head wip
Community Forums/Graphic Chat/head wip
| ||
| been messing around with this for a while now. stil a while to go before its finished. Its mainly a practice piece but coming out ok  |
| ||
| I got nobody and nobody cares for me... BMPs... you should know better than that! Looks good, can't see anything wrong with it apart from his eyes look a touch droopy. |
| ||
| "Ruz" and "Rob Farley" together in a thread - what will "ENAY" say? ps. I like the head thing. |
| ||
| You're using a BMP to show people something- you daft, boi? ;) Anyhow, texture itself looks good. You have some polygons that don't do anything for the form and flow of the mesh in the 'back' area of the neck (referring to what's visible from the pictures, not its 'real' back). |
| ||
| Looks good. Ignore the critics. Knowing who you work for, polycount, I'd guess, is much less of an issue for you than it is for the rest of us. |
| ||
| Ignore the critics. That's not a wise suggestion. |
| ||
| That's not a wise suggestion. It is when the critics are picking fault where there *is* no fault. |
| ||
| It is when the critics are picking fault where there *is* no fault. And since when were you the judge of that? Whether or not there's a fault in the model is up to Ruz, not you. |
| ||
| And since when were YOU the judge of that? Whether or not there's a fault in the model is up to Ruz, not you. OK? |
| ||
| So why does it matter if we critique his work? He decides whether or not it's a fault worth fixing, we're not telling him to go and fix it because we think it's a fault, we're pointing out what we see. I'm not saying there is a fault in his work (you seem to think I am), I'm pointing out ways he can optimize his mesh without losing shape. |
| ||
| Noel cower, so young,(maybe you're not, but saw your photo the other day...is surely that I'm too old ;) ) so old school...I think Noel comes from Polycount, and learned the good texturing (let's call it skinning ;) ) techniques for that. Indeed, ur very good at that. And at Polycount, in pimping forums, it's rather usual to spot every single small detail. They get a lot of improvement this way. The bad thing is...It also doe snot encourage some people, when cirtics are too hard. At Zbrushcentral, moderators sugested a clever way, that i used as a drawing (cough, substitute) teacher, 1,2,1 I think or however was called. You spot an error, said two good things. When you say only bad details, some people tend to think they did it all bad. Which neither is true, and ecrtainly is as helpful to strenght what they've already done well, so they catch a possible good path. Not that I could give these type of comment to Noel or Ruz. They could do that with me, anyway ;) To a coder that hasn't seen that hundred of posts, it sounds harsh. But imho, here, and at Polycount, Noel is probably one of the friendest at that task ;) And I'm liking that wc3 style cottage modelling. [ I think u're learning now to model, or that at least you started later than texturing, isn't it? ] Bout the head (bob3d = off topic) , I'd say...perhaps, just perhaps, Ruz modelled it for better edgeloops that help in face expressions animations, am I right? look at how the loops flow in the almost exact (past the endings of the mouth, it may need and extra egde to aovid a peak when he smiles, but not sure) flow of the existing muscles of a human face. Look at surrounding ones aorund mouth, also bellow the eyes. Perhaps he made it only to build in a clean and accurate way the volumes, but it certainly can help a lot when facial animation with little bones and very carefull weighting (unless his engine uses vertex animation and he can do some morph targets, but I prefer the first) Noel imho comes from that very qualified Polycount "school" , that's why surely tries to make each polygon "count". (sorry for playing with words) But as is a hobby thing, or probably targeting a demo with a good 3d card or just an cutscene stuff in real time, I'd say counting on facial animation, the extra polies will help. In the ...head(where there's skin, don't your english word) there's not so much polies...nor in the neck, so perhaps he just plan to do that type of animation. My only critiques would be on proportions. A head can be like that, and Leonardo (that one from the old times) would say there's so many human types (as he documented) .Is possible, and even in many faces, so , so correct, though not the typical cannon, which use to have les distance between browses and hair beguining. makes the upper half in irfan 135 pixels tall, since middle of the eye to the chin, 117. Usually middle of the eye, or browse can be middle really, though not exactly that...I have the measures in my head, but can't tell u now, as is a feel I have while I draw and model, but can't say an exact math proportion here and now. jaw, cheek bones, are too wide. Is good as it makes the strong cowboys I saw in his mod ;) long ago...it depends on the character pretended, but this one has maybe to strong-wide ones. Also, as that whole are has less height than it should (or the other has too much) , that sensation is increased. ABout