where is the Blitz3d bug reports section/forum ?
Community Forums/General Help/where is the Blitz3d bug reports section/forum ?
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| Hello, Where is the Blitz3d bug reports section/forum ? I hope that it has not been deleted, there were several reports of bugs which are not fixed, and which can help coders to understand the cause of a problem in a Blitz3d program... here : http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/topics.php?forum=50 |
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| This site now has a single Bug Reports forum, I am concerned that you missed it or that the sticky Notice was not self explanatory. http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=107218 |
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| Skid why have you changed the layout of the forums anyway.Is it an ego thing. |
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| Yes. It makes me feel a lot better about myself and my sad pathetic life. Soon I will make it private so I can really relax. |
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| @skidracer>>i have seen the new bug reports forum, where the 2 threads about verifiable bugs that i have reported a while ago are not... Please keep the old Blitz3d bug reports forum, at least the threads recent enough with bugs which have not be fixed, it may be useful in the future. |
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| Yes. It makes me feel a lot better about myself and my sad pathetic life. Soon I will make it private so I can really relax. lol |
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| I think the bug report section no longer applies since blitz3d went opensource, unless you're reporting from an older version which would still be redirected to "upgrade to recent version" which is the latest opensource.. I think the baked fmod and the foss version is almost similar, just the fmod part. Github issues is there but I don't see much activity since the announcement. https://github.com/blitz-research/blitz3d/issues |
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| @RustyKristi>>your sentence is self contradicting... unless you meant "i think the bug report section no longer applies since blitz3d went opensource" (i still use Blitz3d v1.108) |
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| yes sorry typo there. corrected and yes the 1.108 is still the fmod version that I'm talking about which is the same as the opensource, less fmod baked, unless there was some changes done with 1.108 not being disclosed. |
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| @skidracer>>i have seen the new bug reports forum, where the 2 threads about verifiable bugs that i have reported a while ago are not... Please keep the old Blitz3d bug reports forum, at least the threads recent enough with bugs which have not be fixed, it may be useful in the future. But did you read the notice? Github, github, github. If you want Blitz3D maintained and care about it's future you need to accept the fact you will need a github account to make any difference and make some attempt to work with the new Open Source model. Github issues is there but I don't see much activity since the announcement. It is a chicken and egg situation. It does not change the fact that b3d bug reports now belong on github not here. |
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| I thought of suggesting moving the issues from here to the git repo (re-created by someone) but then I saw that a fork does not list the issues of the original repo. So this is also kind of limiting. @ skidracer You know that open source does not work that way ("open sourcing" and then wait for incoming pull requests). It is always: maintainer openly develops their app and if people fiddle into the source code they might somewhen contribute. somewhen! But even then ...see how many contributions Brucey gets for his "bah.mod" or "NG" ... its up to nothing (because of most users here are not capable of helping - except for creating issues, and this is what we - at least some of us - do). For most Blitz3D users "fixing" a bug is not an option. A driver of a car needs to call a mechanic too if he wants to get a special error in the engine repaired (or he buys a new or used replacement engine). bye Ron |
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| Github, github, github ok, ok, ok :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy5TJ0s2HJs |
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| @Derron FYI I disagree with more than half your opinions / posts but I am happy to keep an open mind. It is fun to recognise how large the difference is in our 'world view'. |
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| Feel free to elaborate. I am excited to see success stories of older products which came to live after getting open sourced. They are harder to find than the other products (actively developed). So for some products of BRL the open sourcing might have come a bit too late (which does not mean that there wont be people benefiting from open sourcing - eg. by reading some nifty code portions here and there). Edit: maybe a "language" is also a different kind of beast compared to a "framework". So fixes for brl.mod/pub.mod might happen with a greater chance than fixes for "blitzmax". PS: I try to be open minded too - but it is not always possible. bye Ron |
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| For most Blitz3D users "fixing" a bug is not an option. A driver of a car needs to call a mechanic too if he wants to get a special error in the engine repaired (or he buys a new or used replacement engine). I think to clear all this up and in all reality, which is understandable, Blitz3d is no longer officially supported in a way since it went opensource. That is what github issues is for. Even if you open up or put back the bug reports forum, I don't see how it can help "fix" any problem or new bugs that needs to be reported. skidracer's moving it to archive makes more sense. This is like the case of munch's openb3d wrapper, he already abandoned the project but still made it available up there in case someone would be interested. There's no support for it now here, well maybe from a few users, but still you can't post wrapper bugs here because the maintainer already "left the building", his repo should have those activities but the driver is no longer there. Github issues makes it easy to track duplicate issues so it can be referenced and link a pull request (in case of). When a project is put up on Github, the facilities for managing it are all there, even bug reporting. It's not the author's fault that users don't know how to use git/github, at least for reporting issues, you just need to create an account and post it there. And in case someone will bring it up, yes I don't have a github account myself, I used to have one (deleted it) maybe one of these days I'll sign up again! |
