why is blitzMax cheaper than Blitz3d
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| If blitzMax is an improvement on blitz3d why is it cheaper. Is there something i am missing? |
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| BlitzMax at the moment is only for 2d (both in OpenGL and DirectX). In the near future will be avaible a 3d module for handling 3d graphics (with shaders, shadow volume, ODE phisics and so on...) Blitz3d is 'full' 3d, but obliged to use only DirectX 7 (so is difficult use shaders and 'other' new features of modern graphics card). Probably the final price of Bmax+3d module is not cheaper than Blitz3d (my personal opinion!) |
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| It doesn't necessarily have to follow that a more recent product is more expensive than an older one. For example when I signed up with a cable company for DSL internet, it cost a specific amount. Then the next year new technology/speed came out, at a cheaper price. Things get cheaper as they evolve. Sometimes. |
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| BlitzMax the language is a great improvement over Blitz3D the language, but the full range of actual functionality from the standard built-in code is not as wide. Notably, no built-in 3D at all, and the MaxGUI mod (which gives BlitzPlus-like functionality) costs extra; the Max3D one (which will take months at least before it is available) will too. |
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| Since BlitzMax is modular, you can kind of pick & choose which portions of the language you want to buy. The base price of BlitzMax which includes all the 2D stuff is cheaper indeed... But there is also an additional GUI module that you can buy for $25. Then there is the 3D module currently under development, which will also be sold for an as-of-yet unknown amount. There may be additional modules later -- so the basic product is cheaper, but if you opt to get all the optional add-ons that may be released at a later date, it may end up being a little more expensive than B3D. On the other hand, if you have no need for the 3D module (like me), you can save some money by not buying those features. |
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| Exactly. Though the more I learn about 3d programming, the more I want to do it! I'll be happy once it arrives. My OpenGL learning is coming along, but at slow pace. |
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| Of course, blitz3d doesn't have the gui either. I'm guessing that's why the Blitzgui module is free to b+ users but not to b3d users. It would have been nice if the free gui upgrade would have been offered to those b3d users who purchased bmax instead of just the b+ users! |
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| OK, I have created a game in blitz3d do you think its worth upgrading to blitzMax? |
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| Well, it's not worth it to convert your game to blitzMax if that's what your asking (probably). But I would recommend using it for any new projects that you start. It's a really great language and is only going to get better. |
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| Here's a question, if the GUI module was free to Blitz+ users, is the 3D module going to be free to Blitz3D users??? I think not! |
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| Simply because you have to buy "Modules" for BMax, and.... you'll have to pay $$ for 3D module, not sure how much but should fall on $100 range. |
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| I hope it'll be actually cheaper, because it won't be a standalone product. |
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| Here's a question, if the GUI module was free to Blitz+ users, is the 3D module going to be free to Blitz3D users??? Hell no.. I hope it'll be actually cheaper, because it won't be a standalone product. I'd expect $100 bare-minimum. |
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| And why do you? Compared to other competing languages (DBP / PB / RB etc) it can't go over the 160$ maximum for BM + GUI + 3D especially not with the crappy "IDE" and its really bad documentation - example - tutorial background it has. Its minimal OO implementation doesn't make it that much better than the mentioned languages and its missing editors for GUI or the always existing Crossplattform problem make it even less usable than adviced ... |
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| Its minimal OO implementation doesn't make it that much better than the mentioned languages and its missing editors for GUI or the always existing Crossplattform problem make it even less usable than adviced ... I think it's a wise choice to rely on the community: A better IDE and a GUI editor: http://www.blitzbasic.com/logs/userlog.php?user=8077&log=598 There is no such thing as a "crossplatform problem." Try doing crossplatform with a lower level language. Return to BM and do crossplatform with that. Which one was least painful? And yes, I think that BlitzMax is cheaper than B3d because it's modular. When someone buys B3d, they aren't just buying that language; they're buying the 3d engine as well. |
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| If the 3d module isn't either free or reduced in price for B3d users, then it's basically a slap in the face to those people who bought the more expensive previous product (B3d) instead of the cheaper (B+) product. |
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| If the 3d module isn't either free or reduced in price for B3d users, then it's basically a slap in the face to those people who bought the more expensive previous product (B3d) instead of the cheaper (B+) product. 1. No it isn't. 2. You deserve to be slapped for saying that. |
