what's the advantage?
Community Forums/Developer Stations/what's the advantage?
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| hello It is selfunderstanding that HiEnd application such as 3DMax an Maya are , generally speaking, much more advanced tools than Fragmotion or Milkshape However if you go through the list of their features you can see that just a few of them are actually of use for real time low polys graphic such as games The basic operations , the ones that you use ,I mean, are supplied also by Frgmotion or Milkshape Not to mention that many operations are the responsability of the engine For example NLA ( Non linear animation ) is a key tool to create complex and long animations but in game programming you normally create short animations on spot and you blend them in the gameplay Just an axample Having said that Is it worthwhile in your opinion learning complicated tool such as Blender even for an hobbyest game programmer ? If so Can you give me some concrete examples ? |
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| I'm confused. Wasn't this you just a few days ago? Why should I keep using that toy like and obsolete scene editor such as 3d World Studio ? Just because I can design those scenes in 10 minutes time ? Just because it cost only 50 usd ? No, my friends ,I took a decision I will never come back I go for 3DMAX Why the change of mind? |
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| if you want to learn blender , learn the basics from websites and watch videos for anything more than the basics |
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| Is it worthwhile in your opinion learning complicated tool such as Blender even for an hobbyest game programmer ? Long story short, no I don't think so. There are lots of advantages to fuller tools and this could be a long discussion, but if the tools you're currently using work great for you then keep using them. Now this response is very dependent on the whole "hobbyist" aspect of things. If you have any inkling of working on games beyond just a fun hobby then it's definitely worthwhile to learn the tools the pros use. |
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| When I first started I used milkshape, which was fine at the time. Later I foolishly bought Caligari Gamespace which was not only unstable but had a terrible interface. A few years later I bought a copy of Softimage:XSI Foundation (don't think this version exists anymore though) for $500US ($800 AUD at the time) which is far superior to both those previously mentioned programs. One of the best things about a 'professional' 3d package is that often the interface is far superior to those in the packages already mentioned. And as your needs change with regards to 3d packages you may find that a more expensive professional utility's additional 'non game' features come in quite handy. I once tried blender about 5 years ago and couldn't even work out how to create a cube...I'm guessing it has changed since then, and I'm sure there are people here who praise its virtues - especially the fact it is 'free' but sometimes spending a little bit more can be worth it. |
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| Now this response is very dependent on the whole "hobbyist" Well put it this way Take the hundreds games developed by the blitzers or other Indie engines users Few of them have an advanced graphics, not at least to such extent , to justify , in my opinion, the use of 3dmax or Blender atc Some programmers feel smart to use c++ even though they exploit just a fraction of its power The same , I guess ,for artists with 3DMax , Blender etc It is more an emotional rather than a rational issue Anyway I am curious to konow whether these advanced tool ( I never used them just a little bit Blender) can actually offer some concrete advantage even to create the realtively simple artworks of the Indie games I'm confused. Wasn't this you just a few days ago? Yes, it was me I tried to be ironic, I made a mistake, I am not a native english speaker I had mentioned , in a previuos post, a famous Indie game " Marble Blast " I said that the artworks are so simple that you dont need to use 3DMax nevertheless it is a great Indie game thanks to its gameplay I was replied nope...3DMax is the best .....ALWAYES A nonsense in my opinion Simple tools for simple tasks That's my point |
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| the latest 2.5 version of blender is a lot easier to use |
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| OK but they can not make miracles Whatever they can do, the learning curve of redundant tools is alwayes steeper than the one of tools supplying just the essential features The point is Does blender (Or 3DMa, or Maya) supply unique features which are of use even to create simple graphic stuff ? Frankly speaking I have never had a clear answer to such question something like Take the operation xxx ot the yyy it is a must also to create low polys model and animations but Fragmotion does not supply it |
