blitzplus equivalent "commands-set" in c++. Ok.. it is using neither QT or something but clean winapi and huv´s a canvas lib for drawing purposes.. -.- The jpeg loader and png loader took ~2 months for me and they are not really 100% compatible. PNG misses some old and special formats and JPG loader is missing "progessive" support. Implement a loader for TGA was easier since the BMP was "harder" (bit-layer..) But ploppy rejected team-up in no-nice cruitical statements allready. So i will forbid only him the use of my Code in any of my license i giv out too. Maybe it is not a interesting fact for him & friends (today-state) Ploppy & me WILL be in concurrence when he is going sell it´s engine as c++ library and my product is not ultra-good but compatible with monkey 2 and featuring many gameframework-commands instead 3d-commands (i do not mean develop a 2d engine). :-) Btw. Ploppy´s version of Blitz3D sry.. the new Version of Blitz3D (i respect that in this manner!) is supporting all Microsoft Devices latery. No joke. Microsoft is huv implemented well DirectX on all Mobile, Tablet & Desktop-Plattform. Using the Mobile platform (Micro-Smartphones) costs a license and a day microsoft support ($499) but it is worth it. So i can say ploppy huv made a multiplatform engine :-) |
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| I'm not trying to pressure him. I'm just curious. But apparently, that's not allowed on here. Steve Elliot was the one pressuring ME! I was FINE til' HE came along! |
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| videz: I wrote for the app handyrpg a full blown blitzplus compatibility-layer for blitzmax. It is havin no Bugs and it is having many workaround @ MaxGUI bugs. That was in time a MaxGUI was sold extra and BlitzMax was not featured-only-by-brucey.. :-) But this is old and offtopic. Sorry. I think i had enough thunk about givin it ploppy so he can speed up his development since i wrote a blitzplus equivalent "commands-set" in c++. Ok.. it is using neither QT or something but clean winapi and huv´s a canvas lib for drawing purposes.. -.- The jpeg loader and png loader took ~2 months for me and they are not really 100% compatible. PNG misses some old and special formats and JPG loader is missing "progessive" support. Implement a loader for TGA was easier since the BMP was "harder" (bit-layer..) But ploppy rejected team-up in no-nice cruitical statements allready. So i will forbid only him the use of my Code in any of my license i giv out too. Maybe it is not a interesting fact for him & friends (today-state) Ploppy & me WILL be in concurrence when he is going sell it´s engine as c++ library and my product is not ultra-good but compatible with monkey 2 and featuring many gameframework-commands instead 3d-commands (i do not mean develop a 2d engine). :-) Btw. Ploppy´s version of Blitz3D sry.. the new Version of Blitz3D (i respect that in this manner!) is supporting all Microsoft Devices latery. No joke. Microsoft is huv implemented well DirectX on all Mobile, Tablet & Desktop-Plattform. Using the Mobile platform (Micro-Smartphones) costs a license and a day microsoft support ($499) but it is worth it. @ShadowTurtle - do you really think I would need to use your gui source code to advance my work? If you do then you are very naive indeed. Still, quite cute to think I would need to use your code for anything - I don't even know anything about what projects you're working on, and honestly I don't care. From the sense of your last post, I really get the feeling that you are taking the fact that I rejected your offer of a 'partnership' quite badly and your last post seemed very bitter and unecessary. I do not need this kind of thing; I find it childishly ridiculous. Please refrain from this line of thought, as it will not get you anywhere - I will not share my work with you, and just to make it very clear I will re-iterate that I have never and I will not use your source for any of my work. |
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| @GF: It's here -- please follow the readme carefully: http://www.hi-toro.com/monkey/hwmonkey.zip I don't really plan to support this, but it 'should' just convert future HW releases fine anyway -- except where Ploppy uses any more Blitz/BlitzMax keywords as Hardwired params! :P |
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| LMAO! Thanks alot, @BlitzSupport! =D |
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| Can you get this working with HTML5? If so, I would be greatful! Or some way to call DLL functions from within Monkey. |
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| Um, no -- Hardwired's DX9+! (This is also a working example of how to call DLL functions from Monkey -- just see the two generated files after running "monkeyer.exe".) |
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| Can you get this working with HTML5? I already explained why it wasn't possible in an earlier post, yet you replied with... I asked a simple question that requires a simple answer.. Can we all just drop the ego... In fact, all the answers to your question were correct and helpful. However your response comes across as quite arrogant and somewhat disrespectful. Perhaps you should invest your time more constructively and consider creating a three.js integration layer with Monkey's HTML5 target, and release it as open source for everyone else to use ? |
