Unity 3D
Community Forums/General Help/Unity 3D
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| I'm the same one who is starting to begin 3D game programming and wanted to do web based stuff like I did with 2D game programming. I talked about Blitz 3D in a thread below this one, but you know what? I'm thinking about checking out the Unity software. I guess it's not straight programming like 3D Blitz is (though I wish it were - because I enjoy programming). Yes, some would say go to Monkey. Well, I'm already using Monkey for 2D purposes, but so far as 3D programming there seems to be WAYYYY more material including countless videos on youtube that shows how to use Unity. Well, I'm a visual learning you know. And Unity seems to do more of what I want it to do instantaneously. So, what do you all think about this idea? BTW, I have another thing I want to say. I also make 2D games in Java AND JavaScript. I keep the program called "Eclipse" on a flash drive i.e. the entire executable AND keep ALL of my game project files on the flash drive too so that whenever I want to resume doing my Java or JavaScript game projects, I can plug in the flash drive on ANY computer and resume working on my project out of Eclipse from the flash drive. It's just a plug in and play kind of deal.So thus, I just wish that Unity 3D/Blitz 3D/Monkey were that way. It's very convenient. But, this is just a rant. |
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| Well I guess it depends on what your overall purpose is.... Do you want to learn to program games simply as a hobby, because you enjoy it? Or is it because you are wanting to learn new skills? Or will it help you in other areas like your work/studies? Are you hoping to make a business out of it? Personally - Unity is just another tool in a game developers tool chest. It's not one that i would use but that's just me, but also because I guess I generally make fairly simple games that don't need something like Unity to achieve what I want to do...for the games I write it would be like using a flamethrower to light my bbq. |
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| Hey Matty, yes I mostly make games as a hobby out of enjoyment (if a career comes along then so be it, but mostly I make games for fun). And yes, my whole premise for learning 3D game programming/making is to learn some skill sets so that I can make cooler games too. Now, I'm just trying and researching and asking about different tools to see where they get me so far as 3D game programming since I'm a bare bones beginner when it comes to 3D game programming. |
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| My view : You can still create good enough apps/games with Blitz3d compatible with windows xp, windows vista, windows 7, windows 8. The advantages of Blitz3d are the possibility to render to an image, to render to a texture, to draw 2d things on screen precisely (plot, line, rect, oval, image, text), stencil shadows, and the simple syntax. The advantages of Unity3d are the possibility to use shaders, to export to several os, to export to a webplayer, but the syntax is more complicated. There is no ultimate answer, it depends on your understanding of each language and on what you want to make. You may be interested in this : http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=100694 http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=94320 |
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| I just wish that Unity 3D/Blitz 3D/Monkey were that way I thought Blitz3D could do that? At least within the confines of the same OS, anyway. On Unity... Unity works. People have had success with it. Beyond that you really need to be able to assess its actual features and compare them to your work style, which nobody else can do. If you want an environment with Unity-class features but potentially offering a more Blitz3D-style workflow (i.e. you can work entirely in one source file if you like), check out Leadwerks (also on Steam). It's a bit of a sleeping giant. |
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| Looks like the thread starter is a Unity Advocate.. I think it's loosing sales since Unreal4 went Open Source.. check out Leadwerks (also on Steam). It's a bit of a sleeping giant. I have seen the island demo, sorry but it's horrible. How many commercial games are we talking about? Yeah.. it won't quite cut it. Fastlibs demo are way better, and it's DX7 Sleeping giant? try GoDot.. now that's a sleeping giant Lua.. check Cross Platform.. check Open Source, Permissive MIT.. check Auto Packaging.. check ..ready to rise up. I'm just seeing what it is. No offense to the makers of Leadwerks. |
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| Unity works because of the Indie version. When someone succeeds with the indie version and can shell out dough to buy the Pro, then it counts and counts and counts.. It's all about business. I don't see anything special with Unity or any other 3D Engines, Free or Commerical. They're all the same. The engine with the best shaders and cutting edge techniques works and come out on top. It attracts the artist and developers to build their dream game. that's it. At least Epic is a company pioneer on opening up their latest tech code to the public, then there's that Crybaby.. er CryTek that folllowed with the easy licensing now.. |
