Could the monkey apps suck anymore?

Community Forums/Monkey Talk/Could the monkey apps suck anymore?

Snixx(Posted 2011) [#1]
No offence meant and I know its only just out but were there no testers making anything half decent to show? the stuff in the gallery section sucks monkey!


Canardian(Posted 2011) [#2]
You have to understand the possibilities to fully understand why it totally rocks. Don't judge it by what it is now, since it was just released yesterday, because it will expand rapidly, and we have already seen some amazing demos, like GLSL shaders for drawing WebGL graphics. I even bought an Android developer license today, since I'm confident that it's an easy way to make big money with Monkey.

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Hujiklo(Posted 2011) [#3]
It'll get better.. some hot stuff on the way. Also - the Zombie game is pretty darn neat for a first crack at a new multi-platfrom language.


Canardian(Posted 2011) [#4]
Yeah, I played the Zombie game (Trailer Park) yesterday and even bookmarked it, it was really fun and cool.

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Snixx(Posted 2011) [#5]
Well hey, I am sure good stuff can be done but seeing that horrid horse / donkey didnt help the excitement. lol


Canardian(Posted 2011) [#6]
I wasn't utterly amazed either by the horse demo, but I saw someone finding it the best of the best demo. You can't really satisfy everyone, and some people just like wierd stuff.

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taumel(Posted 2011) [#7]
Sadly i don't have as much time as i want for monkey these days but here is another small tryout, a conversion from BlitzMax.

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Snixx(Posted 2011) [#8]
Hey taumel thats quite cool and more like it, bit iffy in firefox but chrome much better.


taumel(Posted 2011) [#9]
Well, yeah, if you want to compare it with the old BlitzMax version.

What drives me crazy is that you can't loop properly. :O/

You might enjoy this one as well.

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Snixx(Posted 2011) [#10]
I like that also, very cool. How is the performance in a Windows / Android etc game?


taumel(Posted 2011) [#11]
I have no idea, i'm on OSX right now with an iPhone. :O)


Canardian(Posted 2011) [#12]
@taumel: I think you should rather use Flash target for web apps for now, since w3c itself said: "don't use HTML5 yet, it's not ready" (and it's very slow right now).

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taumel(Posted 2011) [#13]
I don't have Flash installed here, maybe later but i first will try out some stuff on the iPad first and continue to do jerking HTML-5 stuff. :O)

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Beaker(Posted 2011) [#14]
[trying not to take offense]
You have to realise:
a) beta-testers have jobs and lives too.
b) monkey didn't always have error messages (or error line numbers) to help you out. I can remember at least two versions in a row that wouldn't compile my project (that worked fine in previous versions), without giving any idea why. These things take time, and never more so than during early beta.
c) we spent a lot of time finding bugs, so you don't have to.
d) most of beta team are programmers, not designers/artists.
e) Warpy makes wierd stuff sometimes (horsey demo), but he is a maths genius and comes up with some great original game ideas (sometimes).

Try to go easy on us. :)


taumel(Posted 2011) [#15]
I just had a quick test with the OSX GLFW export and this one is very smooth, although now all the sound is gone.

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Canardian(Posted 2011) [#16]
If Warpy could at least admit that he was stone drunk when the wrote the horsey demo, people would understand :)


taumel(Posted 2011) [#17]
@Beaker
Btw what am i allowed to do with globals in monkey exactly? I do get error messages if i use them in a way i'm used to from BlitzMax.

Global scrX:Int=DeviceWidth 'Seems to be a NoGo
Global scrX:Int=960 'Seems to be okay sometimes

Sometimes i can call a global from a class, sometimes not. How is this supposed to work exactly?

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Foppy(Posted 2011) [#18]
Global scrX:Int=DeviceWidth 'Seems to be a NoGo
Global scrX:Int=960 'Seems to be okay sometimes
Maybe the first one doesn't work if DeviceWidth is not yet known when the global is initialized.

P.S. I like demos such as "Basic Game" in the example folder best. They show in a minimalistic way how to use Monkey.

Now I will hurry and continue finishing my Blitz 3D game as I almost can't wait to make a new game in Monkey. ;)

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taumel(Posted 2011) [#19]
The problem is that sometimes monkey also was upset about defining a variable by a numeric value such as in the second example, so?


GW(Posted 2011) [#20]
I like monkey but I agree that it seems very weak in the beta-test dept.
I caught a whole bunch of bugs in first few min of using it. Bmax had the same thing back in the day.
I wish Mark would be a little bit more inclusive with adding beta testers.