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| Compared to other competing languages (DBP / PB / RB etc) These are not competeing languages. Only RB is OO, only DBP has a useable 3D module, only PR and RB are remotely cross-platform, etc.The only real competitor to BlitzMAX is the Torque + CodeWarrior combo, which will set you back quite a bit more than 160 USD. If the 3d module isn't either free or reduced in price for B3d users, then it's basically a slap in the face to those people who bought the more expensive previous product (B3d) instead of the cheaper (B+) product. How do you figure that? I would hope people buy software based on which features it has rather than how much you can get for your bucks.Blitz3D has had a much longer lifespan, and much better support than Blitz+. Besides which many people bought Blitz3D before there even was a Blitz+. |
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| I believe that it's just stategy. When the 3D module comes out the plan will be over. Then Full Blitz Max will be much more expensive than Blitz3D and if you think about it, the full product it's allready 5$ more expensive than Blitz3D. |
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| Noel Cower: 1. No it isn't. 2. You deserve to be slapped for saying that. 1. To you it isn't. To him it is. 2. Why does he deserve to be slapped for stating his opinion? Now, I can understand that you wouldn't care about discounts for Blitz3D owners (since you sold your copy of Blitz3D long ago), but I don't think he deserves to be slapped simply because you don't care about Blitz3D discounts and he does. |
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| Mr. Pickle: there is more than just 1 crossplattform problem because the linux build has more than just a one problem compared to Windows / OSX and the 3D module will be superior worse to that for sure. And torque costs 100$, there are free IDEs that are superior to BMs you can use (there is a alpha version basing on eclipse for example, Dev-C++ is another one) and in this equation, I don't even take the sum of all editors into account which just don't exist in BM so BM can't be compared to them ... BM is a bare engine and always has been. PS: PB has a 3D module basing on OGRE ... and to tell the truth, I first want to see if BM 3D is able to compete with that one ... because the 2D can't compete with most existing 2D engines not even counting the missing editors that others (I own Torque2D for example which cost 20$ more, but has quite some ingame editors with lots more following and GUI for free - now even with support for 3D shapes) bring with them. |
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| Dev-C++ is another one Bloodshed Dev-C++ is neither superior to MaxIDE nor cross platform. not even counting the missing editors that others (I own Torque2D for example which cost 20$ more, but has quite some ingame editors with lots more following and GUI for free First of all, 20$ more is not "free". Secondly, a commercial Torque Game Engine license costs 500USD. Semantics aside, what are these 'missing editors' you're talking about? What is it you could possibly need to edit that isn't specific to your game, unless ofcourse the game in question is a boring, generic, reptitive, cookie cutter game? |
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| Here's a simple way to compare: Blitz3D Price: $100 Language Features: 40 points 3D Features: 30 points 3D Ease-Of-Use: 90 points Total Points: 160 Points Per Dollar: 1.6 DBPro Price: $90 Language Features: -50 points 3D Features: 80 points 3D Ease-Of-Use: 0 points Total Points: 20 Points Per Dollar: 0.22 BlitzMax & Max3D Price: $80 + $? Language Features: 80 points Max3D Features: ? Points Max3D Ease-Of-Use: ? Points Total Points: 80 + ? Points Well, that's my opinion, anyway. |
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| What is it you could possibly need to edit that isn't specific to your game, unless ofcourse the game in question is a boring, generic, reptitive, cookie cutter game? You know, all the stuff the community ends up writing because they're trying to make real games. |
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| Semantics aside, what are these 'missing editors' you're talking about? What is it you could possibly need to edit that isn't specific to your game, unless ofcourse the game in question is a boring, generic, reptitive, cookie cutter game? The stuff that is core to a 2D game engine: particle editor, ingame gui editor, tilemap editor etc ... you know, the whole stuff that the community needs and needed to write on his own for B3D as they do for BM ... Thats stuff that, even if it does not cost money, cost a lot of time which recalculated into money will cost more than what you save on BM. And yeah, the commercial license is more expensive. But lets stay in the realistic part: no one here ever earned more than 250'000 with their games per year (nearly none uses a "commercial" publisher which would force them to the commercial license) so they don't need to buy the commercial license. Most here seem to do free stuff or cheap shareware because they can't afford to pay large team ... and for especially this sector, standard editors for generic stuff seems like a must have to me. on the IDE: Dev-C++ might be win only, but the other 2 have emacs. Eclipse is a solution for multiplatform. And I think they are all superior to BM which is not even able auto complete on project base ... the ide might be ok for single files but for large projects its the hell in best ... and just because their is BLIDE, BM isn't any better because again, we need a community to do the job which is very sad! |
