Advice on buying a Mac

Community Forums/General Help/Advice on buying a Mac

GfK(Posted 2010) [#1]
This Mac lark is all a bit new to me.

I'm looking into picking up a Mac at some point soon but I'm not really sure on what's the best way to go.

Its main purpose will be to compile/test Blitzmax stuff on.

I'm torn between two systems:

MacBook Air - £1,174
1.86GHz Intel Core 2 Duo CPU
2GB Memory
120GB SATA hard drive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics

iMac - £969
3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB Memory
500GB Serial ATA Drive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M

OK, so statistically its a no-brainer. The downside to the iMac is that it will take up a lot more space than the Macbook would, and obviously won't be portable.

Are there any no-no's with the specifications on either of these, bearing in mind that all I want it for is to compile Blitzmax games on? Any "gotchas" with Apple systems in general?


andy_mc(Posted 2010) [#2]
why not buy a cheaper macbook? Or even a second hand one, as long as it's intel based it will be fine.


GfK(Posted 2010) [#3]
Because I don't know if they're any good for what I need. Even then an entry level Macbook is still £849 and it only has a 13" screen and GeForce 320M graphics - is that good enough for Blitzmax? The iMac I mentioned above has a 21.5" screen which is a huge plus, for me, as I use a 22" monitor on my current dev PC.

I tend to not buy second hand PC stuff (unless its cheap) as you never know how many flights of stairs its been dropped down - second hand Macs don't seem to be hugely cheaper than new ones. If I get a Mac it has to be new - at least its under warranty that way.


Oddball(Posted 2010) [#4]
I've not tested them all but I'm fairly sure that all the current generation Macs will run and compile BlitzMax apps. just fine. Myself, I got rid of my Windows machine and just use my Mac for compiling both OS X and Windows BlitzMax apps. Using virtual machine software like Parallels on your Mac you can compile and test on a whole host OSs from a single machine.


GfK(Posted 2010) [#5]
Parallels is not a bad idea. I have a test PC alongside my Windows 7 dev system taking up a bit of desk space. Could replace that with an iMac and use VM for testing... in Vista/XP...


*(Posted 2010) [#6]
I am currently using a Mac Mini with KVM switch and DMI-VGA converter (with mac keyboard) and its all working fine :).

Mac Mini's are ~£499 and if you get the KVM, keyboard, mouse etc it certainly wont set you back the other £672 that the macbook air would cost, yeah its not portable either but you will be able to use your existing monitor and the whole machine base unit is like 6 inches by 6 inches by two inches in total so will fit anywhere.

Any new Mac Mini will run BlitzMax perfect, my intel based one is 1Gb ram, 120Gb hard disk (they updated this to 2Gb ram IIRC) and it runs max without issues :)


Canardian(Posted 2010) [#7]
I think every computer should have 2-3 OS installed as multi-boot. There are programs which run only on a certain OS, even if the hardware would support it. So to maximize the amount of programs your computer can run, you need those 2-3 OS, and they help also in developing cross-platform apps, and sometimes they help also when one OS doesn't boot, and you can still repair it easily from the other OS.


*(Posted 2010) [#8]

I think every computer should have 2-3 OS installed as multi-boot. There are programs which run only on a certain OS, even if the hardware would support it. So to maximize the amount of programs your computer can run, you need those 2-3 OS, and they help also in developing cross-platform apps, and sometimes they help also when one OS doesn't boot, and you can still repair it easily from the other OS.


TBH I have never heard a more load of rubbish, the more OS's you have on a machine the more problems you encounter. I personally have a machine per OS, I have a netbook for WinXP, a netbook for Linux and a mac for well OSX :)


Brucey(Posted 2010) [#9]
Forget the "Air". You are paying a lot extra for super-slimness...

If you are keen on a laptop, there's a new Macbook just out (last week?) for £849 with 2.4ghz and an Nvidia 320M which is apparently a decent mobile graphics processor.

Mac mini is good if you already have a screen. The current model is similarly specc'd to the Macbook.

The latest iMac's also sport that i5/i7 processor, which may be important to you, if you need a bit of oomph.