Snixx(Posted 2011) [#21]
Well I didnt like to say however it seems he uses the same testers every time (not that its a bad thing however...) a change of testers would be a better idea.


Dabhand(Posted 2011) [#22]

I like monkey but I agree that it seems very weak in the beta-test dept.
I caught a whole bunch of bugs in first few min of using it. Bmax had the same thing back in the day.
I wish Mark would be a little bit more inclusive with adding beta testers.



http://blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=93312#1067606

Which is one of the reasons I'm keeping away from it until it's a bit more tuned in, like I mentioned in my post in the link, I never really had any faith it would be all singing from release due to the beta reasons you mention... Though, I'm sure once its in the wild BRL will clean up those loose ends!

Dabz

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Amon(Posted 2011) [#23]
Anybody speaking ill of my Monkey will get a spanking?


Warpy(Posted 2011) [#24]
Maybe I should apologise for horsey.

As is well documented, I've been trying for years to make offbeat games that entertain me.

When I made horsey, I ran it, smiled a very big smile, and realised I could never make anything that would entertain me more. Maybe it's because I'm a professional mathematician and I need simple things, but the calm graphics and happy clip clop noises just pleased me to no end.

So when I needed to make something in monkey to test it, I just ported my horsey code. It worked fine.

I did't have time to make anything more complicated. As well as researching for my PhD in maths, I'm currently writing an entire maths examination system in javascript, and around 10 hours a week staffing the uni's maths aid clinic.


PS I don't drink, so we can't blame booze for my crazy antics. The strongest thing I consume is chocolate. Maybe I was dropped in the cauldron as a baby.


GfK(Posted 2011) [#25]
Its the same with any 'showcase' - just look at the one here. There are some truly awful things lurking in there.

Got to admit, the horsey demo was probably the worst I've seen for Monkey - from the *gulp* animation, to the totally non-tiled background image. That and the one with the big monkeyheads floating about (which took down Chrome).

Anyway, go and make some good stuff. that way the pap will sink out of view. :)


Dabhand(Posted 2011) [#26]
I found the horsey demo rather quirky! :D

When I first ran the app that Warpy wrote in BlitMax its one of not many that literally made me burst out laughing because of its silliness! ;)

Dabz


Warpy(Posted 2011) [#27]
The animation isn't "awful", it's a very clever reference to Panique au Village. I'm, like, post-modern.


marksibly(Posted 2011) [#28]
Hi,

> Maybe I should apologise for horsey.

IMO, no need at apologize at all. It's rare that anything on a computer draws an instant smile from me these days, but horsey did the trick!

[edit]
Unnecessarily harsh rant removed...!
[/edit]

Bah! In the old days it used to be *ok* to have a little fun!!!!!

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Canardian(Posted 2011) [#29]
Oh, it's art! That's why I didn't understand it. I understand only technology :)
You must see the movie Pi to fully understand mathematicians.

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Gabriel(Posted 2011) [#30]
I understand only technology :)

I really think you should try art.


Hotcakes(Posted 2011) [#31]
I'm a professional mathematician and I need simple things,

When a mathematician uses the term 'infinitely annoying', how srs is that? :)


BlitzSupport(Posted 2011) [#32]
@Snixx: feel free to impress! The demo version is unrestricted, except for only having the HTML5 target and a non-commercial license.


slenkar(Posted 2011) [#33]
i wanna see the unnecessarily harsh rant :)


sknightly(Posted 2011) [#34]
Global scrX:Int=DeviceWidth 'Seems to be a NoGo
Global scrX:Int=960 'Seems to be okay sometimes


@taumel. I suspect you are calling a mojo function (DeviceWidth) before mojo has been initalised. You can only call mojo functions from OnCreate() onwards (that's why OnCreate is there).

From the Mojo Quick Tips in the Getting Started documentation:

Mojo functions should not be called until your application’s OnCreate method is called. This means you cannot initialize global variables with values returned by mojo functions such as MilliSecs - you must instead initialize such variables in your application’s OnCreate method or later.


I suggest you declare it as a Global earlier, but assign DeviceWidth() to it during OnCreate().


taumel(Posted 2011) [#35]
Okay, thanks, but shouldn't defining a numeric value outside be a safe bet?

Btw i consider math beeing art as well and as pi is a transcendental number, here is some math art...*caugh*...well a little monkey monte carlo approximation pi magic pattern, no need to squint, no stereoscopic one.

mcp

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SoggyP(Posted 2011) [#36]
Hello.

Hmm, this page is throwing up a security warning saying dodgy certificate on www.amon.co on my HTC.

Just thought I'd let you know.

