Medieval Building 01
Community Forums/Graphic Chat/Medieval Building 01
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| Alrighty, no longer available due to unpopular demand. Image reposted if you're curious.  and  http://www.togamario.com/samus06/House02.zip |
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| Not bad, not bad at all. However, you'll probably have to generate a number of different, yet associated, buildings to generate sales. Check my sigs for current building packs - off you go then. |
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| Point noted, but I'll still offer them as singles, in case someone doesn't want to pay over $100 for the whole shibang. Thanks. Edit: I think I'll post all progress on these here, so I don't flood the forums with single-model threads. More soon to come. |
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| Edit. |
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| Look, I'm tired of buildings, Yeah! I want a villager pack. Now get modelling. :) P.S Models look good. |
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| I think its expensive...one building is 10$ and complete game goes for 19$ up to 30$..and difference is that same building can be used by anyone, so game content itself will not be 'origin' at all.. |
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| @Amon - I hear that suggestion often enough to think it may be worth the gobs of time it would take to get such a pack out. @Naughty Alien - You should see the price if I have to do it for exclusive licensing ;) It's not supposed to hold originality, it's mostly for prototyping, but people would have the right to use it commercially. Half the point is that at least you won't have a screenshot that looks like 75% of the other RC users. Sales on these items are never great enough to think that even 2% of the community is using them, anyhow. |
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| Sry but i wouldn't pay 10$ for that. That is crazy. And i think i'm not the only one here, you can get better buildings 4free. IMurDOOM |
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| Blue tiles? Your wood beams aren't thick enough, there aren't enough uprights for that size of building, and there are no angled cross pieces providing stress-linkage across the uprights. I suggest you do some research first. |
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| There's no way that I'd pay 10$ for this, sorry. It's far too boxy and lacking in character. |
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| I'm no modeller so feel free to ignore my comments ;) I have to be honest and say I would never pay $10 for those - there is nothing special or standout-ish about them. You mention that they are mainly for prototyping which suggests to me that you know the quality isn't great. Obviously I wasn't around in the medeival times but I'm pretty sure no-one would have had a blue or red roof. It kinda looks out of place. That said, what can you expect for $10 :) Stevie |
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| @ImurDoom - That may be so, but I haven't seen any free ones that look better. Care to point me to some so that I can examine? @John Blackledge - Yes, blue tiles, which are easily changed to any (non-saturated) color. My research revealed that the only buildings available for research are sketches, a handfull of pictures (not all cross-beamed) and one model set made that costs $250 for 15 buildings. It has a lot of cross-beams, maybe that's where you got the idea. @JustLuke - Possibly the most valid complaint in all of these. True enough, it isn't a real high-key building. @Stevie G - Again, not a high key building. Then, if it was particularly unique, how many could you put in a row or throughout a town an expect to hide the fact that it's the same building? I mention that's it's mainly for prototyping to suggest that it's not a total solution to everyone's game. My red / blue shingles came from the WoW style bucket, but since my models apparently lacks any good qualities, that wouldn't help it at all. |
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| Tyler Hold your horses there partner! i thought your models where quite nice, nice clean textures. There are a lot of models like the ones you where selling and if anyone wanted that type of building they would prob go for these http://www.arteria-gaming.com/fanthemepack.html maybe if you try making some other stuff people would be interested, because the standard of your models are good. Pete |
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| Thanks Pete, Just got discouraged ;) I will make a few adjustments to these before reoffering them. Obviously $37 is pretty cheap for a pack of buidings, but I think most people will find that the quality (both geometry and texture) isn't consitent with a lot of those packs. I can also tell that not a whole lot of care usually goes into making sure you don't have four or five 512x512 textures loaded on one model (that end up looking quite blurry up close), and some of those textures may have been taken from copyrighted sources ... and a lot of them end up being very noticable when tiled (take the roof on one of those arteria models, for example) When someone says "What can you expect for $10," well ... that's what you can expect from me. At least quality assurance, if nothing else. -Tyler |
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| how about you make a pack of back ground objects like boxes, barrels, fences and walls etc or the same sort of thing for a modern game. |
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| I'm thinking that might be a better idea, lol. I've not seen modern geometry very much lately, so I'll add it to the community sales to do list. Medieval may be too broad of a public opinion to work on, also ... it requires a certain degree of design that I lack. Thanks again, -Tyler |
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you just need a good reference, i google for images if i cant find a good book or photo. the problem i have is having the time to finish anything like a big pack of models, i find the textures take me a long time. nice image just found on google |
