Do not buy 3D Canvas
Community Forums/Developer Stations/Do not buy 3D Canvas
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| Do not make my mistake in buying 3D Canvas. While it is a good piece of software the writer of it does not deserver your money, and I'll tell you why. I felt there were some issues with mouse control that needed changing to make using it more natural so I made them in the suggestions forum. RB replies to tell me he thinks his way is more consistent and didn't feel my points were that important. A discussion ensued, no swearing or personal attacks, with RB still disagreeing no matter how I demonstrated the problems. I then decided to set up a poll to see if anyone else felt as I did, which ended with RB deleting the poll and the entire discussion as he wasn't interested in negative feedback. Whilst I can't get my money back I can do my duty in pointing out the way I was treated and warning others. We can boycott companies who do not respect their customers and hit them where it hurts, their pockets. I would also suggest to Mark that he remove the demo of 3D Canvas from future Blitz3D CDs and cease to support people who treat their customers like this. |
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| Can I suggest GameSpace from caligari? |
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| I used to use 3D Canvas. The GUI is utterly awful. Reminds me of that cruddy 'object modeller' that came with Amos3D. |
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| hit them where it hurts, their pockets. Actually, it hurts more to first stick spears in their kneecaps and then tear off their scalp. It works suprisingly well on the CEO's. |
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| Ok I'll buy Zbrush 2 |
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| Actually, it hurts more to first stick spears in their kneecaps and then tear off their scalp. It works suprisingly well on the CEO's. Don't put ideas into my head while I'm still mad ;-) Can I suggest GameSpace from caligari? I've tried trueSpace, I have version 3 somewhere, I hated it - couldn't ever find the icon I wanted. Is gameSpace any better with regards to its interface? |
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| @Ken Lynch For the money you can't beat Milkshape 3D if all your going to use it for is to make just game models! If you need something a little bit more powerful and all... I would suggest LightWave 8.0 Which is what Im' learning to use right now! It's got an interface very similar to that of MilkShape 3D and that ends up working pretty dam good for me! However though... I understand that LightWave 8.0 is also not what you call a cheap 3D Modeling/Animation package either!!! But it's alot cheaper than some of them though! |
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| Cough... You are not joking about the price of Lightwave, no wonder there are so many cracked copies! Does Milkshape do SDS? |
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| I would say yes! Download MS3D and try it out and see what it can do for you! I don't think you will be disappointed at all! |
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| liogtwave is dman good value its not some trashy piece of software like milkshape. its used exotensively in the filmfx industry , quality I tell ya. |
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| Why, because the author does not alter his development plan to suit your whims? |
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| Of course the softwaredeveloper doesn't need to obey his customers whishes, but he could at least rejected the proposal in a more polite way instead of deleting threads, removing polls, covering his ears and go "I'm not listening to you!"... That is just plain rude. |
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| Thank you, Sweenie. He also does not then go on to continue to abuse you on your personal e-mail, this guy Richard is a real jerk. Halo, it wasn't about that he wouldn't change what he was doing, it was that I could demonstrate to him that the way he was doing it was wrong and could be done better. His method of control over the object relied on the way the view was orientated, he saw the mouse pad as not only analogous to the XZ plane but that up/down was Z left/right was X - which works fine until you rotate around your model and then everything gets reversed on screen. I have had the software for over a year, but as I got more experienced I began to find its limitations and made the developer aware of them, he was not prepared to listen and didn't give any real reason why. He then went on to attack my contribution to the community as being negative, self-serving and worthless (all words used by Richard in his e-mails to me). Does anyone know where Amabilis is based? I'd certainly like to know if there is any equivalent of Trading Standards that I can report him to. |
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| "I would say yes!" And I would say no. SDS is subdivision surfaces; Milkshape does not do subdivision surfaces modeling. My recommendations (ie. my opinion) for low cost 3D art is to use Wings3D for modeling (free, multiplatform, SDS modeler,) Ultimate Unwrap for texture mapping and file conversion (among other things, the only tool which supports skeletal animation AND imports b3d format,) and CharacterFX for animation (exports to b3d file format.) Meanwhile, if you have the money to buy Lightwave, I would say make sure to consider Maya. It's not too much more and some people (eg. me) rate it the best 3D art tool in existence. |
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| "I could demonstrate to him that the way he was doing it was wrong and could be done better." Why not write your own editor then? It sounds like he discussed it with you, and then you tried to create alot of negative publicity to get your own way. |
