BlitzMax is CRAP
Archives Forums/General Discussion/BlitzMax is CRAP
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| Simple as that ,, convoluted arse C no better than C ,, stick max where the sun don`t shine !!!!!!!!!! Documentation=non existant or gobbledygoop at best shame on you silby website=3 hour Dl times on a 10Mbit connection Get a decent server 30second waits for page searches is unaceptable |
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| Gee, you sure know how to win friends and influence people don't you! |
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| Give it a chance - my programs these days dont look any more complicated than my BB ones - the difference is that you can get at the 'under the hood' stuff if - and only if - you want. The docs DO stink. I've never waited more than a few minutes for downloads. |
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| Only used the BMax demo here, but I gotta agree on the docs if they're still like that in the latest version, I dont see what was wrong with B3d/B+'s docs as they have a superior setup imo in design & layout. Get a decent server 30second waits for page searches is unaceptable From what I can recall, the server doesnt index the pages for fast searches, so it does the slow approach and searces the entire database instead, I just use Google instead with the "site:http://www.blizbasic.com" tag included. As for Bmax itself, I quite liked my trial with the demo, but like others I'm waiting for the 3d module to become released before making the purchase. |
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| @maverick - That's a very eloquent and well informed review...Well done! |
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| Shouldnt this be in the General Discussion forum? I've seen many other posts like this moved there. I'm literally pwning with bmax, yep, I can learn anything in bmax thanks to everyone here and my determination. Atleast when I get frustrated with it I dont post like maverick. hahaha, you need anger managament lessons? or are you just having a fun go? perhaps you only let your anger out in text? ;) |
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| @Maverick I think BlitzMAX is great. Sure the documentation isn't as good as it could be, but it's not horrible. Plus the community here is great, I get all my silly newbie questions answered very fast. I came here with only a week or two's experience in coding PHP, and I'm already flying with blitzmax. That should tell you something I think? Maybe that you're an impatient little brat? And the website works fine for me, except the searches, where I use google instead. |
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| All languages are only as good as the person using them. In that case you must be ....!!! Seriously the documentation is appalling - what is required is an old fashioned introduction, lots of examples of simple things. What we need is a definative introduction to the language and numerous helpful examples. IPete2. |
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| The problem with the documentation is that it really isn't a manual, it's a command reference.... Which doesn't help you a whole lot unless you already know what you're doing. |
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| only think I will agree with is that the documentation is crud. Other than that, Mav is a freakin loon. |
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| No comment. |
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| Don';t listen to these guys Maverick. They're just trying to stifle you. Make more threads like this one and get yourself noticed. |
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| BlitzMax has many problems, but you will probably need to be a bit more insightful in your judgements if you're going to get yourself noticed. Except in the sense that Amon means ;) |
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| gosh I guess I'll stop using it thanks for this valuable information and I look forward to your future contributions to the community |
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| Blitzmax is in no way as convoluted as C. It's as convoluted as C++! But seriously, it's not. You've never coded in C if you think that. Also, it hides a lot of stupid DirectX and OpenGL crap from you, and gets you set up so you can get right into making 2D games. Is it perfect? Hell no. Are the docs perfect? Ha! It's still way better than coding in C though, even with the warts. |
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| If you know what you're doing you can get one hello stuff done with Max I find it move quicker making 3d apps with Max than with C and thats before the 3d module! I doubt anyone thinks Max is at its final version and update are free Sure there are some rough edges, but it all takes time... |
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| BMax isn't for newbies. It is a great language, extremely well optimized, very close to C++ in speed, and it is pretty stable. The GUI mod is great. I wish it had a "software driver" like B+ so it would not have to depend on DX, or OGL. That would truly make it an all-purpose language and perfect for general apps. That is my ONLY complaint with BMax and the sole reason I do not use it. However, I do agree that Stevie Wonder could have done a better job on the DOCs. |
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| Simple as that ,, convoluted arse C no better than C ,, stick max where the sun don`t shine !!!!!!!!!! Well you're wrong, but you're entitled to your opinion. Out of curiousity, what does C have to do with it? Except in the sense that Amon means ;) Yeah. I'd be a bit careful taking advice from someone whose been banned like 6 times... :o> |
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| what does C have to do with it? Well obviously he has no idea how to use C, and has no idea how to use blitzmax... So blitzmax == C. :) |
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| He's right about the documentation. Absolutely worthless. |
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| I think he's just frustrated... Hang in there Maverick; you'll get the hang of it.. |
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| Right about the docs, wrong about everything else... :) |
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| manual: yeah, it's as hot as 30 Kelvin IDE: too minimalistic language: great! Ppl who complain haven't really looked into it I'd say. Most ppl - I think - are confused by events vs polling, assumingly they never used B+ before. I must say, I needed a few days but other than that, the transition to bmax(gui) went quite smoothly! Other than that: you don't *have* to use it.. first try the demo, then buy it or drop it.. |
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| The language has two "problems." One is that it's a big shift from the old Bliz way of doing things, so it's confusing some people. The other is that OOP is designed for larger projects, so in toy test apps it can feel like overkill. You need faith that it will pay off eventually. And, yes, I agree that the docs are lousy. It's easier to learn from sample programs than from the docs. |
