Who will be interested in using Monkey 2?

Community Forums/Monkey Talk/Who will be interested in using Monkey 2?

Playniax(Posted 2016) [#1]
I am curious.

Anybody here interested in using Monkey 2 when it finally comes out?

Obviously Monkey 2 and also it's website are full in develoment but to me it looks like a 'marriage' between Monkey and BlitzMax : http://monkey2.monkey-x.com/

What do you guys think?


Brucey(Posted 2016) [#2]
I don't see much advantage of Monkey 2 over BlitzMax.
It's not compatible with any of my modules, so I'd be losing a huge library of tools.

Is it a lot faster than BlitzMax?

What are the advantages?


Naughty Alien(Posted 2016) [#3]
..far as i can tell, BMax is much more pleasing option..since i have no interest of any kind to bother with mobile apps, BMax is way to go...i dont see benefits from using M2 over BMax for what i need..


xlsior(Posted 2016) [#4]
..far as i can tell, BMax is much more pleasing option..since i have no interest of any kind to bother with mobile apps, BMax is way to go...i dont see benefits from using M2 over BMax for what i need..


Me neither, especially with all the tweaks that Brucey made to NG.


Matthew Smith(Posted 2016) [#5]
I intend to - but really want Windows 10 support once the desktop target is completed. Been supporting development via Patreon to help out.

Looks to be coming together nicely.


Matty(Posted 2016) [#6]
After reading some of that blog I think for Android I will stick with java because given I know it there's no reason to take what feels like a backwards step for me to a intermediate language that simply produces native code as output which has to be then imported into an Android development environment.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#7]
Of course, Playniax. MX2 is just awesome - beside C# it’s the best thing I ever used.
Perfect language. Prevents many hassles of C++, speeding up development time -
like no need to write header files and implementation files, and having no problems to use forward-referenced functions etc.
Full OOP, with operator overloading, templates, anonymous lamda functions, advanced and fast build-system, etc.
Cross-platform, including mobiles, 64bit support, unsigned and signed primitive data types,
modern syntax, enums, direct C++ import/connection, etc…

That’s about the (free, open-source) programming language. Now we need much more advanced developers
to build the giant library system, like C#’s .NET Framework. Add everything to the Framework,
and development times for end-users get reduced drastically.

And RAD - Rapid Application Development.
And RGD - Rapid Game Development.

Good help system and modern cross-platform IDE required, of course.


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#8]
@Danilo: I couldn't have said it better myself!

@Brucey: Love what you are doing with Max NG! I may not need to port Defenstar now and just compile the old source for IOS and Android.


MonkeyBone(Posted 2016) [#9]
Nope. I'll stick with C++


Wiebo(Posted 2016) [#10]
I'm interested and will be playing with it for sure. As soon as the docs are in an ok state and there are some examples I'll give it a go. Just for fun, if nothing more.


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#11]
Nope. I'll stick with C++'

Just out of curiosity, why be on the BlitzMax forum? :)


AdamStrange(Posted 2016) [#12]
definitely nope here.

Possible move to NG once i've got all my libraries working.

but another language shift with Mark - nope. cause in a years time there will be mx3, and zx0, and then QL88, possible xx7 and who can forget the impending xl5 (fireball)... hehe


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#13]
The new generation of modern developers will understand MX2.
You can’t take/convert every QuickBasic coder to it, that’s for sure -
but it’s not a problem at all. The future is what counts. The past is the past - gone forever.


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#14]
but another language shift with Mark

Everybody his own preferences of course, nothing wrong with that but never saw the problem in 'shifting' between the BRL languages (and I mean the languages them self). I know because I shift between them on a daily base.


Brucey(Posted 2016) [#15]
The new generation of modern developers will understand MX2.

Not sure what you are getting at there, given that in my day job I use languages with all those super-sexy "modern features".

I thought my questions above were quite valid.


Naughty Alien(Posted 2016) [#16]
..i found it weird that, here is advertised Mark product, to folks who are hanging around here, for decade or more.. :)


Brucey(Posted 2016) [#17]
Maybe it has something to do with -
Now we need much more advanced developers
to build the giant library system



dynaman(Posted 2016) [#18]
I might give it a look and although I am very happy at the work everyone is doing (Brucey especially) the amount of work to get modules up and running and the incompatability problems between different modules is a real barrier to using Blitzmax now.

I liked BlitzMax since it was code and go for the most part, no fiddling with loading compilers and having them not work for esoteric reasons...

once again, not a slam on anyone - it is just a trend I used BlitzMax to avoid. I avoided Monkey 1 due to the same problem rearing up there, compiling to an intermediate langauage? No thanks...


Dabhand(Posted 2016) [#19]

You can’t take/convert every QuickBasic coder to it, that’s for sure



Not every coder comes from QuickBasic, some of us have been using these super doper features that mx2 is advertising for years, and some of us can safely ignore most of them in our projects!


The future is what counts



Yeah, I spied the roadmap... Great! :/ #sarcasm

I dont want to slam either, it's not meant to be, BRL have created some mighty fine stuff that I've enjoyed using over the years, but, since Mark ditched the Blitz line, the road he's following now sadly doesnt interest me, and I've built two games with monkey1, I have tried with it but... I just dont like its way.

Dabz


Pingus(Posted 2016) [#20]
Same remarks than dynaman. MX2 seems interresting to me if it allows to build for Android/IOS without hassle. Well for IOS I guess there will always be hassles anyway ;/


DStastny(Posted 2016) [#21]
The pattern I see in these responses is. I'm a professional who already has access to languages with these features which are not the reason I have used BRL products. If I want those features I would use something else. I know its choice I made when Blitzmax was abandoned.


Ian Thompson(Posted 2016) [#22]
I doubt I will pick it up and that is a first for me and a BRL product. I've had roughly the same experience as Dabz. I also work mainly in 3D nowadays and C# has nearly all the language features that MX2 hopes to attain. I may yet eat my words if something unexpected gets pulled out of the bag though.


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#23]
I'm also eagerly anticipating on MX2 and I don't have any idea what will be included.

I do hope it finally gets full 3D support with the same commands as B3D with some additional commands like in OpenB3D.


Winni(Posted 2016) [#24]
Anybody here interested in using Monkey 2 when it finally comes out?


Unless it is positioned as an all purpose development tool for multiple platforms, and unless it comes with built-in database integration and other stuff that is necessary for multi-platform APPLICATION (and NOT games) development, and unless it comes with a serious IDE and serious documentation... Then no, I won't be interested.