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| Updating other peoples code in Github might seem intimidating if you haven't used it before. All this pull / fork / etc. you are probably afraid that you'll mess up so I understand if the first step is a bit steeper. I guess one needs to take a leap of faith and just try. -Henri |
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| The big problem with issue tracking on github is: It only happens on a specific repo. So if the original repo contains the issues, and you forked it - you do not fork the issues too (you have the ability in the project settings to allow for issues on _your_ but only your! fork). So if the maintainer removes his repo, all the issues are gone. bye Ron |
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| This c++ syntax is like chinese to me, so i can't understand or modify it (and i don't have the time or motivation to learn c++), but the best approach in any big project imo, is to create a really simple base, and then create external systems which can be used or not with the base. (input, position rotate move turn entities, 2d rendering of textes images, 3d rendering of meshes/materials/textures, animations of joints/bones/skinnedvertices, lighting/shading, linepicks with pickables, collisions with collidables, physics with bodies, sounds, networking, ...) This way, any user can modify each system with its own fixes/improvements and then share it with others. Which is not the case with Blitz3d source code, so it would require a complete rewriting... |
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| But if issuer fixes it, they can then PR to the original. At most there may be one user (3rd-party) capable of working on Blitz3D issues anyway. So I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg, or whatever that means anyway. Going from (programming in) Blitz3D to (using) Github is probably a *huge* ask for most. Unless you are using source-control in your day-job, most developers on these forums just aren't going to have had that kind of exposure to these kinds of tools. There are successful developers here who still "source control" by zipping up their source every so often... |
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| Of course they can PR to the original - but I am not talking about fixes, but issue tracking and maintaining. Issues are bound to a specific repo. They do not appear (willently or unwillently) in a fork. So if the original (the forked) repo is removed (eg. owner looses trust in github.com) then all the issues are gone (except they were referenced in commits - I think they are kept then) @ step "programming -> github" Creating an account to raise an issue is not a big step but maybe an "unwanted" for some users. Fixing something and then PR'ing is the bigger step to master: - fixing takes knowledge of "blitz3d" + "language used to develop Blitz3D" - PRing needs knowledge in "git" + "github" (forking original repo, cloning fork to local dev repo, creating a branch to maintain a clear repo-history in case of declined changes, switching to that branch, making changes, committing changes, pushing that branch and changes to your fork-repo, create a pull request ... if meanwhile changes happened [I doubt that] you need to pull from original repo first ...apply changes / merge, ... ) For small fixes you of course could post your changes to the opened issue in the original repo - no need to fork or whatever: download current source as "bla-master.zip", unzip (you are used to use a zip, so no problem there), adjust code, and post the adjustments on the issue you opened before, so repo maintainer gets a bit to do (instead of pressing "accept/merge PR") to merge your changes into his sources. If you do not know what you changed - download bla-master.zip again, unzip to another folder and run "Meld" (or another diff-tool) over these two folders to get a small diff-file showing the adjustments you've done. Easy hmm? Problem stays that most people wont be able to do such things because step 1 (knowledge about blitz3d + used language) is not taken. People could - like RemiD said - fix things in the framework (eg. a bone is not rotated if you give a negative angle). Ahh - and before I forget it: another step to climb is to be able to compile the whole thing without needing masses of install/compile instructions. People prefer a "buildAll.bat" (or "make") and then to wait a bit. The more hurdles they have to take, the lower the chances to even participate a tiny bit. bye Ron |
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| Github not also a trend, but a tool without gimmicks. You get free account if you shared your repo publicly, and pay if you like it private. Even game dev giants use it when their product is under opensource (unreal, cry). As I'm seeing it and I hope this changes soon, successful opensource projects requires involvement and collaboration and contribution with other users, big or small. BRL repos in github.. https://github.com/blitz-research/blitzplus (0 contributors) https://github.com/blitz-research/blitz3d/graphs/contributors (0 contributors) https://github.com/blitz-research/blitzmax/graphs/contributors (2 contributors) https://github.com/blitz-research/monkey/graphs/contributors (10 contributor, top contributor aside from author, 184 lines of code) https://github.com/blitz-research/monkey2/graphs/contributors (1 contributor = blitz-research) For comparison, another opensource project which blitz users and other 2D artists should know or already know and already using in their projects, aka Tiled Editor.. https://github.com/bjorn/tiled/graphs/contributors (136 contributors, top contributor aside from author, 10k lines of code) Patron funding at around 1k$ monthly. It looks like it can't be helped for some technical or maybe "alpha male" reasons, but still I'm sure there's something that can be done with it. If this trend continues, then I guess it's a hopeless case to bet on any new BRL product after all. Reach out, hear them out, open up more to other people's ideas, contributions. It looks like that's the first way to do PR and marketing here. It may not fit perfectly, might bring a few bugs on the plan, so what? but community involvement plays a big big factor for opensource projects to be successful, not entirely monetary wise but overall in the long run. A lot of successful foss projects are not contributed by one people, Blender, Mono, Tiled there to name a few. A lot of bright and talented guys around here that can help in any way, some can do more than enough. Let this be not a One Man Show despite its opensource model/patron funding. If it does continue to be, then all I can say is good luck. "No Man Is An Island" - I'll leave that quote again and again as it seems to fit the product lineup well. Don't take all the credit, that's not how opensource works. Even the Linux kernel has a long list of authors/contributors other than Torvalds himself.. https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/CREDITS Honestly, it's like daddy vulture surrounded by baby vultures waiting to be fed on yet another awesome product. It's becoming a vicious cycle. My 2c. |
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