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| anyway tudor style houses like the one above,that feature quite alot in medievil RPGs are in completely the wrong time period. not that most gamers would care. call it artistic licence ;O) |
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| Thanks again :D Wish I could draw like that, then I wouldn't have a problem in my concepting / traditional art endeavors. |
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| or make them :) P.S. Can't let it pass... the 'Cruck' and 'Post and Truss' building techniques both date back to the 11th century. |
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| ok tonyg but i think there in there because of a romantic ideal of old english villages. they look cool! :OP ok history was never my strong point anyway |
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| I hope he's still working on his buildings - plenty of time for a Christmas release. |
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| I'll finish a few of them, to give it a good variety blend, maybe try to add some better geometry to the options, too. I'll release it in a more complete state. Might even just change the top post to reflect the changes, but wow, I think the price made people the most offended, lol. They'd make you think it was a 2 minute process or something. |
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| Please don't give up just because a few people think it's too pricey. Bundle packs are my favourite. I have a small small amount of money (£50) that I allocate myself every week for the sole purpose of buying premade content. I choose my content based on quality and price. I guess what I'm saying is that there will be a few people who don't agree with pricing, model structure etc etc.. but you will also get the people who like what you do and would buy your products despite what is said by others. Is $10 for one building too much? For me, no. For others, yes. Keep at it and lets see some bundle packs. :) |
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| ..well..I still do belive its expensive for 10$, especially when I see houses from Medieval time like this one on turbosquid...for free..is it better than yours or not, I will not say, but take a look for yourself.. http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/271992 http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/272296 |
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| Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Naughty Alien, but you're just plain out of the ball park. However you are not alone it seems, and that in itself is a caution. I looked over his work, and thought, hell if he can do it, then so can I. I can easily knock one or two like that out, no problem at all. Maybe one or two originals a day with little or no problem, and certainly no pressure. Then I saw what he was getting for them. That's peanuts. I would no way consider making models for anyone for that little money. They are quite clearly of decent quality, and seem to exhibit tidy workmanship. Do you really expect to get that for less than the price of say a pack of cigarettes or a decent cup of coffee? No, I thought not. There's utterly mean and then there's flat out unrealistic. It was one or other of those, or could just be even worse. I been at this a lot of years, even the worst of the worst short payers do way better than $10 for that sort of model, even when they are being way too cheeky and talking bulk. Even they would not have had the nerve for baulking at $10 for a one off, not even on a bad day. I would not pay $10 for it, but that's because I could make one myself. Why some don't try that and find out how far $10 don't go must remain a mystery I guess. |
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| ..well..whatever..I am not trying to discourage him..not at all..but, for prototyping purpose, 10$ per one house, is expensive..especially when I can find free stuff for prototyping anyway..but thats just me..but absolutely I support him to do his work, and thats for sure... |
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| @polygoon - Thank you :D @Naughty Alien - I appreciate the support, but those free models you point to have two problems. One is nearly 2000 polys by itself and the textures look a little blurry close up. The other is decent, but it's a freebie from a pack that costs $250 dollars whole. The other single buildings of that line are $40.00 True enough, if you want to prototype and like those style buildings, you can use them without charge. Just know that anyone else can too, and a whole lot more people are going to be using it rather than mine. I admit, they look good on a far shot with atmospheric rendering effects. I just don't like how they look in the engine. |
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| "one model set made that costs $250 for 15 buildings. It has a lot of cross-beams, maybe that's where you got the idea." Err, no. I suggest you don't research other building packs and then decide that's what medieval buildings looked like(!) but do some actual historical research (there's plenty on the web) or get out and about and look at preserved/reconstructed medieval buildings. |
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| I've seen a couple of old English buildings with cross-beams, but I don't think they all require them, you know what I mean? Now, the kind I was making may require them for better visual style, simply because they were of the taller-built variety. Thanks for the reference, though. It's going to be difficult to hit that nail on the head now, though, because I didn't know about all of Arteria's models (which seems to cover that ground well enough ...) As suggested before, I will try some things that I haven't seen lately (like the modern props pack, btw, if you know of places to get a similar pack, please post so that I don't cover the already covered) and maybe refine these models to better suit the expected visual style, because as they are, not as many people enjoy them as I expected, lol. |
