What do you think of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

Community Forums/Common Room/What do you think of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

Yue(Posted April) [#1]
The question is focused on that in Russia, they are accusing them of extremists and terrorists.


While in Germany, it is stated that the days of Jehovah's Witness meetings were declared as religious holidays.


skidracer(Posted April) [#2]
How about in Colombia? In New Zealand they are nice people with from with what I understand to be a harmless belief system.


Matty(Posted April) [#3]
They are a mostly harmless sect of Christianity who sometimes have trouble with medical procedures for refusing blood transfusions.

The evangelical Christian church, especially the fundamentalists, see them as heretics that will burn in hell like 99 percent of the human population.


GW(Posted April) [#4]
Foolishness!
Only those who chose passage on the comet Hale-Bopp will see salvation!


(tu) ENAY(Posted April) [#5]
Try talking to them, no seriously, invite them in explain your views with logic and reason. You will frighten them with your logic, they will NEVER come back. :)


Dan(Posted April) [#6]
From my experience of God, i would say that no earthly religion understands God truly.

There is a piece of Truth in one, and another piece of Truth in the other religion, and next piece in the third and so on.

While it is valid to say that "In/With God, everything is possibile"
if you HATE then you really "DO NOT UNDERSTAND GOD"

For God your hate really does not matter, but for you it can be disasterous, especially if you can't let go of it.

And when you follow the reasons why the hate is built up, then you will recognize that before you hate, you have JUDGED.

The sequence goes like this "Seeing (count hearing in, it is same as seeing), judging, believing in it, and then hating."

So to understand the devils work in here is your Judgement.

But only few people understand what is really being judged. No, it is not what you saw or what you think you heard.

You see, God is Creator of perfection. With it follows that (for human understanding): Death is impossibile in him, there is no loss in him, sacrifice is impossible, only happiness and joy is in him and Hate is alien to the thinking of God.

So what is hate ?

It is a Judgement that God can create something that is not perfect. And Imperfection is readily seen in TIME.

This is impossible in God, but then if God promised you a Perfect life, where is it?

I know how hard is to understand this, especially if you forget that you were created in his image, and that you are able to heal everything you see.
To HEAL, but choosing to hate instead ?

And forgetting is only temporarily.

There is a way of asking the universe to show you the truth of God, but for that you must be willing to see his perfection.


(tu) ENAY(Posted April) [#7]
I see glorious obfuscation.


Dan(Posted April) [#8]
There is better analogy to what i have wrote in my post, above:

It is like when you (as blitz basic programmer) choose to make war games.
And then you look at what you made, and then you say "Look how God is cruel and merciless"

Yes, how glorious and obfuscating is it ?


(tu) ENAY(Posted April) [#9]
I don't understand what you are saying to say. So to avoid derailing this thread, I won't be saying anything else.


Dan(Posted April) [#10]
i havent attacked you enay. (infact i started writing my answer before i saw that you have posted, and have edited my post and added the obfuscating thing at the end.)

I understand that you do not want to understand.

i said, spread love. nothing more and nothing less. it is the opposite of hate.

so for the jehovah witnesses, whatever wants you to think and to make you to hate them, don't listen to it, but stop hating and start loving.

edit:
i see now, my first post is just under your post, but i wanted to address yue and not you enay.


Yue(Posted April) [#11]
@skidracer
Here in Colombia they are friendly and peaceful, they are seen in a luggage carts with magazines that they offer for free. My curiosity is because I was able to attend a meeting on the 11th to open where the death of Christ was celebrated which I was told was carried out in many countries according to the Jewish calendar.

Speaking of their beliefs, one of the things that most strikes me is that they say that Christ is already back and was crowned in the skies in the year 1914. If you analyze his argument seems very successful as they make an account from a certain year to a certain year And everything seems right.


Dan(Posted April) [#12]
@yue here in germany they are peacefull too, trying to find members for their belief. Like scientology.

i have just googled for what their belief is, and found this

From it, few of their described beliefs fits, but few does not go with my current view of God.

I do understand that their belief system may clash with other religions.

That's probably the reason why everyone, who cant accept their belief, will automatically talk against them.


Matty(Posted April) [#13]
Since we're openly talking about religion I thought I'd throw this idea out there, it's not a new idea but is taking up more and more of the philosophical thought space over time.

It goes a little like this:

1. Human beings are smart. We developed computers and can make games like 'the sims' as well as basic rudimentary 'AI' and can model and forecast many difficult problems.

