V143 'Lion' update now up!
BlitzMax Forums/BlitzMax Programming/V143 'Lion' update now up!
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| Hi, A BlitzMax update for MacOS Lion is now available from the product updates page. This fixes an issue that prevented MaxIDE from running on Lion, and adds a work around for another issue to do with going into fullscreen mode on Lion. Note that you should still do release builds on the *lowest* OS you want them to run on - ie: if you want an app to work on Tiger or greater, build it on Tiger. Lion is still so new (well, the xcode/sdk side of things is anyway) that I would still recommend building apps for release on Tiger or Leopard, and not Lion, but you can at least now code/develop on Lion. |
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| First of all sorry, if I'm missing the obvious here, but does this update include any fixes for compiling an application with OS X Lion as the target? I.e. am I going to be affected, if I compile my apps on Leopard, but want them to run on Lion? Are there any changes to the compiler? |
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| Great that the fix for Lion is in, but this is the first I've heard that I need to be building on the lowest target OS. I have now upgraded my Intel Mac to Snow Leopard, so does this now mean I've probably lost a big chunk of my potential market? I also have a PowerPC Mac that is running Tiger, so is my only option now to have people with Intel Macs with Tiger/Leopard to run the PPC version via Rosetta? What happens if I try to run a Universal binary with a Snow Leopard Intel build and a Tiger PPC build on an Intel Mac with Tiger or Leopard? Would it try and run the PPC version instead, or attempt to run the Intel version and fall over? Sorry for the slightly off-topic questions. |
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| I know its only four hours ago, but has anybody tried compiling in Lion and running in Snow Leopard yet? I'm going to attempt to install SL alongside Lion later today so if not, I'll do it myself. |
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| I've just tried compiling on Lion... unfortunately there seems to be a problem. When compiling, it says: sh: as: command not found Build Error: Failed to assemble <blahblah>.s Process Complete I'll look and see if there's a bug report yet... Boz. |
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| I've just tried compiling on Lion... unfortunately there seems to be a problem. Just hit this one myself - its because you have to download and install XCode 4 - mine's just finished and its cracking on 4GB! Pain in the arse!! Why is everything so huge for MacOS?? When compiling, it says: sh: as: command not found Build Error: Failed to assemble <blahblah>.s Process Complete I'll look and see if there's a bug report yet... Boz. |
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| By the way, i just posted in bug reports as it looks like brl.oggloader is now failing under Lion. http://blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=95382 Last edited 2011 |
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| Thanks Mark. Yes this is also news to me about compiling on the lowest target machine. I only have one Mac so I keep it updated to test my game on the latest OS but of course still want it to run on older Oses. What happens if someone tries to play a game on Tiger/Leopard that I compiled on Snow Leopard? |
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| Sounds good. Question though, what you're offering now is either: a) works on Tiger/Leopard/Snow Leopard but not on Lion, or b) work on Lion but nothing else Is this an Apple-enforced division or a blitz problem? Why can't it support all of these? |
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| So.... am i the only one having audio problems in lion with 1.43? |
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| Erm, so a lot of questions here, but no answers. A little frustrating because there are some important issues here. Would be nice to have a response please. |
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| Hi, > sh: as: command not found You need xcode installed to use BlitzMax on MacOS. You can download xcode from the app store - make sure to get the Lion version. > By the way, i just posted in bug reports as it looks like brl.oggloader is now failing under Lion. I've just uploaded a new v143b that addresses the ogg issue. > Yes this is also news to me about compiling on the lowest target machine. While cross compilation for different OSs is theoretically possible (to a degree anyway) I will not be attempting it. There is a lot that can go wrong given the major changes made to each version of MacOS and given the minimal amount of documentation of how all the compiler/SDK stuff works at the lower levels, I will not be tempting fate here. Besides, you really, really should be testing on all versions of MacOS you intend to support anyway - blindly assuming an app will work on all version of MacOS from Tiger to Lion is not IMO sensible regardless of how it was built - so you should have older OS versions installed at least for this. Last edited 2011 |
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| Oh lovely, looks like a few of us are going to have the nice task of a complete re-install of Tiger, followed by a dual boot with Snow Leopard, to then upgrade that to Lion (or even triple boot, if that's possible). Although I can understand the reasoning for having access to all the different versions of an OS for testing, this isn't as easily done with Macs as it is with PCs. On the PC side of things, I have XP and Vista installed on my own PC, and access to a Windows 7 machine for testing on that OS as well. It also does not appear so critical which version of Windows is used to develop on. In fact, it would appear that it's better to develop on Vista/Win7 (the latest OSes) than on XP, because these versions of Windows force you to do things 'properly', which will work under XP without any issues (that we've seen so far). With Macs though, there aren't so many Mac owning friends around, if any, and I would imagine that most of us only purchased a Mac to produce their game for this market as well. As Macs are not cheap, chances are we only have the one and do not have access to another one nor the funds to purchase another one. So it looks like every time a new version of OS X comes out we'll need to create a new partition for it. I'm sure this is all common sense really, but this is the first that some of us have seen it mentioned that we need to be using the earliest OS for a release build. Just feel it should have been made clearer somewhere before most of us overwrote our Tiger installations. |