Generally, any of the current line-up are more than capable of driving all BlitzMax stuff, so it's just down to a preference of what else you need - built-in screen... portability... smallness...


GfK(Posted 2010) [#10]
That's all the Macbook Air has going for it??

I think I'm leaning slightly towards the 21" iMac. Portability isn't a huge issue for me, and neither is desk space if its going to replace my existing test system with Parallels.

Hmm.... plug sockets..... how many plugs does an iMac need?


Brucey(Posted 2010) [#11]
Probably just the one.


Oddball(Posted 2010) [#12]
Yep just one. And the iMac doesn't take up much desk space either. It's not much bigger than a monitor of the same size.


Canardian(Posted 2010) [#13]
TBH I have never heard a more load of rubbish, the more OS's you have on a machine the more problems you encounter.
It works for me, and I have actually 6 OS on my computer, and no problems at all. Why should you get more problems instead of less problems, because all the OS are on seperate partitions, and you can boot to another OS if one OS doesn't boot.


xlsior(Posted 2010) [#14]
That's all the Macbook Air has going for it??


Pretty much, and the thinness does come at a price: In additional to the high sticker price, it also lacks an optical drive.

It really is more of an oversized netbook than a powerful laptop.

the more OS's you have on a machine the more problems you encounter


Once they run, they pretty much just run...

The problems may come into play during the actual installation, since the order you install your operating systems in IS important since not all operating systems are aware and capable of dealing with the existing bootloaders needed by the other operating systems.
You can also run into problems when you upgrade an existing windows OS to a newer version, it may mess up your boot partition and temporarily make the other OSes unreachable until you get that fixed.


therevills(Posted 2010) [#15]
My vote is for a MacMini... its so small and quiet, my wife loves hers.

It runs pretty well - we bought the "Early 2009" model with the upgraded CPU and RAM.

Ive compiled all my BlitzMax games on it (using Brucey's great cross compile "hack"), it'll be fine for what you want to do.

replace my existing test system with Parallels.

Why not just use bootcamp? Also wasnt your test system really low spec? (If so, I would still keep it :P)


GfK(Posted 2010) [#16]
Why not just use bootcamp? Also wasnt your test system really low spec? (If so, I would still keep it :P)
Because parallels allows you to allocate specific amounts of resources to virtual operating systems which is handy when testing graphics requirements, at least.

My test system is a bit knackered as my PCI graphics card died and a replacement would be stupid expensive for what it is. It has 8MB shared graphics but that's next to useless.


Who was John Galt?(Posted 2010) [#17]
I would certainly consider a Mac Mini if portability is not an issue.


therevills(Posted 2010) [#18]
Its been a while since Ive messed with a virtual OS, but when I tried games they didnt play well on them at all, most did even start...

Last time I did was when I was using Windows 7 XP mode with Flash and it was sooooo slow!!! I have used Virtual Box and VMWare both are pretty slow....

Even if this has changed, you wouldnt get a true indication of performance due to the game running in the virtual OS.

Or am I wrong? It would get great if I am - it would save alot of time.


jkrankie(Posted 2010) [#19]
I've recently bought a new Mac Mini after my old iMac died. It's ace! I'm really, really surprised at how good the nVidia Gfefore M is!

Cheers
Charlie


Pete Rigz(Posted 2010) [#20]
I got a refurbished macbook from the apple site for 799 I think it was at the time, it's done the job well so far. Unfortunately I've dropped a plug on it since so it's got a nice dent in the top :)


*(Posted 2010) [#21]

It works for me, and I have actually 6 OS on my computer, and no problems at all. Why should you get more problems instead of less problems, because all the OS are on seperate partitions, and you can boot to another OS if one OS doesn't boot.


Its when you get the corrupted partitions that cause the problem and in me years of using computer ive had loads of those with multiple OS's computers. Imagine if your partition table gets corrupted having to install ALL 6 OS's at the same time.


JaviCervera(Posted 2010) [#22]
Any current Mac will run BlitzMax great. I have a last-gen Mac Mini and a first-gen MacBook (which is 4 years old now) and I have developed on both using BlitzMax.

