Finally going to upgrade from XP

Community Forums/General Help/Finally going to upgrade from XP

RifRaf(Posted 2013) [#1]
But now im confused.. I dont need 64 bit version of windows 7, so I know i can look for 32bit, or both together.

But what the heck version am I looking for.. theres Retail and then theres stuff like this
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Operating-Systems-/11226/i.html?_sop=15&_from=R40&_nkw=windows+7+professional+32+bit&LH_BIN=1

I want to be able to install (fully not upgrade) Win7 32bit anytime I want without an issue.. thats pretty much all I need. If I can do it on more than on pc in my home great, but Im reading around that its pretty much impossible with W7. Although there are Family packs on ebay too that are now discontinued, and the pics of the DVDs for them read "upgrade".

Any advice for my ebay browsing ? or perhaps you have a better retail shop link with amazing prices.. was hoping to spend under 100 USD


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#2]
Why cant MS keep it simple for idiots like me who cant simply point at the most expensive version and take it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation

It allows them to squeeze the maximum amount of cash from their customer base, depending on their needs.


Anyhoo --

The "reinstall disc" only works if you already have a working OEM serial number bundled with your computer -- won't work for you.

That's the disc that would come bundled with a PC when you buy it. Useless without the key, and may be locked to the BIOS of the PC it came with. (e.g. an HP reinstall disc may 'magically' work without a serial number on particular HP motherboards that would have come with the same version of windows installed, but refuse to activate on other hardware without a working key)

Basically, there is several different version, each with different releases:

- Retail. "full", boxed copy. Will install on a PC, and the license allows you to UNINSTALL & reinstall on another PC if you upgrade down the road.
- OEM. bundled with hardware, tied to the motherboard that it was first installed on. Can't move to your next PC. (technically it can, but you'd violate the MS EULA)
- Upgrade. Requires you to have another OS (XP, Vista) installed on the PC already, which will then be replaced by your Win7. Note that using the upgrade -invalidates- the old OS license, so you can't re-use your old XP/vista license on another PC or virtual machine (Again -- technically you can, but you'd violate the MS EULA)

On top of that there's the distinction between Starter, Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate and Enterprise versions of all of the above.

Starter is completely stripped down. Can't use multiple logins, can't customize (can't even set a desktop background image) (used to?) also limit the # of programs that can run simultaneously. Undesirable.

- Starter is mostly found in 'developing nations', or on low-end netbooks in the US.

- home premium is the most common version installed on your typical PC you buy at a big-box store. Comes with some multi-media tools. Has everything a typical home user cares about. 64 bit version is limited to 16GB RAM.

- Professional is aimed at corporations, and supports joining corporate active directory domains, and some remote management stuff. does not include the multi-media stuff, although you can download those from MS for free. 64bit version supports up to 192GB RAM.

- Ultimate is essentially the same as professional, plus the multimedia tools from home Premium lumped in.

- Enterprise is pretty much identical to ultimate, except it's only offered under corporate contracts and includes a virtualization license, can't buy this one in a store, only through a MS enterprise agreement.


with the OEM version you EITHER get the 32 or 64 bit disc, although the same serial should work with either version if you borrow the other disc down the road. (Of course, you can only have one active installation with any serial number) IIRC All others come with both 32-bit and 64-bit discs, and you can pick which version you install. Unless you have old software or hardware that won't work with a 64-bit OS, that's probably the recommended version now. the vast majority of PC's you'd buy in a store will have the 64-bit version preinstalled these days.

Note that the upgrade version will only install on your PC if a qualifying OS is already present -- e.g. you'd need to install XP first, and then the Windows 7 install disc will detect it, and allow you to blow it away to do a fresh install. without the older OS present first, you can't install win 7. If you currently have Vista you can do an actual upgrade it to Win7 and retain your existing settings/programs, as long as you stick with the same bit-ness (32-to-32 or 64-to-64).
You cannot upgrade XP to Windows 7 directly, although it will recognize it as a valid, legal upgrade path, it will NOT retain your old settings/programs in the process.