I have no need for a multi-platform games-only development language. But I actually have a real need for a REALLY GOOD multi-platform application development language - or for a really good development environment for web applications (read: something that doesn't force me to dig into the ugliness of HTML, JavaScript and PHP). It's 2016 and web application development is still a royal pain in the ass. Why's that? Where's the Visual Basic 6 for web apps? I know, Xojo is trying - but it's expensive and lacks A LOT.


Steve Elliott(Posted 2016) [#25]
No. Because it's all about language features that don't interest me, and less about graphical features, that do interest me.

A language as sophisticated as Monkey 2, with very basic 2D Graphics, is quite frankly a joke. Wake up Mark!

Even a basic 3D Engine is very worthwhile. Sending people out to follow half-arsed attempts at a 3D Engine is just not on. If this is a language that is aimed at games, then add the Blitz 3D Engine at least!


RemiD(Posted 2016) [#26]

A language as sophisticated as Monkey 2, with very basic 2D Graphics, is quite frankly a joke.


Well said... Let's be trendy, in group. :P


Steve Elliott(Posted 2016) [#27]
I really can't comprehend why somebody so talented at producing computer languages, and also a 3D Engine...Simply is re-inventing (and arguably improving) C++, while at the same time producing merely a 2D Engine. C++ and SDL 2 already do that.

Blitz 3D introduced a complete package, that was so simple to use. IMO that is where Mark should focus. Rather than trying to be a C++ beater with a rubbish graphics engine.


RemiD(Posted 2016) [#28]
Look at the blitzbasic gallery, look at the monkey gallery, which one makes you dream and motivates you to create your own game ?


Steve Elliott(Posted 2016) [#29]
Exactly. Blitz3D everytime.


MonkeyBone(Posted 2016) [#30]
Just out of curiosity, why be on the BlitzMax forum? :)


Entertainment value.


Hardcoal(Posted 2016) [#31]
I left monkey!
Its Darn heavy and lost the whole point of being an easy language to use.
I would have used it if it was with integrated 3D Engine/Physics..
Like the old days of Blitz3D


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#32]
I agree with you guys that are still with B3D here, even if I'm now a pro monkey and bmx guy. If MX2 is just another 2D engine then I think there would be nothing new there.

I have seen and tried a lot of cross platform game engine and languages out there regardless of language and they're way more faster and optimized that offers a lot of animation and 2D capabilities.

So here's hoping that a full 3D capabilities and some extra 2D stuff gets its way to MX2..


Gabriel(Posted 2016) [#33]
I'll probably play around with it. I never even tried the first gen of Monkey but with the new MX2 features, it's becoming a modern language which I might enjoy working with.

An unpopular view, it would seem, but personally I'm a big fan of dropping 3D. I'll admit that the lack of 3D in BlitzMax was hugely off-putting but those were different times. A lot has changed since then in the world of indie-friendly developer tools.

You can't compete with the likes of Unreal and Unity for 3D, so why bother? I'm not even sure that I'd prefer Monkey MX2 over Unity for advanced 2D stuff, but for lightweight stuff which doesn't need complex visuals, it could have some value. Much better, in my view, to concentrate on doing a few things well than trying to everything badly.


LT(Posted 2016) [#34]
You can't compete with the likes of Unreal and Unity for 3D, so why bother?
Because someone needs to fight the Walmarts of the world? :)


GW(Posted 2016) [#35]
I'm still on the fence.
I've supported the patreon since the beginning and was very excited when it was announced. But as Mark gets further along, he keeps stripping away all the things that makes Blitzmax great and putting in stuff of far less value to me. Monkey2 is starting look more and more like it's targeting Java fans.

Thanks to Brucey and NG, I can still program in Bmax and get the speed of c with real threading. It gives BMax a brighter future.

Mark is an amazing language designer, but I'm worried monkey2 will totally miss the target for people like me who need to get real work done.

I'm hopeful though.


Wiebo(Posted 2016) [#36]
GW: I have the same problem, but I decided to try and learn a few new tricks. If only for the fun of it. I'll see where it ends up :)


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#37]
After checking out the MX2 forums and the available modules, sorry I don't see anything there that would spark interest for a common developer at this time. I would rather try Monkey 1 or stick with Blitzmax/BMXNG.

It's still in its early stages to get excited about MX2.


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#38]
After checking out the MX2 forums and the available modules, sorry I don't see anything there that would spark interest for a common developer at this time. I would rather try Monkey 1 or stick with Blitzmax/BMXNG.

It's still in its early stages to get excited about MX2.


John G(Posted 2016) [#39]
MX2? Probably not. I joined the Blitz parade rather late. Attracted to BlitzMax because of Basic roots and cross platform -- PC and Mac. No interest in 'Free' mobile apps. Don't understand 3D. Never used OOP knowingly. I've recently peaked backwards at BlitzPlus and Blitz3D and see 2 beautifully crafted Basic languages with ease-of-use as main goal. In short for me -- BlitzMax forever!


Pingus(Posted 2016) [#40]
Seems that my hope to a have simple 'hit build'->app running is gone...

http://monkey2.monkey-x.com/

So, to build a simple app on a device, I have to learn Mx2, and Android SDK (to not speak about the whole Apple stuff)... modern tools should simplify coder's lives ;/


BlitzMan(Posted 2016) [#41]
Pointless OP really Monkey2 is nowhere near finished,i will let you know,if i will use it when it is.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#42]
@Pingus:
I don't think so. Mark is moving some of the complex build things, that are very different for
Android and iOS, out of the compiler. If this special platform-dependend things get moved into
some sort of package-builder (.apk etc.) that is run automatically after MX2 build process,
the "hit build" -> "app starts on device" is the same for you.

I think it's a change in the compiler internals Mark is talking about, and end-users shouldn't be too worried about. ;)

Removing the ability to hit "F5" -> "app starts on device" wouldn't make any sense at all.


Pingus(Posted 2016) [#43]
@Danilo,
Thanks it seems reassuring althought what Mark wrote:

My current thinking is for monkey2 to generate a static (or dynamic) lib that contains all the app code (and only needs to expose a bbMain), that can be dumped into a ‘target project’, ie: an Android Studio or XCode project. The SDL code might end up in the target project too, so it can be properly initialized at the right time and hacked if necessary to deal with app suspension or whatever.


makes me think that there will be a bunch of setup at least. I don't know exactly what means 'dumped into', let's hope it does not mean "copy by hand xx files into a specific directory, then run a specific tool (that you have to learn also) and then run a final 'building' to get a apk". Seems quite some hassle. I hope it will be at least automatic althought I wonder about the whole compiling time.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#44]
@Pingus:
To me it sounds like there will be a template-project for Android and iOS (like MX1).
MX2 then copies the template project to output directory, compiles the output code,
and "dumps the output into the template project".
Now it can automatically be packaged and executed.