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| ..and forget about id tech 5 and Carmack, he's old news now. he saw Minecraft, gave up and left his company for Oculus |
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| Lua.. check Cross Platform.. check Open Source, Permissive MIT.. check Auto Packaging.. check Huge filesized runtimes.. check Basic Runtime + user scripts instead of custom compiled stuff.. check Ignoring that approach gamemaker used a decade (or more?) ago, godot has potential, it just needs a better gui (non custom stuff) and something like a compiler or more modular runtime (injection?). @engines / tools the one with the most comprehensive and easy to follow tutorials will fetch some beginners here and there. If the tool is having asset stores it attracts the people creating economy around a tool (especially if they can easily convert their existing work to the new one - or just reuse it). Then you need enough luck that these artist have 1-2 friends to use the tool for their indies. With enough buzz you might end up getting tried by bigger teams (more likely if you know people from the decision level so they know: we get help if they need it). But it seems todays "indie games" (not the ones with really higher than average budget) get back to "retro style" - and I do not talk about retro in the charming way of 16Bit-Consoles but 8Bit or less. If that is something which sells well... then BlitzMax just needs a revival on other platforms to make it "buzzworthy" again. bye Ron |
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| Huge filesized runtimes.. check Basic Runtime + user scripts instead of custom compiled stuff.. check lol Derron did I say sleeping giant? or perfect? yeah it was sleeping giant. obviously! You're just bringing out the bad stuff even if it is petty just for argument sake. so failed again. I'm not siding with GoDot or any other engine, im just seeing there potential. And hey guess what?? it's open source so someone can modify and get those 2 cons you pointed out and make it better. For an engine so new to the public, they have grown faster to an extent of being competitive, even though they're just giving it away for free.. for now Plus more.. Lightmapping support ..check Shaders .. check hell yeah Again.. I said sleeping giant.. NOT perfect. But it seems todays "indie games" (not the ones with really higher than average budget) get back to "retro style" - and I do not talk about retro in the charming way of 16Bit-Consoles but 8Bit or less. pff yeah right.. with the boom of Angry birds and clones with simple graphics and physics, everybody is jumping in the bandwagon now... "Hey, 2D sells again.. whats next.. ummm... ding Retro!" spare me, please... Why am I still here using old tech? why not? I like to try new things. by new I mean I just found out. Why are you still here? yeah, we got all the reasons in the world.. You can all find me weird but I'm just being 100% honest here. I just call it when I see it, and it's just my opinion. |
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| With respect to not being able to move your projects to another PC - I've moved my B3D projects from my main PC to a laptop... and it still compiles and works - maybe you need to be more specific about the problem you are experiencing with Blitz3D. [edit] just noticed the thread is just called Unity,apologies if you were having issues with that - never used it. |
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| You're just bringing out the bad stuff even if it is petty just for argument sake. so failed again. You can all find me weird but I'm just being 100% honest here. I just call it when I see it, and it's just my opinion. Uhm yes ... Seriously: Of course I bring up the bad side of something. I talked about GoDot in the other thread already. I blamed the big filesize there too - and as the basic concept is "runtime + config data" you will not change it by some small patches. Do not come up with the "it is open source everyone can help" argument: I am very into open source and taking part in discussions of open source software, providing inofficial or official patches and providing open source software on my own. Like stated: I think godot has potential, but in my opinion the "bad sides" are a big flaw they have to get rid of to become a more serious competitor (imho.. not everyones opinion!). I myself am not using GoDot as I do not use Unity either. Still not friend with the "click"-interface (even if they allow for more advanced usage). bye Ron |
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| Blitz3D may be worth sticking with if you've built a lot of existing 'tech' with it that can be used towards your latest game, however I wouldn't recommend it to a newbie for anything other than tinkering with. I will get slated for not being a fanboy, but it is outdated and IMO approaching end of life. |