2. Technology is always advancing and bar any major catastrophe we should reach a point in the not too distant future (maybe not our lifetime) that we can create a very good simulation of our own universe with real conscious AI inhabitants.

3. To the inhabitants of such a simulation - we would be 'God' or 'gods'.

4. Given the high probability that we will one day be able to produce such a simulation ourselves that probability that we too are also in such a simulation is quite high too.

5. If we are in a simulation then it stands to reason that, much like an onion's layers, the simulation directors above us are also in a simulation and so on up the chain.

6.The question then becomes: Are we at the top of the chain (atheism) or are we at some level below the top of the chain (theism/deism).


Yue(Posted April) [#14]
I think the right approach is, if there are no extremists or terrorists, so Russia wants to get them out of the country, it is against the international agreement, and violating the Russian constitution.

On the other hand I can not avoid the comment of Matty, if we are in a video game, the god (programmer) that we believe, has a great amount of bugs.


Dan(Posted April) [#15]
Yes, but you are here to fix the bugs.

The only trouble is, when you try to fix the worlds problem in the world, then you are fixing them while you act in the Game and not in the Source Code.

And while you can stop shooting in the game, the code is programmed to kill.

Change the code, not the world, the rest will be done by God. - Programmers wisdom applied to the reality.


Floyd(Posted April) [#16]
In my experience Jehovah's Witnesses are harmless but annoying. They knock on my door and try to persuade me to believe nonsense.

I once accepted a free copy of The Watchtower and actually read most of it. Among other things there was a section on moral issues. For example is masturbation a sin? The answer is that the physical act is not but a sexual fantasy is. I can't work up much enthusiasm for a philosophy that deals in thought crimes.

They don't show up at my door nearly as often as they used to. Yet Wikipedia says they print 62 million copies of the public edition of The Watchtower every month.


Rick Nasher(Posted April) [#17]
The views of them are ok for the most of it, not all is good though and they are too blinded, like most believers to see and/or change it. The religion contains some very nasty extremist Americanized bits and pieces which are polluting it, just as well as with the Roman Catholics they revolt against. Bad thing is they try to hide the nasty bits until you got sucked in. They shun people who try to bring these matters into discussion. I followed them from close up for a while as one of my previous girlfriends got with them.

Also I felt they like to see disbelievers fall too much for it to be proper. Other than that they're ok and like most religions they believe they are the one and only true believers/practitioners. But that's a too much credit they're claiming for themselves.


Hmmm, what if..
this is all a training ground to become the most perfect form that we can be. It being spiritually, mentally, physically, technologically or in any field. What if we as a species are still alive 200 million years from now(which is nothing on a cosmic scale). What will we be capable of doing then? Will we too be creating universes??


RemiD(Posted April) [#18]

From my experience of God, i would say that no earthly religion understands God truly.


let me rephrase this for you :
from your fantasy of what you believe is god, blah blah blah

@Dan>>maybe consider the possibility that your beliefs/views are just your perception, your choices and not the ultimate reality ?


To me there is no god (in the sense of a controlling/judging entity) but there is a thought world which can be interacted with (via your thoughts (inner voice/vision/feeling)) and which can influence the shared objective world (at least the way that you perceive it and your mood and therefore your choices and the way you act and therefore how you are perceived by others people/organisms (your "vibe")), and like with the organisms in nature, there is no good/bad, there are just entities/organisms who do what they want/must to survive/grow/reproduce...
So you can be as bad as you want, or as good as you want, and there will be consequences, but not provoked by a judging god but rather by the others entities/organisms/things in your environment.


i said, spread love. nothing more and nothing less. it is the opposite of hate.


i say : do what you want :D, but there will be consequences... (so don't be stupid)



Jehovah's Witnesses


i don't care about what they say/do as long as they don't annoy me... (but they are still nutcases imo)


Dan(Posted April) [#19]
I never said that God is controlling. (if the God (of which i am talking about) were really controlling you would be you in your body and writing whatever you write against life. do you recognize the contradiction ?)


i said, spread love.




i say : do what you want :D



at least one agreement :p, in the way that you have the choice to do good or the opposite, but only love will get you further.
In a way, if you would like to understand God, that is what he said, too:


I am the alpha and omega



when people recognize that only love and peace will last, then they will understand God.

There is only one way to understand God while they'r still at war: it is the point when they recognize that war is useless. Else it is not possibile.

Each reason for war is a reason against God.


why i'm talking about God while this topic is about Jehovah witnesses ?

well, there is a deeper meaning behind all this, maybe you will understand it later or never.