But, if you want to change some specific project settings, you may have to modify
the template or output project.
This can be done most easily by using Xcode or Android Studio etc.
For example, open the iOS project using Xcode, go to project settings and fill out
your developer ID information for app signing, before releasing into AppStore.

That's actually the same with MonkeyX1 already. You can open the output project
and change many settings before re-compiling. The difference is that MX1 hacked
some very few settings (AppTitle, AppOrientation) into the output project (which is
a hassle according to Mark), but many other Android- and iOS-specific settings
are not accessable/changeable using MX, so you change it in Xcode anyway.

Maybe the community can automate that project hacking/modifying, using a app.config + GUI system.


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#45]
Rather than trying to be a C++ beater with a rubbish graphics engine

The monkey graphics 'engine' is not rubbish! Just maybe not what you need (no 3D for example). It is there mainly for 2D and it does the job very well! Probably even better than BlitzMax but I haven't compared speeds.


Brucey(Posted 2016) [#46]
Probably even better than BlitzMax but I haven't compared speeds

Mojo2 runs fine in BlitzMax. Is there another one I don't know about yet?

Making sweeping assumptions like that isn't helpful to your argument :-p


Richard Betson(Posted 2016) [#47]
The monkey graphics 'engine' is not rubbish!

You know it. :) It rocks it hard! Here is an image from my gaming framework for Monkey-X with " 1-Million+ " map objects in 7 parallaxing layers of map spaces and all of it in a windowed GUE (graphic user environment). I am doing more with Monkey and mojo2 then I ever did with BlitzMax and it will just get better with Monkey2.

I'll have a video of this up (different thread) shortly and you can judge for yourself if mojo2 (and Monkey!) is awesome or not. From my experience mojo2 is sweet!




Gabriel(Posted 2016) [#48]
Because someone needs to fight the Walmarts of the world? :)

Sure, but you don't beat Walmart by playing them at their own game. You beat them by offering something they can't offer.

For me a modern language, solid 2D, lightweight back end and lots of platforms is certainly an improvement on Unreal and perhaps even on Unity. Drop the modern language features and throw in a generic 3D engine and I don't see anything that the others can't already do better.


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#49]
Looks great Richard! but it's really too early to say that with the success of Monkey (user base, games published, crossplatform + consoles) does not necessarily translate to MX2.


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#50]
Mojo2 runs fine in BlitzMax.

Exactly! Mojo2 came from Monkey so I was just responding to some here implying Monkey has a rubbish graphics engine and as you know is simply not true. Besides I was talking about BlitzMax, not BlitzMax NG...

Making sweeping assumptions like that isn't helpful to your argument :-p

Well, I did use the word 'probably' :)

Because someone needs to fight the Walmarts of the world? :)

And somebody has to fight the bloatware of the world :)


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#51]
Monkey 1 looks great and stable even if I only tried the free desktops+web version, and I really like the wide range of platform it supports, it's impressive.

I can't say the same with MX2, there's nothing to review about coz it looks like it's a complete rewrite. :/


Brucey(Posted 2016) [#52]
Besides I was talking about BlitzMax, not BlitzMax NG...

So was I ...


Dabhand(Posted 2016) [#53]

Maybe the community can automate that project hacking/modifying, using a app.config + GUI system.



Let me stop you right there if I may...


The new generation of modern developers will understand MX2.
You can’t take/convert every QuickBasic coder to it, that’s for sure -
but it’s not a problem at all. The future is what counts. The past is the past - gone forever.



Thank you!

Dabz


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#54]
> Thank you!

Sorry Dabhand (and everybody else) - got a bit too enthusiastic and enraged/angered/upset here.


Dabhand(Posted 2016) [#55]
Oh mate, dont apologise, just realise that even though you believe monkey1/2 is the super doper shit your pants language that ends all languages better then sliced bread with strawberry jam on... There's some of us that think it isn't, and it's a pointless exercise in what it's trying to be, and, it's just no good trying to big something up to people that know what they want, and what your selling isn't it!

Ultimately, and this thread shows, the problem in all of this is that BRL has split the community left, right and centre... And it's certainly not your job to get upset by it!

Go make a coffee eh and reset! ;)

Dabz


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#56]
I know...

- First BRL product I bought licensed was Blitz2D - still have the CD here
- Only few weeks later Blitz3D was announced. Didn't want to pay again so shortly after the B2D purchase.
- Bought Licensed PureBasic instead, 16 years ago. One-time purchase with life-time updates. Still using it for writing small tools, and it's still actively updated - always for free!
- Learned and used C++ and C# in-between the years. Digital Mars C++, Visual Studio & MSDN, Intel C++, etc.
- Looked at Blitz3D from time to time, but games was not my real area of interest anyway
- Looked at BlitzMax when it was announced, and few times after that, but didn't like the (old) 'Type' syntax and only few libs available when it started. Never seen the 3D stuff that I expected to come for BMX (after B3D).
- After getting my 1st iPad Mini 2 and Google Nexus 7 tablet, and having a Windows Phone, I bought licensed MonkeyX because of the many natively supported targets (of course, checking out other options as well)
- Also paid for BlitzMax at the same time, just to support BRL further for MonkeyX development, without intention of using BlitzMax
- 2 or 3 month later or so (still learning the new stuff), BRL announced that it has problems and further development is at least paused (just bug-fixes if necessary)

You see, I have my own history with BRL. I was disappointed with/by BRL more than 1 time,
but I really like the MX2 language nonetheless. The project is free and open-source right from the start,
and that's different from all other products before. Very important!

If you pay for a commercial product and it gets abandoned shortly after, it may hurt and make you angry -
not so much with free open-source projects. ;)
I can't remember ever getting angry or enraged when an open-source project ceased to exist.

Beside that, I'm now little bit more experienced than 16 years ago (at least that's my personal feeling... LOL :D).
If the developer of a closed-source product suddenly dies, products often get compatibility problems after a while (new OS etc.).
That may be a really huge problem if you depend on the use of that product for your every-day-work.
With free open-source software (FOSS) and some experience it's usually not such a big concern/issue... ;)

Last but not least: Maybe Mark has changed, too - over the years. No pressure to sell something anymore.
No pressure to make paying customers happy, etc.
Just free open-source software, so he can concentrate more on, and put more into, The Code -- instead managing sales and so forth.
Worth considering and thinking about, in my opinion.


