So... what's the best Database manager?
Community Forums/General Help/So... what's the best Database manager?
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| All I know of is SQL (which I'm probably wrong on the fact that it's a database manager), and Microsoft Access. Are there any other good ones out there? Is Microsoft Access even a good one, or is SQL better? Edit; Anyone know if this feller is any good when working with Access? http://www.accessdb.org/ Cheers, Robert Hernandez Last edited 2011 |
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| SQL is just a query language (a structured query language, in fact!) for expressing queries on a database. It's not a system of any kind, although every database system of any note makes use of it. I haven't got enough experience to answer the question proper, but I do know that Apache Derby is very easy to set up and use. Here's a list of a few names to research: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_relational_database_management_systems As always, I recommend tabbing every link from that page and reading about them all. |
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| Some friendly advise. Watch yourself. If you go into this database specialist job, and you don't know what your doing, it might be a bad thing for you. That said, good luck! |
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| MySQL, MS-SQL, Oracle etc are all very similar except for subtle, yet potentially showstopping differences (if you aren't expecting them). If you're using GoDaddy as you stated in a previous thread then just bother yourself with MySQL since afaik that's the one they support. If you're after a tool to actually add/edit data in a database then I can't help with that one, since all I ever use is PHPMyAdmin which comes with CPanel. It ain't pretty but for my own personal use, it doesn't really need to be. As always, I recommend tabbing every link from that page and reading about them all. I'd probably wait for a few more replies to narrow down the field a bit. Otherwise you'll be reading about it til next Easter. |
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| @Yasha Many thanks for the list! And I totally forgot about apache :P I'm playing around with Wamp right now though, so I think that's going to help me out a lot. @Ross C Thanks Ross! I know that things could go very badly indeed. [example] Boss: Well, Werdna? Have you got all the customers sorted out so we have all of their credit card numbers and contact info on file? Werdna: Yep, Boss, all sorted. Boss: Good boy! Here's a jelly bean. Employee: Boss, boss, I've got bad news! One of our databases was hacked because someone forgot to encrypt it, and another one has collapsed entirely and is just giving us error messages. What do we do? Boss: looks at Werdna Werdna: Flees [/example] @Gfk I'm using GoDaddy. I'll await a few more replies before making a decision, but so far I'm kind of liking the looks of Wamp. (After I spent hours getting the darn password setup...) Cheers, Robert Hernandez |
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| SQL syntax is not usually all that different between databases at least not for simple queries, it kind of has a standard structural pattern but certain DBs have some syntax quirks. IMO: -MS access is bloody awful. Reason being it is well out of date, not really supported and has some really sketchy driver support out there. -SQLite is a good choice, especially if you want to go into games and phone stuff (as ios and android etc use it extensively) -MySQL would probably be my first choice for websites and is supported by most languages, fully cross platform. -MS-Sql is not a good choice IMO unless you do nothing outside a windows scope (and even then i would rather use one of the above). -Oracle.... Certainly not a choice i would recommend, unless you are an enormous corp with tonnes of money. Last edited 2011 |
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| Thanks for the summary Dan :) I figured that MS Access wasn't the way to go, just because it was made by Microsoft, but wanted to be sure in case they got it right for once ;) Since WAMP has MySQL and Apache, would that alone include pretty much everything that I might need? Cheers, Robert Hernandez |
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| SQLite is the best. It's the fastest and easiest to use. It's even built-in into PHP5, so you don't need to install any slower database. So LAMP is useless, just use LAP. And the programming interface from C++ is also ridiculously easy, you just include one lib file and it works. And of course there's a graphical GUI also (SQLite Database Browser), which is just one exe which you can associate with .db files. Last edited 2011 |
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| Actually if you are totally clueless; and from the question and the way it's asked I would assume you are, Microsoft Access is not a bad way to start, particularly the most recent version (2010). Access provides you functionality without having to know how any of it really works but does give you a gental and reasnobly powerful entrance to databases. You could do a lot worse than start with Access 2010 and "Using Access 2010" by QUE for an introduction to database applications. Do not imagine that any of this qualifys you as a DBA, and IMHO you should stay well away from that job, but if you want to get to know databases this is a reasnoble start. Darkheart Last edited 2011 |