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| re docs: somewhere there is an AWESOME intro to BMax that somebody wrote. Great intro to BM & OOP. |
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| I didn't learn from docs or samples, I just looked at the module source code. Why's it so hard for everyone else to do that? ;) |
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| 'cause they are tards? |
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| Bmax is hard for a beginner with little knowledge of programming. And since blitz products are mostly known as introductory level languages for beginners and hobbyists I can see why some may be disappointed if they are new to programming and hoping to learn with Bmax. |
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| The beginners guide to BlitzMax can be found here: http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=42519 |
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| I can't hear the 'docs are bad' anymore. It is right, that the docs could be better, but with a bit of searching, reading and trying, I always got what I want. I have also learned alot by reading the source (ok, this isn't an option for the demo users) and searching the forums. But in the last time I found a lot of repeating topics. Is it that hard to make a forum search? Sorry, but that was a must. Btw. : Bmax isn't crap, if you understand what to do |
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| a begginer may be diapointed, but to compare bmax to C would suggest a little experience in both. For some reason i doubt he has any real experience of either of these languages.. bmax is what you make of it..., as for C being convoluted, perhaps - but its still a very powerful and useful language.. BlitzMax has some weird additions, and its not as easy to learn as the original blitz - however the language seems to produce tighter code, its cross platform, modular, supports both static and dynamic libs....the only real fault is the documentation... Max2D could have been better, but you do have the option to modify it or develop your own system.. Your entitled to your opinion, but why would you post your opinion here?..... |
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| what docs.... Anyway I think bmax has really improved my coding abilities and also taught me OOP, or atleast how it works. |
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| Bmax is hard for a beginner with little knowledge of programming. I came here with only a week or two's experience in coding PHP, and I'm already flying with blitzmax. Challenging perhaps, but clearly not insurmountable. |
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| I started off as a Blitz3D fanboy, moved to being a C zealot (and I still am one, actually, considering I still use it for a lot of work where speed is crucial and ASM isn't neccessary [and it typically never is]), and now I use BlitzMax and C side by side. Now as far as maverick's original statement about BMax being more convoluted than C, I can safely say that he knows nothing about C, or at the very least has zero experience using it. |
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| Bummer of an opening statement for a post, Maverick. Oh well. If you wanna learn, post your questions! The people here are really cool. Good luck! |
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| I'm feeling a little rundown and frustrated today because ive been porting my MaxGUI app from Mac to PC. There are so many inconsistencies and bugs you have to work around to get the same behavior on both systems. An not little things either. I can't get a context menu at all on the mac! Oh.. well, i guess thats what you get when you try and do cross platform stuff. |
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| There are so many inconsistencies and bugs you have to work around to get the same behavior on both systems. Post them in the bug reports section. If memory serves one of the goals of MaxGUI was consistent behavior across multiple platforms, thus any deviation from this should be considered a bug. Ask Brucey. |
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| I must admit to being a little dissapointed with the syntax of Max... I was hoping for a more Pascal-ish syntax. I find its the clearest language to visualise code in. IMHO. |
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| BlitzMax is CRAP C - Creative R - Robust A - Amazing P - Powerful :) |
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| I was hoping for a more Pascal-ish syntax. Pascal is evil, end of story. |
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| I'm not really sure why some people say that bmax is hard for newbie programmers.. I'm a newbie programmer and its easy for me. I guess I'm an odd case though. |
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| I like Max :-) Sad things about Max : * The documentation is missing (as good as, in many cases), thus initial learning curve can be steep in some areas. * MaxGUI really needed beta testing before release * OO could do with enhancements Happy things about Max: * It's cross-platform (Yay!) * Once you get the hang of the basics you can churn out lots of code really quickly. * It's extremely open, allowing the community to help improve it. (Yay for the community!) * It is OO if you want it to be. (Biggest Yay!) ;-) |
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| Pascal is evil, end of story. Noel and I agree once again! :) |
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| Pascal is not evil. Just extremely old ;-) Pascal -> Modulo -> Modulo 2 -> Delphi and Oberon |
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| Evil. Pure evil! It must be roped and beaten! |
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| With regards to download speed Maverick, you might want to uninstall all your spyware :) Seriously. I have many years of experience as a professional game programmer and I find BlitzMax great. If the docs don't cut it, the nice people here in the forums are usually up for helping you out. |
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| BlitzMax docs need some serious work. Perhaps we could get some community thing going? I know there is the wiki etc, but perhaps we need something a bit more definite. Something more like a real book. |
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| What we need is simply 2 or more minimalistic examples about every command in every module, in superstrictmode and as local/modular as possible. So, the examples should show what a command does, and nothing else, everything additional creates noise in the perception of the reader. |
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| Perhaps we could get some community thing going? Nope, this is BRL's job. I'm not doing it for them. |
