Pirating programs...
Archives Forums/General Discussion/Pirating programs...
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| I notice a thread was locked after people were disbelieving of Azaratur's acquiring of 3dsMax. I don't understand the locking- Azaratur didn't say whether he had purchased the program (in fact, it looked like he was someone that couldn't afford it), and Max is one of the most highly pirated programs out there. So, isn't it acceptable on this forum to call someone's bluff on costly programs? I agree people could do it nicely, but locking the thread? I don't know. If people steal a program, they shouldn't really be entitled to help with it... not in my mind, anyway. |
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| I think that discussing the ethics/morality/legality of piracy is one thing, but making personal accusations is a bit much due to the possible legal ramifications. Then again, if people are foolish enough to make it blatantly obvious that they've pirated a specific piece of software then they should expect trouble. Perhaps it's not for us to question where someone got their expensive software. Meeting every request for help with accusations and suspicion can only result in a virtual witchhunt. Besides, why should you or I care where (or how) others got hold of their software? |
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| Would you walk up to someone with a nice looking car who doesn't look like they could afford it and accuse them of being a thief? If not, why would you think that is acceptable here, in regards to a software program, when its not even as serious a crime? Also, while you're busy accusing someone of being a thief, you yourself are breaking the law... Tarnishing someone's reputation like that with no evidence is called slander. |
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| Why are you trying to have a go at me? I didn't accuse anyone of anything. Meeting every request for help with accusations and suspicion can only result in a virtual witchhunt. That's true, but I don't think that's the case on this forum. Besides, why should you or I care where (or how) others got hold of their software? Gee, I don't know. Maybe because it's irritating to some people. Would you walk up to someone with a nice looking car who doesn't look like they could afford it and accuse them of being a thief? If a person smashed the window of an expensive looking car with a baseball bat and hotwired the vehicle, would you accuse them of being a thief? ...when its not even as serious a crime? Not serious? It's not rape or murder, no. But, some people consider it serious. Some people would consider it serious enough to say, "Hey, no support for you." Tarnishing someone's reputation like that with no evidence is called slander. No one tarnished anyone's reputation. People inquired, and questioned the validity of the situation. |
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| Not a serious crime depends on where you live. In Europe it can mean up to 4 years jail if you do so! |
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| Why are you trying to have a go at me? I didn't accuse anyone of anything. No, but you seem to be supporting those who accuse people. If a person smashed the window of an expensive looking car with a baseball bat and hotwired the vehicle, would you accuse them of being a thief? So you witnessed them copy this program, did you? Not serious? Did I say it wasn't serious? No. I said it was not AS serious. Which it is not. The crime of grand theft auto is a criminal one which results in jailtime. The crime of piracy is a civil one which results in a fine. At least in the US... In Europe it can mean up to 4 years jail if you do so! Well, I suppose that shouldn't be too surprising when you have cameras on every street corner, and vans driving around looking for TV antennas, and you need a permit to paint your house a certain color, or place a shed in your back yard. Btw, I was wondering... Do you need a planning permit to plant daisies in your gardens too? |
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| In Europe it can mean up to 4 years jail if you do so! ... If you're caught. I wonder what percentage of "pirates" are, though? Also, I think that the words "up to" are crucial to your statement. I doubt that many of the people who are caught and convincted get a maximum sentence or even one that remotely approaches that. |
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| I wonder also if he's confusing mere copying with selling. If you've ever seen those warning screens before a movie, selling copyrighted stuff can result in huge fines and jailtime. But copying alone will not, unless you're a company and your computers are full of the stuff. And even then you'll just get fined. |
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| Oh and one more thing. Folks simply assumed that Azaratur has the professional version of 3DS Max. But he could be a student and have the much cheaper student version: http://www.studica.com/products/product_detail.cfm?productid=56026 $99 b*tches! Even the commercial version's only $1500. I don't know about you, but where I come from that's not an insane amount of money that it is inconceivable one could afford to spend, (I spent more than twice as much on my cameras) and it's perfectly reasonable for someone to spend that much on their software and then be looking for free or inexpensive textures, just as I am now looking for inexpensive music for my games, because hey, I can get music many places for almost free, so why not use that instead of paying another $2K for that? Don't you people know how to spend your money wisely? |
