Wireless network bridge. Maybe?
Community Forums/General Help/Wireless network bridge. Maybe?
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| Hello. I have a 4-channel CCTV system recording to DVR. The entire system thus far is wired. I'd like if possible, to connect the DVR to my network, but it only has an Ethernet port. Because of the distance/obstacles from DVR-to-router, a wired solution is not practical/possible. It would involve going through the wall of the house, outside, across the garden (somehow), through the garage wall, and into the DVR. So, it'd be handy if I could go wireless. The DVR is in range of the router. Because it's a DVR I won't be installing any drivers any time soon, which limits my options. Will a wireless network bridge allow me to do what I want to do? Or am I barking up the wrong lamp post? |
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| Can't honestly say, but there are Ethernet electrical sockets at maplins (and other places?) that if I understand correctly work towards or exactly how you want them to in atleast the distance/less hole knocking for cable options. how great the distance and how 'open' they leave you I can not say. |
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| Like Ginger Tea suggests, there are ethernet-over-powerline adapters: search for 'homeplug'. A pair of them runs you around $45 or so, at least the US version does. These are connectors with an ethernet and an AC power plug. Stick it in a wall outlet, stick the other one in a different outlet near your router, and it will automagically detect the two, typically with a 100mbit connection. Most of them support additional adapters as well, although they'd share the bandwidth among themselves. The catch: both wall outlets need to connect to the same breaker panel. Typically anywhere in a normal house works OK, but if you are in a larger commercial building or have seperate buildings with their own electric distribution panels then you may not be able to communicate. (Note: if you have a single 'power meter' in your house/garage, then there's a good chance they'll work for you) (the home plugs work by adding a data stream on top of the standard 50HZ/60Hz electrical waveform on the powerline itself) Now, if those are not an option, there is another one: a wireless 'gaming adapter'. Those are a little box that plug into an ethernet port on a device on one side, and use a wifi antenna to connect to your existing wireless network on the other side. first you plug it straight into your network, and it comes with a piece of software that you run on your PC which will detect and configure it for you through a web interface. You tell it your wireless SSID name and password, save, and you can then unplug it and connect it straight to your DVR or gaming system or whatever. The device thinks it uses normal ethernet, but instead it gets captured and streamed over wifi. (Of course, depending on the amount of data you're sending/receiving, wireless may not be fast enough for practical use) |
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| @xlsior: That thing you described is no "gaming adapter", it is was Gfk described in the second paragraph as "wireless network bridge" (aka Wifi-Bridge). And it is nothing more than a box with a wlan-adapter+chip in it and a cable to link it to an ethernet port. Problem with Wlan: it has a lower range, it is a shared medium, no guaranteed transfer capacity etc. My last try with powerline adapters was years ago (short after the introduction of the technique)... we received up to 1Mbit/s speed when connecting over a distance of 3 floors (but same "power panel"). Powerline adapters don't like things like Microwaves or other high-usage-elements. So if you like to turn on/off 1000W-elements (vacuum cleaner etc.) it may influence your transfer speed for that period too. That is why each room here is connected through normal Cat7-cables. If there is wlan needed, I placed APs. If the Wlan-Range is too high for a good signal, I placed another AP with the same SSID but a differing channel (so devices recognize them as "differing" so they switch as soon as the signal is getting way better - but this is a individual setup option on your devices). As you (Gfk) mentioned that the distance is way too difficult to change or to long ... you will have to stay with: Powerline or Wlan. If you have 2 powerline cables between your buildings and one is unused... You can give a try if the isolation is good enough for twisted pair networking over it... but in that case: make absolutely sure nobody will plug "power" on that line :D. (not serious:) If everything fails: buy a second DVR,and if you want to view things from DVR A, you plugin DVR B and take DVR A to your home for pluggin it into the TV device you want. Ahh...and if you want to stuck with wlan: Think of directional antennas. We replaced that powerline-connection with 2 directional antenna-using APs (configured as Bridge) and received nearly full speed (wlan maximum was 54mbit there, which meant 3.7-4.0MB/s after removal of wlan overhead, newer techniques will achieve some MB more). Such directional antennas cost roughly ~10€, which should be less than 15$ as there are surely more offers in the US for such cheap things). The APs you then have to buy must be able to use the Bridging mode and must have replaceable antennas (you can turn them like a screw and get a standard-connector for such antennas). You could save one AP if your Wifi-Lan-Adapter has the option to replace the antenna. Antenna cable can be up to X metres (you have to google) long, each metre takes away some "power" from the sending signal strength. Depending on the length and loss of power, you can buy a more powerful antenna. I don't know if your country limits the maximum signal strength, here in Germany we have limits we are not allowed to ignore (else we get into contact with some federals :D). bye Ron |
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| That thing you described is no "gaming adapter", it is was Gfk described in the second paragraph as "wireless network bridge" (aka Wifi-Bridge). FWIW, quite a few of them do market themselves as gaming adapter, e.g: - TRENDnet TEW-647GA Wireless N Gaming Adapter - Cisco-Linksys WGA54G Wireless-G Gaming Adapter My last try with powerline adapters was years ago (short after the introduction of the technique)... we received up to 1Mbit/s speed when connecting over a distance of 3 floors (but same "power panel"). Powerline adapters don't like things like Microwaves or other high-usage-elements. So if you like to turn on/off 1000W-elements (vacuum cleaner etc.) it may influence your transfer speed for that period too. Of course your mileage may vary -- the limited testing I've done with them myself did benchmark at a solid 100mbit, but that was in a normal office environment that wasn't using any high-wattage devices like microwave, vacuum cleaner, etc. They actually made improvements to the standard over the past few years too, now you can find 100mbit, 200mbit and even 500mbit versions. (Some of the 500mbit versions are deceptively marketed as 'gigabit', it seems) Of course actual speed will scale down on bad/noisy connections. If everything else fails, string ethernet along the fence line. ;-) |
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| Thought about and dismissed powerline adapters because, as far as I can tell, all adapters need to be on the same ringmain. My garage is isolated in that respect, with power and lighting on the same circuit. |
