Why 3dWorld studio so expensive?
Community Forums/Developer Stations/Why 3dWorld studio so expensive?
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| Hi all, I sometimes use milkshape, maplet, decorator and slimShady3 for modelling in spare time. Except milkshape cost us$25, others are free. Does 3dworld studio has special features (other 3d app. don't have them) so that it cost us$119.95? Do they have some discounted price in some special season? Thanks in advance. Sammy :) |
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| Well, the standard edition is the same as the builder edition you just don't get the extra textures, models and a printed cd and it only costs $79.95. http://www.leadwerks.com/index.php?page=purchase.htm [edit]What you already have(milkshape for example) are 3d modellers. 3D World Studio is a BSP GameLevel, Map constructor with the sole purpose of designing game levels. |
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| I see. Then it would save us us$40. However, milkshape could also be used for designing game levels (according to the tutorials) Does the current version support animated objects in designing game levels? (similar to shaking trees in Terrain Ed.) Thanks Sammy :) |
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| Does the current version support animated objects in designing game levels? (similar to shaking trees in Terrain Ed.) Not to sure really. I don't think a mesh will animate while in 3DWS or when exported to the game engine. I don't know if 3DWS exports everything as one big mesh or keeps everything seperated during export. Your best bet is to post on the official forums at leadwerks to find out. |
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| Try maplet free on this site as well if you're stuck. |
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| Or DeleD: http://www.delgine.com/index.php?filename=product_deled&menus=off |
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| wow, didn't realise it was that expensive. I thought it was about $40!!!! One of my clients offered to get me a licence if I thought I'd find it useful, but I didn't see anything that I couldn't do easier and faster with my current tools. It is WAY better than Maplet though, which makes probably the ugliest meshes possible. It could really do with some kind of triangle/edge turning optimization algorithm to make better cleaner meshes. |
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| 3D World Studio is an environment modeler. It is not intended to make guns, characters, or animations. The program handles brushes (bsp objects like Hammer), meshes (detailed objects you place in the scene), terrain, and lighting. The program is compatible with Blitz3D, DarkBasic Pro, Torque, Half-Life, Quake, Half-Life 2, and 3D Game Studio. The following scenes were created in 3D World Studio:      Last night I came up with a method to handle texture mapping and lightmapping on curves better. This will be in the next patch:  |
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| I don't think $80 is expensive considering the licensing costs of other editors that do pretty much the same thing. Ever looked up the licensing fees for Hammer? |
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| if it was 5 bucks some little kid would complain |
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| Hey Sammy - two things... (1) If you have CShop 3.1 you may be eligable for an upgrade to 3DWS. (2) You can't use Singularity and 3DWS together they are not (as far as I am aware) compatible. IPete2. |
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| Hi Halo, As there are different versions, I would like to ask 5 questions: (1) Could ANY version of 3DWS import and export .csm? (2) 3DWS early Adopter = 3DWS standard edition 3.58 = next version of Cartography shop 3.1/4? Or, 3DWS early Adopter is a seperate product which is different from 3DWS standard edition 3.58? (3) Does the current version support animated objects in designing game levels? (similar to animating trees in Terrain Ed.during designing level) (4) Singularity work with ANY version of CShop and 3DWS? (5) At this moment, what do you recommend to buy: 3DWS or CShop? (Some people said in the official forum that CShop is no longer updated in future) "3D World Studio is the next evolutionary step from Cartography Shop. It is currently in the Early Adopter stage, with a full release due final quarter 05." Quoted from http://cartographyshop.thegamecreators.com/?f=3dworldstudio Thanks in advance. Sammy :) |
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| (1) Could ANY version of 3DWS import and export .csm? The latest versions of 3DWS can import .csm. I have no plans to add .csm export. (2) 3DWS early Adopter = 3DWS standard edition 3.58 = next version of Cartography shop 3.1/4? Or, 3DWS early Adopter is a seperate product which is different from 3DWS standard edition 3.58? 3DWS is at version 5.39 and is no longer considered "EA". (3) Does the current version support animated objects in designing game levels? (similar to animating trees in Terrain Ed.during designing level) No, but you could create an entity for that tree, then replace it when you load the scene with an animated model. (4) Singularity work with ANY version of CShop and 3DWS? Singularity was designed to work with CShop 4. It could be updated to work with 3DWS. See this tutorial: http://blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=51660 (5) At this moment, what do you recommend to buy: 3DWS or CShop? (Some people said in the official forum that CShop is no longer updated in future) 3DWS supports many more features and is a much better program. |