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| I'd suggest you start taking some courses in this stuff you are looking to work as a specialist in WERDNA. You're a trier, and I applaud that, but the way you're going about learning this stuff is pretty haphazard. |
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| What are you going to use the database for? If it is just in-house, and a limited number of users then access or sqlite are fine. If you are going to need to allow web access (or someday allow web access) or allowing a bunch of people in house to access the database at one time then I highly recommend Mysql or MS sql-server. No matter what choice you go with though, get some training on it. Nothing screws you up quicker then creating a database without knowing the fundamentals of database design - but it won't bite you in the butt till later when you are REALLY stuck with the design... |
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| You're a trier, and I applaud that, but the way you're going about learning this stuff is pretty haphazard. I know it's haphazard, but it works. If I had listened to the numerous comments along the lines of 'take some english courses first', 'spend months researching your market before publishing', 'don't publish this, it's not good enough', etc, concerning my book, I wouldn't be a published author. Same goes for like comments concerning web design, which if followed would have stopped me from getting paid to design the yogurt website, and then I would never even be in this situation where I have bundles of potential clients who are interested in my work. Sorry for the mild rant, but comments like those(not yours, although it's in that same genre), have annoyed me to no end. The way to get somewhere and gain experience in something, is by actually having to do it in a commercial 'screw up and you get fired' environment. That's what works, at least for me. If I screw up on the databases, then I'll just go back over em or not get paid. Simples. If I lose some reputation over that, then oh well. That's the gamble I have to take. Now that said, I have taken courses in Microsoft Access 2010, so I'm not totally clueless about databases. I at least have some understanding of how they work and how to set one up. @Dynaman The database will be used by a largish company to hold clients e-mail addresses and contact info. I have no idea if he wants to allow web access, but I'll err on the side of caution and say yes. |
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| It's a fair point WERDNA, but my suggestion would be to do both. Do the real world work and take some night courses at the same time. And bear in mind that if you screw up some of this database stuff, you may be putting your customer in a really bad situation in terms of the security and integrity of their data. You also risk getting sued if you screw up too badly. |
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| You could try something like http://www.simplecustomer.com/ to get you started, brush up on your php and add your own features to it. Setup a daily backup and you're good to go |
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| WERDNA, regarding your above rant, a few points: a) You're not a published author. You're a self-published author, which anyone can be if they are willing to pay to do it. b) So you're learning on someone else's dime? Nice. What you're doing is misrepresenting yourself as an "expert" at something you don't know much of anything about. You're a database "expert" who doesn't know the difference between a "database" and a "data base". When you screw up, you learn from the experience, you say? Great! But what about the poor people who you conned out of their money by misrepresenting yourself as something you're not? c) You sneer by implication at people who have not resorted to shortcuts, excuses, and self-delusion to actually become skilled in their fields of expertise - people who learn their stuff before going out to "do" it. What you fail to realise is that there is a world of difference between doing something well and doing something badly - it's not just about "doing". Sadly, you're just coming off as a fool; a wannabe who wants the rewards of hard-work and dedication without putting in the required effort to obtain them. To be blunt, but your passive aggressive arrogance really gets my goat. |
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| Noten on ms access: its a pretty dumpen down database thats geared towards an easy front end for simple, small datasets. It does NOT scale to any significant size, and using it as a website backed can Olympic end in tears (both from the company exec when it can't keep up, and from the developer who realizes he painted himself into a corner) |
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| and using it as a website backed can Olympic end in tears gotta love predictive text!i was texting my mum a few days ago about my 'scrounger' brother, but my phone insisted that i was trying to spell 'scrotum'. Luckily i spotted it. Last edited 2011 |
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| Werdna, what courses have you taken in the last 13 hours that have enlightened you ? Darkheart |