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| Guy Fawkes: HTML5 is not only webgl, css & html anymore. It is "official" asm.js too. Microsoft Edge and Chakra is supporting HTML5 and asm.js. From a insider i know the directx commandset is accessible from asm.js. I think there will be a special DirectX SDK for Emscripten (or the like) if you ask the $499 support. In the end it is possible that ploppy can port his engine to emscripten and use directx. Only DirectX 12 is working. <- wrong. Correct: a subset of dx12 -.- But this is no problem since ploppy mentioned he will go to DirectX 12 in some past post. I do not know about the support HTML5 + Asm.js + DirectX in ms mobile phones & tables (outside surface). The other way is makin a native compilation and using therefore 64-architecture. So i had send ploppy my framework as .o files for including and testing. He rejected my work forever. So it seems is will maybe make a one-man-show but is using allready a fork of B3D (oO). I do not know what is more childish.. 1. My last post or 2. the ambition of a one-man-show. :-) Btw.. it is ok being childish (in the night) so long the code is running ! |
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| calm down . |
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| can anyone explain why he think HW and Monkey together is a fine solution? |
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| @ShadowTurtle, get over it for god's sake. I can't see why you can't accept that I said no! It's just crazy, and each new comment you make upon it just shows how petty you are becoming about the fact I am not sharing my work. I really would like you to change topic, or at the best just change thread - because posts such as yours are just poisoning my thread more than anything else. I have remained polite with you all the way and have replied honestly to your questions. I do not deserve the kind of behaviour you are dishing out and each new comment you make reaffirms that my initial refusal of sharing any of my work was a very good decision indeed. By the way, I cannot see how me using the B3D source is childish in any way, but in any case if you so like, what an excellent rebuke ;D I can't stand this getting so heavy and it need not be this way. Please just stop insisting on this subject, supposing about how I work when certain parts are just not true and just turn the page, and while you're at please just refrain from using this thread unless you have something worthwhile to contribute. I am very tired of this, and it is far from constructive. And honestly all you have shown so far is your ambition to profit in one way or another from other people's work, as in this recent post you made on AdamStrange's thread. Your post killed that thread, it seems. |
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| Making HW possibly compatible to "emscripten" + asm.js + directx + Edge/Chakra is not meant as plugin for monkey. It is a way going let latery run created HW games/projects on modern mobile phones ("microsoft products" only). By the way, I cannot see how me using the B3D source is childish in any way, but in any case if you so like, what an excellent rebuke ;D I have not written this. Btw. i think i know now ya communication-mentor (german blitzbasic forum). He had allways refused any communication trough missunterstandings. He was the only guy that missunterstooded and had talk many lines making "the missunterstood is real after spoken in ~10 posts". Here is another one missunterstood: THE POST IS NOT HAVING KILLED THE PROJECT. I think the guy is having a job and not only working just on one demo forever in wich HW was used. In another Topic you had already rejected making sites (and more) wich features HW. I think he will implement new stuff in his Demo if you do make new graphically stuff into hardwired or so. Actually you do "internas" as 32b to 64b conversion, rewrite image-handling stuff and some sort :-/ I think you will not yourself work longer on HW really without being a "i-had-give-up-guy--eventually-in-some-manner" guy. Ya mentor is really paranoid. Ya tone is soo aggresive on new feature request that are outside of portings & directx. |
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| Here is another one missunterstood: THE POST IS NOT HAVING KILLED THE PROJECT. I think the guy is having a job and not only working just on one demo forever in wich HW was used. In another Topic you had already rejected making sites (and more) wich features HW. I think he will implement new stuff in his Demo if you do make new graphically stuff into hardwired or so. Actually you do "internas" as 32b to 64b conversion, rewrite image-handling stuff and some sort :-/ I doesn't matter. The point is that your post is just another example of you trying to transparently profit from other people. Personally I do not feel this fits in at all with the spirit of the Blitz community. By the way, 'your mentor is paranoid' translates very badly. What do you mean by mentor? In english, mentor means a person that someone looks up to and reveers(more or less). @BlitzSupport, please help. I'm not having fun here at all.... |