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| Hi Halo, Does those mean that singularity could work correctly with 3DWS? Thanks in advance. Sammy :) |
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| A number of people have been asking about that. It would be pretty easy to set up the Singularity entities to work with 3DWS. I am working on an engine template for DarkBasic Pro right now, but maybe I will set one up for Blitz after I finish. In the meantime, Peter Caddock is probably the best person to talk to about the code. |
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| That's IPete2 to those who don't know. Peter Caddock is his secret identity. |
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| ha ha ha ok I admit it... I am he. Thanks for that John! ;) If I make any progress in that direction I'll keep the forum posted - it is not something I have too much time to investigate at the moment. Sammy, ask Halo for an upgrade for 3DWS - it is more stable and built from the ground up to be a more powerful tool - as long as you dont want to use Singularity as the main engine for your work. If you do then stick with CShop. In the meantime, take a good look at some of the images on this thread - they are very impressive indeed, there's a lot more to come from 3DWS users. IPete2. |
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| I see. 3DWS is undoubltly powerful. Those screenshots are similar to those in Unreal or hl2 (VERY IMPRESSIVE). As a potential customer, the more we interest in 3DWS, the more we want to know about 3DWS before making correct buying decision. For Mr. Halo, (1) "I am working on an engine template for DarkBasic Pro right now" There is certain there will be "Singularity for DBPRo" (100% sure) "but maybe I will set one up for Blitz after I finish" maybe = 50%, Do you mean that: (a) There will be "Singularity.bb for Blitz3D" in near future (within 1 year?) ,or (b) there is no guratanee that there will be "Singularity.bb for Blitz3D" (50 % certainty) ,or (c) There will be "Singularity.bb for Blitz3D" in very distant future (5 years later or more) (2) Assuming there is "Singularity.bb for Blitz3D", will it have the SAME quality as "singularity of DBPRo"? or with lesser effects? (3) "3D World Studio is the next evolutionary step from Cartography Shop" cartographyshop.thegamecreators.com/?f=3dworldstudio 3DWS is the next evolutionary step of CShop. CShop: can open and save .csm 3DWs: can open .csm, CANNOT save .csm Just like to say: Word 2003 is the next evolutionary step of Word 2000 Word 2000: can open and save .doc Word 2003: can open .doc, CANNOT save .doc? Why there exist such compability of 3DWS and CShop? Are 3DWS and CShop not developed by same Halo? As a beginner, "Singularity.bb for Blitz3D" is very handy and convenient. Once you finish your level in 3DWS, you just go directly Blitz3D to run Singularity.bb to see your fps running!!!. There is no need to start everything from scratch for beginners. Other Blitz3D users, what do you think? (Please feedback) Thanks Sammy :) |
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| Why there exist such compability of 3DWS and CShop? I'd say it's safe for me to answer this on my own. CSM is an old and deprecated format that is not near as good as the 3DW format. Word 2003 is the next evolutionary step of Word 2000 Word 2000: can open and save .doc Word 2003: can open .doc, CANNOT save .doc? Word 2003 can open old .doc files, but it will be converted to the new .doc format (which is pretty much what 3DW is -- the new CSM format). The only difference between your example and 3DWS is that the actual extension changed when the program changed. When you save a new .DOC, do you think it will work in the old Word? It won't. Likewise, if you save a new map in 3DWS, do you think it will work in the old versions? Understand? |
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| Hi Noel Cower, Yes, I understand we could select save format in Word 2003. If we select old format, new 2003 features would be removed, but could be read by old Word Processor Prg. Is this true? File>Save as "save as type": Word 6.0/9.5 (*.doc) , Word 97-2003 & 6.0/95 - RTF (*.doc) Reference link: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/assistance/HP051860741033.aspx |
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| If we select old format, new 2003 features would be removed, but could be read by old Word Processor Prg. Is this true? Yes, but this isn't a word processor, now is it? Supporting an old and deprecated format just so users can use it with an outdated and incomplete engine (Singularity) is a bad idea. Your best solution is to update the engine to support the 3DW format. That, or use Cartography Shop. |
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| A couple of the screenshots are actually a 3DWS map running in Half-Life 2. (a) There will be "Singularity.bb for Blitz3D" in near future (within 1 year?) ,or (b) there is no guratanee that there will be "Singularity.bb for Blitz3D" (50 % certainty) ,or (c) There will be "Singularity.bb for Blitz3D" in very distant future (5 years later or more) I'll create a framework to load scenes and set up a few entities this month. I am mostly doing promotional and integration work right now, just to make the program nicer to use for beginners. (2) Assuming there is "Singularity.bb for Blitz3D", will it have the SAME quality as "singularity of DBPRo"? or with lesser effects? Probably about the same. I just want to show how to load a scene and set up a few entities. I'm a little more comfortable coding in Blitz3D, so that has an advantage there. 3DWS is the next evolutionary step of CShop. CShop: can open and save .csm 3DWs: can open .csm, CANNOT save .csm .csm is an obsolete format. Why would I want to save to it? Just use 3DWS. |