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| @John, Some may construe me as a 'fanboy' of Blitz3D. I appreciate that everyone is entitled to an opinion, however Blitz3D is far from the end of its life. If anything,it is still more than capable of producing anything that an indepent developer may want to turn his hand to. Sure, it 'may' not be able to do whatever the latest DirectX thing is - however it is an immensely powerful coding language - and I do not believe that any other product has such a huge back catalogue of coding examples (on these forums) or such a helpful community. Blitz3D can be used for more than just 'game' development, as I believe I'm well on the way to proving with my program which has a tie-in to excercise in that real world place using GPS and heart rate data which can be imported from Garmin's Forerunner products.  IMO Blitz3D, has, if anything been given a new lease of life now that it is 'free' - my 5 pence ;) |
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| runtime + config data.. huh big deal Do not come up with the "it is open source everyone can help" argument: I am very into open source and taking part in discussions of open source software, providing inofficial or official patches and providing open source software on my own. Yeah knowing that and you're concern with big file size? what year are you still in? the year of the DOS? 80MB hard disk drives?? lol Try installing a unity game. it's the same thing, or even bigger. are you kidding me? ~20 MB for a small game. not that big. I tested this with GoDot. Now, if we're talking about 100 MB for a small game, then that's the time you can argue it's big. heh you will not change it by some small patches. you're just assuming that they won't change this, it's open source buddy. anything can happen and again NOT perfect.. sleeping giant. smh |
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| and i'm into opensource too and a contributor, so don't brag about it. it's nothing new hehe everybody is doing it nowadays. This community has been in the shelf with commercial cobwebs for many years now, it's time to shake it all off. I think Blitzmax is also fading now (might go opensource anytime) and they're moving into the direction of MonkeyX.. |
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I just tested a GoDot multiplayer tutorial few weeks ago, i still got all my projects here. it works straight. pretty convincing i should say.. and it's only 12mb single exe. what's there to be concerned about? heh Download here.. http://www.mediafire.com/download/63c63pvhf58ds05/Mplayer.zip |
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| @videz - nice work ;) This isn't really a threadjack with no screengrabs of Unity - it is a BRL forum after all - peace ;) |
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| Hey Blitzplotter. Yes, I know. but the title says its all. :-) and hey, it's a General Forum so I'm not against the discussion of Unity or any other game engines either. err... I think it's a debate who's the sleeping giant.. hmmm |
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| For desktop apps the filesize wont matter that hard...but check out the mobile and html output...there size does matter... But like said...this has been discussed in the godot thread already. No reason to start of flame war in this innocent thread. Peace pipe? Bye Ron |
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| Like Wings said - smoke the pipes of peace - erm, not the eminenet Wings that created the awesome Server/Client code for B3D that I'd some fun with, but the band. Didn't see the godot thread... I think. |
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| but check out the mobile and html output...there size does matter... opensource, they could change it. and the blackberry/html5 build is not 100% working. i get it. ..yeah I'm not into flame war Ron, just a healthy debate here. we've been through this before if you remember. and it's not just you, im just posting out my argument/opinions to the public here.. peace dude |
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| not the eminenet Wings that created the awesome Server/Client code for B3D that I'd some fun with, Yeah I really like blitz3d/b+ multiplayer capabilities. Pair that with the easiest language, you can build a 3d/2d online p2p prototype game in just a week. It's what keeps me here apparently. |
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| Thanks Blitzplotter btw.. i just followed a tutorial for that demo. they got good docs so yeah.. |
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| np Videz, I've coded in a number of languages over the years and I'd love to have the time and energy to invest in at least investigating Unity, but tbh I've kinda other priorities and I like getting outdoors more often these days. Sorry I didnae clock the first post entirely, but if you want to give Unity a go - charge on and let us know how you fare - good luck andhappy coding. |