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| Hi, Actually, I may be talking bollocks here. It's certainly the case for archives (modules), so I have to make sure myself to build BlitzMax on the lowest OS when I do updates, but I think I may have fixed the case for apps when I did the 10.5 fixes. Not at work now so I can't check, but I will ASAP. None-the-less, you should still have every OS you plan to release stuff on available for testing! Yes, it's a bit of a drag, but just blindly releasing stuff and assuming it'll work on earlier OS's is IMO not a good idea. The Mac partition tool should make this easy as it can resize partitions on the fly. |
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| None-the-less, you should still have every OS you plan to release stuff on available for testing! Yes, it's a bit of a drag, but just blindly releasing stuff and assuming it'll work on earlier OS's is IMO not a good idea. The Mac partition tool should make this easy as it can resize partitions on the fly. I agree. I have Windows Vista, Windows 7, Snow Leopard, Lion, and German XP (See below) running on my Mac under VMWare.SO yeah, German XP - not only is it a good idea to test on every OS you want to release for, its useful to test on non-English systems too. I had an issue caused by some third party (and non-BRL!) code which meant my game (Magicville) worked perfectly well on an English OS, but it fell flat on its face on anything else. I hadn't tested for that, neither had BFG. The upshot was that I lost a LOT of sales in the critical first few days when sales are at their peak. I don't like to think about how much, but I reckon it was at least a few thousand dollars. Test, test, and test again. |
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| So it looks like every time a new version of OS X comes out we'll need to create a new partition for it. Well, Apple only supports two versions of OS X at a time - the latest and its predecessor. In other words, with the release of Lion, they've dropped support for Leopard and now only support Snow Leopard and Lion. Tiger has been gone for ages already, and since Mac users, unlike Windows users, usually upgrade rather quickly to 'the latest and greatest', I don't see a need why one should support an operating system that is not even supported by its maker anymore. What you should make sure of, however, is that your software runs on 10.6.6 and that it meets the requirements for getting into Apple's Mac App Store. The rest is secondary at best. |
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| Well, Apple only supports two versions of OS X at a time - the latest and its predecessor. Maybe so, but that doesn't mean there aren't people running an older OS. I'm fairly sure there are people with PPC Macs and their latest OS would be Tiger, as PPC support was dropped after that. Tiger has been gone for ages already, and since Mac users, unlike Windows users, usually upgrade rather quickly to 'the latest and greatest', I don't see a need why one should support an operating system that is not even supported by its maker anymore. That's an assumption. Do you have any evidence to back that up? What you should make sure of, however, is that your software runs on 10.6.6 and that it meets the requirements for getting into Apple's Mac App Store. Assuming my only portal of choice would be the App Store. It is one I intend to use and will meet that requirement. But if I feel there is a market for those with Macs with older OSes, then I will also be selling via my own site, e.g. for PPC users. So I guess my current option is to stick with Snow Leopard and dual boot with Lion - has anyone figured out how to do this yet? As for anything older, I'll have to see what the demands are. If Mac users do tend to upgrade (at least those with Intel Macs) then I probably don't need to worry too much. |
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| I've checked out Blitzmax 1.43b today and it now compiles and runs perfectly in Lion. It also ran perfectly when I transferred it to Snow Leopard too. \o/ Thanks Mark for fixing this up quickly. Proper happy, me. Oh by the way - since this is a thread about a new Blitzmax update we should probably keep to a minimum the minutiae of who's got what installed, and stick that stuff in another thread. I don't see anywhere that 1.43b has been announced so let's stick to the topic at hand - 1.43b is up! |
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| I feel the issue is being ignored and averted here. What you're basically saying Mark is there is now a split in the OSX market between Lion owners and all previous owners. Blitz can now target Lion but nothing else, or everything else and not lion. That's a big problem that's going to lose a lot of customers (of BMX). It's basically like saying oh yes, you can create stuff that works on the latest o/s but more than 50% of users won't be able to use it,and oh by the way you can otherwise target older users and the other 50% lion users won't be able to use it, take your pick. This didn't seem to be an issue before with Tiger/Leopard/Snow Leopard so why is Lion different? |
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| This didn't seem to be an issue before with Tiger/Leopard/Snow Leopard so why is Lion different? From what I gather out of it, it's always been his tought to compile with the lowest, it just hadn't been communicated very clearly before. Apparently the more immediate lion issues appear to be due to the attempted switch to a different compiler when using the xcode 4 package, which turned up some compatibility problems -- that was what was different. |