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| That's peanuts. I would no way consider making models for anyone for that little money. Volume, volume... sell cheap but by the thousands. I wouldn't do that either for $10 if it would be contract work sold with all rights to some single person. But if you sell five of them it's $50 and that sounds better. Getting only 10$ would mean that I'd have do it in 20 minutes, modeling, textures & mapping included to make a decent pay per hour - not possible. And I also wonder why people think your house is expensive - those without the skills to do even simple model like that would struggle for DAYS to create even half as good model... compared that they could get it instantly for $10. Time is money and all that. |
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| Indeed, I consider $10 to be fairly cheap compared to how much time was spent making sure it was put together properly. I hear that's lacking from some content developers, and I aim to change the public view on buying things they haven't tested. Often times I offer a free model to people just to test and make sure it works on a particular engine. This is how I make my living, this is not a hobby. I am offering the second building of this pack for free as of right now, and everyone is welcome (and encouraged) to download it. The only condition is that if you download it, you have to tell me what you think of the quality compared to any free models you may have, and compared to any models that are similar that you may have bought. Give me the good and bad on every detail you can possibly come up with. I will try to take this constructive crit and make myself a better artist with it, and hopefully produce better results. Also, if someone would post a screenshot of what it looks like in Blitz, I would much appreciate it. http://www.togamario.com/samus06/House02.zip -Tyler |
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| I think there are a few model packs that are to cheap, making it hard for people selling one model, to get a good price for there work. |
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your model in blitz as you asked |
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| Mustang: "But if you sell five of them it's $50 and that sounds better." You sold the argument well, but it sounds like the same thing only five times more of it. In my view that's just five times worse, or making the same mistake five times over. ;O) Naughty Alien: "especially when I can find free stuff for prototyping anyway" Prototyping would only require a box of the same volume at most. I'd imagine you might be able to make those for yourself, eventually. Tyler: I had a look over it, you got just a very few polys that could quite possibly still be culled, but I bet it would not make too much difference unless there were an awful lot of them in frame at once (we're talking thousands in one shot I'd estimate) In General: Why do some think that an artist must be paid badly, and generally treated in a mouldy fashion? Artists can be your friends, why not start treating them that way? A little trade secret: I got two machines that I funded and which are made available for client work. If a client starts down the "same goods for less money" route, their work automatically goes on the slower one of the two. If they play nice, they get treated nice, but I always leave the choice to them. I have been at this long enough to know the value of a given model, through experience I am in a good position to know that and be right most of the time by now. Why a potential client might feel they know more about it than me is hard to say, but I've had the scars that taught me to know what I'm talking about. After all that's how come they decided to approach me in the first place. If they wanted cheap and nasty they should have gone to the guy next door, because I don't do that sort of stuff, and that's because there's no honest way to earn a living doing that. About levels of detail: This is a games making forum, it's not a museum's historical documentation and visualisation forum. Counting beams and knowing their names indeed. Not at these prices you don't! ;O) Of course some will think at this point, "but why not make it the best it can be?", I'd say that we already threw all quality issues out the window when we started talking cheap. If the software you want to use it in is cheap and nasty, then heck yes, get cheezey models too, they'll not look out of place. If you care about how your programs look, then buy some decent models to use in them. A thought that you might see as worth considering: Like any other decent artist, I always try to be a good guy for my clients, offering fair value for money; That issue about the colour of roof tiles; I'd automatically expect to fix that for no extra charge if the customer could tell me what they wanted. It's not a problem as I'd have made the orignal artwork and could therefore change it to suit their stated need. Of course with cheap stuff, the "artist" might say it's going to be that colour as I could not find any other sort on the world wide web! We all know you'd have not paid anything like top dollar at that point, you'd know exactly what kind of artist you got for the figure you were prepared to pay. At these sorts of prices, it's commonly accepted that there would be no textures anyway. Being ahead of the game often depends on knowing when you are ahead of the game. |
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| @Pete - I agree that people must have gotten used to some model packs being too cheap. Generally, I tend to think these model packs aren't always the best to choose, as I've heard of a lot of quality issues stimming from them. Thank you Mustang and Polygoon! I think I see those faces you're talking about, along the top border of the building, where I bent it in at the roof. As requested also, a grey roof alternative, for free ...  Either reassign the texture with a program, or make a backup copy of House01.png, rename House03.png to "House01.png" and use the first model. |