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| Something more like a real book. Get 'Thinking in Java' Yes it's about Java, but it's free, professionally authored, and by far most of the topics covered (in the first half of the book anyway) apply equally well to BlitzMAX. |
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| Whenever you discover something you didn't know or couldn't find in the Docs you should add a page to the Wiki. |
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| We should do a lot. But as its all community driven I would like to see a more "we support our community" support from BRL first. Blitz products only exist because the community extended it that much and still we are kept like unimportant kiddies. |
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| But as its all community driven I would like to see a more "we support our community" support from BRL first. A valid point. Blitz products only exist because the community extended it that much and still we are kept like unimportant kiddies. Blitz is a product oriented company, not a solution oriented one. |
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| I think maverick has gone into hiding after being shamed. |
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| Not really. If it would be a product oriented company the product would be thought to its end and done to the end, not stopped in the middle (half hearted OO implementation, documentations that are extremely bad structured and in many sections totally insufficient. the event and hook parts as worst case example with function names and thats it). Blitz3D already is an example for not product oriented. Who the heck would let a language like Blitz3D stay without DXTC support although it is needed, many times requested and industrial standard for years?? Not really product oriented but mood controlled ... *Have no interest in doing it so I don't do it, no mather how much it would help my product* I won't know how many users are tempted to other game languages just because of missing DX7 features in Blitz3D. Toms Render to Texture DLL shows 2 important features DX7 supports but Mark did not implement although the hardware is capable of doing it without much impact on performance since quite some time now. |
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| Blitz 3D rules - The king of languages. I need say no more - everybody loves it - even the Germans - they set up websites and everything - even named some sausage after it. Might be something to do with it being called Blitz - but there you go. Woof-it till it hurts. |
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| If it would be a product oriented company the product would be thought to its end and done to the end, How do you mean? They have! (half hearted OO implementation, documentations that are extremely bad structured and in many sections totally insufficient. the event and hook parts as worst case example with function names and thats it). First of all, BlitzMAX was never meant to have a full blown OO implementation, and second of all, BRL hasn't yet released a product that some people haven't thought was poorly documented. The fact that it (appearently) doesn't live up to your expectations and/or specifications is exactly why BRL is a product oriented company. If they where a solutions company you would have a hotline you could call to get specific changes made on a day-to-day basis. Like IBM, Sun Micrososystems and Oracle. Blitz3D already is an example for not product oriented. Who the heck would let a language like Blitz3D stay without DXTC support although it is needed, many times requested and industrial standard for years?? Product oriented companies. Like Microsoft for example. |
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| Product oriented companies. Like Microsoft for example. I loved that response, FlameDuck :D |
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| Bah.. you bunch of babies! :) I say if you have an issue, email BRL. email them often. Then you wont have to put up with the BRL fanboys who will defend them regardless of how valid your points are. However you should be a bit more intellegent with your email, than the first post in this topic. :) |
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| That's a good idea RifRaf, but they never respond. |
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| The fact that BRL doesnt have good documentation only hurts BRL's sales. It doesnt hurt the fan-boys, nor does it hurt me :) I learned BMAX without the documentation because of this wonderful community, but BRL shouldnt think people will all learn the same way I did. Oh well, they are the ones losing, not us. Only thing worse are Blitz3D Fan-boys!!! Take your linear progression and shove it where the sun dont shine ;) |
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| Matt: Sure BRL loses, but in the end, we, the customers, will lose out. I not enough products are sold, the product/company will die thus depraving us of an excellent product. So in some twisted way it's in our best interest to keep the product selling; ie. helping new people out here, etc. |
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| Is there a way to change the doc without it being overwritten next docmods/syncmods? |
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| Can we get an official 3D Engine wrap now? |
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| No I don't think you will see it in 06 at all, so if you are forced to use 3D, consider irrlicht |
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| Or my engine, which is coming along quite nicely. Of course, the problem with licensing my engine is that it's made for me. So that'd require private negotiation of various things that I would rather not go over in a 'BlitzMax is CRAP' thread. |
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| He does have a point on the web site! It really could use an overhaul and I know I dread the seach feature. |
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| The documentation issue does seem to be one of the single biggest gripes with a lot of users and one can only hope that in the fullness of time BRL will be able to address it. Working for myself I can appreciate the time constaints on Mark and Simon though - especially when it comes to the docs. In my last job I was responsible for a 700+ page technical reference manual and that alone took probably 50% of my time for the best part of 18 months to*. With only the two of them working full time on Blitz it's amazing that they manage to produce the work they do that we all know and love :) (* I do also take a little smug satisfaction in the fact that since I left they've not actually updated it as nobody else could get their heads around Framemaker!) |