The OEM version will only allow a fresh install (wipe HDD, install from scratch), noupgrades.

The Retail version will allow either upgrades or fresh installs. Most flexible, but (of course) also the most expensive of the bunch.


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#3]
Any advice for my ebay browsing ?


Be very careful buying software on there, many are the useless 'reinstall discs' with won't do you any good, and there's a lot of of software up for sale that's either:
- Counterfit (cracked copy with keygen serial that will likely stop working in the near future when MS releases a genuine advantage update)
- Already in use (e.g. may not be able to activate with MS because it's already tied to one or more PC's)
- potentially invalidated (e.g. someone selling their old OS after upgrading to the latest, which technically invalidates their license. May work, may stop working in the future, who knows)

I'd recommend sticking with the normal retail channels: newegg.com, amazon.com, microsoft.com, etc.
Given that MS pretty much sets their pricing in stone you'll find very little price differences between different stores, and places that significantly undercut those tend to be... fishy.


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#4]
Final thought: Keep in mind that windows 8 is out already as well. If you install the (free) classic shell program, windows 8 becomes very similar to windows 7.

With windows 8, they got rid of the "home premium" name, that one is just sold as "windows 8". The Professional version is "Windows 8 Pro".
Everything else mentioned above still applies.


RifRaf(Posted 2013) [#5]
what about this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116983

would I technically be able to get my two machines up and running W7 with that ?
Edit.. if that will do the trick.. even just "technically" i think ill grab it as its the most affordable version they have


Use of this OEM System Builder Channel software is subject to the terms of the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. This software is intended for pre-installation on a new personal computer for resale. This OEM System Builder Channel software requires the assembler to provide end user support for the Windows software and cannot be transferred to another computer once it is installed. To acquire Windows software with support provided by Microsoft please see our full package "Retail" product offerings.



xlsior(Posted 2013) [#6]
would I technically be able to get my two machines up and running W7 with that ?


If you buy two copies -- sure.

You can't run one single copy on two machines -- even if you manage to activate both, microsoft "genuine advantage" will deactivate one or both of them after a while when it catches on you're running more than one installation with the same key. (Windows does phone home, after all)


Canardian(Posted 2013) [#7]
32 bit Win7 can only handle 2GB RAM for data, and that's not enough for modern apps. And RAM is dirt cheap, you get 8GB for 50€ from Kingston with lifetime warranty.


RifRaf(Posted 2013) [#8]
I guess I thought the 2gb limit was per process, and most games use more than one process or core instruction set, or something like that.

And, what about the "Windows 7 for Refurbished PCs".. I hear its got a better license agreement, but cannot find details.

Also, im in the usa. So if I find a retailer in the UK or Germany ect that has it at a discount.. but says its an english copy.. will I run into region license issues?

Edit:
I know youre thinking.. "get the retail and shut it" well im actually trying to do that but while my garage sale, poor boy hunting skills are active looking for a very rock bottom cheap and legitimate copy, im discovering these other varations, retailers and options that are of interest to me. For example if the "w7 refurbished pc" license will let me put it on both my PCs.. that would be fantastic and worth a penny more


Winni(Posted 2013) [#9]
Buy a Windows 8 Pro Upgrade DVD, they are still on the market for around 50 Euros. There's zero reason NOT to upgrade to Windows 8 at this time. If you don't like Modern UI, install ClassicShell or Start8 or some other tool that restores the old start menu. When you buy Windows 8 now, you will get the 8.1 upgrade for free.

If your computer has a 64-Bit CPU and at least 2 GB RAM, I would --NOT-- install a 32-Bit version of Windows anymore. The license key that you will buy works with both builds, and although OEM versions only come with one architecture DVD, it is --LEGAL-- to download the ISO for the other architecture from Microsoft's own servers and re-install the OS with your license key. But as it was already mentioned, of course, you can only use the key on one PC. (Unless you're downgrading the OS on a new PC from, let's say, Windows 8 Pro to Windows 7 Pro - then Microsoft allows you to use the same key twice. But in the case of Windows 8 you can ONLY downgrade legally from the Pro version to Windows 7 Pro. The license does not allow you to downgrade from Windows 8 to Windows 7 Home Edition, for example. Only the Windows 8 Pro editions come with downgrade rights.)