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| You know, all the stuff the community ends up writing because they're trying to make real games. Like what? particle editor, ingame gui editor, tilemap editor etc ... All these things would have to be coded to suit your game specificly, or look out of place, and/or generic and bland. And yeah, the commercial license is more expensive. But lets stay in the realistic part: You mean lets selectively pick arguements that suit you. BlitzMAX does not impose artificial license restrictions on your work. Cheap versions of Torque do. The fact that you don't think people here are capable of making more than quarter of a million dollars on their titles (not per year, total sales) is irrelevant to the arguement - to get the same license and freedom BlitzMAX does, you need the 500 USD version of TGE. Dev-C++ might be win only, but the other 2 have emacs. Come on, are you even trying? Emacs is supposed to be better than the MaxIDE? we need a community to do the job which is very sad! Why? BRL only have a limited amount of time and resources. I would most certainly prefer they focus on fixing the things we can't, and that certainly doesn't involve particle systems and leveleditors. |
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| $100 is not big money, considering most of you should have more than $1500 monthly income (mine is $1100, not much but enough for myself). I plan to spend around $300 per month for game/software, and others was saved in bank. |
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| Thanks God a community exists and can help...and answer to your questions! I dont' think that BRL needs to focus on other products like level editor or particle system: their core business is developing a language (Blitz3d or Bmax) and offer the max possibilities to us to use it in the easiest way. Building game interface, level editor or particle engines must to be our problems...BRL must offer to us only the right tools (Bmax and its mods). This is my opinion...(an happy BRL costumer) |
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| How I can use Dev-C++ to compile BlitzMAx code? |
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| you cant |
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| degac: I didn't say they should focus on other stuff. But they should think about extending their work a little to core editors that are generics in the sector they operate with their products (hobbyists) ... So far this editors were always created by the community and even then they don't get some kind of support or "help" with a better linking on the page through BRL. At the moment it seems to me like BRL has no interest in their own language ... or I better should remove the at the moment because the lose of Gile[s] (one of the best apps ever done with B3D without question) to DBP makers was the first elemental error ... I know BRL is a small team. But the size of the community also shows that the team perhaps became too small in the last 2-3 years as you will see when you wait for an official answer to elemental questions (see the license - dll thread for example) ... The quality of the docs and IDE for BM just strenghtened this feeling in me ... BRL is not bad, it is just getting "worse" since quite some time ... so if this trend isn't stoped, BRL will be the same to me as TGC somewhen ... But ok, I will stop this discussion as some tend to missinterpret my postings. I just compared BM + 3D module with other competing products on the same sector and what they offer for the price some here mentioned to be ok for it. |
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| I understand your point of view, but it is for the facts that you mentioned (quite bad docs first off all...) that I hope BRL get focused on its primary goal: BMax, mods and 'fine-tuning' of them; then, with time and good will, they can make/sell all they want...but if I remember correctly the *only* tool they offered (initially at payment) was Maplet...not bad, but not very professional for my taste. Having a good support (in development, answer, immediate solutions) is *maybe* the BEST tool we can hope (and we have it: look at the continuos updating of mods and main progs...) If other products offer more at the same (or even) at less price, this is a question we can't modify...we can choose only - or hope. I don't want offend or misinterpret noone, and this is only my opinion. Byez |
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| I'm half with you Dreamora, half against you. BRL has really gone for it to make Max the best possible product - and its a very ambitious project for a small team. Max has a really sound base with a solid optimising compiler, which a lot of people overlook. I really like the OO implementation and don't see a lot missing (although to be fair my OO background is limited). What else do you think it really needs? Things are slow and will be until the 3D mod is out IMO - the docs do stink and BRL comms on stuff like bug reports is poor (I've no problem with them ignoring the continual 'WHEN' questions). You sound like you really don't like Max much at all though Dreamora - I love it despite its flaws and think its by far the best bet for the money. Some 'engine' bits would be nice - but its way down my list of priorities - Max was never described as a game engine - but I think you're right that BRL could do with taking on another bod. |
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| One thing mentioned often enough was multiple inheritance. I understand that this is a hard task as selection, rename and undefine mechanisms are needed then as well. But I don't get the real use of the abstract declaration, if you can't import more than one abstract interface ... thats what they are mostly for. There there is a second quite large leak out compared to modern (not C++ start like) OO and thats generic programming. You can't do that at all in BM. I don't have anything against Max. But after we have BM now for an extend period and there was not even a chance mentioned that the language will be extended to that point. The problem will become worse with the 3D module ... Because how is mark planing to make it in OO??? (the 2D modul sucks in this way extremely because image is not fully OO usable) The 3D Modul will have different core classes: Entity, PhysicEntity and others ... how is he planing to combine them for the OO part so we can really use the 3D engine in OO? I am not planning to buy a 3D module thats the same **** as the want-to-be OO 2D module at the moment is, that force me to use procedural constructs! Thats what drives me to this strange behavior. I don't want to see 3D module etc as well as long as BM is not ready for it. There are too many things left that need to happen until then. One is a readied up OO implementation, another would be a DX9 driver. When mark wants to do a next-gen 3D module, making a fully working driver which is tested with Max2D for a long time before that, is a must-have to me. We already are kicking the 2D module because of the unoptimized implementation and DX7 driver which causes quite some problems with actual graphic cards because DX7 is outdated and won't be further supported ... |