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| Pleasy stop making my posts uninteressting via communication since the most peoples are naturally everytime reading allways ya post @ the first. trying to transparently profit from other people This was never a topic and is not true. So i requote my writing now before it is going under. i think i know now ya communication-mentor (german blitzbasic forum). He had allways refused any communication trough missunterstandings. He was the only guy that missunterstooded and had talk many lines making "the missunterstood is real after spoken in ~10 posts". I do now stop "spaming" since it is ya topic. This is true and me should do that now. I hope you will not drop off as a individual into a machine that is going what other guys stumps/sayin to you. Ignoring the work from others (as mine) and ignoring team-up is not the spirit of the community too |
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| And I quote from the aforementioned thread: Here are some screenshots from my loader. Chinese is not supported. LTR is not supported. And many other things are not supported. You can gain me for a project. I do a importer for you (integrated in ya product!) for $1200 in a week. Is that ok!? |
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| The blitzbasic forum had allways guys that maked cool stuff that was sold. Even work. Are you not meaning this in the sentence of ya text (ouside the link) 5 posts up? i think i know now ya communication-mentor (german blitzbasic forum). He had allways refused any communication trough missunterstandings. He was the only guy that missunterstooded and had talk many lines making "the missunterstood is real after spoken in ~10 posts". actually ~4 posts up. |
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| Okay, if you mean Rick, I never asked Rick to create this page, he took it upon himself to create it. I am happy he did, as it certainly helps the new user. But as for your repeated quote i think i know now ya communication-mentor (german blitzbasic forum). He had allways refused any communication trough missunterstandings. He was the only guy that missunterstooded and had talk many lines making "the missunterstood is real after spoken in ~10 posts". I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you are getting at, it's not great English (and I don't speak German - sorry). |
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| Quite honestly, I don't even feel like working on HW anymore for today- I'm taking a break. Lucky I don't drink anymore - crap such as this would make me want to reach for a bottle. |
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| In the past i wrote a little source-code-editor for purebasic. It had some cool features in its time (backup system, real project managing, rep. support etc.). A another developer worked on another source-code-editor for purebasic. He had see my project. The developer mentioned stopping the development on JaPBe (in ~12 Posting overall the forums + many responses). He stopped for ~8 weeks. In this moment i was the communitys poor-man since i was the occasion that JaPBe was stopped (in ~8 postings overall the forums + many responses). What i had did? I had maked only one post and this post consited a project. I MUST stop working on my project being not finally a real poor man. There is no descripted logic since i wrote the story in a short version. In the end this is why i think communication design is powerfull and it is ok that you want continue learning it. So i can only do wish you, that you trink fanta and continue working on HW. Maybe i am a offender in ya eyes but you will see many more on every day you will be better. |
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| Huh? |
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| Ignoring the work from others (as mine) and ignoring team-up is not the spirit of the community too Just because someone is doing something nice for the community, it doesn't mean they should feel obliged to team up with someone else if they are asked to. And Ploppy, it is not always necessary to feed they trolls. They can always find scraps to chew on elsewhere ;-) |
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| I do know what you mean Brucey and you are totally right, I am not helping things in reacting to his every post and I do apologise, I really do not wish to tarnish the thread in such a way. But after the hours and hours I have put into my project I feel quite sensitive about certain aspects of Hardwired and feel I must react so as not to give false impressions about hardwire's nature or my own reasons for creating it. I also find it very hard to accept this 'all for money' approach at things. |
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| OMG - what is happening in this post?...let's get back on track guys!!! |
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| OK, time for a new thread -- please don't derail with silly arguments. Ploppy has made clear his intentions for this project. |
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