I have pretty liberated thinking, (there are still few learned annoyances, but at least i have recognized them).

Hate may arise here, but that is not lasting long (maybe half a hour,at worst). Im kinda aware that hate is leading to nowhere, and this is as well a guide.

Let me get to the extreme, (im not very good at explaining so the extreme example will probably ring the bells):

Imagine, Satan would exist. And imagine He would come to you and tell you that it is right to hate, in this example "Jehovah witnesses".

Would you believe him ?

Ask yourself, what is the Devil asking of you, to do ?
and ask yourself, what does the evil benefit from, when he makes you to hate ?


Now look at your position:

You are looking at the leaders of the town, and they do dislike JW'S.
(actually they dislike their different beliefs)
So they are using marketing stategies to convince you and others that they are unwanted there.
(edit: but they oversee that they are humans too, and are free to believe what they want)

But from your point of view they appear as real threat, if you would believe these leaders (which you have made them leaders ... )

At the end, who is the one who is ACTing ? Who is the one who is joining in HATE ?

There are two possibilities to act in this world:

When you hate, you will send them to the Devil, (and later you will suffer guilt).

When you love, you will simply tell them, "No thanks" - and they will disappear by themselves.
And you will be happy, because you shared happiness to yourself and to them.
(maybe they will come again, but then be happy to have a reason to tell them a friendly "No Thanks")


Always ask : "is the devil asking me to Hate ?" , then do the opposite.


RemiD(Posted April) [#20]

when people recognize that only love and peace will last, then they will understand God.


again, reality contradicts your views :
some fungus or parasites are older than humans (and still exist today, whatever your "god" think about it), but what they do to others organisms would be what you consider "bad"/"evil" but to them it is not, they just do what they do to survive/grow/reproduce.

The idea of good/bad love/hate is arbitrary and can't be defined objectively, it depends which kind of organism you are and what are your requirements to survive.

So basically you are either ignorant about some organisms existing in this world, or in denial (i bet a mix of the two)

The lion must stops to eat antelopes, since it is not a loving act. (do you realize how insane this sounds ?)

Go hug a tree for me please.



Imagine, Satan would exist.


he does, i am his servitor (just joking), "satan" apparently means "the adversary", and put in context this was at the time of jews/christians fanatics, so if we accept this definition, satanists are not "bad", they just did not agree with their religious bs/arbitrary rules.

Personally if the "devil" would come to me and tell me to hate JWs, i would answer to him that i do what i want and that as long as JWs don't annoy me, i can probably tolerate them (until they become so fanatic and so annoying that i will have no choice to either leave the place or get rid of the crazy leader)

btw you are apparently still making assumptions about a "hell" and "heaven" which are christian/muslim concepts, but do not exist in others religions/views of the world. But you seem convinced to know, so just consider this : if you were born/raised in a region were these concepts did not exist, do you think that you would believe in them (hint : no!)


Dan(Posted April) [#21]
im not making any assumption. i'm using descriptions which (i think) are commonly known .
And using them to describe the difference between thinking of a man and thinking of God.

(the difference in thinking, at least as i view them here).



again, reality contradicts your views :
some fungus or parasites are older than humans (and still exist today, whatever your "god" think about it), but what they do to others organisms would be what you consider "bad"/"evil" but to them it is not, they just do what they do to survive/grow/reproduce.

The idea of good/bad love/hate is arbitrary and can't be defined objectively, it depends which kind of organism you are and what are your requirements to survive.

So basically you are either ignorant about some organisms existing in this world, or in denial (i bet a mix of the two)

The lion must stops to eat antelopes, since it is not a loving act. (do you realize how insane this sounds ?)


Im not denying anything btw but let me ask you a question about the quoted things:

From who have you learned this: From God or from the World ?

Apparently, most people look and learn from the World.
And that means not from God.


RemiD(Posted April) [#22]

From who have you learned this: From God or from the World ?

Apparently, most people look and learn from the World.
And that means not from God.


ok so you pretend to know the "words of god" better than anybody else and nobody can verify them ? Very convenient for you, but not very scientific/reasonable.

Now a question for you : before the idea of a one god creating/ruling everything, there were several gods (the god of jews/christians (and probably the god of muslims too) was apparently one of these gods) but you choose to disregard that.
And in others parts of the world, there were several gods too, usually representing what they observed in their regions, because at the time the natural borders separated the people in regions.
So all the people at the time, who had nothing else to do but to think about these spiritual concepts because there were no books, no tvs, no radios, no internet, are wrong according to you because you know better the "words of god" (that we can't verify).
Maybe you are just delusional and convinced of a fantasy that you built yourself in your mind ?


