For those thinking about Flash vs HTML5
Community Forums/Monkey Talk/For those thinking about Flash vs HTML5
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I am liking HTML5 more and more, but I just ended (for now) a fruitless effort to integrate my Monkey coded HTML5 app with Facebook. In fact I ported the app from Flex to Monkey, which I don't regret but I am finding some things...painful. And hey, if your focus is reach check this out: |
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| and here is the app/demo or whatever... http://apps.facebook.com/drivingrange/ It's a driving range with accurate (I hope) ball physics, courtesy of Physics for Game Programmers by Grant Palmer. Don't try it with IE - there is a lovely bug with the new Facebook JavaScript API that gives you a blank page upon logging in. To hit a shot click in the white grid. Center of grid is zero sidespin and 100 percent power. Stray from this and you will get error represented by size of cricle. Left and right of center produces sidespin. Lots of bugs but this thing is very early days. |
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| Interesting, but you should consider the 'time' factor: now Flash has some advantage point, but HTML5 is growing faster and with a wider support. Moreover Flash requires a 'player' (written for each OS and with 'different' results), HTML5 - if the browser supports it - no. Of couse the 'better' solution is to write the application for both (flash and HTML5) and let's the user to choose what he want. |
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| Valid point degac and it is something I am noting for sure. It might change very fast with all the big guns beating the HTML5 drum. What I love about Monkey - I don't really have to worry so much about putting all my eggs in one basket with respect to Flash vs HTML5 - though the Facebook bit is proving a tricky issue. Last edited 2011 |
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| Yeah, I don't have much hope for HTML5 since the big guns, Apple and Google will eventually split on how they want to implement it, then it'll fork, then we'll be writing code for 2 platforms, then MS will implement their own.... I enjoy Flash because it does "just work". |
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| I enjoy Flash because it does "just work". It doesn't on iPhone! Grr, damn you apple. |
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| It doesn't on iPhone! Grr, damn you apple Seems fine on my Samsung Galaxy phone, oh hang on, aren't Apple sueing Samsung for copying the iphone, glad they didn't copy the whole "not supporting Flash" thing. |
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| Flash requires a 'player' (written for each OS and with 'different' results), HTML5 - if the browser supports it - no You've got those the wrong way around. Requiring a player is a good thing. The player for each platform is written by Adobe and will perform in the same way whether you access it from Win/IE or Linux/Firefox. HTML5 doesn't have this advantage because it's just a "standard", and browsers will never support it identically. |
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| It doesn't on iPhone! Grr, damn you apple. Well, it doesnt' work event on most Android device 'due' to low-end hardware... while an html5 web-page runs! Yeah, I don't have much hope for HTML5 since the big guns, Apple and Google will eventually split on how they want to implement it, then it'll fork, then we'll be writing code for 2 platforms, then MS will implement their own.... I really doubt about a future like this: if someone (Google, MS or Apple) would to make its OWN html5 version it should already be present, while on the market all the browsers claim to be the 'best in html5 support'. Yes, the HTML5 is not a 'definitive-standard', but even Adobe PDF has become standard after many years due only to the pervasive presence on every computer. The only - limiting - factor I see is Microsoft: the decision to make IE9 only for Vista/Seven and IE10 only for Seven/and future is only a marketing decision that could cause a major damage. |
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| Flash requires a 'player' (written for each OS and with 'different' results), HTML5 - if the browser supports it - no I think a browser should count as a player as well. |
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| I enjoy Flash because it does "just work". aye but for how long. Unless adobe open it up as an open standard i just do not see it competing further down the road. |
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| I suppose when HTML5 is more complete, Adobe could just create an HTML5 exporter for Flash. |
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| aye but for how long. Unless adobe open it up as an open standard i just do not see it competing further down the road. That's Apple-talk. It's more open than a lot of Apple's products. mp3 is a closed format, but Jobs didn't complain about that. What about Java? That's somewhat open, but Jobs killed it.Flash as a player itself isn't open sourced, which is a drag, but the SWF file format is (albiet not controlled by an unbiased committee). WebKit (the html5 player) is nice, since it's available to all-- but open source also means open forking. Pick yer poison. As I see it, Flash has done some impressive stuff after all these years, HTML5 is unimpressive as of now. Maybe that'll change, someday, just not today. |
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| I can't help thinking that HTML5 will end up being the same experience across multiple browsers that CSS is. I'll write a nice little proggy that works fine in one browser, and then try it in some other browsers and cry. |
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| @Bill, I recently worked on a heavyweight HTML5 App and found that everything "canvas based" is *very* standard across all supporting browsers. CSS3 is another kettle of fish!! |