That being said, selling USED OEM licenses is fully legal in Germany and probably in several other European countries as well. An OEM version of Windows 7 Professional can be bought on eBay in Germany for around 27 Euros. (Most of those OEM versions come from recycled Dell machines, which doesn't matter at all - OEM licenses can legally be transferred under German laws.) That money will buy you the DVD and the COA license sticker; the DVD is of no importance, the license sticker is the thing that will make the license legal. As I've said: This is fully legal under GERMAN(!) laws. But when you're buying the OEM version on ebay.de, German laws apply. Full stop.

American laws are different, and, thank God, not applicable outside the US. While transferring (used) OEM licenses from one PC to another might be illegal in the US, German courts found Microsoft's license terms to be illegal.


RifRaf(Posted 2013) [#10]
I dont like win8 and will not willingly buy it :) I have it on a premade PC from dell we purchased a while ago for my daughter.


Hotshot2005(Posted 2013) [#11]
Win 8.1 might change your mind because it got start menu of if you want desktop or not...

Well Done MS as that should be What WIN 8 was!


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#12]
No matter what license you get ("refurbished PC" or not) NONE of them allow you to run it on more than one PC at a time. Each key is bound to a single instance. (With the exception of the corporate enterprise agreement keys, but even there MS will come a-knocking on their door if they take too long to 'correct' their installation counts)

Note: Just because OEM licenses can be transferred under German law, doesn't necessarily mean that you can legally install/activate such a copy from within the US, where there is no such provision.


RifRaf(Posted 2013) [#13]
I suppose my old rig will have to scoot along with xp a few years more then :)


GaryV(Posted 2013) [#14]
Win 8.1 might change your mind because it got start menu


No it doesn't. It has a start button that when you click on it, it takes you to the metro tiles.


Canardian(Posted 2013) [#15]
Win8 has some serious problems with hardware and stability. For example the clock can fall even 15 seconds behind during 5 minutes, and the -O3 optimizations crashes in MinGW. That's the reason why they banned Win8 from some global benchmarking site.

The only reason not to use XP today is if you have more than 4GB RAM. But since many new PCs come with 8-16GB, there is a real reason to upgrade to Win7 64-bit. But there is no reason to upgrade to Win8 or 8.1 for the next 30 years, because 64-bit is good enough for a long time.


RifRaf(Posted 2013) [#16]
The only reason not to use XP today is

well, also DX11 and beyond.


GaryV(Posted 2013) [#17]
well, also DX11 and beyond.


That is almost a reason for sticking with XP since very few seem to use DX11, and when they do, it is just Direct2D. Until XP starts to lose significant market-share, it will be supported by developers for several more years. Microsoft may be forced to extend security patches for XP.


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#18]
Win 8.1 might change your mind because it got start menu


No, it doesn't. It has a start BUTTON, which doesn't open a start menu but instead re-directs you to the metro screen that people were complaining about in the first place.

Penny Arcade summed it up perfectly:



GfK(Posted 2013) [#19]
I have Windows 8 on my laptop (because it came with it), but I don't especially like it. Particularly since the only Win8 App I actually use (AccuWeather) now refuses to work. The Metro thing (whatever they call it), is horrible. It has no place whatsoever on a desktop or notebook - both of which have much more useful HIDs (keyboard/mouse/touchpad) than having to paw at the screen to make stuff happen.

I use Windows 8 because it's there, I'll need to test stuff on it, so I just tolerate it. I Installed Classic Shell for it to get myself a Start button, and that makes it usable. Without that, Windows 8 would be pants. And only re-emphasises the good OS/bad OS cycle that Microshaft seem to be stuck in.

[edit] ...or to put it another way, get Windows 7. If you've 16GB of RAM or less, Home Premium will do. More than 16GB, you need Pro or Ultimate.