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| Everyone who is complaining about the lack of every editor in the entire universe clearly does not understand the purpose of a programming language. I would be very annoyed if BRL wasted time developing tile editors instead of updates to their languages because there are already many very good free and paid tile editors, and all of the other "missing" packages described above. I, for one, couldn't care less about a tile editor, but I know that 90% of users would be very happy with a general update to the product that they already own. (With the ones described above who fail to understand the purpose of a programming language being the exception). The 3D Modul will have different core classes: Entity, PhysicEntity and others Where did you find the invisible worklog with this information?I completely agree with your comments about needing a DX9 driver, a few language improvements, and all that. However, hasn't someone already written the beginnings of DX9 in BM? |
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| There are beginnings for it already in made by mark (pub.directx). But as we see with Max2D, this drivers don't mean much if not used in an optimized way. And I don't say that the actual BRL team should do it ... but with the raising prices they should perhaps enlarge their team a little to have 1-2 peoples in it that do their apps ... Mark does not like to do them ... and the IDE does not really show that much "love for editors" as well so their really needs someone whos job it is to do editors ... And no, it was no invisible worklog. Mark's techdemo showed the physic entities .. and I assume that there are entities that are not affected by physic and need their own structure ... what if you want to create an extended one with the capabilities of both? |
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| But after we have BM now for an extend period and there was not even a chance mentioned that the language will be extended to that point. It hasn't even been out for a year yet. I don't think it's entirely fair to compare it to other OO languages like Java, Python or C# (modern OO language) who have been around for at least a decade. (the 2D modul sucks in this way extremely because image is not fully OO usable) How do you mean? How is the TImage class not object oriented? the IDE does not really show that much "love for editors" as well so their really needs someone whos job it is to do editors ... That seems a waste of time too, considering how well the community version of MaxIDE has come. I think the fact that skidracer is attached to the project somewhat undermines your arguement that BRL doesn't care about editors. what if you want to create an extended one with the capabilities of both? If your assumption is correct then a PhysicsEntity (or whatever) would naturally extend a "regular" entity, and you can then extend both or either as you see fit. |
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| Yeah sure, C# has been around a decade ... as JAVA in compiled version ... (both not even half that old). TImage has no method ... whenever you want to draw something you are forced to used functions that draw it. TImage is only a struct out of "C++" view if you want it this way. And thanks on the proof that it is again up to the community to do the job that should have been done by BRL with the MaxIDE ... If there wasn't a community solution for most the stuff, I don't think BM would ever have been created because B3D already lacked in some points (and thanks to the missing access still do if we think of S3TC, Stencil and other stuff that could even with DX7 be done but that mark never implemented and that does not work stable when done through userlibs because it has to be hacked in) If BM ide would have been the first "weak" IDE, ok. But the old ones were as bad ... and there have been enough community made IDEs so BRL had the chance to aquire one of these for BM instead of writing one that still is not project oriented ... And I don't think that something like this is really "over the top". But I know that you are against "negative" thinking in general and defend the good. As said, I don't say its bad. It just lacks in some points it better shouldn't as it entered a market that already has products that are better in the points I mentioned and brought some possible ideas up on what could be done. |
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| The counter argument to any of this is: UnrealEd. Why is UnrealEd so good? Because we use it every day, all day. I doubt anyone at BRL codes BlitzMax in MaxIDE. |
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| Exactly. And who made UnrealEd? The developers of Unreal made UnrealEd. This would be (metaphorically speaking... I realize that they use a full-blown language like C++) because the generic editor that came with their programming language did not appeal to their project. (Thus rendering this editor, which delayed the release of their programming language by 5 months, completely useless). Also... I frequently use the plain, basic, Blitz ide for quick programming stuff because it is very quick to load and I can start writing code in seconds. I think that the BM IDE is excellent. Why? Because they actually released the source code. Now I am going to refrain from posting and let this thread die as it was about to. The question is answered. I know that I am a hypocrite. |