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| Not directed at anybody in particular but this thread is tantamount to a gang of yobs stamping on kittens. Giving polite advice is all that's required. I've learned from long experience that internet forums are probably the worst place you can go for advice about anything, unless its your goal to get shot to pieces for even asking. At least he's actually doing something that goes beyond sitting on this forum day in, day out, bitching about what everybody else is up to. He's willing to learn, given proper, friendly advice, and its the 'friendly' part that's largely lacking here. Were you all born knowing everything about everything? He doesn't know much about databases - that much is obvious, but all he's done is ask for advice and everybody's decided to give him a bloody good kicking for it? If you want to do something badly enough, then you will do it. Winners make it happen, losers let it happen. |
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| @GFK Yes it was trending a bit in that direction. Anywho, here's a Google search link for some sql database tutorials WERDNA. That stuff will probably give you far more information than this thread will. http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=sql+database+tutorial&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest |
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| > but I'll err on the side of caution and say yes. In that case I can recommend Mysql. It's free (always a plus) and there are plenty of docs online to get you up and running. On windows it has a very easy to use installer as well. Nothing wrong with jumping in feet first to a new technology, I do it all the time at work. Personally I have a rep as the IT guy who can do anything, if given time to do a little research. I'm sure I'm not the only one on this site like that too. |
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| At work I make Flex and HTML interfaces, with PHP (currently AMF PHP) on the server, to access MySQL databases. I use phpMyAdmin for admin tasks directly on the database, and I use WAMP for local testing. Here is an intro to PHP / MySQL: http://www.w3schools.com/php/php_mysql_intro.asp (Click next to advance through the parts.) That being said, of course it takes months or years to become reasonably good at writing such applications. Last edited 2011 |
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| Another possibly useful thing that comes to mind: Fundamentals of Database Systems is a highly-recommended book on the subject. Was used on the course I supposedly did (where I did learn one thing: I don't ever want to have to be a DBA). As for this... The way to get somewhere and gain experience in something, is by actually having to do it in a commercial 'screw up and you get fired' environment. ...I like your attitude, as it happens. But you have to remember that you're getting perilously close to that field they call "engineering": your mistakes may have more wide-ranging consequences than simply causing you to lose your job. Publishing and creative work are different, in that you don't have that same kind of accountability if things go wrong. I wouldn't use one to justify the other. If you've considered this, and are lucky enough to have a client where you can learn about the field without serious risk of destroying a company or accidentally killing people, then more power to you, and I'm glad you were able to find such an opportunity. On a third hand, as has been pointed out earlier, databases are a treacherous topic where mistakes might only come back to bite you much later on, so do consider that learning from experience may be less practical than it sounds in this case (e.g. an inefficient database, that is adequate at the time when you set it up, won't count as making a mistake for the purposes of learning, because you won't necessarily realise at the time that you made a design error, and will take home the wrong lesson!). |
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| Hello. Sorry, but here I would have to side with JustLuke. In a domestic/personal environment I think there's nothing wrong with experimenting with different technologies, especially if you know little about the specific technology and are looking to find your feet. However, if you're trying to sell yourself as a professional you're both screwing yourself and the customer if you misrepresent yourself. There's an old adage 'Lie and Buy' which refers to lieing about your abilities then buying a book to learn those skills. Databases are not games. They hold real life data and represent real life information. Irrespective of whether it's stock control, fleet management, banking, insurance or a social care system these systems impinge upon peoples lives either directly or indirectly, and they sure as hell impact upon the people running the systems. "I'll rewrite if I screw up" is not good enough - have some damned professionalism and integrity! I use MS-SQL in my day job and I think it rocks - then again, I generally work corporately and don't run into the scalability issues that Oracle suggests it's better at resolving. Oh, and it shouldn't matter what platform you run on, you can connect to any datasource from any platform (appreciatively on hosted sites that may not be the case.) MySQL has certain