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| I know of companies which were shut down due to piracy (of Autodesk software). No, but you seem to be supporting those who accuse people. Not quite. I support those who have a right to inquire. So you witnessed them copy this program, did you? No. One bad analogy deserves another. Your car analogy was a poor example of the situation. I wonder what percentage of "pirates" are, though? With software like Max (and other popular programs like Photoshop), it's extremely high. Outside of the 'net and my mum, I don't know anyone that purchases their software. I've met hundreds of students of 3D programs, and not one considered using a legit copy. |
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| But he could be a student and have the much cheaper student version: That's a fair point. People should be allowed to inquire about which version he has, though. Even the commercial version's only $1500. Not in Australia it's not. It's around the 3k mark. |
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| Correction: 3dsMax 2008 is $5,390.00 AUD. |
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| "I've met hundreds of students of 3D programs, and not one considered using a legit copy." And yet you think folks should choose to pick on this one unfortunate fellow when they don't even know for fact that he pirated it? |
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| Reactor: But is it region locked? I don't believe it is. So why can't you buy it from a US website, in USD? |
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| Adobe and Autodesk lock that kind of thing down. There is one place you buy Adobe stuff online and get around it, but Autodesk have systems in place (as do Softimage, etc) for resellers. And yet you think folks should choose to pick on this one unfortunate fellow when they don't even know for fact that he pirated it? Unfortunate? Was he? I don't think they should 'pick'... but they should be allowed to ask. Keep in mind, I'm not saying there should be a repeat of that thread allowed... I'm only saying the topic should be allowed to be brought up, or people should be free to inquire as to whether someone has purchased the software. |
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| I should add- reading that thread I was hoping to hear more about whether Autodesk were giving away copies of Max to people. But, I think the guy who mentioned it was seen as being skeptical of it, and 'nasty'. |
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| How people acquire and use their software is their own business, and their own responsibility. If someone posts asking for help you can either help them out or refuse to answer (for whatever reason). Interrogating them over the legality of their software achieves nothing. You can't tell what they've done or what their circumstances are. People just enjoy taking the moral high ground to castigate others. Show me someone who claims to have never broken any laws and I'll show you a liar. I'm sure Autodesk (or whoever) are quite capable of protecting their own interests if it becomes a real issue. Some people should just mind thier own beeswax and if they haven't got anything useful to say then STFU. Darkheart |
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| Don't you mean "stuff them"? ;) Firstly you say people can refuse to help for whatever reason. Then you say interrogating people achieves nothing... but what if it helps people decide whether they want to lend help or not? Isn't that something achieved? |
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| "Show me someone who claims to have never broken any laws and I'll show you a liar." I applied for a level designer position at a large game company in Massachusetts, around 1996. They decided to interview me over the phone, and put me on speakerphone with a few of their guys. The very first question they asked me was if I pirated software. This took me by complete surprise, nobody'd ever asked that in an interview before. I told them I did not. They immediately became hostile, asked me again, called me a liar, said they didn't think I was a good fit for their company, and ended the interview, all in the course of about two minutes. Piracy is rampant in the game industry, and I wonder what folks here who are coming down so hard on this kid will do when they take a job at a big company and find out that the software they're using isn't all entirely legit? |
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| Interesting story, but I'm not sure I catch the point. I doubt they'll be that surprised if they do belong to a company which uses pirate software, but there are also many companies which don't. |
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| Thanks for moving the thread! Apologies, it should have been started here. |
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| So, isn't it acceptable on this forum to call someone's bluff on costly programs? No. It is in fact a clear violation of the terms of service. Namely the "don't be a dick" clause. But, some people consider it serious. Yes. Usually by people who have never been a victim of a proper crime. Haveing your stuff stolen at gunpoint is several orders of magnitude more traumatizing than someone getting your software for free of a suspect website. You might want to just take my word for it. In Europe it can mean up to 4 years jail if you do so! In which European country has anyone ever gotten any jail time (much less 4 years) for using pirated software? The crime of grand theft auto is a criminal one which results in jailtime. It's actually a felony, and in many US states, subject to "3 strike" laws. So it is not by any reasonable margin close to being "as serious" as piracy. I know of companies which were shut down due to piracy (of Autodesk software). No they weren't. They went bankrupt because they couldn't afford