New Website!

Community Forums/Monkey2 Talk/New Website!

marksibly(Posted 2016) [#1]
Hi,

Here's the new monkey2 dev blog site:

http://monkey2.monkey-x.com

A bit crusty, but it fulfilled my primary objective of not taking ages to do. Also, since it's just a wordpress site, it should be easy to make sexier in future. In a way, it may be best to think of the new site as a monkey2 'resource' site for now, but lets see what happens...

This forum will remain open, but please feel free to give the new forums a try. In particular, I want to build up the 'FAQs' forum so it contains lots of useful info that I'll be able to copy 'n' paste into docs!

There's also a 'roadmap' there that I whipped up about in 10 mins. It's not very detailed yet, but I'll add to it over time and it does I think give a pretty accurate picture of what I aim to be working on in the near future.

Bye,
Mark


Neuro(Posted 2016) [#2]
Yay!


marksibly(Posted 2016) [#3]
Yipee!

Can you try posting in the forums?


Richard Betson(Posted 2016) [#4]
Yay!


impixi(Posted 2016) [#5]
Just registered and posted there. No problems encountered yet...


marksibly(Posted 2016) [#6]
It's missing timestamps in the forums, but apart from that it seems to do the job.


Richard Betson(Posted 2016) [#7]
It's missing timestamps in the forums

But available by clicking 'Details'


ImmutableOctet(SKNG)(Posted 2016) [#8]
Looks good. I just made an FAQ request.


Goodlookinguy(Posted 2016) [#9]
I didn't get the register email, but after "resetting" my password; the reset password email did come in and I was able to approve the account at the point.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#10]
Why not use a phpBB forum? (example)


Richard Betson(Posted 2016) [#11]
Why not use a phpBB forum?

Why not use MyBB. ;)

The forum is OK for now I think and probably way easier to manage then MyBB or phpBB. I do use MyBB (my site) though and like it.


dawlane(Posted 2016) [#12]
@Danilo: phpBB has been mentioned numerous times.


wiebow(Posted 2016) [#13]
Nice!! But: can the option to get an email if someone responds to your post be disabled by default?


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#14]
@dawlane:
I mean if there is a ‚restart', it’s a chance for switching to a full featured board.


taumel(Posted 2016) [#15]
Hopping sites comes with pros and cons.

A fresh start can come with new options (when you take advantage of them) and it can be more focused. On the other side, you're splitting up the members/resources/community, waste already gathered knowledge.

It can make sense but the step from Blitz to the Monkey site wasn't so successful.

Hmm, a little bit more design wouldn't hurt. Don't make it (one theme) too dark/pro like. Most of my tools look this way (and often it's a benefit) but on a forum i enjoy something different.


Richard Betson(Posted 2016) [#16]
it’s a chance for switching to a full featured board.

It is, but... There is a lot to consider when setting up a bulletin board. First off would be spam as bot's are relentless and fending that off is way possible in MyBB. For example I use the some MyBB plugins to catch most of the spam and more then a few use the Honey Pot Project or other IP lists. Then there is security which if you do not know what you are doing can lead to disaster. There are also considerations regarding Wordpress and website design. You can though do quite a lot with MyBB. My site basically uses MyBB to encapsulate my entire website (via a MyBB plugin). This has some security advantages and each web page on the site use a MyBB header and footer.

It is a chore to setup a board but the pay off is a much better community experience. Lots to think about.


Soap(Posted 2016) [#17]
https://www.reddit.com/r/MONKEY/ could be used as the forum as well.
There's also https://www.reddit.com/r/Monkey2 if you'd rather the two languages not mingle


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#18]
Reddit is a mess, not a nice forum.

@Mark:
Do you have some data about database size and typical traffic for MonkeyX and BlitzMax forums?
Maybe by eMail, if not public. Maybe we can find a sponsor for a nice phpBB forum. ;)


Xaron(Posted 2016) [#19]
You don't need a sponsor for phpBB. The traffic here is for sure minimal, every simple Web hosting package would be enough.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#20]
@Xaron:
I was thinking ahead in time, if MX2 has 5.000+ users and the forum has 500.000+ messages...


Richard Betson(Posted 2016) [#21]
I was thinking ahead in time, if MX2 has 5.000+ users and the forum has 500.000+ messages...

I applaud that optimistic outlook. :D


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#22]
Took the PB forum as a rough orientation. It's Home to PB coders for 12+ years or so.