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| The Docs are not perfect but name one language where they are? The Docs at present are more of a syntax guide and module reference. 'Docs' seem to be a catch-all phrase that includes language introduction for beginners and advanced language behaviours. The complaints i am reading about the Docs are more of the 'how to program a computer in general'. I am in full agreement that a BRL- beginner's guide to BlitzMAX would be a great addition. less a language reference and more of a 'how to program in general and btw, you might as well use BlitzMAX!" kind of thing. Wave did a great job in this regard already. |
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| Wave and Assari have both done great jobs. However, even referring to the docs as a syntax guide is overcooking IMO. Check, for example, addhook and ask yourself whether you would ahve any idea how to use it if you were new to programming. What flags can you set with FormatTextAreaText? Most people look at the doc with some BB or programming background but what if you're new to programming? |
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| Check, for example, addhook and ask yourself whether you would ahve any idea how to use it if you were new to programming. To be fair though hooks and callback mechanisms aren't exactly beginner topics. Most people look at the doc with some BB or programming background but what if you're new to programming? The old saying about learning to walk before trying to run, applies equally well to programming. The notion that because BlitzMAX is an 'simple' programming language, the concepts it addresses must also be simple is somewhat flawed at best.Complex tasks are not complex because of job security, they are complex because of inherent complexity, and no manner of abstraction will create a simple and at the same time functional way to achieve something complex. |
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| To be fair though hooks and callback mechanisms aren't exactly beginner topics. Possibly true but doesn't that mean they should have even better documentation behind them? The old saying about learning to walk before trying to run, Again true, but once you get to a canter the documentation should help rather than need a forum, wiki etc. <edit> P.S. Just to say I don't expect a mickey mouse guide but something that explains what each parm is and does would be nice. |
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| @Noel "private negotiation of various things" sounds scary:D As for maverick going nuts: What did BRL expect? BRL's reputation is based on B3D. Main target group are people which are in need of a solution to compensate lack of knowledge or lack of menpower. With B3D you have a high level language to get stuff done in incredible short time. Even with missing features like DXTC, B3D is quiet convincing (enough, now bow to the mighty shader leage..B3D Fanboys). It was nice for beginners and handy for the advanced who wanted to make money with. But what is the target group for BMax? Realy feels like BRL has lost focus here. What BRL missed? To put in all the high level commands which would make BMax a real time saver if it comes to create decent 2D Games in 2006(!). Remember, BMax is sold as "2D Game programming language". If i have to hack in my own col. lib, have to wrap ODE or have to take care about single surface stuff, wheres the time saving moment? Why not use C++ and buy a 2D Engine where i know the company will add commands to make my 2D life easier? What will be added next in Max? Printer support? A submarine low band transmission relais? Anyway, if you take factor time away, BMax is genious. I see tons of customer made modules added in the next two or three years, if people arent p... off by things like lack of communication. |
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| I see tons of customer made modules added in the next two or three years, if people arent p... off by things like lack of communication. How can you have a lack of something that doesn't exist? I'm in for the printer support.:) |
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| Jeah, maybe i should think about a printer game..Printer Pong.....BEAT THAT IDEA;) |
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| The old saying about learning to walk before trying to run, Again true, but once you get to a canter the documentation should help rather than need a forum, wiki etc. I've been using BlitzMax seriously for a little over a month now, rewriting a multimedia authoring / playback application that I originally wrote in C# last year. The docs aren't that bad, you know... especially coming from Visual Studio 2003. C# has plenty of documentation online, and it can be quite difficult to wade through to find exactly what I wanted to do (mostly Managed DirectX stuff; the rest of the syntax was close enough to Java/QT to be manageable). Considering the wealth of information in the online stuff, I still needed to buy several books to get started on Managed DirectX, and even then I needed to Google a bit to find the last nitty-gritty bits and pieces. The BlitzMAX docs are reasonable straight foward, in my opinion. Berevity IS an asset. There's generally a command to do what you need to do, and these forums do have a search facility. Heck, you can even ask a question, and so long as it isn't something along the lines of: "where is the RunMyReallyCoolGameWithoutMeDoingAnything() command" type of thing, you even get answers! Go have a look at Dark Basic Pro to find some docs that really don't live up to the product. As for @Tauken's comment that BlitzMAX is a 2D game creator... we all knew what we were putting out money down for, didn't we? I've been a BRL (nee Acid Software) customer since Blitz Basic 2 on the Amiga, and I'm yet to be dissapointed by what these guys deliver. It might not be timely, but it's generally solid. Have a look at the squarking that TrollTech is generating with their move to QT4, as a point of comparison. |
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| Here is a small example of how communications can be improved: http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=57259 Mark, answered the question., but his signature doesn't say anything about Blitz. When I bought Blitz, I didn't have a clue that Mark was part of Blitz. Moreover, I still don't know anyone else that plays a role in support. It seems like a small thing but it is important that your signature identify you as Blitz Moderator or Support. Just a thought... |
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| Moreover, I still don't know anyone else that plays a role in support. Oh, come on. his username is BlitzSupport for cryging out loud! When I bought Blitz, I didn't have a clue that Mark was part of Blitz. Click 'Credits' on the main BlitzMAX page.Besides which, I really don't see how being able to uniquely identify people who work for BRL would improve communication. I don't even see why you would think you're entitled to communication in the first place. This @#!* never happens for Adobe or Microsoft. |
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| i dont get why usefull posts are removed all the time and posts like this stay tbh... |
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| LOL @ Devious... ahhhh, i've tried to avoid this long winded waste of time... but D makes a good point... --Mike |