to pay the fine / lawyers. In most non-totalitarian countries, companies cannot be shut-down. I don't know anyone that purchases their software. Just because you and your buddies are thieves doesn't mean everyone else is. Maybe you just need more honest friends? Correction: 3dsMax 2008 is $5,390.00 AUD. Yes but that's in Australian Wood Dollars, not in real money. Interrogating them over the legality of their software achieves nothing. For once. We agree. Show me someone who claims to have never broken any laws and I'll show you a liar. I've hurt someones feelings once... :o> I doubt they'll be that surprised if they do belong to a company which uses pirate software, but there are also many companies which don't. Name one. Even Microsoft (the champions of anti-piracy, haters of free software, and heavy advocates for DRM and "Trusted Computing") uses pirated software (Google for Microsoft Radium Codec or something to that effect). Which the possible exception of companies who use free software exclusively, there are no companies who do not use pirated software. |
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| I have a confession to make: I lent my brother-in-law my copy "Assain's Creed" and allowed him to play it. By doing so I knowling and blatnently violated the copyright agreement and almost definatly deprived Ubisoft of a sale. My wife also did a similar thing very recently, she allowed her best friend to borrow her copy of "The Mysterious Case of the Dog in the Night-Time", again which is expressly forbiden by the copyright. My daughter has hanging on her bedroom door a picture of Mickey Mouse, Goofy and Barbie which she created and publicly displays without contacting the rights holders or paying any kind of roylaty. All of these are fully punishable under UK law and it's happening 1000's of times a day. Rather than vilify someone who asked for help on the forum over what he MAY have done; convince me that what I've HAVE done is wrong, because I don't believe it is at all. Darkheart |
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| Copyright does not forbid lending someone your physical copy of a game. It would be illegal if you gave it to them and had a copy for yourself. Copyright only protects the asset as such, not the usage within the allowed "usages" ie installing and play it. EULAs normally disallow trading and lending but they are of no interest and not legal. In europa a lot of places just do that, selling second hand games, rent games etc. |
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| In europa a lot of places just do that, selling second hand games, rent games etc. Ah, now I understand why you have such strange ideas about copyright laws. You're from Jupiter! I hear we're to attempt no landing there. |
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| Sorry about all the quoting. It is in fact a clear violation of the terms of service. Namely the "don't be a dick" clause. Sounds more ambiguious than clear to me. No they weren't. They went bankrupt because they couldn't afford to pay the fine / lawyers. In most non-totalitarian countries, companies cannot be shut-down. No, I meant the people running the company had to shut it down. Just because you and your buddies are thieves doesn't mean everyone else is. Maybe you just need more honest friends? Are you trying to play the 'dick' now? I don't pirate software, and I wasn't talking about my chummy chummy buddies. Plus, I didn't say, "everyone else is". Yes but that's in Australian Wood Dollars, not in real money. Apparently Adobe and Autodesk think so, yes ;) Which the possible exception of companies who use free software exclusively, there are no companies who do not use pirated software. You think so? |
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| Every book I've ever seen has a copyright notice fobidding lending, lots of games too. The fact is, everyone ignores it and nobody is whiter than white. Darkheart |
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| "Yes but that's in Australian Wood Dollars, not in real money." I used to enjoy making fun of other people's currency, but the other day I got a $5 bill in change which had a big purple number 5 on my greenback which is now more of yellow/pinkback. :-( |
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| and nobody is whiter than white. I wouldn't be too sure about that. I work at home all day long with the shades closed. |
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| I agree, nobody is whiter than white (I hope we're thinking of the same thing) but the whole, "Everyone ignores it" is just silly thinking. It may (mostly) be true, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. |
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| If the law works so EVERYONE is a criminal then the law is pointless and unenforceable and needs changing. Darkheart |
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| i thought sswifts car analogy was a good one at no point did he say the window was smashed and the ignition hot wired now if s/he took a hotwired car to a legit garage for a new window and ignition the mechanic would have every right to be suspicious but if said driver took the same car minus any damages cos it was bought (regardless of the honesty of the money) to the same garage for its mot and the mechanic thought it was hot its the mechanics own prejudicies calling the shots 10 years ago, when i was living in oldham, a shit hole outside of manchester, i saw a lamborgini countach or diablo but im thinking countach (however you spell it) it was parked in a less than nice street and you could think "drug money" i know i did this could have been early morning when i was working nights and missed my stop having to get off at the depot (probably fallen asleep) but i later had a job near the bus depot so walked up and down each day and found a 'lap dancing' club very close to where i remember the car being, so my drug money became 'pimp' money if i had seen this car anywhere else i might have thought otherwise like for example in and around the science parks of cambridge i might find flash cars aplenty, not that i go looking mind you wrong end of town for me so just cos someone you see has a flash car dont automatically make them a theif or a drug dealer/pimp they could have in all honesty one on the lottery |