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| @Imaginary: Yes that was my understanding but then Mark said: "I may be talking bollocks here". So I guess we need to do some testing. Compile in Snow Leopard or earlier, and test on Lion, then do the opposite. The issue was with full-screen games I believe. |
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| I've already done it. everything works fine. more testing can't hurt though. |
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| I only have one mac should I upgrade to lion or is it better to keep snow leopard? is there a way to run both on the same mac by dual booting or vm? Last edited 2011 |
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| You can dual boot, or VM. I have Lion and Snow Leopard on my iMac... though my SL install went belly-up after three days and refused to boot, so I just reinstalled it today. I'm quite sure my hard drive is failing though, as I had the exact same problem with I installed SL and Windows with Bootcamp. |
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| BTW Big Fish Games are going thru their catalog and informing developers if their games does not work on Lion: Gunslinger Solitaire - Lion Compatibil​ity The title is built on Power PC (PPC) architecture, which Apple no longer supports. Until this compatibility is resolved, we will flag your title as not 10.7 compatible for the customers who have adopted this OS. At the time I only had a PowerPC Mac Mini and got away with the Intel build/Universal... looks like I'll have to find the source out again and recompile - should I use the latest BlitzMax 1.43b when I do this? |
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| should I use the latest BlitzMax 1.43b when I do this? Well, give it a test obviously but I haven't found any problems. |
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| @GfK: Thanks for testing. @therevills: So you made an intel build on a PPC? Wow, I've never done that. I made a PPC build on my PPC Mac, and Intel build on Intel Mav, then made the Universal Binary on my Intel Mac. So I'm hoping that's OK. The Intel builds have been made on various Oses from Tiger through to Snow Leopard so I hope they still work on Lion (I'll guess I'll find out soon enough from BFG if they fail). I may nave to get a new Air with Lion on to test them out and keep my 4 year old Macbook Pro as Snow Leopard. |
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| You probably want to "rebuild all modules" as well. Mac tends to link things statically, which can be nice because your app either works or it doesn't, but it does require you to build for the system you want it to run on. |
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| I built Gunslinger on the PowerPC Mac, and the Intel Macs use to run them in kind of an emulator mode... For The Bloobles and Pirates I created an Univeral Binary on the Intel Mac thanks the Brucey's work :) Since Apple are no longer supporting PowerPCs I guess I dont need the old PowerPC Mac Mini now... |
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| Well here's the thing. Not long ago (<1 year) I made an update to Fairway and Unwell Mel for BFG and I only provided Intel builds thinking that most customers would have moved on but there were tons of complaints and so I had to make a Universal binary. I did the same for Spring Bonus. Basically a ton of people still have them, even running Panther. |
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| Well I've just built GS on the Intel Mac... I had to use BlitzMax v1.34, due to the changes in BMax I couldnt compile it using a newer version and I dont think its worth updating the code. I didnt bother with an universal binary because Apple is no longer supporting PowerPCs... |
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| Well here's the thing. Not long ago (<1 year) I made an update to Fairway and Unwell Mel for BFG and I only provided Intel builds thinking that most customers would have moved on but there were tons of complaints and so I had to make a Universal binary. I did the same for Spring Bonus. Basically a ton of people still have them, even running Panther. Well, that kind of confirms my reasoning for still supporting Tiger on both Intel and PPC Macs, and not just Snow Leopard and Lion. Looks like a Universal Binary is still the way to go for the moment. Which brings me to my next question. My Intel Mac currently has Snow Leopard installed, so if I compile for Intel on that, and assuming that this will work on Tiger, can I then create a Universal Binary with the PPC version built in Tiger? What we end up with is a Universal Binary with one binary compiled in SL and the other in Tiger. I could test for this, but my PPC Mac is elsewhere at the moment. A situation I could remedy tomorrow and test. I'm beginning to think I should re-install my Intel Mac with Tiger, and then triple boot it with Snow Leopard and Lion just to be sure. |
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| Yeah my most recent UB are Tiger (PPC) and Snow Leopard (Intel) and that seems to be fine. All the multi-boot stuff sounds scary... |
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| Compiling bah.base64: Building Modules Archiving:base64.debug.macos.x86.a Compiling:source.bmx fasm2as failed: Failed to create output stream Fasm2as failed - please contact BRL! Process complete Xcode 4.1 build 48103, BMX 1.43b |
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| Ah, I had to adjust permissions for the folders. |
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| adjust permissions for the folders. I always have to do this when I copy files/folders across the network from a Windows PC to a Mac... very annoying! |
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| Hi, Locking this in an attempt to prevent FUD. |
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