RemiD(Posted 2016) [#57]

just realise that even though you believe monkey1/2 is the super doper shit your pants language that ends all languages better then sliced bread with strawberry jam on... There's some of us that think it isn't, and it's a pointless exercise in what it's trying to be, and, it's just no good trying to big something up to people that know what they want, and what your selling isn't it!


+1



If you pay for a commercial product and it gets abandoned shortly after, it may hurt and make you angry -
not so much with free open-source projects.


BlitzMax 3d engine has been opensource for years, where can i see the fixes/modifications/improvements ?
Blitz3d engine has been opensource for some time now, except the upgrades provided by Bobysait (thanks again), where can i see the fixes/modifications/improvements ?

On my side, i have tried to understand the source code of Blitz3d but i admit that (for now) i don't have the level of understanding to fix/modify/improve it.
So, personally, i prefer a closed source engine with all the essential functionalities, with no major bugs, fast enough, than an open source engine with lacking functionalities, plenty of bugs and slow... As i said before : open source does not magically make something good !

Fortunately for some of us, there are generous people who share their fixes/modifications/improvements.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#58]
> BlitzMax 3d engine has been opensource for years, where can i see the fixes/modifications/improvements ?

From outside I'm not aware there ever was an open-source BMX 3D engine.
BMX was OSS only after paying, not free.

> Blitz3d engine has been opensource for some time now, except the upgrades provided by Bobysait (thanks again), where can i see the fixes/modifications/improvements ?

Sorry, but that's not real, living, open-source software - in my opinion.
The old BRL products were open-sourced only after being virtually dead and abandoned.
Maybe good for adding it to the computer history museum... but different from real, living, FOSS.

Today even licensing a DX9 engine would be questionable - we are at DX12.x already. ;)


Dabhand(Posted 2016) [#59]

From outside I'm not aware there ever was an open-source BMX 3D engine.



There was... Max3D, it died soon after BRL dumped it on the community to update/maintain.. ie He was going nowhere with it, got bored of it and released the source!

Dabz


RemiD(Posted 2016) [#60]
@Danilo>>I agree that it is better to be able to access the source to be able to fix/modify/improve it, but my point was that only a few have the understanding/skills and motivation and time to do that... And not everybody will share their fixes/modifications/improvements, and a version will probably be incompatible with another version... Not as easy as it looks/sounds.


Naughty Alien(Posted 2016) [#61]
..during max3D time, plenty of folks on board were ready to pay some nice sum for that module..i haven't heard a one person having problems with paying for that..i never really understood, what went wrong with that, considering that people were ready to pay for it, more than 100 bucks B3D was..having such module, and with language such as BMax, i think, userbase will be a live while author will have all time to slowly expand BMax further and charge for it..look at what Brucey made out of it soon as he put his hands on to source..why such thing was not possible for its original author, is beyond me..instead, now is present 2nd incarnation of new language, and i have strong feeling, 3rd will kick soon after 2nd..


Steve Elliott(Posted 2016) [#62]
Precisely NA...P*ssed a lot of people off that.


degac(Posted 2016) [#63]
@Naughty Alien
I was (.. and I'm!) ready to pay for that 3d official module! Hope never dies :)


look at what Brucey made out of it soo as he put his hands on to source..why such thing was not possible for its original author



Technically BMX-NG (from what I understood) is the implementation of Monkey approach on BMX source! (translation2target etc)
Ironically BRL/Mark had the solution in its own hands to bring BMX *everywhere'... but he prefered another way (re-writing *another* language/syntax breaking up with the past BlitzMax).

For MX2 I think Mark learned from his 'errors' (I don't consider them 'errors' really, just things become too complex/complicated).
MX2 has very interesting things (for a basic user like me!), it seems it has a solid syntax/logic built.
MX2 will be *mainly* a language.
Many things handled before by the compiler/translator should be managed by the IDE (from what I understood for example we need to use :String and NOT $... this is a work for an IDE!).
There are some good thing (like the 'window' approach to handle GUI/OS events), lambda, fiber and other.
From what I saw/read MX2 *should* have a great support/integration for 3rd-party module, in an easier way than BMX.

The bad things?

1. MX2 is still in an early alpha/beta stage (I'm not a pro-programmer, so expertimenting it it's like playing with fireworks...)
2. Considering MX2 like a 'rapid dev kit' is completely wrong (at the moment): no IDE, no automatic 'tool-chain' (except for translation/compilation), no integration with other things (ie:Android studio)
3. lack of something interesting to view (at the moment, just the Xmax demo)

But I have more interest in MX2 than in MX1 (licensed, but at the end never used!)

I agree a splitted community (BlitzBasic, MonkeyX, MX2) it's a shame.
I hope someone would understand that need of ONE solid user base.


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#64]
I could say and Im surprised that I got more help over here about MX stuff compared to posting to mx forums. for some reason I dont know

Its splitted but not to a wide margin, it seems most mx users came from here as well :D which is a good thing.


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#65]
Maybe it's better for 3D nowadays to import a supported engine like Ogre3D, UnrealEngine, or CryEngine -
and not write another engine from scratch. Mentioned engines were developed for some years by teams of developers,
often available for many platforms (incl. iOS etc.)
On the other hand, using such big engines is probably not as easy as using Blitz3D...


Richard Betson(Posted 2016) [#66]
Maybe it's better for 3D nowadays to import a supported engine

I think it is and one of Monkey2's strong points will be importing third party engines and libraries. Why reinvent things when you can use proven and widely supported resources. Mark has a lot to do getting the core of Monkey2 going so it is IMHO upto us (leaders in the community) to bring in things like 3D engines. Monkey2 is open source and I think it is time to start treating it that way by picking out the parts of the language where you can improve it by adapting or creating resources that solve some of the issues listed here. There is plenty of time to get going and lots of support to get it done.

I am thinking of doing this and open sourcing my gaming framework for Monkey-X/Monkey2. It now seems to me to make more sense to support Monkey2 by providing quality and flashy / attention getting resources that add to Monkey2 and help lift it into a wider audience. I know I am serious in my Monkey efforts and so are many others and together (along with Mark) we will deliver a development platform that will be successful.