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| Depending on the country where you live, it is even questionable if EULAs are legally binding at all. Germany is one of those countries, and I think we are the only country in the world where Microsoft is forced to sell OEM/Systembuilder versions of their software to end users and where they cannot enforce the bundling with hardware. For once, German courts did the right thing with that 'OEM ruling'. Still, we need many more lawsuits and decisions like that one. For example, although I am an Apple customer, I would just LOVE to see a court decision that would force them to make OS X available for non-Apple hardware. But that is a different story. Although Germany has a law that prohibits the removal of "functioning" copy protection mechanisms from software or CDs/DVDs, we also do have a law that actually allows people to make a copy of a music CD or movie as long as you are in the possession of the original media when you copy it. You do not have to be the owner of that original media; it can be a rented CD. Of course, this is only for personal/private use. And if my information is still valid, this law (or exception to a law) still hasn't changed. I doesn't extend to software, though. Illegal software: Well, I do NOT use pirated software. Once you've worked for a software company that went bankrupt, your attitude towards software piracy changes significantly when you have to live off your credit card for a couple of months while at the same time you can find illegal copies of your software on the eDonkey network. Still, I do not support copy protection "solutions" in any way and think that suing your own customers is the stupidest thing you can possibly do in this business. About the harassment business here: I don't know what thread you guys are talking about, but if somebody openly said that he was using pirated software, than the thread was rightfully deleted in my opinion. When you are a software company like BRL, you cannot allow your customers make you look as if you are condoning the use of illegal software by letting them post messages like this on your public forums. There are also legal terms for that if you do, and BRL could probably even be sued for it. If you want to be respected as a professional, no matter what business you are in, do not use stolen software, tools or other equipment. If you cannot afford the software that you want to use, either find some legal funding for it or bite in the sour apple and look for open source alternatives. Also, there usually is the option of purchasing a legal older version of the software. I doubt that you will always need the shiniest latest and greatest. |
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| I agree, nobody is whiter than white (I hope we're thinking of the same thing) but the whole, "Everyone ignores it" is just silly thinking. It may (mostly) be true, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. Talking about it here won't solve anything. Clearly the only course of action open to you if you have evidence of piracy, given your feeling on the matter, is to report it to the relevant authorities. Just be aware that if you make unfounded accusations, you could be the one on the wrong end of the law. |
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| Darkheart, That's not how the law works. The law in this case is set up so if you make something, people must agree to pay for what you've produced. As a developer, what would you think if people kept stealing your games and said, "Obviously the law is pointless because it can't stop us talking your games and so it should be changed so we can legally." I'm willing to bet you'd argue the point, and so would millions of other people who rely on laws (no matter how unenforced) to help them make a living. People are greedy and selfish by nature. If you changed the laws to let the general populace have their way, over time the economy would fall to pieces in every country. Yes, it's true as you say that the enforcement of laws isn't that great. And, many laws are outdated. Some are even unfair. But, the laws which protect copyrighted material from being taken willy nilly still have their place, even if it doesn't make life easy for people who just want to take stuff without paying for it. I agree completely Winni. |
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| Just be aware that if you make unfounded accusations, you could be the one on the wrong end of the law. I doubt that, but that's not the point of this thread. I was simply asking why people can't inquire as to whether legit copies of programs are being used, in the case when there's some evidence to say they might not be. |
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| Simple questions: Do you think anything done in the list I gave above (search for the word confession) is wrong? Do you think a judge would convict me? If he did doesn't that put most of the population in the dock as equally guilty of doing very similar things? Wouldn't there be a certain irony in a judge convicting me of doing something he had done himself 100's of times? As far as wether other people's software is legit or not, that's not your responsibility and none of your business. It's their responsiblity and up to them. The copyright holders can go after anyone the feel is worth pursuing. If you really feel you MUST do something report your concerns to the copyright holder. As it's not possible for you to be certain (or even very sure) of what the facts are calling them out on a public forum without real evidence isn't right. If you just want to go after someone, go after me, at least you can be sure I've commited those "crimes". Darkheart |