Dan(Posted April) [#23]
wait why are you using the beliefs from the religion to build up your questions ?


i'm not talking about religions. (even if i use the examples from the bible or other books ... im still not talking about religions)


but there is a better question:
how eager are you, to find out the truth ? do you really want to see the truth ?

im talking from my experience, which i can share only through words. its my own experience.

There are no evidences but from my own experience.

You can have your own experience if you wish so. but then you will be in a situation, that nobody would believe you.
Unless they have experienced something similar.

Thats why i have said, "God is opposed here in almost everything". ALMOST.

And you wont get any evidence for yourself until you are not willing to change your mind about God.


God is not a Ruler. He has his own set of rules (understand this like what on earth the gravity is for the apple), which he never breaks because he is not able to go against himself.

The question which should follow, is: if God is not a Ruler then who is it that makes me believe it ?

How willing are you to see the Truth.

Do following,

"Close your eyes. imagine as if the universe could hear your thinking thoughts and say to it:

(mentally, obviously - silent with the voice in your head)
Please show me the Truth about myself."

And you will be scared.

unless you are willing to see that fear is not of God.


btw iv had similar discussion with one person in a chat, i could not tell the difference between you two :p
part from that you are not hitting on allah.


So all the people at the time, ... , are wrong



according to me, i'm trying to teach and to learn something, and not to make anyone wrong in his thinking.
if you think i do, then you must have a wrong thinking.


Dan(Posted April) [#24]

So all the people at the time, ... , are wrong



here is a side question, (edit: for everyone)

would you rather hold on death, misery, poverty, bakteria, hate/war, jealosity and other negative viewed events, and be Right.

or be Wrong, and let God show you the truth ?


either answer is ok.


RemiD(Posted April) [#25]
misery, poverty, hate, war, jealousy, negative, bad, are subjective terms... That's what you still don't get...

The views i have proposed here are not extravagant and can be verified by anybody.

Anyway ! this was a great demonstration of hijacking and off topic !


Dan(Posted April) [#26]
So all your questioning was to bring


great demonstration of hijacking and off topic !



??


xlsior(Posted April) [#27]
The question is focused on that in Russia, they are accusing them of extremists and terrorists.

While in Germany, it is stated that the days of Jehovah's Witness meetings were declared as religious holidays.


Some countries don't like having their dominant religion questioned, while others have more freedom of religion.

Russia has a habit of declaring things they don't like illegal: for example, even acknowledging that gay people exist in their country is against the law, because they claim you're illegally 'promoting' it.

Anyway, I don't believe that any jehova-specific holidays are considered national holidays in Germany or anywhere else in Europe where everyone has time off, though. (Most of western Europe has national holidays on the main christian holidays, but most companies will allow their employees to take of one or two additional holidays from work on top of those at other times of the year, to accommodate other religions and religious beliefs)

There's still limits though, e.g. in Germany the 'church' of Scientology is considered to be an abusive corporation/sect masquerading as a religion, and you won't get hired in any government job if you're a member of it.

Anyway -- the jehova's witnesses are a fairly small group:
Jehova's witness: 8.2 million

Jewish: 15 millions
Christian: 2,200 million (about half catholic, all others make up the rest)
Muslim: 1,226 million
Buddhist: 363 million
Hindu: 828 million
Agnostic: 639 million
Atheist: 150 million

http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/most-popular-religions-sects-images/2014/05/01/id/569022/

In Europe most people just ignore the jehova's -- overall they are considered fairly harmless, albeit a bit annoying. (Their religion requires its members to actively try to convert others and 'save' them, so they go door-too-door a lot trying to convince people to join their religion. Most other religions don't go out of their way to get you to join)


skidracer(Posted April) [#28]
I suspect Christian population has half life of < 20 years judging by it's demise in this part of the world.


BlitzMan(Posted April) [#29]
Most people are so docile they believe what they are told.The only religion i follow is that of the chicken.

It tastes like everything.


RemiD(Posted April) [#30]
Related to JWs and others religious fanatics, it always makes me laugh when after a hard day of work or a great day of relaxation and enjoying the day, i go check the mail and i find flyers with an offer to be saved by jesus christ or allah because apparently the world is insane and going to end soon. What the **** is your problem people ? You have a limited time and energy, why bet everything on a maybe (a most likely not, considering the hundreds of different views of the world / religions which exist on earth)