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#20]
[edit] ...or to put it another way, get Windows 7. If you've 16GB of RAM or less, Home Premium will do. More than 16GB, you need Pro or Ultimate.


One other difference:
the Windows 7 end-of-life date is January, 2020. No more critical updates after that.
Windows 8's end-of-life date is January, 2023.

(either way, you have to do SOMETHING -- Microsoft will drop XP like a hot potato on april 8, 2014. Expect an onslaught of compromised windows machines and botnets shortly after that, since there's still countless millions of XP installs out there right now)


MadJack(Posted 2013) [#21]
Just upgraded to a Win8 box. So much clutter to cut through. No start button. Obvious attempt to ring fence users into MS services. Confusing navigation.

Verdict: do not like.


Imperium(Posted 2013) [#22]
Using a PC the same way you use a phone. Great for dummies but terrible for professionals. -Windows 8

After the debacle of Vista, Microsoft had to get Windows 7 right. Windows 8 may be great for some people but I'll never have a use for it. Touchscreens really don't appeal to me and I absolutely hate greasy finger marks all over my monitor.

I suppose this is great for the companies who sell cleaning wipes. Conspiracy!


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#23]
Madjack: Download ClassicShell, free download, it makes Win8 look/feel much like win7.


Imperium(Posted 2013) [#24]
Or instead of applying a band aid to 8 just reformat and go with 7.


RifRaf(Posted 2013) [#25]
Well I am on the new rig now, downloading latest catalyst drivers.. I made a 120gig partition to install XP and will keep it there and put Win7 on the rest of the HDD when I can afford it.. At that time ill likely wipe the XP install and replace that partition with Linux OS.


fox95871(Posted 2013) [#26]
I love the desktop in that comic, it's like it's saying "Ahh, all is well again. The desktop, like the ground itself, has returned."

And did I just read Windows 8 point f_____ 1?! Hoard XP discs. Hoard them.

Touch... the screen? No.


*(Posted 2013) [#27]
They should do a windows add like marmite in the uk lol

personally i like win8 i can use it faster than vista/7 :)


Captain Wicker (crazy hillbilly)(Posted 2013) [#28]
Xlisor. U don't mind the tiled multi-touch metro thing. Makes nervous though. Lol


RemiD(Posted 2013) [#29]
I use to think and to say that working on a tablet with a touchscreen is not practical and not efficient but since June 2013, i use mostly my android tablet to write, to type code (with sentences), to draw and to paint.

The next step for me is to test to use Blitz3d on the Surface pro 2 (hello Windows 8), and to see how well and how fast i can work on it. I think that it will be more comfortable than working on a laptop...


fox95871(Posted 2013) [#30]
[delete]


xlsior(Posted 2013) [#31]
The next step for me is to test to use Blitz3d on the Surface pro 2 (hello Windows 8), and to see how well and how fast i can work on it.


IIRC it won't work at all -- just like B3D didn't work on the XP touchscreen tablets. (Might work with a USB mouse plugged in, but if all you have is touchscreen you can expect issues...)


RemiD(Posted 2013) [#32]

B3D didn't work on the XP touchscreen tablets



xlsior>>Thanks for the info. By "didn't work", you mean that it was not possible to interact the Blitz3d IDE or that it was not possible to interact with a program compiled with Blitz3d ?

If it is not possible to interact with the Blitz3d IDE, i guess that i will have to forget about Blitz3d and use something else.


*(Posted 2013) [#33]
Iirc it was something to do with usb mice but doing a google on blitz3d and surface might yeild something


Blitzplotter(Posted 2013) [#34]
likely wipe the XP install and replace that partition with Linux OS.


Linux is swish, theres so many distros to 'play/work' with at the mo it can be bewildering.

UI desginers - do one - lol

I'm compiling a front end for my B3D app within V6 at the mo on my XP machine, intersting thread on what OS to plump for. Ye old Microsoft has had a few of my sheckles over the years Win98SE, WinXP (x about 3) Win7 Home * 3.

Great Business model Msoft's got there. To be fair their OS ain't too shabby either, although I'm not sure about Win8.