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| Sorry, what list was that? |
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| after reading the locked thread i know they werent talking about Azaratur but another coder who had some 'story' about how he got his 'copy' and again back to the "if you can afford to spend £/$(the cost of 3dsmax) why cant you afford to pay for media?" question "why? because ive just spent £/$(the cost of 3dsmax) and im skint" reminds me of when i was working in an indi pc/amiga shop in the early 90's right after school some guy pulls up outside in that years reg car and asks if we sell any c64 games we said no amiga and sega only (pc games were embrionic outside of the sim genre) we joked about it when he left why cant he buy an amiga and some games? cos hes gone out and bouht a great big penis extention and is now skint till his next giro |
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| Thanks Ginger Tea, that was very... random ;) |
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| allways happy to help :) |
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| "and is now skint till his next giro" Is that even english? :-) |
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| I was simply asking why people can't inquire as to whether legit copies of programs are being used... In the real world (face to face), at the very least, I would punch you in the nose if you asked me that. A question like that is nothing more than a veiled accusation. |
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| skint = poor giro = bennefits cheque and he is now too poor to buy an amiga and games from us as he has to wait another two weeks for his bennefits cheque to arrive just doesnt roll off the tounge as easily :p |
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| Skint I knew, but not giro ;) In the real world (face to face), at the very least, I would punch you in the nose if you asked me that. A question like that is nothing more than a veiled accusation. Sheesh, that'd be one heck of an hypersensitive overreaction. I own a $6k copy of Motionbuilder 7.5, and I'm just getting started on learning to animate. If someone asked me where that came from I really wouldn't mind. In fact, if someone accused me of piracy, although I might get slighty bothered by the insinuation, I certainly wouldn't put myself in jail by punching someone. If someone asks, that just means the situation appears to them to be something, even if it's not. If they're genuine in their asking, who am I to blame them for what they think is going on? |
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| Why does this forum even have a General Discussion. |
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| we used to have "giro bank" which may not exist anymore issue bennefit cheques in the uk and the name giro stuck, but its a uk only slang same as quid and fiver/tenner ive never heard dollars being refered to as tenners im a bit clueless when people start going on about ponies monkies and other zoo animals in reference to money though kinda the same as never seeing dollars or other currency for that matter ive no idea which president is on which note so when i hear in a movie someone onabout the jefferson notes ive no idea how much thats worth, lost outside the states but perfectly understood inside |
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| Sheesh, that'd be one heck of an hypersensitive overreaction. I don't see how that can be considered overreacting when somebody is accusing you of theft to your face. I certainly wouldn't put myself in jail by punching someone. Being that somebody was provoking/instigating the altercation by falsely accusing me of a crime, I don't see how I would be arrested if I simply broke somebody's nose. If anything, I would imagine the person I punched would get a few citations for his actions and verbal harrassment. I would also consider a civil suit against the person I punched. Afterall, you can't go around accusing somebody of something like theft. Now when stores falsely accuse somebody of theft, they usually get sued and settle out of court for a few hundred thousand or a couple of million. I could probably get at least five-ten grand in a suit. The person might be forced to sell their home and car to be able to pay me, or perhaps the judge would order a lein of a few hundred bucks on each of the person's paychecks until they have paid their debt. |
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| I don't think it'd work the way you expect it would in my country. I don't see how that can be considered overreacting when somebody is accusing you of theft to your face. Are you kidding me? Of course it's overreacting. That's a disproportionate responce to the situation. Even if they were accusing you (and they're not, they're asking if you are using a legit copy) it's not as if your life is on the line or your family is in danger. Plus, there are many other reasons it's foolish to react physically without getting more details first. Afterall, you can't go around accusing somebody of something like theft. Again, the original comment was about people asking if you were using a legit copy. That's not accusing anyone of anything. That's asking. Originally you said, A question like that is nothing more than a veiled accusation. But that's flat out wrong. Sometimes people ask because they actually want to know the answer. |