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| [bleh, never mind, there were just opinions here that others took out of context for the purpose of ridicule] |
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| So tell me, Noel Cower, why should I and other B3d owners NOT expect a discount for the 3d module of Bmax? Because you're not entitled to one?Out of curiosity, which part of the product description for Blitz3D led you to believe it was "Blitz+ with a 3D engine", or that Blitz3D had GUI elements? Also, since you say you're chiefly doing 2D development, why would you buy the more expensive product that has functionality you don't need? |
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| Because the documentation is evil an useless? |
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| Because the documentation is evil an useless? It hasn't hindered me. |
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| Cheese with the wine anyone? Make sure it's cheap though... or free for those true wine connoisseurs. |
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| It hasn't hindered me. So many jokes, so little time. The documentation is weak. Stop defending it. |
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| [bleh, never mind, there were just opinions here that others took out of context for the purpose of ridicule] |
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| The documentation is weak. So was the documentation for BlitzBasic and Blitz3D. What's your point? Please explain why users of the $60 blitz product deserve a free module in Blitzmax They don't deserve one either. They just got one regardless of what they deserved. but users of the $100 blitz product don't deserve even a discount on a max module? Because at the time you purchased Blitz3D, and at no point later than that date, did anyone promise you said discount. Now if the terms you purchased Blitz3D under had included some sort of future-proof upgrade path, then yes, you would have been entilted to a discount. It didn't, so you don't. If some users here feel that people who bought B3d instead of B+ are for some reason less worthy of a discount or free module for Bmax then so be it. That's exactly the point. They aren't. But the point you seem to be missing is that despite Blitz+ being a newer product than Blitz3D, with worse support, even less frequent updates, virtually no addiotional features since release (certainly not compared to Blitz3D) and already at the end of it's useful life, Blitz+ owners did not deserve, and are not entitled to any freebies from BRL.Just because BRL decides to give them one anyway, does not suddenly mean everyone else is automatically entitled to the same thing. The advertisement for the different products on this site has changed. Is that so? Good thing we have our own little time machine. To me the descriptions from September 2004 look suspiciously identical to the ones we have now. Ofcourse I might be imagining all this, but it seems pretty clear to me that Blitz3D doesn't mention a GUI, nor make a bulletpoint of it's 2D functionality. Unlike BlitzPlus for instance. |
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| [bleh, never mind, there were just opinions here that others took out of context for the purpose of ridicule] |
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| The way I see it, Blitzmax is a completely different product than both BlitzPlus and Blitz3D. Its not an upgrade of either of the two, its a new product. And as such you should pay for for it, including whatever additional modules they will be releasing. I own both B3D and B+, and I don't mind having to pay full price for Blitzmax. I even paid for the maxGui module despite already having B+ so I could have gotten it for free. I feel that Blitzmax is a good purchase and it keeps getting better. I will be more than happy to pay for future modules which I am in need of. |
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| Please explain why users of the $60 blitz product deserve a free module in Blitzmax but users of the $100 blitz product don't deserve even a discount on a max module? 1. Max3D is likely to be much more complex than a GUI wrapper (that hardly works). 2. Max3D is likely to be far more advanced than Blitz3D. 3. Max3D is going to be a budget 3D engine. You aren't paying ~$500,000 for Max3D, you're paying $100 or so. Now if I licensed, say, the Unreal engine, I wouldn't expect a discount on future versions (although I'm not sure what their licensing terms are in such a case) because I was developing with the version I licensed, not a new version. When you licensed Blitz3D, you licensed it to develop your game in Blitz3D, not so you could make your game in Blitz3D then go "oh wait, that was a stupid idea, why didn't I use Max3D?" Blitz3D and Max3D are not going to be the same thing (if Mark has any reasonable amount of intelligence, which seems to be true despite skid's best efforts to make BRL look as if it were infested by morons). And, once again, this is budget software. You paid very, very little for Blitz3D considering the size, stability, and completeness. Despite the low price you would still ask for a discount when you're not entitled to one and don't need it? As for complaining about how BlitzPlus users got a free copy of the GUI module: they still had to buy BlitzMax. BlitzPlus is a broken heap of trash, if anything the buyers of it were misled and deserve that minor $25 discount (even though they still had to pay more for BlitzMax than BlitzPlus). I'm not going to bother continuing this argument since it's absolutely pointless. Instead, I'll just repeat this: you deserve to be slapped. |