Goodbye.


BlitzSupport(Posted 2011) [#37]
BTW horsey is currently the most played app...

http://www.monkeycoder.co.nz/Apps/_index_.php?type=plays

It amazes me that anyone couldn't see the silliness intended.

Nice demos, BTW, taumel!


MikeHart(Posted 2011) [#38]
Also in Strict mode you have to add parentisis. Without strict you don't need them.


Snixx(Posted 2011) [#39]
Trying the demo and one problem is quite apparent... not being able to see how it performs with flash etc is quite a problem.

I need to be able to see how its going to work on more than just html5...


Amon(Posted 2011) [#40]
Hmm, this page is throwing up a security warning saying dodgy certificate on www.amon.co on my HTC.



[worrying]

Does anyone else get this? I just tried my SSL verification in Firefox, chrome, Opera, IE8, IE9 etc and all identify it as a valid certificate provided by GEOTrust for my site amon.co.

Apologies also for the hijack. Please if anybody is getting this email me, address in profile.

Thanks!


Canardian(Posted 2011) [#41]
After understanding the mind of mathematicians now, I gave a full 5/5 vote for horsey. It's truly a unique piece of protestive art, which relaxes the mind :)

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taumel(Posted 2011) [#42]
@BlitzSupport
Thanks, and big kudos to BRL&beta testers for making monkey. Beside of all the little things we would like to see improved, it's already such a joy to use. :O)

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GaryV(Posted 2011) [#43]
Being that it was a closed beta, I thought the amount, and selection, of examples was actually very good.


MadJack(Posted 2011) [#44]
Hmm. I haven't yet seen this 'horsey' demo you speak of, but may I humbly suggest it could be improved by the addition of a simian rider?

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Richard Betson(Posted 2011) [#45]
Tell me this is not a cool Monkey demo.

http://redeyeware.uphero.com/monkey/glfw_diffusion_example.zip

And, that's done 'with no' Plot or ReadPixel() commands, as mojo lacks them for now.

In fact many of the demos try to show how to code in Monkey. Take Mirror FX which uses the Transform() to accoplish it's FX. From a coding standpoint it is very useful when you look at the code in depth and not from a casual view.

L8r,

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taumel(Posted 2011) [#46]
It's a bad demo as i can't open it on OSX. :O)


Richard Betson(Posted 2011) [#47]
eeek.. Try it now was compiled in earlier Monkey version. :) If it still does not open it could be a 'zip/permissions' thing and very much a Mac issue.

L8r,

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degac(Posted 2011) [#48]
@Snixx:

No offence meant and I know its only just out but were there no testers making anything half decent to show? the stuff in the gallery section sucks monkey!


Give me some time and I fill up the gallery with 'obscene' apps! Compared to mine the 'horsey-thing' will be a masterpiece!!!

In any case there also many other examples that show how complex monkey applications could be, many with source-code, and useful to understand the language.

Or... to be a 'bad' man, Snixx try yourself to write down some interesting app (demo outputs in HTML5 so anyone - with a browser - can see the results!) [this is quite *harsh*??! :)]

Happy coding!


taumel(Posted 2011) [#49]
@Richard
It works now, ahh the space trip one. :O)

The only problem i see with this one is the perfomance difference between the HTML-5 and GLFW version if people only watch the HTML-5 version on the monkey site.


MCP(Posted 2011) [#50]
I like Charlie's Blob Monster... More Charlie please! :)


Raz(Posted 2011) [#51]
Horsey reminded me of the early south park episodes. It has character!


Yan(Posted 2011) [#52]
Horsey is a work of genius...You people have no soul.

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Richard Betson(Posted 2011) [#53]
@taumel
The only problem i see with this one is the perfomance difference between the HTML-5 and GLFW version if people only watch the HTML-5 version on the monkey site.


Firstly, this demo/example is target specific to GLFW hence the name "GLFW Diffusion FX" and not meant to compile/run on any other target. In fact the source code spells-that-out.

There is no 'runnable' app version of this example on the Monkey site as App's must be HTMl5. There is only a offsite link to my webpage for downloading. The same could be said of Zombie Trailer Park which also list an offsite link to play the demo. It seems some just do not know how or do not read off site link information.

But you got it running:)

L8r,


taumel(Posted 2011) [#54]
My fault, i did not click every link on the monkey site. I just remembered the image from there and as i first exported it here as HTML-5, i thought cool but slow. As you say on GLFW it performs well. Satisfied? :O)

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Brucey(Posted 2011) [#55]
My First Monkey App

And yes, it does suck... but hey... it sucks AND tells the time!