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| But that's flat out wrong. Sometimes people ask because they actually want to know the answer. That is not wrong and somebody who sticks their nose into business that isn't theirs usually, at least, gets it broken. |
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| Might be. But different developer communities will just banish you lifetime if they have proof that you are using illegal software. A developer is meant to follow the basic ethics (and as an Indie YOU are the developer, not some programmer in a big company who is the one who has to take the responsibility and do the decisions -> are the actual developers) And thats legit behavior especially in boards like this here. Who wants to give support to someone who might potentially have an illegal copy of the software sold or offer it to others for free? |
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| "how come you saw this movie? its not out at the cinema's till tomorrow." is a valid question to ask someone who says "meh seen it" A> i got a dodgy camcorder online B> remember i went to the states 6 months ago well it was out there then C> its a remake and i saw the original french black and white one without subtitles D> i want to see it i just DON'T want to see it with YOU edit E> ive got a region free dvd player and i imported the dvd from the states as its out on dvd now over there it used to be a time that by the time any hollywood film hit blighty it would be on retail sale not rental it was just the ntsc issue stopping alot of grey market imports |
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| Who wants to give support to someone who might potentially have an illegal copy of the software sold You are somewhat changing the argument. A pirated version of Blitz wasn't in question. "If" a person is using a pirated version of 3DSMax is not a concern to anybody on the Blitz forums. |
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| Ginger: F> Saw a sneak preview |
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| I don't think 3dsmax would have been half as popular with over 250,000 licences sold if students hadn't used pirate copies at home and provided a skilled workforce after leaving college. When I was a student in england in the 90's there was no educational discount, and you didn't have lengthy access to workstations at university. The university itself could get an educational licence for about $2000 but a student couldn't. Here in the US a student version of 3ds max is under $200 For under $400 you get 3ds max, Combustion 4 and a couple of other Autodesk apps. So there isn't much excuse for it now. I'd have jumped all over that as a student in the UK. They had $4000 grants instead of loans back then. Do they do student discounts in the UK now? |
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| F> Saw a sneak preview G> Tap your nose, give a theatrical wink, and say "Warez there's a will, there's a way!" |
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| I'd be a bit annoyed if i had went out and bought 3dMax, and i thought someone round here (i already know some people do) was using a pirated version. Would the reaction to the reaction be different i wonder, if it was ablitz product that was being pirated? Anyway, i don't really care too much, that point just popped in my head. |
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| chances are just low that in a community where most are even to stupid to press F1 to read the docs someone has the money (and dedication) to fork 4000 USD on something where you can do about nothing without hundreds of hours of documentation reading. thats most likely the reason most are accused to use pirated versions. |
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| Here in the US If you have a business you can lease 3dsmax for about $110 a month which works out at close to the yearly upgrade price. Not a bad deal, you need an limited liability company to qualify. Some people spend more than that for their cable tv, phone and internat combo package. Oh, and you can include that as an operating expense in your taxes too. |
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| how many books on 3dsmax maya et all are sold to people with dodgy copies? some books are better than the manual that comes with the program hell there is even a range labled as the missing manual or words to that effect but i doubt book publishers pay autodesk etc a royalty cos a vast majority of their sales are generated by people wo didnt buy the official product |
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| Correction: 3dsMax 2008 is $5,390.00 AUD. Yes but that's in Australian Wood Dollars, not in real money. Um... That would still be $5,011 USD. |
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| If you think (or even know) someone's using pirate software, your best bet on a public forum is to just ignore them and not offer any assistance if it bothers you. There are so many people with no respect for the law around that if you do anything else, you'll just get someone calling you a liar, telling you that you must have broken the law because "everyone does" or telling you how they'd like to punch you on the nose. Yes, it's a sorry indictment on the modern world that being honest and expecting others to do likewise is some kind of a threat to others and a liability to yourself , but that's my pragmatic solution for people who don't want to get embroiled in nasty wars of words and worse. If, on the other hand, you really don't give a flying fig, or even enjoy illiciting such responses, then by all means. Don't expect to win any converts though. |