It is important to note that those who are helping to drive Monkey2 forward are in large part seasoned coders with many years of experience. Experience that in the end will change and improve the BRL path we have been on. Change that is welcome and lasting.


popcade(Posted 2016) [#67]
Well, I just want to go back to Blitz for a little break (did many TypeScript job and feel boring). And I found BMX NG is going pretty usable now, and Monkey 2 also has som progress, which is better?

BMX NG:
* Familiar syntax
* Many existing modules, most works
* Supported by Brucey
* Now Android support, and maybe HTML5 coming.

Monkey 2:
* More refined syntax than Monkey
* Promising targets (coming)
* Originally by Mark


EdzUp MkII(Posted 2016) [#68]
I have looked at MX2 and the language looks more confusing than a pileup between C, MonkeyX and C#. It looks all over the place.

BlitzMax's power is in its simplicity not putting tons of crap on top to make it mobile friendly.

As the saying goes no matter how much you polish a turd its still a turd. Maybe writing a framework so max code can run native would be a big plus otherwise i can see it going the way of the monkey before its even launched.

For me limited time and all have chosen a different avenue.


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#69]
I think I'm going to go as far as Monkey but if NG progresses and make the solid mobile transition with 3D that would do it for me.

There are a lot of cross-platform frameworks out there that are just not Basic like syntax to speed up prototyping or making a production quality app which I'm totally fine with it since I have some C++ background.


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#70]
BlitzMax's power is in its simplicity not putting tons of crap on top to make it mobile friendly

Monkey X basically has the same simplicity! You don't need to use the 'complex' stuff so that doesn't mean anything. Also saying things like 'no matter how much you polish a turd its still a turd' like it reflects on Monkey is just absurd. I have used BlitzMax and Monkey for many years and they both have strengths and weaknesses and you may not like the one or the other but it doesn't make any of them a bad language or 'product'.


EdzUp MkII(Posted 2016) [#71]

Monkey X basically has the same simplicity!


I never said it didnt, actually I have created several things using MonkeyX over the years.


You don't need to use the 'complex' stuff so that doesn't mean anything.


Once again I never said anything to the opposite.


Also saying things like 'no matter how much you polish a turd its still a turd' like it reflects on Monkey is just absurd.


I was more aimed at MX2 where it seems to be veering into obscurity of loads of different things rather than a simple to use basic language.

For example:
MX2
#Import "<mojo.monkey2>"

Using std
Using mojo
Using mojo2

Class MyWindow Extends Window
	Method New()
		Super.New( "My Window",0,0,640,480,WindowFlags.Center )
		Destroyed=App.Terminate
		ClearColor=Color.Black
		'Load resources here...
	End
	
	Method OnRender( canvas:Canvas ) Override
		App.RequestRender()	
		'Mojo2 rendering code here...avoid SetScissor and SetViewport for now.
	End
End

Function Main()
	New AppInstance
	New MyWindow	
	App.Run()
End


MonkeyX
Import mojo

Class MyGame Extends App
   Method OnCreate()
      SetUpdateRate 60
   End
   Method OnUpdate()
   End
   Method OnRender()
   End
End

Function Main:int()
   new MyGame

   return( 0 )
End


BlitzMax
Graphics 640, 480, 32
Repeat
   Cls
   Flip
Until KeyDown( KEY_ESCAPE )=1
End


I have used BlitzMax and Monkey for many years and they both have strengths and weaknesses and you may not like the one or the other but it doesn't make any of them a bad language or 'product'.


Im not saying its a bad product you miss my point, my point is if you keep adding layer upon layer of things onto the base product then the base product becomes something else. Currently MX2 has Fibers, Aliases, Enum(handy as it is), and loads of other things. If Mark had stuck to the initial idea MX2 would already be out there and with us but from the Blog it does give the impression that at points in the coding cycle he goes off and adds x feature to see if it would work.

My point is get the base product out first then add extra things then you can gauge the community and how well received the new items are depending on what people are making with the system you have provided.

EDIT:Just in case my 'ramblings' werent clear what I am putting forwards is simply if the base language gets to complex then people will ask 'Why MX2 why not learn Java or C#, they are all as complex as each other BUT Java and C# are standards?' then all MX2 will be is a niche language that will vanish like its predecessors.


Richard Betson(Posted 2016) [#72]
I think this quote from Mark Sibly sums up what to expect from Monkey2 and it's new features.


> I probably wil not understand how to use a lot of what can be done.

Don't worry about it!

Monkey2 is mostly backward compatible with monkey1, so you should be able to use it more or less the same way you used monkey1 - think of it as a sort of 'super strict' monkey1.

You don't HAVE to learn the new stuff to be able to write useful code, but it's there if you're curious. You may even find yourself using it without fully understanding it, eg: by copying/pasting example code, and that's fine too. Some modules may require you to learn the odd new feature to make full use of them, but you can just learn these things on a 'case by case' basis as you go.

I don't really consider monkey2 to represent any great 'shift in paradigm' or anything like that. The new stuff is really just things I've wanted to add as I've used monkey1 over the years. Of course, once you start using some of the new features you may start approaching problems a bit differently, but that's sort of the point.


As I see it many coders coming from other languages will feel at home with Monkey2's new features. For those who use Monky-X the transition will be easy and the new features can be ignored for the most part if desired.


EdzUp MkII(Posted 2016) [#73]
But what i am asking is what about a new perspective coder, what has a complex MonkeyX2 got to offer over something like Java/C#/ or one of the other languages?


RemiD(Posted 2016) [#74]
When was it decided that is was better to code with a syntax different than the way we think/speak. I don't understand the advantage to complicate the syntax to achieve the same thing...


EdzUp MkII(Posted 2016) [#75]
As the examples in post 71 everything after blitzmax has taken more to get the same result.

For me I cant understand why everything required couldnt be done behind the scenes in the parser and then the compiler. BlitzmaxNG does it so it can be done ;)


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#76]
> But what i am asking is what about a new perspective coder, what has a complex MonkeyX2 got to offer over something like Java/C#/ or one of the other languages?

It's native, cross-platform, without the need for a runtime-environment like Java/Mono/.NET Framework.

In comparison to C++ it adds some nice features like not having to write header files, not requiring forward-declarations,
an advanced build-system, and MX2 continues the traditional syntax-line of Blitz/Basic-like languages without using "{}", "->", "::", "const Color& getFillColor() const;" etc.

Nonetheless it provides an advanced and modern object-oriented language with features such as
interfaces, inheritance, templates, function/method/operator overloading, automatic garbage collection, anonymous lambda functions,
importing C++ (Functions/Structs/Classes/Enums/Templates/Constants/...), etc.