issues with it that stopped me from using it but off the top of my head I can't remember what they were and that was a few years ago so may have been resolved, and again is very good value for money. Access in a professional environment, as far as I'm concerned, is a big no-no. I used it for many years, wrote a large number of systems but ultimately was disatisfied with performance and durability. So I'd go for MS-SQL or MS-SQL Express(?) which is a free version of it, though it does have limits. Oh, and let me tell you - I'm really good with databases and know what I'm doing with them. You do NOT pick up those skills with a 'Teach yourself in 24 hours' - ultimately, as with any other skill, it's when you know how to ask the right questions that you start to learn properly. Sorry if the above seems like a rant, and I guess it is. It's not meant to be unfriendly but is exactly what I'd say to a friend or to someones face. Good luck with your venture but know what you're doing first. Goodbye. |
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| > MySQL has certain issues with it that stopped me from using it but off the top of my head I can't remember what they were and that was a few years ago Mysql has come a LONG way in that time. I have done professional work for Mysql, MS-Sql Server, and Oracle, although I have a fondness for Sql Server the cost/benefit of using it does not work out in it's favor compared to Mysql. The free version is interesting, and with the limited needs that Werdna has it should be more then sufficient. Of the three major DB systems (Oracle, Sql Server, Mysql) the only one I would strongly caution against is Oracle - if you have a professional DBA it is the best there is, if you don't it is hell on Earth. |
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| Hello. @Dynaman: All fair points, especially on Oracle. Goodbye. |
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| Not directed at anybody in particular but this thread is tantamount to a gang of yobs stamping on kittens. Giving polite advice is all that's required. I've learned from long experience that internet forums are probably the worst place you can go for advice about anything, unless its your goal to get shot to pieces for even asking. Much appreciate the support Gfk :) I don't actually mind it too much though. I especially like how JustLuke always asks the hard questions, forcing me to take a harder look at my own position, and maybe realize a few things I've been doing wrong. I shall reply to you both (JustLuke and SoggyP) in some length, when I get a moment. I'm in between college classes at the moment :P @Everyone else. Thanks for the links and advice, I shall pursue to the best of my ability! Cheers, Robert Hernandez |
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| One more thoughts: Backups. Backup your backups, back THOSE up, and don't forget to have a backup or two of those as well. Due to their nature, databases can be extremely important, and depending on the data that you're dealing with, it's not unheard of for a company to go out of business overnight if they were to lose their database of critical info. Can't stress it enough, make sure that you have proper backup procedures in place (and periodically verified by restoring one!) |
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| Sorry for not replying yesterday, Monday's I'm always swamped with stuff. It's a fair point WERDNA, but my suggestion would be to do both. Do the real world work and take some night courses at the same time. Working on it Bill :) a) You're not a published author. You're a self-published author, which anyone can be if they are willing to pay to do it. Whether I'm published or self-published matters not. Bad books get published sometimes that don't make much in the way of sales. What matters is that I'm actually making money from this venture. The only real complaint I've heard about the book is some random apstrophes, but those who pointed this out are still quite glad they bought it. b) So you're learning on someone else's dime? Nice. What you're doing is misrepresenting yourself as an "expert" at something you don't know much of anything about. You're a database "expert" who doesn't know the difference between a "database" and a "data base". When you screw up, you learn from the experience, you say? Great! But what about the poor people who you conned out of their money by misrepresenting yourself as something you're not? All of work is a learning process. You're always learning something new no matter what job you're on. Admittedly, you generally go into a job with a fair idea of how to do it, but whatever :P As Yasha said If you've considered this, and are lucky enough to have a client where you can learn about the field without serious risk of destroying a company or accidentally killing people, then more power to you, and I'm glad you were able to find such an opportunity. There's little harm done if I screw up, especially since this fellow is just starting out and will not have that many customers to begin with. He knows a database guy, so if I can't cut it, he'll have plenty of time to switch over to the other fellow. c) You sneer by implication at people who have not resorted to shortcuts, excuses, and self-delusion to actually become skilled in their fields of expertise - people who learn their stuff