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| People talk about morale and Piracy they all fault mongle. no we want freedom. we want to be able to sellect everything in our lives for a fee :D Forgot.. pirazy like other things i stronlgy please dont. Cause you will probably get a extra program for free too witch maby steal your banking card... :D and police maby lock you upp too.. (in sweden at least) in the promecy contry you get electrich shook and organs donated in other contrys.. its a hard piracy world today. (was better on amiga time) |
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| i wounder when goverment in the world will respect human rights laws. (over imateral law.) |
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| Yes, it's a sorry indictment on the modern world that being honest and expecting others to do likewise The irony (or hypocrisy) is those words are said by somebody who is selling a direct ripoff of Rush Hour and selling a Casual Game Hacking utility. I can remember a time when people who wrote game hacking utilities were prosecuted (still should be IMHO). |
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| The irony (or hypocrisy) is those words are said by somebody who is selling a direct ripoff of Rush Hour and selling a Casual Game Hacking utility. I can remember a time when people who wrote game hacking utilities were prosecuted (still should be IMHO). Well there's a nice lil ad hominem argument to take the tone of the thread down a lil more, from none other than Mr "I Don't See How I Would Be Arrested If I Simply Broke Somebody's Nose" himself. (No, the irony of this post is not lost on me. Still...) |
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| I don't think it'd work the way you expect it would in my country. From a wiki on Australia's laws of self-defense:"In some states with Criminal Codes, such as the Australian states of Queensland and Western Australia, provocation serves as a complete defense to the range of assault-based offenses." |
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| i can see that being abused by alot of people with anger management issues (or those that cant accept responsibility for their own actions) "all i did was ask if he slept with my sister, then he head butted me." id call being headbutted an over reaction and class it as assault but if i knew i was in some tin pot law zone where instead of liable/slander laws being used a fist or a face were my answeres id defo have a dig in at my own shot or ten |
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| @Ginger I agree, it is open to abuse. But sleeping with your sister isn't a crime (unless she is underage). It is different to accuse somebody of a crime. I am not sure how people justify being above the law and thinking they have the right to go around accusing people of crimes. Asking somebody if they are commiting a crime is the exact same as accusing them of a crime. It reminds me of the mentality of the witch trials. We still see it today and we see how falsely accusing somebody of a crime can destroy the life of the accused person. Here in the USA, we have seen several cases over the past couple years like this. |
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| We still see it today and we see how falsely accusing somebody of a crime can destroy the life of the accused person. Here in the USA, we have seen several cases over the past couple years like this. i agree and thats a whole new moral thread that isnt tech related so wouldnt last five minutes here my initial sister post never hinted bout underage or anything just a civil question with a blown out of all proportions headbutt answer to me a violent response is an admission of guilt "did you sleep with my sister" headbutt "are you telling me you could actually afford 3dsmax youve always told me you were skint" headbutt (ok he could always be 'skint' cos he was saving up for it and living a lean lifestyle) |
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| Gotcha, but generally wouldn't you be the one headbutting somebody for sleeping with your sister? |
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| thanfully i dont have one but i do recall some over protective brothers your nice your brothers a nob bye wasnt the first and probably not the last to say that to her |
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| To be fair, here in the USA in states like West Virginia, Kentucky and Arkansas the sister's boyfriend would most likely be headbutting the brother because the brother and sister were sleeping together. |
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| Sounds more ambiguious than clear to me. How about this then: You agree that you will uphold a standard of conduct that refrains you from personally attacking others, regardless of their beliefs and/or ideas. Doesn't get much clearer than that. No, I meant the people running the company had to shut it down. Yes. That's the general idea behind bankruptcy. They were not shut down because they were using pirated software. They shut down because they were unable to pay the fines. You think so? Yes. It's also been my experience, and not necessarily because of malice either. In organizations above a certain size it is practically impossible to enforce most license agreements. The law in this case is set up so if you make something, people must agree to pay for what you've produced. Your understanding of copyright and patent laws are somewhat disjointed. Darkhearts daughter is CLEARLY infringing on Disney and Mattels intellectual property, by reproducing an unauthorized illustration of the likenesses of characters she does not own the rights to.Since her illustration is probably not satirical or educational it isn't even protected under fair use. Why does this forum even have a General Discussion. Because we don't have Off Topic anymore, and nobody wants these types of discussions spilling over into the more, shall we say productive forums? I agree, it is open to abuse. Which is probably why Australia is such a nice country, and everyone is so nice to each other. |