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| Why not write your own editor then? Thought about it but haven't got the time. It sounds like he discussed it with you, and then you tried to create alot of negative publicity to get your own way. I don't know what gives you that idea. The negative publicity I have created has come after discussions have collapsed into disarray, not before. I feel that if you can demonstrate real weaknesses in a product, and propose small changes that would overcome those weanesses then they should not be simply dismissed by the author. |
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| halo, you seem to miss the point, he's causing the bad publicity, not because he didn't get his way, but because the author of the program deleted his poll because he didn't want to listen to critisism. |
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| @jhocking "I would say yes!" And I would say no. SDS is subdivision surfaces; Milkshape does not do subdivision surfaces modeling. I wasn't totally sure about the SDS thing! I just assumed MilkShape 3D had it because it seems to have alot already! My mistake then joe! Meanwhile, if you have the money to buy Lightwave, I would say make sure to consider Maya. It's not too much more and some people (eg. me) rate it the best 3D art tool in existence. Hmmmmm... I've heard alot about Maya... But I've never tried it out yet! Maybe I'll Install it tonight and see what everyone is talking about! If Maya ends up to be better than LightWave 8.0, I'll use Maya then! Hey jhocking... Do you have Maya? If so... Tell me a little bit about it and how it's helped you out with your work and/or projects!! |
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| halo doesn't miss the point at all... he understands exactly what has happened... ... he's just from the "let em eat cake" school of thought, and his sympathies seem to lie more with the developer than the customer... don't delude yourself josh... most people here could write their own editor. just give eme a decent set of specs to aim for, and let em power up the ole c++ development tool of their choice... ... but they'd much rather be working on their game, not constucting the tools they need to make assets to use in their game... ... that's why they come to you (people like you) in good faith, and plop down their money... so that you can make a tool that they can use... not so they can be abused and denegrated and told to write their own tool... ... hey, that they can get all that for free, allthough i guess that abuse is more effective if you have to pay for it. ignore your customers, tell em to go write their own tools, and you'll soon be writing limmericks for your own amusement... the word, once it is out, travels as fast as light... --Mike |
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| I don't know the specifics of this case but I can see the POV of the 3D Canvas creator. Ken suggested an enhancement which was rejected, he then continued to push the issue and RB got fed up. I got news for ya folks, software coders and designers are people too, you push them and they push back - and starting a poll to support your position is pushing. (I'm not saying either side is "right", frankly I have no idea) |
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| I think it isn't a good idea to use this forum to slender that product. Simply don't use it anymore. And if someone s'gonna ask you, tell him your opinion. |
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| slander... that's a pretty strong word... and if proven to be true in a court of law, can be cause for recoup for damages, real or perceived, suffered by the plaintiff... (wow, listen to me... Perry Mason) besides, his statements would have to be shown to be false, and malicious in nature to be called slanderous... besides, where else should Ken voice his experiences... after all, this IS a forum... and developers are indeed people... and as such must learn to avoid the pitfalls that get most people in trouble... you may not want to believe this... and it an old axiom... but the customer is always right... always remember this, and you will do well in business... forget it... and you will wind up working for someone who hasn't... --Mike |
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| @Dr. Who: I love the animation tools in Maya. The modeling and texturing tools are very strong too, but other apps like 3D Studio Max and Lightwave also have really good tools for those tasks so that isn't really a selling point. The animation tools in Maya however, especially Paint Weights for rigging and the Graph Editor for manipulating keyframes, are the best I've ever used. That said, there are plenty of people who like Lightwave best of all, etc. I'm not necessarily trying to convince you, just want to make sure you've tried all the options before plunking down a hefty chunk of change. |
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| "slander" maybe was the wrong word, sorry for my poor english. I got this from "blue suede shoes". U:l What I meant was: you may write about your bad experience concerning a product, but maybe you shouldn't call for a boycott. |
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| ... agreed. --Mike |
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| you may write about your bad experience concerning a product, but maybe you shouldn't call for a boycott. Well when that person uses all his resources to bar you from speaking on his forum just because you had a criticism of his software, and disagreed with the need for any change. And, this isn't the first time the guy has just blown off ideas simply because 'He doesn't understand the use of it' even when EVERY other piece of 3D software has that feature. The author abused his power to censor me, so I am using my consumer power to make people aware of the way I was treated. I don't want to sit around passing comment when asked, I want to let people know that the author of this software has his head shoved firmly in the sand and, if I can, cost him some sales in the process. Believe me, you did not recieve those emails, I did, and they were rude and personal. I would do the same for any company that did this to me and I am sure that many here would do the same in my position. |
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| Of course you are right from this point of view. |
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