Xaron(Posted 2016) [#23]
If Mark continues to split up the community for every new product... No way. ;)

As he probably has already a dedicated server running (as far as I know) it should be no problem.


Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2016) [#24]
I second the phpBB vote its a brilliant forum well run and worked on all the time, not only that but its themeing options are really good or were the last time I used it, MY GOD its good to see you using wordpress if im not mistaken it's about time you took the web side of things and ripped it out of the 80's it deserves to shine with a modern look and MX2 is the perfect excuse to do it.

For front end and the store pages info etc go with Wordpress, it's so freakishly simply to use and secure and super easy to theme, hell Mark even you could theme it.

For the forum's I would go with phpBB so many option to allow you to so many things in a really simple manner, something like adding bbcode is as simple as filling in two edit box's and clicking submit and the forum handles the rest..


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#25]
I could do one as well (MX2 Community Forum), if Mark doesn't like/want phpBB.
Just need to know. Registering a new Domain for it is €30/year.


Xaron(Posted 2016) [#26]
I think there is no need to split it up even further, Danilo. ;) And 30€ p.a. sounds like a rip off actually. Ok, enough of complaints, sorry.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#27]
Depends on the TLD. Cheap ones (.com/..net/.eu/.org) are €14/year, the cool ones higher.
.best and .adult are €10/Month. .mx is €3.75/Month here. :D


Nobuyuki(Posted 2016) [#28]
I like the roadmap. The forums seem fine save for a few bugs, I don't think phpbb is necessary. It might help accessibility to new users if we registered a shorter URL. How about http://monkey2.mx ? ;)


taumel(Posted 2016) [#29]
Speaking of the roadmap, why isn't mojo3d on the long(er) term road map anymore (like in ted2)?

It also would be nice having some rough estimation about a possible release, like, could it happen in 2017/18/19 (i'll add the usual delays on my own)?

@ted2
Do people use block folding a lot? A minimap would be nice though.


dmaz(Posted 2016) [#30]
I have to disagree there....adding dates would be a terrible idea, they just cause trouble and more often than not are meaningless, especially in development like this. having a live list in order of priority really should be just fine.


taumel(Posted 2016) [#31]
Offering rough dates is just the same as sharing a roadmap. It all adds up trying to give you an idea about the plans and what's going on, also kind of a basis for a reasonable relationship and giving meaning to a roadmap. Such estimations are based on your knowledge today and you update them according to how things turn out in reality. There is no harm in such information and communication as long as you understand the process of developing software/stuff.


Gerry Quinn(Posted 2016) [#32]
But it sometimes leads to tears among those who *don't* understand the process, when dates are inevitably missed...


wiebow(Posted 2016) [#33]
Developers not understanding developers problems when delivering a product?? *GASP*


Amon(Posted 2016) [#34]
Just signed up. I'm pro BlitzResearch. And that's fact.


therevills(Posted 2016) [#35]
Mark's posted a blog update if you didnt see it:

http://monkey2.monkey-x.com/2016/02/10/minor-update-on-new-compiler/


Shinkiro1(Posted 2016) [#36]
I don't think we need to decide the tech mark is going to use for a forum/website.

Ironically, I have a suggestion for a domain name, I just had to suggest it:
mx2-lang.io
mx2-lang.org

ps: for example: https://www.rust-lang.org
this is in my opionion an amazing site, very simple and to the point.
no needless blabber. just the stuff you need.


ImmutableOctet(SKNG)(Posted 2016) [#37]
I mostly agree with Shinkiro1, and the others who have suggested other domain names. For now, the current domain is fine, but eventually, we do need another domain name.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#38]
New MX2 FAQ entry: Operator Overloading


secondgear(Posted 2016) [#39]
Thank you Danilo! Very interesting, well written, and the examples are quite useful. MX2 FAQ is promising to become my go-to resource :)

Edit: @Danilo's post below (not to pollute the thread)
Funny, in my muddled state of mind I haven't realized that. Anyway, you posted the link, and frankly, I rarely visit other Monkey sites, but I do come here daily.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#40]
@secondgear: Please note that Mark Sibly wrote the article.


taumel(Posted 2016) [#41]
Yay, thanks for the info.


Shagwana(Posted 2016) [#42]
What is going on, site is down?


Tibit(Posted 2016) [#43]
Just maintenance, if I understood correctly Mark was working on improving things on the site.


marksibly(Posted 2016) [#44]
...and it's back!

Ok, it still looks like it was designed by a programmer, but what can ya do?!?