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| I tried to be ironic, I made a mistake, I am not a native english speaker Oh ok. Sorry, I thought you actually wanted advice and discussion. I didn't realize you were just trying to provoke an argument. I'd join in, but it'll just go like all the previous ones where you get concrete answers you don't like, ignore them, and then claim no one gave you any concrete answers. I like an argument as much as the next guy, but the words "wheels" and "spinning" spring to mind. |
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| Frankly speaking I have never had a clear answer to such question Actually the example you gave is not an answer to your question. You asked a yes or no question. I gave you the answer "no." Are you arguing with my answer or simply asking for more opinions? I'd join in, but it'll just go like all the previous ones where you get concrete answers you don't like, ignore them, and then claim no one gave you any concrete answers. Oh wait, he does this frequently? In that case I'll save myself some grief and just ignore this thread. |
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| Alberto: Ignore the negative folks who are slamming you, this is simply what they do. I agree with what you said in post #6. For an indie game, having more expensive tools does not make for better artwork. In the end it comes down to talent and finding what modeling program you can understand and use to get the best results and be the most productive with. |
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| The advantages of using one of the high-end 3D modelling studios can be narrowed down to basically this Work Flow: Almost all the tools that you require are within the one application. These tools would include ..An ease of use interface system (most of the time) ..Modelling .. vertex/polygon/edge manipulation ..Character Rigging .. using bones/C4D's joints system ..Animation ..UV Editing ..Texturing .. Some high-end applications allow you to paint directly onto a 3D model as well as create fake detail maps e.g. normal maps. Blender, as far as I am aware can also do many of the things that an high-end 3D modelling application can do but has one major disadvantage... and that is it's user interface. But if you have the time to learn it's interface then it's possibly just as fast as one of the high-end applications. Now imagine the number of applications need to do the same tasks. You would have to learn to use each applications interface and it's tools. On top of that will each application export to a file format that can be easily recognised by the others? Remember many of the high-end 3D modelling applications are aimed at professional computer graphic artists who's line of work may include TV and film production as well as games so the extra feature maybe needed. And as the industry standard appears to be 3D Studio Max that's what many will be using and possibly use a few of the other applications in-conjunction with 3D Studio Max. So to coin a phrase "time is money" springs to mind. And as GaryV says "In the end it comes down to talent and finding what modeling program you can understand and use to get the best results and be the most productive with." I tend to use Five applications but they are are mostly high-end Cinema4D R11.5 XL: This is a 3D Modelling/Texutering application created by Maxon and comes in a number of editions from the base version (good enough for games) to the full studio version that has been used in a number of films and TV shows. EDIT: I have been trying out C4D R12 Studio... Verdict: "Avoid" as now getting your creations into another format has become impossible. Yet again Maxon have some how managed to screw to Export functions again. If it's not fixed by R12.5 then it looks like I will bee moving onto 3D Studio Max some time in the future. ZBrush 4: This is basically a model sculpting/texturing application that will allow you to create fake detail textures maps to be used with low poly models. There is a free tool to create these texture maps called xNormal but you have to supply it with two models.. One high poly and one low poly. Photoshop CS4 Extended: The Gimp is the only free appliction that comes close to photoshop but hasn't got the Photoshop Extended 3D model painting features (and a few other things). Genetica 3.5: This is a node based seamless texture creation tool. There is a free tool somewhere out there on the net that does the same thing ( I can not remember it's name ) but I found it's work flow awkward. Ultimate Unwrap3D: A UV Editing tool. I use it as an importer/exporter just for the number of file formats it can handle. |
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| Blender is not complicated, it is just different. And yes it is worth learning. It is mid-hi end and free. |
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| Gabriel I got concrete answers ? You are joking I suppose Which ones ? may I ask you ? Yes I tried to provoke an argument I posted some snapshot from " Marble Blast " game I even selected the simplest ones I asked the question Do you really need 3DMax to make something like that ? I was exapectig an answer such as "Well it is not fair of you, these artworks are really simple but there are also Indie games with more sophisticated artworks" Nope, I have been replied ...3DMAX fOR EVER I made just a test I had the confirmation to have to do with fan boys |
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