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| So Flameduck, your opinion seems to be that Blitz is somehow magically different than the rest of the software world, and loyal existing customers don't deserve a price break on software upgrades. They don't. I have CodeWarrior 5. I'm not eligable to an upgrade to CodeWarrior 8 or 9, or whatever version Metrowerks is up to. To say that Blitzmax isn't a software upgrade is pure nonsense, after all it is replacing both B3d and B+. Not very argumentative, considering BRL are still selling BlitzPlus. So Flameduck, when you get an upgrade of Office, Visual Studio, your favorite programmer's editor, or anything else in the entire friggin' world of software, do you pay full price? Yeah pretty much. I don't buy several thousand dollars worth of software upgrades every year, unless there's any additional functionality that I actualy need. Why not, you don't have any promise of discount when you bought the original software? You're right I don't. In fact my CodeWarrior purchace entitles me to no such discount. For a limited time, Metroworks where offering a discount for upgrading to version 6, but since I didn't feel the need to pay 450USD or so for what I percieved to be insignificant improvements, I didn't take them up on that.Now since BRL are already giving their major updates away FOR FREE, and not making "new" products every year, none of this applies to BRL products. In fact my version of Windows XP (an OEM version that came with the computer) the EULA is rather specific that no upgrade path exists. By your argument you should be insisting that these companies take full price from you for those upgrades! That's rediculous. I've said no such thing. Besides which companies *do* take full price for those upgrades, they just add a little bit to the price for "late adapters" so "loyal customers" think they're getting a better deal. Look at the budgets for any publicly traded company. Sales expectations will be at the "discounted" unit price, anyone paying extra is just free money.Besides which you're clearly missing the point by miles and miles. It is not my place to tell companies at what price they should or shouldn't sell software. I just have realistic expectations as to how much my addmission fee gets me, and do not expect anything out of a product, beyond those explicitly stated at the time of purchase. I don't care whether BRL gives a discount on Max3D or not - but I'm not holding my breath for one, and I'm certainly not going to explode in a childish fit of rage if they don't. I'm going to buy it like everyone else, because I have no doubt it's well worth the money, regardless of the asking price. And that's the criteria I use to buy powertols for the mind. Does it do what I want, and at a price less than what I could do it myself for. If the answer is yes, I'll be right there. Whether I can save 25 bucks on it or not is really not a priority - you can make 25 bucks in like 20 minutes. |
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| Noel nailed it on the head. *slap slap*. BlitzPlus was never the completed product Blitz3D was. As such, those who purchased it recieve MaxGUI as their kickback for the poor support on the original installment of that type of platform. If anything, you'd be an idiot for confusing the marketing on blitz's site in any way, and a double slap you earn.(Common, in the six years I've used their services there has been a paragraph or so for each product describing what it is in SIMPLE terms.) |
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| you can make 25 bucks in like 20 minutes. You can make about $50 in 10 if you have a friend who'll pay you to run around a shopping mall naked. |
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| You can make about $50 in 10 if you have a friend who'll pay you to run around a shopping mall naked. Only in America. :o> |
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| So was the documentation for BlitzBasic and Blitz3D. What's your point? If you can't see my point it's not worth talking to you. |
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| The advertisement for the different products on this site has changed. If you go back over a year, there wasn't the slightest difference between the description of the 2d capabilities of B+ and B3d in the ads on this site. We've never ever claimed or insinuated that Blitz3D contains the GUI features of BlitzPlus. after all it is replacing both B3d and B+ No, it's not. As far as updates go, Blitz3D has received over 60 since release (see versions.txt), all without charge. What a bunch of money-grabbing tightwads we are. |
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| I really lost the logic of this thread...the question was (is) Why Bmax is cheaper than Blitz3d? Answer: because it's modular and lack (at the moment) of some Blitz3d aspects. You buy the core (Bmax alone) and get FULL & FREE update, then if you want, you can expand is capability with other official mods like MaxGUI and the future Max3d (or whatover will be its name) - and get FULL & FREE update for the mods too. Be positive for the 2006 and beyond... |
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| Yeah, I am kinda sick of this argument as well..... I welcome paying for the Max3D module fully! I expect no discount, and am still happy when it comes out. I still use Blitz3D and also use BlitzMax when I dont need 3D. My copy of blitzplus has been collecting dust since I merely bought it to support BRL. The free GUIMod was welcome, but also not expected sinc I was planning on buying the GUI module anyhow. I really have no use for BlitzMax at the moment to be honest until the 3d module comes out. But I am still happy to have bought it and given my part to give mark the needed insentive to 'get-er-done' :-) But this whole "We deserve this from max, this isnt fair" argument is wearing thin.... |
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| [bleh, never mind, there were just opinions here that others took out of context for the purpose of ridicule] |