before going out to "do" it. What you fail to realise is that there is a world of difference between doing something well and doing something badly - it's not just about "doing". Sadly, you're just coming off as a fool; a wannabe who wants the rewards of hard-work and dedication without putting in the required effort to obtain them. To be blunt, but your passive aggressive arrogance really gets my goat. Um, sorry if it came across that way, but I'm not sneering? I have nothing but respect for those who take the classes needed to become highly skilled at what they do, I simply can't afford that option. As nice as it sounds to wait till I finish college, it's just not realistic. I need a job now and can't wait four more years to get one... a wannabe who wants the rewards of hard-work and dedication without putting in the required effort to obtain them. ... To be blunt, but your passive aggressive arrogance really gets my goat. Sorry if I came off as arrogant, but those who know me can tell you I'm quite a humble fellow. However, if you're trying to sell yourself as a professional you're both screwing yourself and the customer if you misrepresent yourself. Hmm, maybe I should have made this point a bit more clear. I am not selling myself as a professional. I selling myself as the local computer guy, who is pretty handy with most aspects of the computer, and can learn new stuff pretty darn quick. I am not seling myself as a hardened veteran who has had years of experience ;) And to end, as Gfk said, Not directed at anybody in particular but this thread is tantamount to a gang of yobs stamping on kittens. It's mildly ridiculous that I had to spend an entire post defending myself, when this is all that I asked So... what's the best Database manager? I didn't ask for business advice, or for a discussion about morality. I asked what Database works well. Cheers... Robert Hernandez |
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| Hello. That's what works, at least for me. If I screw up on the databases, then I'll just go back over em or not get paid. Simples. If I lose some reputation over that, then oh well. That's the gamble I have to take. This is what I took objection to - it's not just a matter of you not getting paid, you're screwing with someone else's business. Goodbye. |
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| As stated. The fellow knows that I'm not an 'expert' but is willing to hire me anyways. Tis his decision. And if I do screw up, there will be plenty of time to hire someone else to fix it. |
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| Since WAMP has MySQL and Apache, would that alone include pretty much everything Pretty much (or use the LAMP packages on linux / MAMP on OSX which do pretty much the same thing... alhough there are some problems with MAMP as you need to disable the built in SQL or something like that... we wasted a day or two getting that bugger going)You also Last edited 2011 |
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| thanks Dan! Zend sounds pretty good. I actually already have Netbeans from when I was playing with Java a little bit, trying to hack minecraft ;) |
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| As an IDE, I just use Notepad++ and set a Run command to "http://localhost", works a charm! Dabz |
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| I've been using Notepad++ for learning HTML. Spiffy little program :D Setting Run to the localhost is good to know though! Cheers, Dabz. |
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| Is it me or is Werdna changing his name alot!? ;) Jose Ruiz Robert Hernandez Dabz :P |
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| All the best in your venture. I've been in the database admin / maintenance game for 13+ years now and believe me, I still find new things out every day! I'm currently leading on a project to install a 'Business Intelligence Tool' at my workplace and believe you me it is extremely tough work! |
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| @therevills The 'Dabz' was an accident, lol. The 'Robert Hernandez' was a joke. I wanted to see how long it would take someone to notice, or if anyone even would ;) Jose Ruiz is my real name. (or is it...) cue x-files music @Everyone Else A general update. I have gotten a job as assistant to another computer guy, who works with pretty much any kind of problem someone might be having, from setting up the hardware, to removing viruses, to installing a network. Went on a trial run with him yesterday, following him around on his service calls, and he was quite impressed with my skillz. And I was honest with the fella, he knows I'm lacking in a few areas such as Linux, but he is quite happy with what I've got, and will be paying me $15 an hour to begin with, moving up to $25 after a shortwhile. That, on top of the numerous fellas who want websites from me, and the fact that I'm a permanent employee at CraveFrozenYogurt, makes me pretty well set in life, financially. I am now a very happy fellow indeed ^_^ |
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| That's good news Werdna, sounds like a kind of apprenticeship which would be a good thing to gain experience. |
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| Indeed! I'm pretty happy about it. |
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