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| I've coded in a number of languages over the years Ah ok good to know. Me too. but if you want to give Unity a go - charge on and let us know how you fare - good luck andhappy coding. Yeah.. nope. been there.. done that. I already tested Unity a year ago, in fact I got Pro. A friend gave his license to me. he was not satisfied either. Not for me, I'm more into opensource game engines with no strings attached. |
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| I'm more into opensource game engines with no strings attached. Feel free to help out regarding Bruceys "NG"-project: https://github.com/bmx-ng (hint: Brucey likes to have issues he could tackle :p) @html5-build The problematic part is: as long as they use runtimes, they will use a "having all" build. This leads to really big filesizes. Same for "libgdx" - even the compressed "js" output of "gwt" is 2MB - but there I think the main reason is the missing support of converting "oop" functionality ). We will see how small the html5/js output of bmx-ng gets (emscripten, yay!) when SDL etc are used. Regarding android builds things must be lighter in filesize except you are ignorant enough about people with <=512MB ram (will be still a bunch of people) and low included space. I understand that this wont have the highest priority for many people as long as it just "works" but there are thousands of people you will not reach with your app because their only connection to the internet is is "via mobile" and there... traffic is directly connected to costs. Also I think the "compiler thing" is the harder thing when doing cross-platform. Else it is "just" a matter of getting your engine (including the script interpreter) running on a platform. For android I did not note/remember what kind of permissions the resulting godot binary requests - is a change possible there ? (because the code, to do all things the engine is capable of, is in the runtime and exists in every deployment). bye Ron |
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| Feel free to help out regarding Bruceys "NG"-project: https://github.com/bmx-ng (hint: Brucey likes to have issues he could tackle :p) yeah... emm except one thing. Blitzmax is still proprietary. not exactly opensource |
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| only "bcc[.exe]" is proprietary, rest of BlitzMax is OpenSource (or even Public Domain). bmx-ng contains "bcc-ng", a open source replacement of "bcc[.exe]" trying to stay compatible to the vanilla blitz compiler. bye Ron |
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| yeah... emm except one thing. Blitzmax is still proprietary. All the modules that ship with BlitzMax are now open source (zlib/libpng). The IDE is open source. The only thing that isn't, is the "bcc" binary that generates ASM from the .bmx source. BMX-NG is a project to create an open-source version (zlib/libpng) of bcc in order to support more platforms (like Raspberry Pi and Android) and architectures (like 64-bit and ARM). It is built on top of a BlitzMax port of Monkey's open source compiler :-) |
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| Ok interesting guys. So you mean this is a complete stable open source of Blitzmax? If this is the case then, what's the point of this product page?.. http://www.blitzbasic.com/Products/blitzmax.php It's kind of conflict of interest, don't you think? nice project btw, will check this out.. |
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| btw, where is the Blitzmax IDE opensource at? |
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| I'm still a bit fuzzy on the whole thing, too. I understand that BMX-NG supports platforms that vanilla Blitzmax does not. But I can't help but wonder if it would be legal to produce 32-bit Windows programs. Vanilla BMX is still available, after all. I have a pretty spiffy game engine (among other things) in development, but it's driven entirely by LuaJIT. It's fast, but it would be nice to have a companion language (BMX being a natural choice) that doesn't rely on a byte-code interpreter. Brucey, what parts of BlitzMax actually need ASM? |
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| Vanilla bcc compiles bmx code to asm... Which then is compiled to "exe" with fasm (flat Assembler). Ng translates bmx to c...and then compiles c with gcc/mingw to "exe". Legal: bcc ng implements language details...these are not copyrightable. So it is only a moral discussion. Decision was to do it. All other needed parts of BlitzMax (modules) are open to reuse ...like brucey posted already. Samples and handwritten documents have their own / proprietary licence. Other tools vanilla uses (ar.exe ld.exe fasm.exe) have their own licence and are not done bei blitz research. IDE: skidracers maxIDE is open source...brucey forked it to add "support" of the other platforms in the app menu. You could even fork "indevIDE" and add other targets there too...hmm maybe i should mail the author to do it on his own. "Totally stable": did someone claim this? Of course it is a project below v1.0. Many things just work but the more complex (read: large code size) a product gets...the higher the chances if using a odd or uncommon code construct which then might lead to somehing unhandled in the compiler...and therefor to a compiler error message. These are then things you can file bug reports for (read: the thing you can help even without knowledge of the compiler source code). Bye Ron |