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| But heck, just for thinking existing users should get a discount on the upgrade, I get told by a 16-year old child that I should be hit, get called an idiot by another user, and even Blitz Support calls me a money-grabbing tightwad. If you're not even going to read what people write (BlitzSupport didn't call you a money-grabbing tightwad, just defended BRL against the charge you made; you've been told, continually, that Max is a new product rather than an upgrade) then most folk are going to assume you're an idiot. That's how it works. I don't understand how we've come to the point where completed products are considered "dead" rather than simply complete - how is there even the slightest argument in favour of a discount in that? If BRL's products were priced artificially high, like so many software packages, and there was a charge for support and whatnot, then I would be able to see what you were getting at; but BRL's prices are phenomenally low... expecting a discount is just cheeky. |
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| Shut up marcus, you know you're taking things out of context just to @#!* people off now, you probably have nothing better to do? Or do you do this hoping for a $10 discount? I'll send you 10 bucks, man. Just ask nicely. Nobody in their right mind would expect a discount for max3d. It's just nice that they gave the GUI module for free to b+ users. I dont mind blitz3d lacking updates (such as DXTC) because max3d is going to kick butt 10 times as much. And i also think blitz3d is rather cheap, now that i use it. When i bought it i was so excited i found it i didnt really think about the price. Existing blitz users might accept a higher price for bmax3d than new users perhaps. |
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| Blitz Support calls me a money-grabbing tightwad You really do go in for serious misinterpretations, don't you? How on earth could anyone think this was aimed at you? What a bunch of money-grabbing tightwads >>> *** we are *** <<< . The current version when I purchased was 186. So, you bought a more fully featured product than earlier purchasers. Are you saying that a year from now, 2 years from now, there will still be updates to B3d and B+, or are you essentially already selling a dead product? I don't know what we'll be doing in 2-3 years, but we're still selling BlitzPlus and Blitz3D. As far as I'm aware, we have no plans to stop selling them, even after the release of Max3D, and they aren't 'dead' products because they still create 2D and 3D games, as they're supposed to. What exactly are you unable to do now that would have been possible a year ago? What limitations have appeared in Blitz3D since you bought it that stop you creating software using the features described in the product description? |
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| Yeah I just released a BlitzPlus game and it's paid for all my development costs such as BlitzPlus, BlitzMax (unused!) and Protean. There are a couple of bugs that I had to make workarounds for but nothing major, it's still damn cool. |
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| Why didn't Id give me a discount on Doom 3? I am fairly certain I deserve one for purchasing Doom 2. Same with half life. Damn the man. I'm sick of all the money grubbing tightwads screwing me at every turn. Oh.. and for those of you who can't comprehend sarcasm, you just experienced it. |
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| [And] i [also] think blitz3d is rather cheap, now that i use it. It's not just rather cheap, it's incredibly cheap. Look at engines like TSE and you end up paying more. Look at engines like Unreal and you end up sacrificing your entire body to license it if you don't have a publisher backing you. For what is advertised and offered, Blitz3D is very fairly priced. Looking at posts in these forums since I purchased B3d, a recurring theme has been that support for B3d has dropped to practically zero because of ongoing work on Bmax Or maybe because *gasp* Blitz3D doesn't need anything? Blitz3D is stable and about as close to a finished product as you could ask for. What support do you need that has retarded the development of your project? But heck, just for thinking existing users should get a discount on the upgrade, I get told by a 16-year old child that I should be hit, get called an idiot by another user, and even Blitz Support calls me a money-grabbing tightwad. It's the internet, if you don't want to have to deal with people disagreeing with your opinion I'd advise you get off it. |
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| Why didn't Id give me a discount on Doom 3? I am fairly certain I deserve one for purchasing Doom 2. Actually I think you should get a full refund and written apology, since DOOM 2 was clearly the better product! |
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| [bleh, never mind, there were just opinions here that others took out of context for the purpose of ridicule] |
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| It was only because those B+ users got the free module that I expressed the opinion that B3d users should also get a free or discounted module. I'm sorry it was such an apparently stupid opinion and that it created such a deluge of disfavorable comments! My wife gave me some lovin last night, does that mean you should get some from her as well??? :-) It's not a stupid opinion, just an illogical one. The simple idea that someone should get something because someone else got something is irrelevant and a bit childish in my opinion. If you owned blitzplus you would have gotten a free GUI module just as I did. It was nice of them to do that, and I am not going to question generosity in such cases. To expect more generosity or to expect a pattern as such is expecting too much, because it is clearly unappreciated when it is expected..... |