The modules are now up on the site anyway. They're just a direct upload of the 'modules' directory, in preparation for a module manager later on!

There's also a doc comment system in there, but it's disabled for now until I'm a little bit happier with the state of the docs and have stress tested it out a bit more.

But all in all, I think it looks pretty cozy!


tiresius(Posted 2016) [#45]
Not a fan of the hot pink color scheme but I appreciate the Language reference page. :)
Pages like that (and examples) were like my bible when learning Monkey-X.


Paul - Taiphoz(Posted 2016) [#46]
Is this an April fools ? your a little early mark..


Shinkiro1(Posted 2016) [#47]
Thats a good start from a content point of view.
There is 1 change you can make to majorly improve readability: give the outer container a max-width + margin: auto (something like 900px).

@Mark
If you are interested I could help you with the styling, I am a web developer by day ;)


marksibly(Posted 2016) [#48]
> There is 1 change you can make to majorly improve readability: give the outer container a max-width + margin: auto (something like 900px).

I thought about that, but it didn't seem right for a programming/documentation site. And no other 'language' sites seem to do this do either - the unity docs, python docs, msdn all make full use of the page width. Ok, just checked and the new look apple docs are an exception. Still, can't hurt to try it out I guess...

> If you are interested I could help you with the styling, I am a web developer by day ;)

The style.css is here: http://monkey2.monkey-x.com/wp-content/themes/mx2-theme/style.css?ver=4.4.2

Go nuts - it could definitely do with some improvement!

If you want to play around with the wordpress theme, email me and I'll send you a zip. It should be usable-ish with any wordpress4.4 install, although the module doc system wont work without some extra setup that's not in there.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#49]
Can't scroll properly up & down anymore with the new site design, on iPad using finger touch.
Tested with Safari and Chrome. It scrolls only as long as I touch the display and stops
immediately when touch is stopped.
When wiping the finger, scrolling should not stop immediately when the finger is released.
Scrolling usually slows down before it stops.


rIKmAN(Posted 2016) [#50]

Can't scroll properly up & down anymore with the new site design, on iPad using finger touch.
Tested with Safari and Chrome. It scrolls only as long as I touch the display and stops
immediately when touch is stopped.
When wiping the finger, scrolling should not stop immediately when the finger is released.
Scrolling usually slows down before it stops.



Yeah can confirm this, it's the same for me using Safari on an iPad Air.


marksibly(Posted 2016) [#51]
> Can't scroll properly up & down anymore with the new site design, on iPad using finger touch.

Try again now. I've added a fix for the main blog page that seems to work well here - will fix other pages soon.

To be honest, I haven't put *any* thought into mobile devices yet for the site (as you can probably guess) and it's something I'm kind of hoping someone who knows what they're doing can help with.


marksibly(Posted 2016) [#52]
Ok, think I've got the 'modules' area working too now.


Shinkiro1(Posted 2016) [#53]
@mark
Ok, I had a look but I can't really change things because the styles are applied directly to the element.
The best way to style elements, is to give them classes and then style these classes in css.
If you could assign the classes I can style them.

Also, I am pretty sure the scrolling issues with ios are related to fixed positioning.
Is there any reason the styling is applied inline?

edit:
so instead of this:
<div style="position:absolute; width:100%; top:64px; bottom:0;">

you have it like this:
<div class="content-area">


marksibly(Posted 2016) [#54]
> Is there any reason the styling is applied inline?

Mainly because it was easier to experiment that way and get the header/iframe layout stuff working right.

> If you could assign the classes I can style them.

I'll have a go, but given my knowledge of css it could take a while. What are the 'high priority' ones to do? The layout stuff?

> Also, I am pretty sure the scrolling issues with ios are related to fixed positioning.

I have this going now, I just needed to add '-webkit-overflow-scrolling:touch' everywhere I used 'overflow:auto' (and tweak a few things).


Richard Betson(Posted 2016) [#55]
Mainly because it was easier to experiment that way

I totally recommend making it easy on yourself. I know from my own experience choosing a path that you are comfortable with and can maintain is best.

Simple and direct is how I'm planning the next iteration of my website and the new Monkey 2 site seems to be on this same path which I prefer. ;)


marksibly(Posted 2016) [#56]
Yeah, but it's also nice if it's easy for people to play with!