EdzUp MkII(Posted 2016) [#77]
If its like MonkeyX it will require a runtime for each platform.

Its all going to be down to the end user with loads of other languages entering the market it is a interestibg time for us coders.

In all fairness though i have downloaded the MX2 demo and will give it a whirl just as soon as i can work out how to save with the IDE


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#78]
The Xmas v3 demo is pretty old (4 month), so it may be better to use the latest github version.

If you are on OS X you can clone and build it using that simple script (creates a 'monkey2' directory):

clone.sh - just for first-time cloning
git -c "core.sharedRepository=group" clone https://github.com/blitz-research/monkey2.git

chmod 755 ./monkey2/src/*.sh
chmod 755 ./monkey2/bin/mx2cc_macos

cd monkey2
cd src
./rebuildall.sh
cd ..
cd ..

update.sh - Getting latest updates
cd monkey2
git pull
cd ..

chmod 755 ./monkey2/src/*.sh
chmod 755 ./monkey2/bin/mx2cc_macos

cd monkey2
cd src
./rebuildall.sh
cd ..
cd ..

I use Mollusk currently for MX2 editing and compiling.


EdzUp MkII(Posted 2016) [#79]
Im on windows so will grab the latest build and give it a whirl :)


AdamStrange(Posted 2016) [#80]
ignoring "my language is better than yours". The key to any language success is it's help system.

BlitzMax help is usable. without the support website forums, it becomes turgid and hard to figure out.

For Mx2 (whatever) to be any good, the documentation and help systems have to be first rate. I would go further and say they are more important than the editor.

Taking post#71 you can see without knowing imports and a whole load of code, you won't even get a 'simple' window.
Following this. using std, using mojo, using mojo2. what the hell are those and why do i need them? if I am using mojo2 why do i need mojo? I doesn't create a good impression.

if mojo2 is better than mojo. why do i need mojo? it isn't version2 its a totally different thing. or is it?

what is std? a sexually transmitted dinner? Again, I can surmise it is 'standard', but what exactly and why do I need it.

Clarity, simplicity...


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#81]
what is std? a sexually transmitted dinner? Again, I can surmise it is 'standard', but what exactly and why do I need it.


If I'm not mistaken, I think that is equivalent to stdio.h, standard input/output in C

#include <stdio.h>
 
main()
{
    printf("Hello World\n");
    return 0;
}


I guess like 'Import brl.standardio' in Bmax


Dabhand(Posted 2016) [#82]

a sexually transmitted dinner



Class... I like that, made me proper lol! :D

Dabz


Dabhand(Posted 2016) [#83]

I guess like 'Import brl.standardio' in Bmax



Only the difference is the code you've wrote there looks like mx2 apart from being a smidging less wordy! :D

EDIT: Just to compare:-

#include <stdio.h>
int main(void)
{
    puts("Hello World!");
    return(0);
}


#Import "<std.monkey2>" 'Or whatever

Function Main:Int()
	Print "Hello World"
	Return 0
End


^ Progress! ;)

Nah, I'm still not on the train, and to be fair, if I'm not now, I dont think I'll ever be! :P

Good luck to you all though! :)

Dabz


EdzUp MkII(Posted 2016) [#84]
Rusti: some compilers would throw a wobbler at that they would like the'int main( void ) or int main( int argc, char *argv[] ) as you have return 0; in there.


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#85]
I know, that's just an old beginner tutorial example that I quickly copy pasted here: http://www.programmingsimplified.com/c-program-examples

I'm just trying to answer AdamStrange's question, not to meant to create and divert to another topic lol.


EdzUp MkII(Posted 2016) [#86]
Ah ok lol

Dont worry im not a language snob just wondered ;)


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#87]
Yeah haha ok. I'm with Dabhand too and I think Monkey 1 will be my last product with BRL. I'm still learning Max :-)


Danilo(Posted 2016) [#88]
@AdamStrange:
> Following this. using std, using mojo, using mojo2. what the hell are those and why do i need them?

#Import really imports files (source code, images), frameworks, etc.

Using brings things (classes, functions, structs, etc.) from a namespace into the global namespace.

'Using' is not required, if you like to use full name qualifiers:
#Import "<libc>"              ' Import a library/framework

Struct Point
    Field x:Int
    Field y:Int
End

Function Main()
    Local pt:Point
    Print("sizeof(pt):")
    Print( libc.sizeof(pt)  )  ' use Function sizeof with full namespace
    Print("---")
End

But you may want to 'Using' the namespace. It imports everything from a namespace into the global namespace,
with the result that you can use it directly - without always using full name qualifiers:
#Import "<libc>"               ' Import a library/framework

Using libc                     ' We are using namespace 'libc' -
                               ' That means, everything from namespace 'libc'
                               ' becomes directly available within the global namespace

Struct Point
    Field x:Int
    Field y:Int
End

Function Main()
    Local pt:Point
    Print("sizeof(pt):")
    Print( sizeof(pt)  )        ' use Function sizeof - we don't need to write libc.sizeof() anymore,
                                ' because we did 'Using libc' to use everything from this namespace directly
    Print("---")
End

So you can write:

1) Without 'Using'
#Import "<std>"

...

std.filesystem.ChangeDir( std.filesystem.AssetsDir() )

2) Using 'std' namespace - so everything within this namespace becomes available globally
#Import "<std>"

Using std

...

filesystem.ChangeDir( filesystem.AssetsDir() )

3) Using 'std.filesystem' namespace - so everything within this namespace becomes available globally
#Import "<std>"

Using std.filesystem

...

ChangeDir( AssetsDir() )


See also: Wikipedia - Namespace > In programming languages


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#89]
Bump!

Monkey 2 has matured quite a bit so do I dare to ask if some people changed there minds on it for better or for worse?

Please keep it constructive!


GW(Posted 2016) [#90]
For me, I'm still not using it.
I'm still a patreon supporter of Mark/Mx2, but It doesn't do anything I want that BMax-NG can't do as yet.

After claiming MX2 would be the next Blitzmax, Mark drank too much of Java cool-aid and took the language down a wrong path IMO. syntax is too wordy, stripped out the best stuff from bmax, slow down productivity.

I'm watching it closely, the html and android targets look interesting, and Mark is a brilliant language designer.

But MX2 was billed as the next version of bmax/ back to the roots of serious programs for serious programmers. Bmax-NG does meet that goal though..


skidracer(Posted 2016) [#91]
There is some secret sauce in monkey2/src/c2mx2.monkey2 which I am very excited about.