Bossti(Posted 2011) [#56]
I'm having a blast with Monkey. Just did another demo between my Java code analyzing sessions at work (I hate Java - with passion!) which you can take a look at by visiting my website.

What I miss are things like rendering the whole stuff into a buffer first and being able to manipulate this data before bringing it to the screen. Ad Support would be cool as well.

Most important for me at this time however would be to call PHP scripts via http. Apps just sell better when they are interfaced with Twitter and Facebook etc. and at least a Twitter upload script would be possible I think. Calling scripts would also make it possible to set up highscore lists etc.

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big10p(Posted 2011) [#57]
The animation isn't "awful", it's a very clever reference to Panique au Village. I'm, like, post-modern.
Ah, so that's where they got the idea for those Cravendale TV ads! I always found them highly amusing, which is unusual for ads, these days.

Wow, even their website is mad as a box of frogs:
http://www.milkmatters.co.uk/


Warpy(Posted 2011) [#58]
The cravendale ads are by the same people


big10p(Posted 2011) [#59]
I guess that would explain it, then.


Blitzplotter(Posted 2011) [#60]
@big10p, that website is mental, the make the tea link raised a smile.


D4NM4N(Posted 2011) [#61]
I thought the demos were quite informative myself. It depends on what kind of user you are.

If you consider extremes you either;

See a super impressive demo with loads of bells and whistles, say "ooh wow". You buy it, then drop it the minute you look at the source & API, because it is so -"deep"- you end up never really producing anything worthwhile anyway. (or spend your life trying to get XY and Z shaders working on more than your state of the art NVidia, that hardly anyone else has....... not to mention your 3 "target" platforms you were planning on).

-OR-

You look at a mediocre visual but when you look at the source/API (and if you are an experienced programmer, Game artist, or just a guy with a good imagination) you will see much potential... And most importantly might just get something finished and polished.... (and most importantly running on everything possible).

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skn3(Posted 2011) [#62]
Horsey rocks! I had never beta tested a blitz app before so there were new testers this time round! Those who missed the signup should have been following the blog when a public invite was sent out last year!

I have added some more apps to the website for your viewing pleasure!


Richard Betson(Posted 2011) [#63]
@taumel
As you say on GLFW it performs well. Satisfied? :O)


You can increase the speed by changing set SetUpdateRate(30) to say 60 you should be able to double up the speed. I have set lower to try and meet up with lower end systems as this really pushes it in performance. I can get it to 60 on my system but it sometimes lags at first. I have recently had it running on XNA and it's seems to do well there too.


Satisfaction 8)

L8r,

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ziggy(Posted 2011) [#64]
It performs a lot better on XNA in my computer.


WERDNA(Posted 2011) [#65]
lol, I love the Horsey demo!

After playing a string of not overly impressive demos(Sorry guys), I found the Horsey
demo and it became my instant favorite.

Go Horsey!


taumel(Posted 2011) [#66]
Here is another tryout, the famous mno.

This time i wanted to have something smooth on HTML-5 for a change and test the performance of animations and sound a bit. Animations work pretty good but sound really isn't this well implemented so far. OGGs take their time, can't loop properly. Playing more sounds doesn't sound good at all and panning doesn't seem to be implemented. Beside of this i really miss Rand for exclusive integers random values, hopefully the random module will be enhanced.

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jhans0n(Posted 2011) [#67]
The Monkeystein one is pretty cool!


BlitzSupport(Posted 2011) [#68]
Another nice demo, taumel!

Regarding audio, this is very much down to the platform; from the mojo.audio docs:


Note that not all targets have equivalent audio capabilities. In particular:

HTML5: ChannelPan and ChannelRate do nothing.

Flash: ChannelRate does nothing.

Android: ChannelState always returns -1, ie: 'unknown'.

Also, when designing for low performance hardware it's a good idea to try and minimize the number of channels used.



For HTML5 in particular, it depends on how (or if) the browser has implemented certain features -- this goes for graphics too; also, the HTML5 audio spec is still definitely a work in progress, as you can see here.


taumel(Posted 2011) [#69]
Thanks!

I guess i should invest some time into reading the docs. :O)

Anyway HTML-5 for sure isn't an audiomonster. I don't know if this is due to monkey or the wip status of the HTML-5 implementation but if i let the last tryout play for a longer time, at some point it stops playing sounds, not only for this but also for other audio content afterwards. Jumping a little bit between several HTML-5 demos also freezes Chrome and Firefox on OSX, so that you have to kil the task. Actually it needs a OSX system reboot to get audio working again.

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