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| I don't get why people can't be a little more specific so I have a clue what they are talking about. |
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| you still havent removed this post? and skid try not to give attitude to paying customers who are asking real questions, its not good for brl. |
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| What is the harm in asking people to be more specific. It is repeatedly called for in bug reports and features requests, I don't see why it can't be applied to criticism of BRL operations also. |
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| I don't get why people can't be a little more specific so I have a clue what they are talking about. What is there to encourage the behavior you want to see? |
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| @Flameduck, I have spoken to Microsoft Technical support on many occasions. Also, I have the Cell phone number for my Microsoft account representative. Sure I can track down the creators of Blitz by reading the help about. My comment was targeted at the fact that there presence is very unnoticeable. I have never noticed the BLITZ SUPPORT user answer a questions. I'm don't really care if you believe that or not but that is the case. Your point about not expecting communication would apply if this was Open Source. Lastly, I not saying the product is bad. However, I think website and communication need an update. Bye |
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| Heheh, I guess the n00bs just can't handle the fact Blitzmax is just too complex for them to use. > What is there to encourage the behavior you want to see? Hmm, gaylords like you perhaps. :) |
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| i'd love to get blitzmax but i rather save my cash for the (edit: ps3.) |
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| *Whistles* |
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| i meant ps3. my brain was playing tricks on me because when i was making my post, i was thinking of mgs4. |
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| website=3 hour Dl times on a 10Mbit connection Get a decent server 30second waits for page searches is unaceptable Remove the malware from your PC before accusing others of skimping. Bmax downloaded for me at 110kb/sec in just over 1 minute. Simple as that ,, convoluted arse C no better than C ,, stick max where the sun don`t shine !!!!!!!!!! I'm not quite so negative towards BMax as yourself but I do agree - there's a few elitists who take the view that if you cannot learn BMax your just a noob, Enay 3 posts up for one, but I take the view that if i'm going to work in a lower level language I may aswell use C++ and not something proprietry, BMax is a lower level language, it's just not a BASIC, and I use BASIC languages for a very good reason - and it's not because i'm too stupid to learn C++. |
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| They'd be better off getting some investors and hiring more employees. It doesn't matter how great your product is, if you just sit in your garage coding, it will never get noticed. |
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| Well said, Becky. |
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| How come I missed this rant? Has it only just been moved to General Discussion from Max Heaven? |
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| Its about time they moved this to general discussion.. tsk tsk was in bmax forum for dayzzzz :-@ |
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| I'm surprised it isn't locked. These slag off Blitz threads crop up quite often and then get locked before long. |
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| BlitzMax is CRAP So's your mother. These slag off Blitz threads crop up quite often and then get locked before long. They can't do that unless ppl start slagging off each other. Because it's on topic. Which is stupid. Everyone is stupid. Rargh. |
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| So you don't like it... fine.. just go away then and be done with it! I hear c++ calling you! shoo! lol |
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| If you have any real experience in C you will rejoice at how easy coding in blitzmax is. If you wrote one hello world app, then you would come to this forum and cry like a little child. On that note, if you had experience with C you would have probably notice that blitzmax is actually an object oriented language and then have made fun of it by calling it "convoluted arse C++ no better than C++" as it shares many c++ stl style classes and is not a procedural language like C. But I don't know anything... don't listen to me. |
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| it shares many c++ stl style classes No, it doesn't. |
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| I have spoken to Microsoft Technical support on many occasions. Also, I have the Cell phone number for my Microsoft account representative. And how much are you paying for this premium service, and how much detailed information can you get from him? A Vista release date? Your point about not expecting communication would apply if this was Open Source. No it wouldn't. First of all, it has nothing to do with whether your product is open-source or not, and second of all, most open source projects are the ones who do the most communicating. Know what's going to be in Office 12? Nope, nobody does, but you can look up what OpenOffice.org are currently adding to their products. Know what's going to be in the next version of Photoshop? Neither do I, but I can look up what's going to be in the next version of GIMP.Companies simply do not communicate such things. They are into adding real value to software - communication does not provide real value. Perfect example: Windows Vista, slated for release before Christmas, and supposedly 'feature complete' yet nobody seems to know what these features are, except for a notch up on the Fisher Price interface guidelines. |
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| ..well..I can see now where this conversation going, so before its too late..nuke them alll...:)) |
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| haha, maverick got shunted to the general discussion forum. |
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| yeah... i agree NA... D was right... why it's been allowed to continue is beyond me... we should really stop feeding this dog... --Mike |
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| This thread has probably been allowed to run so all the usually hate monger, flame bait, arguement causing members can be banned in one quick swipe :) It's quite amusing in a way. Some people complain from day one wanting a more flexible language with more power. You get one and then start to complain again. To be more sensible about the whole thing I'd say we're all agreed that the BlitMax Documentation could be a lot better. Instead of complaining though, why don't those who have a good knowledge of BlitzMax get a bit of community spirit going and set about fixing that problem. |