I had a crack at this anyway and think I've got the general idea - style sheet is in the same place:

http://monkey2.monkey-x.com/wp-content/themes/mx2-theme/style.css?ver=4.4.2

The layout classes are at the bottom, and I've commented them with the hierarchy. I've also included the element they're used with, eg: 'a.header_button' or 'div.page_content' just in case it's important, but I guess it shouldn't be. None of them are reused with different elements, but I guess they could be eventually.

Wasn't really sure how to deal with the header, but the logo, text and button strip are in there too.

All in all, it definitely is neater like this and easier for me to tweak things in future, but it would have been hard to do it like this while I was working out how to do it!

There are probably some style-less divs in the comment list pages that need classes too.


Shinkiro1(Posted 2016) [#57]
@Mark
That's perfect.
I will have a look at it tonight and then post the css here.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#58]
Thanks, scrolling works now with touch. I'm using iPad Pro and Air 2 for web surfing and forum reading, most of the time.

The Pro with Logitech keyboard is like a laptop/notebook, and there are apps for almost everything - incl. Office, Databases,
Mind Managers, Drawing/Painting (Apple Pencil), Music making, Web Browsing, Movies (Vimeo, Sky Go, Amazon Video),
Radio/Music/Video/Foto tools, Books (Kindle, iBooks, Play Books), iOS Games, ...


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#59]
@Mark:
Somehow I'm missing the target platforms on the Roadmap. Any news on that?
Android and iOS? Any time estimates or plan for mobile device targets in MX2?

Direct support for variations of Android and iOS planned (like special controllers)?
For example Apple tvOS + Remote, Amazon FireTV + Remote and Joypad, ...

Thanks in advance!


Shinkiro1(Posted 2016) [#60]
@Mark
Hi, I tweaked things a bit, mainly the modules tree and some general stuff.
The css is here (can be fully replaced): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2892658/dev/monkey2/style.css

For the modules site to have correct scrolling behavior it's body class should be 'modules-reference'. The Forums should have 'forums'.
You can automatically add a page slug to each site: http://www.wpbeginner.com/wp-themes/how-to-add-page-slug-in-body-class-of-your-wordpress-themes/
I put the page body classes at the bottom, you can change them as you wish.

----
improved module tree:



marksibly(Posted 2016) [#61]
I'm having a few problems getting the modules reference going - it doesn't show up at all with the new style.css

I make the following changes:

* Changed the <body class="page_body"> in header.php to <body <?php body_class(); ?>>

* Added the filter above to functions.php. However, it adds the body class 'page-modules-reference', but your style only adds 'modules-references' so I tweaked it a bit to generate the right class. Still didn't work.

The html source looks like it's using the right class now, but no modules reference!

The layout of the other pages is nicer though!


marksibly(Posted 2016) [#62]
Ok, got it working!

I needed to add height:100%; to the body.modules-reference css.

I've also renamed this to body.page-modules-reference so it matches the body_class generated by the filter.

A few things though:

* The 'expand/collapse' icons are still in squares and not cool circles like yours.

* I think the nav tree font/line-height is too big. There are likely to be a lot of entries here so I would them to be a little more compact. I can play around with this myself though...

Thanks for the help!


Shinkiro1(Posted 2016) [#63]
About the circles: The treeview css should be loaded before the style.css (the <link> in the head section should be positioned before the style.css).

If that is not possible replace this class (yes, not a nice solution).

.tree-leaf .tree-expando {
border-radius: 50% !important;
background: #ddd;
width: 1.4em !important;
height: 1.4em !important;
font-size: 1em;
line-height: 1em;
margin-top: 0.35em;
border: 1px solid #222;
opacity: 0.5;
}

edit:
------
> I think the nav tree font/line-height is too big
Yes, might be a bit too big, change:

.tree-leaf .tree-expando {
margin-top: 0.15em;
}
.tree-leaf .tree-leaf-text {
line-height: 1.7em;
}


marksibly(Posted 2016) [#64]
> The treeview css should be loaded before the style.css (the <link> in the head section should be positioned before the style.css).

Ok, that worked.

So !important means 'don't overwrite'?


Shinkiro1(Posted 2016) [#65]
!important will overwrite any rule, regardless of positioning or 'specifity'.
If you are interested in what specifity is:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/CSS/Specificity
https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2007/07/css-specificity-things-you-should-know/

the short/rough version is:
when the browser looks for rules to apply to elements, it will use the rules from the selector with the highest score.
score is determined by how many classes a selector has.

.modules {} <- score: 10*1
.modules .content {} <- score: 10*2=20

!important has a score of 1000, so will practically always override any rules, therefore it's considered bad practice.