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| Thought about and dismissed powerline adapters because, as far as I can tell, all adapters need to be on the same ringmain. Never heard about that before, but apparently a ring circuit is primarily a UK wiring thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit I guess it could introduce additional limitations. In the US, the home plugs can pretty much connect any two wall outlets in your house. |
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| Well, I'm in the UK, so it could well be just a UK thing. My house has (without going for a look) about ten circuits. Certain high-power items such as electric shower units have to be on their own circuit. The law in the UK on this is very, very strict now. You're not even allowed to install extra wall outlets unless you're a qualified electrician (even though it's as easy as wiring a plug). I guess too many people were killing themselves through not knowing what they were doing. But back on topic, it's kind of logical that you can't use powerline adapters when there is no physical connection (outside of the consumer unit) between two outlets. |
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| I had not read up on those wall adapters, but it was the only thing I could think of short of a ruddy long cable, but yeah an out building would be on a different circuit to the main house. Other than having 2 DVR's laptop moved to the shed for transfer? I would like more power points in my room, just have 2 with 4 and 6 adapters on each, guy in the smallest bedroom has a daisy chain and powers a fridge off one :O ... it's not hard to rip out the single plug and install a double in its place, but sods law says he would flick the electric breaker back on with the electrician wiring it up cos he's woken up drunk and cant watch Jeremy Kyle. But my post from early this year proves that wiring a plug is harder than it seems and what scared me was the amount of times it could have not been earthed and used. |
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| Well, I'm in the UK, so it could well be just a UK thing. My house has (without going for a look) about ten circuits. Certain high-power items such as electric shower units have to be on their own circuit. The law in the UK on this is very, very strict now. You're not even allowed to install extra wall outlets unless you're a qualified electrician (even though it's as easy as wiring a plug). I guess too many people were killing themselves through not knowing what they were doing. But back on topic, it's kind of logical that you can't use powerline adapters when there is no physical connection (outside of the consumer unit) between two outlets. Except you -can- use them on different circuits, as long as those circuits connect together in the same distribution panel. My own house has at least a dozen different circuits each with their own breakers, but you can still communicate across those (as long as no breakers are flipped of course). (Supposedly in some situations the powerline adapter signals may even be perceptible in the neighboring houses, although that's not really a problem since the transceivers are paired together and encrypt their communications) Now, the UK architecture is different in that they are apparently set up in a ring fasion and power enters the circuit from both directions at the same time (which allows for thinner wiring since half your outlets get power from a different 'feed' even though they're ion the same line), and I guess that could very well interfere with the powerline's ability to carry its signal back to the distribution panel. |
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| I support your "guess" @ xlsior. Different circuits will not avoid connection of two powerline adapters. For West-European countries it is normal to have different circuits so that high consuming things like oven, fridge, cleaners... wont cut off the power for other rooms. Lights are often run over "one connection", or multiple rooms share one line (you recognize it if you run high voltage lamps without transformator and one bulb goes out of business ... check what rooms have power afterwards). We checked powerlines that day (so years ago...) - they even connected different households as they at some point were connected to the same line (after the "power consume counter") ... Normally it should be not that possible but the walls are not high enough for some bytes to pass :D. Wall outlets should be installable. What needs "checked by"-signs from qualified ones in Germany is if you build a house + doing all the electrical things yourself (there the QS-person will come and check if all cables are correctly assembled/connected to the panel - as the panel will "secure" things coming afterwards). Think UK will not differ that much concerning such things compared to Germany. I do not know the consumer laws in the UK, but just order a pair, try if they connect and if not: send them back (ohhh how fraudulent and badboy-behaving vs the shopowner...). Or take the wlan-directional-antenna-approach (not that expensive... dlink router with bridge ability for 15€, antenna for 10€ and that if needed twice times). bye Ron |
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| Something else for you to consider Gfk. You may legally require a licence if you install wireless CCTV systems even on private property. To be safe check with the Security Industry Authority before making any decisions. I've provided a link below... Security Industry Authority |
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| The cameras aren't wireless. They're analog cameras wired into a DVR. Only the connection between the DVR and router would [ideally] be wireless, and there's no legislation in place which prevents me from doing that. |
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| Bought some Powerline adapters today, with much apprehension. I wasn't expecting miracles, and fully expected to be taking them back tomorrow. I just got off the phone to the local vicar to arrange an exorcism. Because for reasons I can only attribute to some sort of witchcraft, they actually work extremely well. I don't know how, or why, and they shouldn't work, but they do. I'm off to flick some holy water about the place. |
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| Heh, I guess there must be a mains wire between the garage and house somewhere. I've got a pair of powerline adapters, myself. Damn useful bit of kit, they are. |
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| I just got off the phone to the local vicar to arrange an exorcism. Because for reasons I can only attribute to some sort of witchcraft, they actually work extremely well. I don't know how, or why, and they shouldn't work, but they do. I was pleasantly surprised myself as well when I first used them -- MUCH more convenient that having to run ethernet across the house, and allows you to create drops in otherwise inconvenient places. Note that most of them support additional adapters as well, so if you have a need to add outlets elsewhere in the house you can... Although for best compatibility you should probably stick with the same make/model in that case. |
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