If you have never used a Mac before, I would go for the Mac Mini because is the cheapest option and perfectly fine for BlitzMax as well as iPhone development if you ever want to enter that world. If you like the Mac, then you could consider spending the amount of money that the MacBook Air costs.


ziggy(Posted 2010) [#23]
I would recommend you to NOT get the MacBook air. It does not have an optical drive, and the processor is slow. Any other new Mac is more than great to use BlitzMax.
I have a MacBook pro I bought 3 years ago, and I use it for the Mac compilations (and Music stuff I make) and I'm very happy with it (except that I really can't stand coding in a Mac, don't know why).


GfK(Posted 2010) [#24]
except that I really can't stand coding in a Mac, don't know why
"Because there's no MacOS version of BLIde" would be my answer to that question.

I'm almost certainly going to go for the iMac. The only laptop in my budget would be a 13" one and after much thought, I don't think I could cope with such a small screen. I despise using touchpads so it just doesn't make sense to go down that route.

The Mac Mini is all well and good but by the time I've done buying a mouse and keyboard, a monitor and a miniport-VGA adapter, its going to run to almost as much as an iMac anyway.

With the iMac I also minimise the number of extra wires dangling down the back of my desk, which is a huge plus.


therevills(Posted 2010) [#25]
KVM switch? Only one mouse, monitor and keyboard...

With an iMac, if something goes wrong with the screen you need to repair/replace/send your entire computer...


jkrankie(Posted 2010) [#26]
+you get a miniport to DVI adapter in the box.

Cheers
Charlie


GfK(Posted 2010) [#27]
Don't know... I heard that KVM switches knacker the picture quality a bit...?


therevills(Posted 2010) [#28]
KVM switches knacker the picture quality a bit


Ive used 2 KVMs at home, one was VGA which made the screen a tad blurry and a DVI one which is picture perfect.


xlsior(Posted 2010) [#29]
Don't know... I heard that KVM switches knacker the picture quality a bit...?


VGA KVM's do add some slight signal degradation, which can make the resulting image look slightly blurry. Quality varies, and it also depends on the quality of your cables (better shielded VGA cables = crisper signal). I've come across some VGA KVM's that introduce some slight ghosting, and others that look very good. I don't know if VGA is even an option for mac anymore, though - haven't they all switched to displayport / DVI by now?

DVI KVM's do not affect the quality since it's a digital signal, but they are much more expensive... Plus really finicky, it seems like -- most of the ones I've seen get pretty poor reviews. If you do go the DVI KVM route, make sure that you get one with some actual brains in it. The older / low end ones can have a host of issues when the two machines don't run identical resolutions, or when power saving kicks in one one of the displays, etc.
It's real easy to buy a lemon there, so make sure that you're getting one with good ratings.

Another potential option: If you have a monitor that allows multiple input methods such as both VGA and DVI, you may be able to connect both simultaneously, and switch between the two by simply by selecting the other input on the monitor itself.
(This may not work properly though -- for example, I've come across Acer monitors that would auto-detect a signal on the DVI port every five seconds, which meant that in DVI mode everything worked perfectly, but in VGA mode every five seconds the screen would blank out for a second... Unless I unplugged the DVI cable, then VGA worked just fine. Kind of annoying. Most monitors work just fine with both hooked up, though.)


*(Posted 2010) [#30]
gfk I use a KVM here apart from an 'out of bounds' error when booting there is nothing different about it at all.


Robert Cummings(Posted 2010) [#31]
edit: I meant macbook. Don't get macbook air as its depreciated... its just a gimmick. A macbook pro or standard macbook is more powerful in most aspects plus the air has no dvd or anything.


GaryV(Posted 2010) [#32]
GfK: I can't speak for others, but I would definitely love to hear about your experiences getting your feet wet in the Mac world, as a user and as a programmer. Please consider making a few posts about it as things progress. It could be very insightful to those of us who are considering jumping ship and looking to develop on OS X.


Robert Cummings(Posted 2010) [#33]
btw not macmini


I meant macbook.

Get a cheap macbook then you can run dual monitor display with no wires to worry about + wifi etc