Using a libclang module to import native libraries such as chipmunk and friends could even be called very very exciting.


Steve Elliott(Posted 2016) [#92]

Mark drank too much of Java cool-aid and took the language down a wrong path IMO. syntax is too wordy



I really agree with this!


BlitzMan(Posted 2016) [#93]
Mark Sibly is a free spirit he can do what he bloody well likes.As long as he is happy.

Mark drank too much of Java cool-aid and took the language down a wrong path IMO. syntax is too wordy

What is this drivel.

You code in monkey2 it compiles to javascript through enscriptem whats the problem.

It is still Monkey2 code.


Blitzplotter(Posted 2016) [#94]
I'm with BlitzMan, i'm still loving using MonkeyX, have had a quick play with Monkey 2 and am impressed with the demo code provided, supplemented with Playniax's framework - there is a lot there for someone who is new to coding.

Will I be using Monkey 2 in the future, yes. However, my current project is in MonkeyX, so I'll be using my compile time for that for the near future.


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#95]
Mark Sibly is a free spirit he can do what he bloody well likes

And I like what he is doing.

You code in monkey2 it compiles to javascript through enscriptem whats the problem

And isn't Blitz NG not trying to do the same thing?
To me it looks like NG is trying to do what Monkey already does.


RemiD(Posted 2016) [#96]
@Playniax>>why don't you (and others who like Monkey) post on the monkey forums instead of spamming here ? see the domain name ? "blitzbasic"


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#97]
why don't you (and others who like Monkey) post on the monkey forums instead of spamming here ?

I consider this topic a genuine general discussion. Besides the topic was made before the Monkey Talk forum was up otherwise I would have posted it there.

So I guess it's fine to talk about Unity, Unreal, Java, DarkBasic, GameMaker, Nuclear Basic, Nuclear Fusion, Microsoft Surface Studio, BlitzMax NG or any other non BRL products but a BRL product or BRL related topics are considered spam?

Hmm, go figure...


TeaBoy(Posted 2016) [#98]
Christ! If you lot spent more time on your endeavours instead of arguing you'll be millionaires by now ;)


RemiD(Posted 2016) [#99]
Well it is not really spam since Monkey is also a BRL product, but i find it confusing and annoying that there are several people talking about unrelated languages/engines all the time. This forum was for blitzbasic, then it was for blitzmax too (which is not blitzbasic anymore but can be used with a similar syntax than blitzbasic), and now it seems to be for Monkey too which is totally unrelated to blitzbasic...

But this is not my forum, and since the owners/moderators don't care, feel free to continue.


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#100]
Well, if it's confusing it maybe better to move it to the Monkey Talk forum but that is up to the moderator.


Steve Elliott(Posted 2016) [#101]

What is this drivel?



I guess he meant the code examples at post 71 show a system that is 'too wordy'.


DaY(Posted 2016) [#102]
So far I like the idea but I don't see why he stoped bmax as all he keeps doing is making more complicated Bmx clones.

He should of just improved max and charge for updates or mods one thing the game creates found early was Plugin api upgrades make money.

at this point I would rather pay Brucey my cash and hope he makes an easy way to make lib files work or a detail tut so I can bring my DX11Renderer into NG. from VS15.

Mark does not get the idea of marketing he is living in a dreamland now kids are smarter they will soon in school learn VB C# as standard his target should be the older people who just want to make things Bmx had the right balance Monkey 1 was to game specific monkey2 wants to take on c# but with less tech, less money and a guy who is no longer relevant.


he wont compromise on simple things like the damn .monkey extension to m2, all he is doing is wasting time on some thing that is 10 years to late and will be DOA.

kids wont use it as they will likely use Unity/Unreal or strait c#.

its us old fools that would use it, BUT its not us that he wants.


TeaBoy(Posted 2016) [#103]
@DaY, Instead of spouting nonsense, make something substantial to prove it's limitations and help make it better.

Most of the BRL products are open source, that's good marketing in my opinion as it helps to attract new talent to improve what already exists to guide it to new dimensions not previously explored!

I don't believe Monkey2 wants to take on anything, there are many products available with there own advantages and disadvantages, go research them, use the many products and stick with what you like, if not, create your own!


DaY(Posted 2016) [#104]
why would I want to help better a dead on arrival language when bmx still works fine.

how do I know he wont just say meh lets make chicken oop next week then all that time was wasted were I could just use what works.

every one here knows marks marketing strat was terrible lee bamber is half the coder but with advertising I bet made a lot more actual revenue.


TeaBoy(Posted 2016) [#105]
If the language is DOA and BMX still works fine, you know what to do.

You're obviously very experienced, I believe your time is better spent providing feedback on the disadvantages of XYZ choice, offer constructive opinions, if the developer chooses not to listen then I know what I would do!


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#106]
Yes, new start. Lets have constructive opinions.


DaY(Posted 2016) [#107]
I would say mark has forgotton what basic is supposed to be fun and easy not a system were you need the same info as the big boys.

People want stuff to be easy to setup easy to learn when its a hobby and if its a job c++/c# does it all has for years and you have a chance of a ok job.

im just going to "Monkey about" and code I want all in one 2d/3d no extra mods no external code the dev adds items direct charges for major upgrades.

not a program were you need to know oop to even begin using it.


Pete Rigz(Posted 2016) [#108]
I'm loving monkey 2, should be creating lots with it over the next year :)


AdamStrange(Posted 2016) [#109]
I have to say I'm liking Monkey2.
But I have to say that DaY hits the nail right on the head. It's a struggle to get stuff done when mark is being 'prickly' about it. Documentation is not good, ted2 is serviceable, but not brilliant. setup can be a nightmare, compile time should be much faster and eventual exe sizes are way too big. And monkey2 vs mx2 COME ON MARK !!!!!!
Stoopid naming convention (bananas, etc)

Its a programming language in its purest. we're talking turbo pascal without the niceties. And theres it's problem. Anyone new wont be in the slightest bit interested ;{


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#110]
If you want easy setup try our distro: https://playniax.itch.io/pyro-2

And it has Pyro 'built-in'

It should run desktop apps right ayway.

I plan to create a easy 'plug and play' setup for the other targets too eventually.

Once it runs, it runs just fine.

I agree that a lot can be done about the setup, configuration etc. but I do not with agree all the arguments here. Some are simply not true and some are also personal opinions but I am not going to get in that again. And btw, it's fine. Not here to start discussions. Just interested in why people use Monkey 2 or not? Feedback is important when it's constructive.