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| I really doubt about a future like this: if someone (Google, MS or Apple) would to make its OWN html5 version it should already be present, while on the market all the browsers claim to be the 'best in html5 support'. That already -is- the HTML 5 reality. All current browsers use different implementations AND different interpretations of the not-even-passed HTML 5 standard. No HTML 5 page looks or works the same on Firefox 4, Chrome or IE. HTML 5 is the same mess that previous versions of HTML were. If you want something to look and feel the same on any platform and any browser, you still have to use Flash. Oh, and the reason why Apple does not support Flash is awfully simple: It does not lock the users into the Apple ecosystem but makes it easy for users to switch the platform. And it's a technology that they don't own, like their proprietary video codecs that they use in -their- HTML 5 browser. |
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| No HTML 5 page looks or works the same on Firefox 4, Chrome or IE. HTML 5 is the same mess that previous versions of HTML were HTML5 is still in draft. Microsoft in the past had a different approach (due to the goal of eliminating Netscape). Thanks God they failed.* Now I see a more collaborative approach from all the players: some features (like WebStorage) could be at the moment different, but everyone has understood they cant' ignore the customer and the market. Mozilla and Google moreover share their results and codes. This surely is a warranty that a 'common standard' will be implemented. Technically speaking I haven't see any major error in HTML5 games in the different platforms (I played with Monkey and there are many other html5-games-sites around): excluding speed differences (due to javascript interpreter or graphics driver support) everything works. And checking Monkey-generated code I didn't see any check for player like in the past for IE or Netscape... Of course HTML5 is more than 'canvas'... but at the moment I'm interested in this feature. Apple has its own politic: its point of view is correct and logic. Their products, their rules. None is obliged to buy Apple products. If you do, you should accept this, otherwise look around for another solution (Android, Wp7...). And about codecs: the 'war' behind the video codecs is - of course - to ensure the Major. Major owns movie rights, they want DRM/control/everything. If you can offer a solution they like, you win and can offer to your customers the 'content'. Otherwise, niet. GoogleMusic is still in stand-by because of this (I presume, and of course because a lot of money...) Flash: under Linux sometimes I have problems, so the slogan 'all the platform' is quite optimistic. I have an AcerAspireOne with Linux and when I access a page with flash the netbook 'greyout' for some seconds and everything slow down. When runs Windows everything works without problems, so the problem is not the hardware. They have a very low interest in Linux: fine. So if in the future they decide to drop it? Better have an alternative. * Thanks Microsoft - at work - we still need to use IE (and for some old application IE6!) because someone decided that 'internet' was 'the microsoft vision'. And to make things more funny, we pay (from 2010) € 1400,00+VAT at month for a web-application. The only problem they decided to write it ONLY for internet explorer and Adobe Acrobat... So we have many collaborators that have bought tablets (ipad) or smartphone (android) or netbook (with linux preinstalled): they can't use the application... I still remember the day (because I ignored the limit of 'IE'...) when I said them 'you could work from your newest smartphone like from you pc!'... I tried everything: Opera, Chome, Firefox, Safari on every platform: sometime I can make the login, I can make some procedures, or the application stop responds. The problems are in the past, not in the future. In any case better have different solutions! |
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| I love how you can view the source to any html5 app. :) |
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| view the source With Monkey the HTML5 is all wrapped in javascript, which could be obfuscated ;) |
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| That's Apple-talk. is it? I thought it was common sense as well as Windows and Linux talk. If apple had their way they would have their own that you pay extra for and would be as open as a tax office on sunday. :D That already -is- the HTML 5 reality. All current browsers use different implementations AND different interpretations of the not-even-passed HTML 5 standard. No HTML 5 page looks or works the same on Firefox 4, Chrome or IE. Sure the HTML-bit will always be a mess, but it is the CANVAS bit we are most interested in. After that most problems in different browsers are not down to the canvas element, it is down to the unstandardized (or overstandardized :/) horror that is javascript. What the web (and html5) needs is a new scripting language that can draw on the canvas.HTML 5 is the same mess that previous versions of HTML were. If you want something to look and feel the same on any platform and any browser, you still have to use Flash. Oh, and the reason why Apple does not support Flash is awfully simple: It does not lock the users into the Apple ecosystem but makes it easy for users to switch the platform. And it's a technology that they don't own, like their proprietary video codecs that they use in -their- HTML 5 browser. Last edited 2011 |
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| "With Monkey the HTML5 is all wrapped in javascript, which could be obfuscated ;) " Yah...but you can pretty much easily just save the source, modify, re-upload, etc, etc. Yep...flash can too, but it's just so much easier with html5 goodies. |
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| Well to my dismay the source code to my HTML5 app is easily accessible, not to mention the issue of securing data to/from the app and a DB. The later is actually more of a concern to me and the former makes solving it more difficult. Maybe I should not worry about it but being that I want to create a commercial Facebook game this does not give me warm and fuzzy feelings... |
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