Printers, and ink.

Community Forums/General Help/Printers, and ink.

GfK(Posted 2013) [#1]
Hello.

Been doing quite a bit of printing lately and looking into ways of reducing the cost. I bought some ink and refillable cartridges, which work OK mostly, but the quality is far from perfect. The refillable (clear) cartridges and ink cost me barely more than one set of genuine cartridges, and there's enough ink to fill them all six times over. So figured it was worth a shot.

The refillable ones come with their own chip attached. Would it help any to remove this chip and replace it with ones taken from genuine HP cartridges? Or is it ultimately just a bit of metal to connect terminals together inside the printer?

Anyhoo...

I really need the quality back. My current printer is an HP Photosmart 5510. I was looking into the possibility of a laser printer - even a mono one as I don't really need to print anything in color.

Printer ink is so bloody extortionate, there has to be away of avoiding being ripped off for printer consumables, without sacrificing quality.


Ginger Tea(Posted 2013) [#2]
Probably best avoiding colour these days, most seem to have a "I will not print from the black cartridge because I have run out of cyan" when all you are printing is black.


Floyd(Posted 2013) [#3]
I was looking into the possibility of a laser printer - even a mono one as I don't really need to print anything in color.

That's exactly what happened to me. I found a laser printer for less than the cost of the ink cartridges I originally wanted: $40 for a refurbished Samsung.


GfK(Posted 2013) [#4]
For my current printer, a genuine HP 364XL cart can be had for around £17, giving ~550 pages (3.1p/page). By comparison, a toner cartridge for an HP LaserJet Pro M1217 (CE285A) giving ~1600 pages, costs around £55 (3.4p/page).

Are 'compatible' toners any more forgiving than compatible inkjet cartridges? Because in my experience the compatible stuff is invariably crap for inkjets.


dawlane(Posted 2013) [#5]
My current printer is an Epson Aculaser CX11NF. Though the toners are a fortune for originals. You can get around 4000 pages out of the high capacity cartridges they work out at (2.7p a page for originals). I have seen these much cheap for recycled cartridges from http://www.cartridgesave.co.uk

The last printer I used was a Epson Stylus Photo RX600 and I was using a Continuous Ink System with it as it worked out cheaper than using any cartridges original or otherwise. There was a few issue with it like where to put the reservoirs and filling it without getting ink everywhere. In the end it let me down as one of the print heads started to leak because of the wear and tear.


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#6]
he refillable ones come with their own chip attached. Would it help any to remove this chip and replace it with ones taken from genuine HP cartridges?


No, since the chip also keeps track of the amount you print, and eventually "knows" that the cartridge is supposed to be empty and refuse to print more. (That's also why the refilling doesn't always work)

Personally I gave up on inkjets a long time ago: Laserjets are much cheaper per print, and more importantly, have a much longer lifespan in situations where you DON'T print for an extended time as well.
If you don't use an inkjet for a month, there's a real chance that ink drops at the end of the nozzle will clog and either make fore really messy prints, or refuse to print altogether.
A laserprinter doesn't have that problem and will happily continue to print after long breaks.

Toner cartridges are more expensive than ink cartridges, but they last a LOT longer as well.

another advantage is that laser printer tend to have higher build standards, and the device itself doesn't die as quickly on you. (At the office we still have a few laserjet 4's happily trucking along, 19 years after they were put into service)

Plus laser's are a lot cheaper than they used to be as well: You can find a lot of the entry level models in the $85-$100 range.

(I haven't made the change to a color laserjet yet, since the 4 toner cartridges that are necessary for thjose are a bit prohibitively expensive... I'm using a Brother 7440n multifunction laser printer myself: monochrome printer, color scanner with automatic document feeder, fax, and ethernet connectivity (print, scan and fax from/to multiple computers, or even scan to email/FTP)

For my current printer, a genuine HP 364XL cart can be had for around £17, giving ~550 pages (3.1p/page). By comparison, a toner cartridge for an HP LaserJet Pro M1217 (CE285A) giving ~1600 pages, costs around £55 (3.4p/page).


Of course, the difference between the two is that the laserjet will realistically GIVE you those 1600 pages, while a clogged/dried out nozzle on the desktop can make the inkjet stop working after if you happen to not use your printer over the summer. Having to throw out a clogged cartridge that still has 400 pages worth of ink left in its tank also means that know that 3.1/p page became ~10p/page instead.
On the laser side, toner doesn't go "bad"


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#7]
Are 'compatible' toners any more forgiving than compatible inkjet cartridges? Because in my experience the compatible stuff is invariably crap for inkjets.


Quality varies, and depends on the type of cartridge.

If it's a true 'compatbile' toner then the quality tends to be pretty much identical, with the possible exception that some of the no-name brands may tend to overstate the amount of toner in the tank so the total number of prints may be a little lower than the advertised amount.