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| Jesus this made me laugh... I would be willing to bet my life on the simple fact that 99% of the above posters have at least 1 illegal copy of something on their systems, be it a song, a sound file thats actually under copy right by some one or something bigger like an application. High Horse Much ? |
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| Oh, I totally agree. |
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| when i had a speccy i didnt tape to tape games but i remember my brother ammassing a vast collection of games for the amiga from school (i probably would have too if i actually liked anyone i was at school with) with regards to music piracy it took the moral ground of if i was in a band id want to get paid and i wont get paid if no one bought my stuff but i also thought stuff the lables for each album sale they lost due to napster they gained via some pre-schoolers tweenie bopper outfit so they never really lost money (the bands did) so i oftimes buy their cd's when i see them live as they get a better cut at gigs than via retail even if the cd costs less for me to buy |
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| If you're going to invest £n in a professional product (whether 000's, 00's or whatever) I just don't see why you wouldn't take advantage of the official support forums. It's where you're likely to get the best responses to your questions. I guess it's this which sparks alarm bells when a query is posted on a programming forum especially from an unestablished user. Even though we make our own choices there's a human trait which doesn't like other people getting away with it. Other people follow a 'live and let live' policy or 'innocent until proven guilty'. Anyway, Skidracer made it clear that BRL are happy to host queries from people on other products so, I guess, it's up to the individual to choose who to help and who not to. |
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| I read the first 20 or so posts in this thread, then skipped the rest, so this may have already been pointed out. But this is one thing that jumped out at me... Reactor said this: People should be allowed to inquire about which version he has and but they should be allowed to ask And I have to say, no you shouldn't be allowed to ask. It is none of your frackin' business where I get a piece of sftware, unless that software was made by you and you have reason to believe I did not pay for it. It is none of your business where he got his software. If you want to ask him what version he has because it affects the possible answers you gave him, like a feature not supported in one version that is another, that is fine. But if you want to ask what version he has because you don't believe he paid for it, it is none of your damn business. Don't answer him if you don't want to, but openly accusing someone of pirating software is just lame. |
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| Right Would be BRLs business and ban him if it was illegal as they otherwise can be made responsible if someone answers him a question related to the product. |
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| Maybe BRL are a bunch of Captain Jacks. Sources (Cough, cough, Interpol. Cough) tell me that that devious Sibly fellow downloaded Blitz Max from piratebay.org a few days before it was released. |
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| It is none of your business where he got his software. If you want to ask him what version he has because it affects the possible answers you gave him, like a feature not supported in one version that is another, that is fine. That is the worst logic I've ever read. Why is one thing okay and the other not? By your definition, both pieces of information are none of my business. Why do I have the right to ask about one topic to affect the answers I give, but when it comes to the question about the legality of his software (which also affects the answers I give) I'm not allowed to ask because it's suddely not my business? That makes zero sense. Don't answer him if you don't want to, but openly accusing someone of pirating software is just lame. I agree, but because you skipped over the thread, you missed where I said people should be able to genuinely inquire. The key word is genuine. If I asked you if you had breakfast this morning I'm not necessarily accusing you of having breakfast. I'm asking you if you did or not. The same is true if I ask you about the legality of a program. I can ask because I really want to know- not because I think you're a pirate. |
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Reactor, why do you think you are above the law and you and you alone have been selected and endowed with the right to go around accusing people of crimes? |
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| LOL... That's like Vader's long lost twin brother ;) Duffer, perhaps when someone around here actually starts doing that we'll have the answer to your question. |
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| I don't understand the locking Two users who should know better were taking cheap shots at other users. These forums are about respecting each other, beginner programmers and non english speaking users should be welcome here instead others feel it necessary to be overly opinionated and generally unwelcoming. Sorry to have to lock your thread reactor but unfortunately moderator say is final, so please do not reopen the thread topic again. |
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