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| For my part I tried a bit of everything I've been through unity, UDK, Torque CryEngine and always return to Blitz3D is because whenever I face the API that is in English I is a headache, but lately I think I found something very revealing in PureBasic, he is very comfortable about programming in Blitz3D and what I love about PureBasic is that it has all gone in one package. I think if dedeamos learn Unity, if we're really good at what we do have more output commercially, regardless of make a game or part of a small development team is made, on the other hand I think Blitz3D and similar environments are to pass the time, at least that's what I think, because I always find something that stops me because I do not understand many things. |
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| Derron - Oh, I was under the impression some was c and some was asm. I guess that helps to clarify. |
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| it's driven entirely by LuaJIT. It's fast, but it would be nice to have a companion language (BMX being a natural choice) that doesn't rely on a byte-code interpreter. ..? LuaJIT is a native code compiler, not an interpreter (well, there is a supplemental interpreter that it uses as fallback). It's also one of the best native-code compilers out there, faster than almost anything other than hand-written C code. It definitely produces faster code than Mark's Max compiler, and probably beats Brucey's too (I'm guessing the NG compiler mainly lags behind on GC, if it's still using Boehm). |
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| Not sure where you're getting that from - it generates byte-code and then interprets that on the target platform (VM-style). It doesn't generate target-specific machine code. It is most definitely not faster than straight BMX. All of the LuaJIT speed comparisons on the site are against other VMs. EDIT: I guess there is a native .o output option - not sure how I could use that. To be clear, the engine is written entirely in BMX and I'm using the LuaJIT module to add scripting features. I may end up making a dll for use with other languages. |
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| Second to last FAQ entry states this outright: http://luajit.org/faq.html A JIT compiler is by definition taken to mean native code, since compiling to bytecode is done by basically every interpreter. LuaJIT uses bytecode to power a driver-interpreter which then generates native code for hotspots after tracing execution. It only relies on the interpreter on iOS and other platforms where dynamic code generation isn't allowed. Whether it's faster than Max presumably depends on exactly what you try to do, but my (trivial) experiments have indicated that it can hit up to ten times Max's performance for some hot loops (basically this is down to Max not bothering with optimisation: even simple improvements like unrolling loops can have a huge impact against that). It can certainly match its average. Here's a different (admittedly artificial) benchmark where LuaJIT is compared against GCC directly: http://cluecc.sourceforge.net/ |
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| Of course it has to be native eventually. In the meantime, it's byte-code (optionally retaining source) and it's kept that way until it runs. There may indeed be some way of making it work directly with my engine (side-by-side native), but that would probably mean abandoning BMX altogether and going with something like C. |
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| Thanks for all of the input about Unity 3D. I tried Unity 3D for a few weeks and yes, I learned how it works and all, but you know what? I found that I tend to enjoy lthe programming concept behind Blitz 3D and it seems like I get running more quickly in Blitz 3D somehow. Besides, I also enjoy web programming and in the thread above, I discovered the Oskit that makes it so that I could more easily upload my Blitz 3D games to the web; something that has been my goal. Man, that Oskit seems like an important tool. So thus, I'm now back using Blitz 3D again (after a full circle of learning a lot of stuff). I still have to learn everything with it because 3D game making is still new to me, but I'll just learn as I go Thus, thanks for the input and insight. I read everything here and I thank everybody for the information, input and alternative views. |
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| In regard to Unity, the new version of the Unit 5 STILL it to support Windows XP, my QUESTION IS A Dębe Having this? WHILE ALL engines left a UN Side Windows XP, They Giving continue to support Windows XP and DirectX9 |
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| Sorry, I have no idea what you just said. |
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| random words? |
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