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| . |
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| Instead of complaining though, why don't those who have a good knowledge of BlitzMax get a bit of community spirit going and set about fixing that problem. While this is perfectly reasonable, aside from BlitzWiki and the tutorials section, how is it practical? |
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| . |
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| While this is perfectly reasonable, aside from BlitzWiki and the tutorials section, how is it practical? Because if it were done properly then BRL could distribute that documentation with BlitzMax. I'm not talking about an online version only, but fixing the current docs. Most people prefer to have the docs at hand and the ability to press F1 on any command, get a clear explaination plus a well written example of how to use that command. What wouldn't be pratical if a few BM guru's got together and sorted the docs out? |
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| @Noel, Lets pick a example: String A string is not a C style String (character array) and must be included from the stl... BlitzMax has easy to work with string class as well. (I hope you can understand my deduction) Though that comment on my part wasn't as well thought out as it should have been, snapping back with "No" doesn't really show your mastery over all things digital nor does it help me to see why my statement was so absurdly false. |
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| . |
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| ..haha..muk, nuke them man..nuke them.. :)) |
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| Could muk's insane posting spree be construed as a DoS attack? ;) |
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| um, nope, jeest sum tequila, welll, lots i guess! :) |
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| die muk, die. At least as far as posting that phrase goes. Your Blitz links thread is still very nice. Ta for that. But apart from that, please STFU. :o) |
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| Its not my fault, it was Flame Ducks last comment and now i write:D Companies have to communicate in a way poeple expect. If they dont, they lose real value $. I dont expect BRL to communicate to their customers like Adobe or an other multi billion company. Its a small company with products for indie's or hobby coders. BRL is in the leage of 3DGS or DBPro not M$. Why i think so? BRL's homepage communicates this. What happened? Weeks of silence? Only official statements if more then 30 poeple are upset? No future feature list? Google to have a Forum search (thats a running gag for more then 2 years)? Hire the FBI to find some statements about future plans (again Google for Worklogs)? They behave like big player's and need the community for a proper manual? I watch this Forum over years and other reasons for such behaviour comes to my mind. Much has done by not much men, and with quality. Does the customer new to BRL products know this? Should i care? I do, because i have spend much time and efford in BRL products and i have seen enough companies going down when changing their product philosophy. BB always stands for complex things made easy even for a bloody noob. Now it is complex thing's made easer. Remember B3D will go down more sooner then later and BRL will then stand for BMax. So i write this, that they know I am not very happy with BRL (i am quiet happy with BMax and MaxGUI). And if you think thats pointles, then you are possibly one of the guys which made SOE great:D All i want to say is: Mr.S dont forget your mojo and your roots;) I know its getting harder every year..hehe To be more constructive, at this descricption i always have a good laugh: Function SortList( list:TList,ascending=True ) Description Sort a list. The face of the guy first time using linked lists? Priceless.. So, enough whining around for the next months. BMax rocks. |
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| ..muk, nuke them all man..what you waiting for?? :)) more tequila?? :)) |
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| If anything BlitzMax will help you to become a more disciplined coder. I will be writing a letter to Mavericks mother informing her on how naughty he has been. :) |
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| CC your own mother in on that letter too. :) |
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| I'm also waiting for the 3d module and i'll be getting bmax when its out. It looks like a great language in the demo. |
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| I think what we have here are some B3D and BB fan-boys that want BMAX to follow suit. Then you have some peeps that cant stand OOP. Then you have some newbies that are frustrated with the BMAX documentation. I'm frustrated with the BMAX documentation myself, but I already took note that complaining here doesnt get me new documentation! xD So I have decided to just ask questions in the BMAX Forums whenever I'm confused, and then, get the answer. Nobody can say "RTFM" here, so I guess asking questions works out the best for the question-asker-non-manual-reader type. So quit whining and moaning will ya, MAKE A GAME DANGIT. |
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| I think what we have here are some B3D and BB fan-boys that want BMAX to follow suit. You say that like it's a negative thing. In my own personal fan-girl opinion B3D had it right, i'm not sure what market BMax is aimed at. Mark Silby said as much himself when he was writing it "Why do people program in Blitz?" in his worklogs... The problem is his answer to that question didn't reflect the reason why I use it. The only thing wrong with B3D is lack of some modern features, the product itself is great. BMax isn't comparable to B3D as it's something else, it's closer to C++ than it is to B3D - and given the choice i'd use C++. Except i'd rather use B3D. There's no saying i've not done anything in BMax or can't cope with it because I have already released a simple game with it and i've experimented more with it besides what I finished and released. I've given it a lot of patience and played with it, and made my conclusions from experiencing the product. If you want to use BMax that's fine and i'm not trying to convert you. I just wont pretend to understand why you aren't using C++ instead, it's more portable and versatile and you can already get numerous 3D engines for it... Development time/hassle is about the same. C++ has far more tutorials and better documentation out there too. I do wonder "why?" when I think of BMax, but clearly it appeals to some people so he hasn't got it all wrong. It just doesnt appeal to me. |