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| tell me more about this Singularity thing... i've been busy, and missed the last staff meeting... sorry... also, what is the CShop to 3DWS upgrade path and costs... thx btw, those shots look reeeeaalllly nice Josh... --Mike |
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| Mike, Josh Klint aka Halo has been building engines and editors for a long time noe - I first came across this talented chap in around 1999-2000 whilst he was building Inca a DB engine (I think). Cartography Shop - his editor created .csm files which were able to be loaded by 'Singularity' and interpreted on the fly by this fab Blitz fps engine. So flares, particle entities such as smoke, fire, water (with a really neat sort of cubemapping effect), audio obstructed by objects (i.e. it went quieter around a corner...really it did). Singularity is an engine developed by Halo about three years ago. It runs strictly in the Blitz 3D domain. It was used to create a few very neat very impressive demos (not sure if a full game was done using it). Check out the www.leadwerks.com website videos for some examples. Halo released the complete source code to Singularity a long while back. I have sought permission to make it available to those who were new to B3d and those who were asking for it here: http://www.smartscreenuk.com/Singularity301.zip Halo continued to develop the code and I developed some extra code to allow the use of doors (placed using CShop). By using CShop and Singularity you can very quickly develop game levels. You build in CShop and add entities such as doors, flare, flaming and smoking torches, water fountains etc. load it into Singularity and voila an already working level for you game with collision, lighting also built in. If you haven't seen it - you should check it out, we can all learn quite a bit from it. Josh has moved on now to 3DWS a completely new format (although it looks similar to CShop - what works works I guess) - what the future holds for this format is anyones guess. IPete2. |
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| thx IP... yeah, i've been following his series of Singularity demos... did that ever get to the point of being a game engine? as far as loading levels from a modeller... i think Rob did a good job of demonstrating that in his Cubed demo a looong while back... he loaded and parsed the level in much the same way you described... Rob taught me how to do that a while back :) yeah... i'm familiar with that. Is that what Singularity is... and do you know if Josh plans to use this as the basis for his game engine that he is currently working on... thx again... --Mike |
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| Don't know what Rob was using to develop levels - Singularity was developed in tandem with CShop and the integration was very tight and very impressive. I could set something up in CShop then save it and watch it happen in realtime inside Singularity. My point was Josh was creating a commercial level editor which generated exciting in built feature set levels for a public domain game engine (both of which he developed) as well as having the ability to add your own (whatever you could dream of) into both - yourself. As it stood at version 4.x Singularity was pretty powerful as a game development engine, and I believe it could certainly be used as part of something bigger. For my part I added doors/lifts/moving platforms to the main Singularity engine, others must have added their own stuff no doubt. By the time Josh was done he had physics, portals, moving/animated objects/ shadow objects, realtime lighting effects (such as gun flares firing down all the walls on a prelit corridor), particles, you name it... It was quite unlike anything else I have ever seen created in Blitz, certainly better than anything I have seen (on any Blitz forum). Singularity was quite far developed, but I know Josh wanted more - and believed that B3d could not deliver what his ambition required. So B3d was only another stepping stone to something bigger. What that is is for Josh to know and us to guess. As for anything Josh is currently thinking about or working on... Singularity will no doubt play a role in as much that what he learned there will help him do even better next time - I will be watching closely - I am pretty sure it won't be in BlitzMax or Blitz3D - but a BlitzPlus/Open GL hybrid...hmm... IPete2. |
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| CShop users can upgrade to 3D World Studio for $59.95: http://www.leadwerks.com/index.php?page=purchase.htm The old Blitz3D code helped me learn some techniques, but I am writing my new engine with pure OpenGL. |
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| thx Josh... --Mike |
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| Thanks Halo, IPete2 and others: I am looking forward to the new "Singularity for Blitz3D". By the time it appears, I would re-consider my decision. 3DWS and singularity are both wonderful!!! Thanks a lot. Sammy :) |
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