new male model WIP

Community Forums/Graphic Chat/new male model WIP

HNPhan(Posted 2005) [#1]
I started this a few days ago, after checking out Zack Petrov's stuff


Im not happy with the Legs and head yet, so I'll be putting some finishing touchs here and there
any comments/critique would be appreciated

Ive been trying to put that model ingame using normal maps, but once animated, it doesnt look right, has anyone gotten skinned models to work with normal maps


DH(Posted 2005) [#2]
Normal maps aren't fully supported (as many of us are finding out).

There are 'workarounds' to get them to look correct, however they are ugly and cpu expensive.

I would suggest that you not use normal maps, you will find that for Blitz3d it is your best option.

Edit: oh, animated, then your def screwed. I heard that normal maps don't work on animated meshes (just what I heard). Wish I had better things to say, sorry.


ragtag(Posted 2005) [#3]
Nice model. Personally I would do him with the palms facing down though, as is his arms are twisted close to as far back as they will comfortably go and could twist about 220 degrees or more forward while maybe only 20 or so back. Not a very relaxed pose and harder to get good deformations.


Mustang(Posted 2005) [#4]

I heard that normal maps don't work on animated meshes (just what I heard).



Of course they do work, like in DOOM, FarCry, HL2... you just need "tangent space" instead of "object space" maps - and just guess which one Blitz almost supports [to my knowledge]? Yup...


Normal Map Formats

Since a normal map is a way to use color data to represent surface normals, there are several ways that the color data can be used - or several normal map "formats." In order for your normal map to give you the correct results, the program that generates the normal map and the program (or shader) that uses the normal map must use the same format.


Tangent Space vs Object Space vs World Space

The main way in which normal map formats differ is in what "space" they use. "Space" refers to the point of reference for the X,Y, and Z values (the R,G, and B of the normal map). All of the info that I've been discussing in my tutorials so far has been covering normal maps created in "Tangent Space."

Tangent Space normal maps use texture coordinate space, so X and Y are the U and V of the texture coordinates and Z is the surface normal. Tangent space normal maps appear mostly light blue (127,127,255) because the Blue channel represents the direction that the underlaying model surface is facing. The red (X) and green (Y) channels are for offseting that direction. Tangent Space normal maps are best used on characters that deform and when tilable normal maps need to be applied to curved surfaces in the environment.

Object Space normal maps use the orientation of the model as their X, Y, and Z. Y is most commonly in the direction of the top of the model while X is to the left of the model and Z in the direction the model is facing. Object Space normal maps usually appear rainbow colored because they represent normals that face in every direction instead of just a 180 degree hemisphere like Tangent Space normal maps. Object Space normal maps can be used on rigid objects that need to rotate and have a unique set of texture coordinates (not a tiled texture).

World Space normal maps are very similar to Object Space normal maps - except they use the X, Y, and Z of the world as their coordinates. They also appear rainbow colored. Because they depend on the world coordinates, you can't rotate a model with a World Space normal map and have the lighting still appear correctly. For that reason, World Space normal maps can only be used on static objects that have a unique set of texture coordinates.



http://www.monitorstudios.com/bcloward/tutorials_normal_maps11.html

Oh, and very nice model, Tiggy!


ImaginaryHuman(Posted 2005) [#5]
Couldn't you have several individual objects, posed in different `frame` positions in the animation, loaded in as separate objects, then placed in the scene in a sequence to give animation? Lots more data to load and display but it might work. Then your normals would be right for each position.


Mustang(Posted 2005) [#6]

Couldn't you have several individual objects, posed in different `frame` positions in the animation, loaded in as separate objects, then placed in the scene in a sequence to give animation? Lots more data to load and display but it might work. Then your normals would be right for each position.



Yes, but that would be really dum thing to do just for getting normal mapped stuff on screen... it would be a memory hog like you said and look jerkier and worse than MD2 which is the exactly the same technique but it morphs between the static frames.


Bob3d(Posted 2005) [#7]
Verrry good one, Tigerz ;)

What a pain will be to rig that so it deforms accurately, man... hehe

Oh, Max7 has normal maps full workflow embeded, now, have a look at the videos at their site, it's incredible...

I think they've put it at same bake for lightmaps dialog window...

The whole thing is video-explained.

Oh, and certain interestin Max7 new feature...I think is called skinwrap... You rig the low pol model, u animate...imagine ur boss decides at late time that normal maps versions of the model gonna be used in the project....so all the modelling team gets to work...you can use this feature: it'll wrap the hi res model over the low or mid pol rig, using its bones and automatically adjust its weights...

yeahyeah...I know, we'd have to see it be done to believe...I only saw in the video demo.

And u probably know all this. Just in case not.


Ruz(Posted 2005) [#8]
ermm i think tiger z set up the pose correctly, as it is harder to get the forearm twist looking right if you model it palms down.
it is jsut easier to get he arm looking nicer in this pose.

Anyway , looking nice tiger z


big10p(Posted 2005) [#9]
The model is very good but looking at it, it occured to me just how freaky looking humans are. No wonder alien lifeforms don't visit very often. :P


AntonyWells(Posted 2005) [#10]
How much did the Crystal Maze license set you back?


Ross C(Posted 2005) [#11]
You can use cubemaps to color the normal map with the correct normals. I've seen a demo of it. Since the Cubemap chooses the part of the texture based on the normal of the vertex, then a correctly coloured cubemap will produce accurate results.


slenkar(Posted 2005) [#12]
The genetalia isnt very realistic

good work on the rest though!


HNPhan(Posted 2005) [#13]
thx guyz
Isnt yours like that Slenkar?

Ross: ah, now I remember, gotta have to find it....


nadia(Posted 2005) [#14]
Looks great!
What tool did you use and how many polys/tris? It would be nice to see a shot of the wireframe.


Robert Cummings(Posted 2005) [#15]
I saw him on your site before seeing this thread. And my impression when I saw him on the site was that you paid a lot of time to the upper body and arms, but not the legs. The legs are too small and the knees could use adjustment. the calves aren't muscular enough in proportion to his overall strength. The feet could be slightly bigger and give him some more grounding.

Some strength in his lower legs (the upper seems quite all right). The anatomy on the feet isn't quite right either - it's too far done. Feet don't have great detail, even with championship bodybuilders, and that is part of the problem Veins on top are ok but not on the rear of the ankle.

I like this model, and he looks great rotating.

I would want to make his chest tighter and more muscular because his arms indicate he's worked out to a greater level than what can be seen.

It seems to me that you have varying levels of physical fitness to him without thought to his story and how much he did work out to get to that point. And by focussing on less is more, you can get that fixed next time.

I liked this model.


HNPhan(Posted 2005) [#16]
cool, valid points I probably wont be tuning the model anymore, since it will be under clothes but I'll sure that that into consideration on my next model.

#of polys is around 400k since it has around 4 iteration of mesh smooth