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| It's not really a negative thing but at the same time it has absolutely no relevence to me or anyone else who has arrived to the "blitz-scene" BECAUSE of bmax. So yeah.. Out with the old, in with the new, as they say. stepaside bb / b3d fanboys _kthxbye_. heheheh.. ok, I'm just messin around. In all seriousness, fix the documentation and you're cool. But I wouldnt worry about pleasing the established community as much as I would worry about making a stellar product. I think bmax is awesome, and I dislike linear progression so I dont like b3d, and I dont like bb. I only like bmax because of OOP, and there's a lot of newcomers that will arrive to the blitz-scene that are OOP fan-boys like me. |
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| http://www.blitzwiki.org You want better docs? Go make better docs. That site already does it quite well anyway. |
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| pffft wiki this.. xD ROFL I'm having too much fun today.. Ok, just trying to break this over-serious vibe I'm picking up on the forums today. At any-rate. I heart bmax is that enough? |
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| You want better docs? So, we (BRL customers) are not only expected to provide free technical support (via these forums), but also we're to write our own docs for BRL products!? Great. :/ Go make better docs. |
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| LOL big10p we're also supposed to be making the 3d module.. get to work!! xD |
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| Maverick I salute you - I've been round these forums at least a couple of years, and I've never started a thread thats gone to 50 posts. |
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| 50 responses is weak. Try 300. |
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| So, we (BRL customers) are not only expected to provide free technical support (via these forums), but also we're to write are own docs for BRL products!? Great. :/ At this point, why don't we just write our own language and cut out the middle man? |
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| You're lacking in documentation.. DO YOU: a) Publically complain b) Find a work around c) Both A and B d) Try something with documentation e) all of the above. f) Both a and d, but not b |
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| e) All of the above. |
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| I've been round these forums at least a couple of years, and I've never started a thread thats gone to 50 posts I could give you some tips if you want? I can guarantee that you'll get a lot of responses. :D |
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| I dont understand the way you phrased your question Mark, could you document it for me please? |
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| The truth is, it's mostly noobs and people who never do any 'real' coding that are complaining about all this. And to be perfectly honest, your opinions mean nothing anyway. Hehehe :) If I were Blitz Research I'd ignore you too. Actually no I wouldn't do that, I'd be banning you instead to keep down my bandwidth costs down. |
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| Sing along, everyone... "BRL and ENAY sitting in a tree, K.I.S.S.I.N.G!" :P |
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| ENAY thinks he is in a supreme position to judge others and tell them what to do. I've never seen anything remotely interesting coming from him apart from him making posts telling everyone how pathetic they are. Maybe not using the word pathetic but he might aswell do. Your posts are getting boring ENAY. Infact, IMO, you need a slap in the face, big time. |
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| Well...regardless of documentation the community here is perfect for getting anything that you want done. And if a command regerence (ie not so much a manual) isnt good enough for someone they arenmt trying hard enough. The modules are being worked on..Docs being neglected. Theres only so much time. I dont see being patience as a virtue at all but when you have no choice complaining isnt the way around. Just state that the docs could be better...(even if alot).Then maybe something would be done about it in time... |
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| [scouse accent] Calm down ! Calm down!" [/scouse accent] BlitzMax is not crap - it's a tremendous language - the documentation will mature as does the language. Yes - it's different to Blitz3d and not as intuitive and accesible but has more potential - and speed. The OOP features are there for those that want to use them in the same way that some Blitz3d users don't use Types. It would really be nice though if development of Blitz3d was to continue as really it appeals to a very different market to BlitxMax. Although it's not going to happen - A DirectX9 version of Blitz3d would sell like hot-cakes. |
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| It would really be nice though if development of Blitz3d was to continue as really it appeals to a very different market to BlitxMax. I agree, it would be great. And I don't simply mean the ocassional bug-fix update, either. Blitz3D is a fantastic language and it sadens me to see it usurped entirely by BlitzMax. :( |
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| I'm not fussed with BlitzMAX at the moment. I've tried to learn a few languages (Java, C#, VB... To be honest... who hasnt :) ) and Blitz and C++ are the only ones I've grasped. I've played with the BMAX demo, and there's nothing I need in there. I find using C++ and B+ together works perfectly fine for me, so, the concept of learning the mechanics of another language sort of puts me off! I'm also shunting quite nicely along with DirectX (Well, 2D game programming with Direct3D), and it's starting to sink in... I've already ordered 'Introduction to 3D Game Programming with DirectX® 9.0', which includes the very basics of 3D programming from 3D maths theory through to terrains, meshes, shaders etc etc So even if BlitzMAX does include 3D, for me, it may be to late! Now, the chump that started this thread, seems to me, is all P*SS and S&IT, because he's had 216 posts in this forum, and not ONE 'code archive' entry. Which seems strange to me, because if I make something in Blitz that people might like/find useful, it automatically gets banged in there! I've only had 318 posts, and still managed to share 6 half decent archives, as well as popping in the beginners section now and again to give people a hand. And how he can compare BM to C is just laughable! :D Dabz |
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| Which seems strange to me, because if I make something in Blitz that people might like/find useful, it automatically gets banged in there! For all the rambling, ranting, etc. I do, I do try to do that. Right now I have 27 entries and about 20 other libraries I haven't released in the code archives (mainly because I have to include some other stuff that isn't public domain or something similar). The more stuff that's out there the more people can learn from it, and the more people learn the better we all are. |