I've purchased newegg's 'rosewill' cartridges for my brother printer in the past. No difference that I can see compared to the official brother cartridges, except they were half the price.


Now, keep in mind that in addition to the compatible cartridges, you can also buy cheap remanufactured / recycled cartridges.

Some of the laser printers have the drum as part of the cartridge, while others have it as a seperate component. (Just like with inkjets, some brands have the printing heads as part of the cartridge, and others have them as a seperate component)

Anyway -- Depending on the model, the drum typically lasts you for ~10-15,000 prints. HP printers have the drum built into the toner. If you buy a refilled cartridge, you typically still have the original drum and 2-3 refills later the drum starts to wear out leading to substandard print quality (e.g. vertical lines, fuzzyness)
That means that buying a refilled cartridge is the luck of the draw: First or second refill they are pretty much indistinguishable from the original cartridges, but if you happen to get one that has had had more re-fill trips in the past then the quality may be substandard.

some of the refill/remanufacturerd companies also have an in-between option available, where you buy a refilled cartridge *with a new drum*. Cheaper than an original cartridge, more expensive than one with just new toner refill, but more predictable quality than the latter.


GfK(Posted 2013) [#8]
Useful info, thanks.

Had a look in Currys PC World just now (was already in there for something else), and they only had two laser printers in - two ruddy great massive A3 printers. Decent price (under £150 each), but I don't imagine ever needing anything that big, aside from not really having the desk space. Might plump for an A4 one.

What's the Brother brand like?


GfK(Posted 2013) [#9]
After much research, I decided against Brother. A lot of reviews suggest that printed output isn't too great (for the price bracket I was looking at).

I've opted for a Samsung SCX-4729FW. Does everything I want and among the cheapest to run that I could find (which is the whole purpose of going this route).


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#10]
FWIW: I haven't heard any complaints about the few Samsung's I've come across.


GfK(Posted 2013) [#11]
Got my printer today. Got it from Printerland.co.uk who I highly recommend.

The print quality is first rate - you think inkjets are good quality until you see output from a laser printer, and with running costs of less than 2p/page you really can't go wrong. Plus it can be used via USB cable and/or a wireless network printer, so there's no need to have it sat on the end of your desk (even though mine is).

If there was to be a downside, it's that the printer isn't color (but I knew that when I bought it - I very rarely print color anyway). It scans in color, though, and it sends faxes if you know anybody else who still has a fax machine.

I paid £149 for mine. I almost bought the same printer from my usual haunt - CCLOnline, but their best price was £175.

It "warms up" (is that the right term?) really quickly, and prints/photocopies quickly too.

10/10 - if you can afford spending £150 on a printer, there is no reason whatsoever to go for inkjets any more.


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#12]
Exactly, came to the same conclusion years ago. I'm on my second printer in 15 years now, the inkjet barely lasted 2 years with much crappier print quality.


GfK(Posted 2013) [#13]
I'm on my 5th printer in 8 years. The first four were inkjets. If I'd bought a laser printer right at the start, I would have saved money.


fox95871(Posted 2013) [#14]
I recommend the Brother HL-2280DW. Trust me, I'm picky. You'll get... waterproof black and white copies and prints, color scans, an extremely easy to use interface, and it looks cool in your room, as many of them seem to be intentionally ugly. I also have some tips for you. I know you said you're not an artist, but even so if you have a lot of old notes with maybe faint lines, use graph mode, brightness 4 of 5. You'll get every last detail, it's awesome. This model is also quite inexpensive. Yes you'll save money on toner, but everyone always forgets, toner also makes for waterproof prints! It's powdered wax that actually gets melted into the paper fibers. Also, always turn off the main switch when you're done, or you'll be wondering why the lights keep dimming all night and your power bill's high. Oh, and they told me to only use lazer paper. I don't know why. Best of luck, and again trust me, you won't regret this purchase. There's no faster or better way to make a hard copy of all your precious work.


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#15]
Oh, and they told me to only use lazer paper. I don't know why


Cheap generic copier paper works just fine as well -- after all, your average copy machine uses the same kind of toner and technology that your laser printer does.

The one thing that does NOT work OK with laserjets is glossy inkjet photo paper. The toner won't actually melt into that paper, which means that you end up with a very thin plastic-looking film with your image laying on top of the paper that falls right off and breaks apart.
If you NEED to print glossy photos (probably not, with a black-and-white unit) make sure to get laser photo paper instead.


GfK(Posted 2013) [#16]
The specs for my printer say that any paper over something like 60gsm is fine. But I don't like cheap, thin paper anyway. I think the lowest I've got right now is 80gsm but I much prefer 130+ for anything that needs an extra quality feel to it.

I have printed photos in the past, but I much prefer to get them done professionally from the likes of Photobox, Snapfish etc.