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| Too expensive? Where? So who can make a model complete with textures for less than $10 then? Let's see...say that's about the minium hourly wage. So you have about one hour. Ready? Find a medevil building, photograph it. make the textures. make the models. test the models and textures and publish. Wow!!! eh who's up for the challenge then? Still thinking about it? well you forgot... Buy a camera - capital investment buy the software - capital investment Learn how to use the stuff - capital investment ( time ) and yes it's costs time and money to go out traveling... ----------------- If you like using free stuff then you should just use the free stuff and stop trying to make people work for less than the minium wage because that is what all "freebie" lovers are trying to do, probably because you are ignorant of the true costs involved in making 3d media. Oh did I mention the tax man? bye bye another 20-30 percent.. ;( |
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| @Zyd, I'm not sure explaining why something costs what it does has any bearing on how much people are willing to pay. |
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| @tonyg. The point is obvious.;) $10 is inexpensive. My post is not intended to make freeloaders and the ignorant pay more. It is meant to educate ;) @Tyler : This is not the best place to get feedback for your modeling, there are many 3d resource sites post your stuff on there and you'll get impartial critique and good advice. |
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| psionic's site is one such place. http://www.psionic3d.co.uk/ |
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| $10 is inexpensive. Not if people don't want to pay it. |
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| The crossbeams may not be structurally required but they do add a bit of ornamentation to a seemingly plain looking building. Personally I would buy a building that looks more intricate as opposed to a plainer looking building. my 2 cents |
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| Anyone not wanting to pay is clearly not in the market in the first place. If that's the case it's hard to see how it can be a valid questioning of the cost in the first place. $10 for this is more or less the same thing as free, but with added lipservice and a prentence of respect for the author and their effort. Don't like it? Don't buy it! Custom of that kind is unlikely to ever be missed. |
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| Thanks for the advice on places to go for advice. @tonyg - Like and Dislike will determine if people buy my models, always. Price is not determined by how much you like or dislike it. Time and expertise are. @Chroma - What if adding those crossbeams/details caused an obvious lowering in the overall quality of the textures and the models pressence in-game? I'll post an example in a sec. eBay screwed up and now I've got a major security issue, and they're being tight lipped and policy-based (harboring criminals) on details. So I have to call my lawyer now, and get the information the most expensive way possible :( Let it be a lesson to all, don't deal with eBay ... have a yardsale. |
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| "Let it be a lesson to all, don't deal with eBay ... " Probably full of people who want the goods but don't want to pay! ;O) Hope you get sorted easily though. Sounds 'orrid. |
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| @tonyg - Like and Dislike will determine if people buy my models, always Thta's the point I was trying to make. $10 might be inexpensive for the time/effort put in but is expensive if people don't like them. Personally, they look 'OK' but are just a bit too clinical/symmetrical. Cross-beams would help but they also need to have less straight-lines and more of a mottled look in the daub to give them more character. They seem a half-way point between placeholder (e.g. normal cubes) and final graphics. |
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| I prefer to call it "High-Dollar Placeholder" :P Just kidding, of course. I'll see about adding the beams, I'm just concerned that the texture quality will suffer if I do (not that adding them would be a problem, but texture resolution could take away from the effect). |
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| What if adding those crossbeams/details caused an obvious lowering in the overall quality of the textures and the models pressence in-game? I have no idea what you mean by that statement. I can add stuff to my textures with no quality loss. And I'm no expert. |
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| hes using the same wall texture all round the building, if he adds cross beams to the texture on the longer sides of the building they will look very odd and distorted. i think thats what he means? |
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| Increase the size of the texture to allow yourself to keep the detail you want and add crossbeams as well. People's VRam usage is not your concern, it's their concern. If they want to use less VRam, let THEM make the texture smaller. |
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| It's a 1024x1024 texture file, as it will stay. What Pete pointed out is correct, and that's only one reason it would cause a quality issue. On the other hand, if I add the detail of those crossbeams directly to the texture, it will cause blurring since the beams (overall) will take up relatively thin strips of texture area (and it's very noticable next to the higher quality wood-grain of the outter supports). If I make it larger, it creeps into inefficient, and that's not worth the visual stimulus since most people will end up cutting it back anyway. @Gabriel - I don't believe that statement to be true. It's my responsibility to not produce a texture that is too large to be efficient, forcing buyers to take the initiative to cut the resolution, and thus the quality. |
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| think it loooms ok, but you probably need to add more detail to the model. i am sure you will gte more customers that way Its as simple as finding good pics and copying them, why make it harder by tryng to make it up, unless you are some kind of genius cartoonist |
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