DaY(Posted 2016) [#111]
the thing is Playniax why are you doing Marks job for him it is he who should release working builds to test not end users, when this happens we end up with 10 billion different builds with different features.

I like Max as I can use oop(bmx version) and make a large project or I could just type

Graphics blah blah

repeat
flip; until Appterminate() = 1

#Import "<std>"
#Import "<mojo>"

Using std..
Using mojo..


Class MyWindow Extends Window

	Method New()
	End method
	
	Method OnRender( canvas:Canvas ) Override
		App.RequestRender() ' Activate this method 
		' if key escape then quit
		If Keyboard.KeyReleased(Key.Escape) Then App.Terminate()		
	End Method	
	
End	Class

Function Main()
	New AppInstance		
	New MyWindow
	App.Run()


nothing should take that many lines to just open a window when its for a hobby


AdamStrange(Posted 2016) [#112]
In this instance you're slightly missing the point.

BlitzMax was not a modern language and didn't play well with modern os unless you wrote a framework of some kind to support proper multitasking, etc.

graphics, repeat until app terminate just hogs the CPU.

monkey2 is based on a proper inbuilt framework (mojo). So you need to tell it a few things first, then it will deal with the rest for you. and it will play nicely with multitasking, etc


coffeedotbean(Posted 2016) [#113]
I am still a patreon to Monkey2 (MX2) as I think Mark has good intent but I would have liked to have seen some focus on the "tools" this time round, such as a modern IDE & Steam API integration - those get added and supported by Mark/BRL then I'll jump aboard, for now BLIDE is a no brainier when using BMAX and there are plenty of threads out there regarding Steam API integration. I don't see MX2 attracting anyone outside of the current user base if the "tools" are not provided, same happened with MX1.


degac(Posted 2016) [#114]
Well, the initial question was


Anybody here interested in using Monkey 2 when it finally comes out?



And - after 8 months - the real question is 'Has Monkey 2 reached the final version or is it still in (continuous) development'?

I follow it on Monkey2 website, in the last months there were interesting progress (like reflection and C2Mx2 (note the name please!) oct-2016). But also changes in mojo2 et al... so it surely is a 'living project', but someone could ask if it is 'stable' to use.

About the critics on the language:

Monkey2 is surely 'wordy' (but like any other 'modern' programming language - MINUS (Thanks God) curly brackets and strange symbols)
People that knows C/C++ feels at home surely - but even I (I'm not a pro-programmer, just an hobbyist with few time) can use and understand quite everything!
Excluding the fact of the case-sensitive language (What >:( ) I consider Monkey/Monkey2 language as the 'natural' evolution of BlitzMax.
You just only need to 'start' with a Main() function and some predefined Methods: not the end of the world!

Of course 'less is good' in typing is always well accepted :)


DaY(Posted 2016) [#115]
was just an example not realy pure code.

I think when Bmx came out it was heading the right way Marks mistake was not addin that damn 3d mod its nice to be able to make ur own but it would be nicer if he did it.(All in one System)

so far the syntax of monkey is almost a basic version of c# but why learn Monkey2 when c# is not much different in thought process.

one last thing Documentation HAS to be far better than the start of bmx though.


AdamStrange(Posted 2016) [#116]
but someone could ask if it is 'stable' to use.

bloody stable - rock solid on my machine. but... The language is volatile, things change, things move. in that respect I wouldn't can it a V1 release yet - wayyy off until lots of things are finalised.

But... If you want something that is very productive and you can work in that sort of environment, then it great...


BlitzSupport(Posted 2016) [#117]

graphics, repeat until app terminate just hogs the CPU


Not here, it doesn't:



Unless you're literally doing a hard repeat/forever loop, which would hog the CPU, as you're not letting the OS get a look in. Not sure why you'd do that, though!


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#118]
As good as Monkey2 is looking, it seems NG is BlitzMax 2. The only thing so far I'd be looking for with NG is building native code/NDK. Sdk method is good and fast though so I can't complain.

NG android compilation:
1) MaxIDE full APK process

Monkey2 android compilation:
1) Build libraries on IDE
2) gradle :(


monkey2 is based on a proper inbuilt framework (mojo). So you need to tell it a few things first, then it will deal with the rest for you. and it will play nicely with multitasking, etc


Mojo2 is now available in Blitzmax NG thanks to Brucey. Not sure how complete the mod is but it's looking great so far.

https://github.com/bmx-ng/mky.mod


Playniax(Posted 2016) [#119]
the thing is Playniax why are you doing Marks job for him it is he who should release working builds to test not end users, when this happens we end up with 10 billion different builds with different features.

I am not doing his job. For now I am just releasing the same builds except it has Pyro included for people who want to use it. When I say plan to do more I will first contact Mark if I can help out there first before I will decide to 'do my own'. That is also the nature of open source isn't it?

I like Max as I can use oop(bmx version) and make a large project or I could just type


After the small initial setup ( Main plus Window class ) the same thing goes practically for Monkey 2.

Mojo2 is now available in Blitzmax NG

Mojo2 is not the same as Mojo from Monkey 2. The Monkey 2 version is called plain Mojo and is a different beast.


RustyKristi(Posted 2016) [#120]
Mojo2 is not the same as Mojo from Monkey 2. The Monkey 2 version is called plain Mojo and is a different beast.


ah ok, thanks for clearing that up Playniax. With all the mojos it's kind of confusing :) For a beast, I hope it comes with 3D.

Anyway, if I were to pick on these 2 free and open source frameworks, I'm still gonna go with NG, for now, because it is easier to use and Blitzmax syntax.


Xaron(Posted 2017) [#121]
I might a bit late to the party but after releasing 8 games with Monkey 1 and one with Unity I'm going to start my first game using Monkey 2 together with Pyro 2. :)

What I don't like is the new split up of the community. The already small Monkey 1 community was split up again and I have no doubts we will see MX3 at some point.

To my surprise Mark now announced the possibility of a 3d module:
http://monkey2.monkey-x.com/2017/01/03/happy-new-year-everyone/

Oh and he wants to do some marketing...


RustyKristi(Posted 2017) [#122]
That's good but now some bright people has other plans to do their version of Blitz "X" nowadays so it will be getting to the point that the community will be split.

For me, still Blitzmax and for 3D, OpenB3D is still going strong thanks to angros47. I wish the wrapper is the same but hey I can't complain. :-)

I'm losing my interest in Monkey 1, but it's still there in some way.

As for marketing, it's not about the product but how good the marketing strategy or people involved are. So BlitzMax or Monkey 3 makes no difference at all.