the eyes, to droppy, again, those are possible, and present in som much people. Maybe if pretending a perfect typical human game hero, or main player character, would be ideal to make him handsome, but heh, is not initially incorect. it depends on the intention of the artist :) The more realistic a human head is -and is a pretty good example- the easier for people to find tinny errors. I'm an oil portraits painter, done for money, and know very well that pain. You don't till what crazy details they come about...Even more when they have an idealized concept of their girlfriends, the poor women... XDDD I'd apply with careful smooth selection in Max an scale down of browse and upwards, and lengthen the other half (do in two steps) , specially...well...MAINLY since nose ending to chin ending...that's the shorter area, making the chin small for that strong jaw. probably...surely indeed, make the jaw and cheek bones thinner in X axe. This with smooth selection to noyt kill the great work, very carefuly. I'm imagining it with that, and may end with just two simple touches even mor eoutstanding. IMHO, when I'm modelling this happens to me constantly..even more in computer as the tool makes it more difficult, an du loose track of things when working zoomed, etc... He maybe used bmp as that richeness of texturing that he always make, and the care put into modelling details, maybe lost or screwed with jpg compression...I'd adivice PNG , though ;) And yep...it probably preferrable if I'd have shut my mouth, and say just wow, as is a very good model. I remember posting in some forums..."not searching for c&c" ,as in some forums, it's like they were waiting to destroy you, lol...XDDD Indeed, probably he posted just to show the wip, and was going to fix a load of things, all what I said much probably. Or he actually wants that type of human. dunno, was in the mood to write about this one XD |
| ||
| Thanks for the long crit Bob 3d. I didn't really go crazy over the details and usually I would find good reference to get the proportions spot on, but since I do this all day at work I just could nt be arsed on this occasion. But I probably will get aorund to making it better. I changed the eyes already. yeah i don't mind crits, I hang around polycount too and Noel is quite right to point out any errors as he sees it. Thats the reason people post mainly . I think perhaps i will make his head 'thinner' too.I have a habit of making heads too wide |
| ||
| BTW you were right aout me building to test out facial anumtion Bob 3d. I haven't done much of that . I have also built the teeth and tongue inside. I will show the skinned version soon. The polycount is ok for what I want. it will end up being quite high poly piece I think. |
| ||
| That's awesome, you've definitely got what it takes. |
| ||
| Looking at the new picture, I like the way you've done the lips. They light well. The hair is too blurry, though, it doesn't fit in with the rest of the texture. And it almost looks like the hair is a different color from the facial hair.. not sure on that count. 'Scuse me, Ruz, going off topic here.. [ I think u're learning now to model, or that at least you started later than texturing, isn't it? ] Assuming that's directed towards me, I started four years ago around the same time that I started skinning. I didn't spend as much time modelling as I did skinning and I don't do it that much anymore (coding is easier), but apparently I stil have the skills. Noel imho comes from that very qualified Polycount "school" Actually, I learned from the folks at Skindom years back (and I still get lots of pointers from HyPer). I haven't been involved in the Polycount community since about 2002 at latest. I just got sick of all the people who were expecting loads and loads of praise (and nothing else) for something that wasn't that good (I'd point out what I like and dislike and then they treat the latter as if I was insulting them, their family, and calling them a liar, cheat, thief, etc. - you get the point, I think). Noel is probably one of the friendest at that task I tend to be brutally honest. Something a lot of people don't like, because they want to be told lies about themselves so they feel better. |
| ||
| Think i will work more on the hair. I left some room in the uv layout for some hair transparency. He looks a bit 'brylcreemed' right now. |
| ||
| heh looks like a criminal :D Very nice, realistic, my only crit is the eyes are a bit close toghether? |
| ||
| you might be right there. I will look at that, cheers |
| ||
| The eyes look about right- an eye's distance between them. Worth a look anyways, though. |
| ||
| hey, now that you mention it... he does look like a criminal... i mean, if there is such a thing as a criminal look... anyway, he does sorta look like Jon Voight in Runaway Train... just give him blonde hair and a cap... nice work R... wish i was as good at organics, especially heads and faces... --Mike |
| ||
| Looks excellent |
| ||
| thnks for the comments guys. gonna do a female when this is done. |
| ||