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| Oh yeah that's a good point actually, when Blitzmax3D is finished there will be little documentation for that too. Yes, so that's so what everyone will be complaining about next. I struggled for about 2 months with Blitzmax, but after a lot of practice and determination I'm more than comfortable with it now. Shame the whine brigade can't do the same. I suppose on the positive side it does give me something to read and laugh about. |
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| What makes you better than me is not the tools you use Enay, it's your membership to the Biscuit Appreciation Society. The language you chose to develop in has nothing to do with it - in programming it's results that count and the end result is as good as the team that makes it. The tool allows the team to express their skills - that is all. Chose the tool that grants you the features you want. If you want to make simple little 2D retro games using modern OOP techniques then go with BMax, it's brilliant. |
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| At this point, why don't we just write our own language and cut out the middle man? Decided to stop moaning and do just that - so I've only got myself to blame for the shortcomings or questionable priorities. I'm now a happy - but sometimes rather confused coder. ;-) |
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| Retro!??!?! RETRO!?!?!? Becky how dare you.. |
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| Hi all, We concern about the uncertainty of BlitzMax. Is it worth spending time to learn BlitzMax? Will it save our development time and get high speed finally? Old saying:Time is money. Blitzbasic loss some execution speed, but cut down the development time substantially! We could prove it with evidence. To be fair, we could compare the time to program on same topics using 3 languages: BlitzBasic, BlitzMax and C++, then check which one take shorter time and higher execution speed, instead of guessing the results? If a language shorten the development time and get very high execution speed, I think we should learn it. Thanks in advance. Sammy :) |
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| Hi all, How about "Blitzbasic & BlitzMax & c++ Tournament 2006" on same topics? (Hoping this could remove all uncertainty about BlitzMax.) Thanks Sammy :) |
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| hmmm...this post is still here, how odd - maybe we should spend more time programming and less time talking about it :p ;) |
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| I think even if you just made one game with Blitzmax and then moved on, that would be satisfactory. If everyone did that, then there could be as many as a thousand games written in max. How many are there so far? |
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| ENAY, I think people are too uncertain of BlitzMax at the moment - no 3d module, terrible documentation and questionable priority. BlitzMax should always have been about taking the excellent Blitz3d to the next level but still keep the hobby programmer vibe - rather than a C++ compromise. For all the positives, BlitzMax is a complete mess and Mark should realise he has got it wrong - either write a graphics engine for C++ or produce a language for hobbyist programmers - not a compromise between the two - it simply doesn't work. I feel I have to put in the hard work to do the job myself when, on previous form I was relying on Mark to produce something great. Very disappointing. |
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| You want better docs? Go make better docs. Maybe the reason they're asking is that they DONT KNOW? How can they make better docs themselves? Geez... |
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| ENAY, I think people are too uncertain of BlitzMax at the moment - no 3d module, terrible documentation and questionable priority. It's an ego thing. Armchair commandos sitting at home pointing out all the mistakes they percieve BRL are making. What they don't realize ofcourse is that they don't have the 411, nor do they have any experience running a company. Never the less they know better than people who have been doing this for ages?Perhaps some of the people who keep comparing BlitzMAX to C++ culd explain the similarities to me? Because I really don't get it. BlitzMAX is nothing like C++ at all. They have different philosophies, different syntax and different audiences. C++ is a 3rd generation language, BlitzMAX is a 4th. |
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| ..they prolly think that OOP always equals C++ .. |
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| Maverick is just trolling anyway, you've only got to read his first post again to see how childish it is. Max is crap because it has a lack of documentation, max is crap because it takes 3 hours to download it, max is crap because the website takes 30 seconds to refresh to load. I mean, it's just feeble isn't it? Max has been out now for what, about 7-8 months by now? And some of the people who moan here have been around from the beginning. (I've seen them posting in the BMax exclusive forums that you can only post in when you've bought the program) This issue is more to do with procastination really. Blitz Research could have taken the Cobra route, don't release it until everything is totally finished and working with lots of documentation, or get it released earlier and have problems and bugs to fix. I mean, either way you're gonna get butt raped by the moan brigade, and it shows. And it's always from the same people . It's funny because it's true, just ban all the moaners I say. |
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| I don't expect BRL to write better docs. They are no Microsoft. What I'd like to see is some centralized and organized community thing. The stronger the community the better it is for all of us. |
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| What I'd like to see is some centralized and organized community thing. Er, you mean, like these forums? :P |
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| BRL SHOULD have written better documentation - it's their product we paid for. Official documentation is paramount with a sophisticated piece of software. Unlike Photoshop for example you can pop into any good bookstore and get an unofficial book that tells you more than the supplied manual - you can't do that with a less well known language like BlitzMax. Clearly BlitzMax isn't crap, but personally I'm dissapointed with it (for several reasons) but I'll leave it at that. Actually I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked - it's certainly run it's course anyway. |
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| maverick, you're just a whiny noob that disturbs me. please leave. |
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| Just lock this already. |
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