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| My wife gave me some lovin last night, does that mean you should get some from her as well??? :-) If it was your wife's harem and she had two husbands, me and you, then I would say yes I need some lovin' also. That would only be logical. But since we're not both husbands to your wife, how is it a valid comparison?Thanks, Mark. |
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| It was only because those B+ users got the free module that I expressed the opinion that B3d users should also get a free or discounted module. I'm sorry it was such an apparently stupid opinion and that it created such a deluge of disfavorable comments! <FamilyGuy> Lois: Pick one, Peter. Peter: But that man over there got two! Lois: I don't care what that man got, you're only getting one. Peter: *sob* I hate you! </FamilyGuy> |
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| Man, this thread is going nowhere useful! When it was locked in the Bmax forums I thought "about time!" ....but I was wrong.... |
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| OK, here's what's likely to be my usual 3 page ramble =] <reads that everything has been covered> OK, cool, just one thing then... It was only because those B+ users got the free module that I expressed the opinion that B3d users should also get a free or discounted module. I'm sorry it was such an apparently stupid opinion and that it created such a deluge of disfavorable comments! It only created 3 according to you and one of them weren't directed at you. It is of course fine that you expressed your opinion, but naturally one should expect the opinion of... well, just about anyone else in return. And in that giant catastrophy up there, only two people insulted you. Well, one was a child. What can you do... it's the internet, you get them. "Children should be seen, not heard". So, disregarding that one other person that called you an idiot (which isn't constructive and only shows the maturity of said person), the response from everyone else was actually pretty mature and... here's the important part - informed and above all, educating. The fact that you relentlessly stuck to your point regardless of the overwhelming opposition shows courage, also stubborness, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but to outsiders it definately looks like a childish fit of rage. |
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| If I had known before purchasing B3d that a new, OO blitz product was going to be released within the next year, I would never have purchased B3d. But that is water passed under the bridge and doesn't really matter now. Oh come on. If b3d costs you $100 and you used it for a year thats $8.30 per month. You cant be that cheap can you? It's your hobby, and there arent any good hobbies as cheap as that. I understand not having money (because im mostly skint) but why else wouldnt you have bought blitz3d if you knew about bmax coming out? I dont quite get your point. |
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| Lenn, It's a hobby, yes, one of many. It's something I used to enjoy a lot but haven't done for many years. Before very recently, the last time I worked on game development was games written in assembly language on the Commodore 64 and in pascal (swapping floppies to compile) on the Apple II. I probably had time to devote 20 hours total to b3d due to being overbooked with asp.net clients for the past year. That was barely enough time to even learn the basics of b3d, much less do anything productive in it before Bmax came out. Being primarily a java and C# architect/developer for a living, of course I bought the more OO Bmax when it came out. It's only very recently that I lessened my client load and started having enough spare time to actually use either one in a productive fashion. I bought what I perceived as the most advanced product available at the time I bought b3d, but most definitely had I known that a more OO product would be available within a year that was not considered an upgraded version of the current flagship product I would not have bought it. I'm sure the future Bmax product was probably well-known long ago by people who dwell in these forums, but people who aren't members of these forums can't even do searches here. Obviously, I hadn't been active in the gaming community for many years so was not privvy to insider info, either. As I said before, that is water passed under the bridge and doesn't really matter now. Anyway, Lenn, it really seems in both of your posts that you're just trying to dig for no reason and bait further argument, so I don't see any reason to comment in this thread any further. And before anybody else finds some reason to slam me, the only thing I'm doing in this post is answering Lenn's question. Good luck in your current projects and future Bmax endeavors. Thanks, Mark. |
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| Blitz's upgrade path has been discussed and well known since the inception of Blitz 2D. Only back then, the code name for BlitzMax was "Blitz Pro". The only "unannounced" products have been Blitz-Plus and Maplet. Anyone who gets into the game and finds themselves disappointed didn't do any research into their purchase. And even then, BlitzMax is the price of a high-end game, which you will typically stop playing in about 3 months. |
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| heh..well it was fun reading this - now shutit + get some coding done + stop bitchin...if your going to moan, you should be focusing on asking BRL to release more news on developments at BRL, and on future plans etc...this is the only thing thats really annoying...the counter argument to this, is that BRL are too busy to release news..LOL yeh right... |
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| But since we're not both husbands to your wife, how is it a valid comparison? Because he thinks that because someone got something, he deserves it as well..... Probably a poor comparison... |
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