| Jon Voight (midnight cowboy? ...how was the name of that film...an recently the one with the anaconda...) had very strong jaws ;) A criminal? well..the hard cowboy, or the mafia bad guy :D perhaps eyes are a bit small, and that's why some said abot distance between them...but agai,could be as a side effect of the width of face. Anyway, at this level of realism, is hard to say accurate comments. You're making teeth even! woah, a lot of work. :) hehe. my monitor is too dark to see the hair...well, open in irfan now...yep, are you using simetric uvs welded (suing only one side) ? I don't do that anymore... it makes hair making hard too look natural... Do you refer to that when remaking uvs of that part, or just making it have more uv texture space? oh, hair transparency, I see. @Noel yep, I allways though you were mainly an 'old skool' skinner. (skindom and hyper are symptoms of that ;) ) Perhaps hyper tuts are the ones I liked more, though I already had my workflows with lith ,am a bit paranoid with that. Still, I've seen recent posts from u at Polycount... probably you didn't vanish totally at all from there.. coding is easier? that for you, man! I'm 32 year old, and can't code not even in java script, lol. Cirtics...yep. I make comments and critics very happily, but I doubt I'd take my own critics from anyone very well, hehe. So, I admire when ppl takes it as well as ruz. Anyway, usually 50% (include what I say in that) os what is said as critics, is wrong, so is not that it matters too much. |
| ||
| he he, we hv regular meetings at work, where our efforts are put uinder the microscope, so i am used to being criticised. Anyway, pointing out flaws is a good thing, cause it helps you to raise the standard. Bob, the uvs in my head are not just once side of the face. i have laid out the whole head so I can paint flaws in the skin which are non symmetrical, though the head above looks a bit symmetrcial at the moment . |
| ||
| Nice head Ruz. I agree that the eyes are maybe a bit too close together, making him look like an Austra... I mean criminal ;) The texturing is really nice too, very realistic |
| ||
| dang!!! thats awesome i wish i could do that!!!! ...my best texture of a human looked like a lego man lol ...my best human looks...errr...non-human i wish i had the modeling/texturing skills you do!!!!!! |
| ||
| I think its SPOT ON. if I was you I wouldnt change anything on it. I think something a lot of people tend to forget is that were all different, sure the eyes may look a little close, but who cares, it looks damn good. there is a danger of making a model look to perfect, it gives the character a fake sort of look about him. How many heads have you seen with a squint nose or spot's or buck teeth, or anything else that sets us appart and makes us look different. |
| ||
| Seconded, I think it's excellent. Looks like a latino cop in a TV show to me... Lt Ramirez I reckon he's called. The skinning in particular is really impressive - I think for a bit of extra realism, it might help to 'dirty up' the eyeballs a bit, they look a bit too perfect at the moment. Slight reddishness towards the corners, or the hint of a vein, or a slightly more mixed colour in the iris. In my travails as an amateur photographer, I've found that sometimes seeing a face completely square on can look a little weird. It might be worth posting a picture with a square on portrait next to a profile, and maybe one at a very slight angle. |
| ||
 lil update hmm, the head is stil bit weird. will do another one soon |
| ||
| Thats awesome! Did you create the skin (texture) from scratch? Thats some nice detail you got there. |
| ||
| very nice work! |
| ||
| ICECAP , yeah, all done from scratch in pshop7 and my graphire 2 jfk, thanks , hope you like the update. |
| ||
| Sheesh... all of a sudden i feel humbled... Nice work. Wish i had a 10th of that ability to texture. |
| ||
| Excellent. |
| ||
| Yes very good work! By the way, What happend with the pear man project? |
| ||
| Thnaks for the cooments guys. Yes , perman or 'sknnybob the jester' as its now called is ready to release in demo form, but just haven't got around to sorting out web space |
| ||
| OK, this is just stunning work, Ruz - like you didn't know. :) I simply can't imagine how this stuff could be improved. |
| ||
| very nice............ |
| ||
| (Because it's so much better than I can do) Total rubbish :) |
| ||
| wow... that IS some decent looking work there Ruz... hey, in the app you are gonna use him in, ya gotta make him talk... move that mouth, and roll those eyes around a bit... just sitting still there, i expect him to look up and ask me... "What the hell you lookin' at fella!!" --Mike |
| ||
Actually, if I could make one critism is that the texture is too smooth and too perfect. You need to give the guy some blotches and blackheads and stuff, his skin is currently smoother than a babies arse. |
| ||
| yeah, give him more of an edward james omos look. |
| ||
| Thnaks for the positive comments Rob , the reason its smooth is that its a default head .If I use the mesh to make a character with blotchy skin ,then I will add to the texture Red, he will be talking soon, gave him teeth and tongue |
   |