BlitzMax Licensing
BlitzMax Forums/BlitzMax Programming/BlitzMax Licensing
| ||
| I've been convinced by other users that even though BlitzPlus and Blitz3D have gone open source, that BlitzMax will remain closed-source. But if Blitz Research does decide making it open source down the road I have a small suggestion involving that. If it were to go open source, I'm no lawyer but I'm a part of another communtiy for an open source game engine and they seem to really know what they're talking about. So if BlitzMax were to go open source I would strongly recomend making it GPL licensed with a linking exception for the games in produces. That way the base IDE, compiler, and engine could not only be open source but can still be sold for the benefit of continuing to support Blitz Research to a degree, which I find to be much better than making no money from it at all. Blitz Research should still be making some form of income from BlitzMax closed source or not. The linking exception is a real can of worms for someone like me who knows nothing about this kind of stuff, but from what I've heard this can let the software stay open source while still allowing users to compile games that are commercial and closed source without needing to provide their games source nor be required to credit Blitz Research for the production of their app or game if they so desire. This is all high pathetical, but it's still worth proposing because we don't know what Mark is planning as he already released the source of two of his products without telling anyone he was planning to do that beforehand. What do you think? Does this sound like a good idea or a bad one? Why or why not? Do you have any suggestions you'd like to share on the future licensing of BlitzMax? Cheers. |
| ||
| Why should you use a licence others wrote? You could even do a MY LICENCE I the author allow everyone to use my software X to generate products of your choice. I also allow others to use the sourcecode of software X to provide patches and extensions but I do not allow others to sell software X without explicit permission of Z (me). bye Ron |
| ||
| That I didn't know, interesting, I guess it just shows how ignorant I am in the legal department. Is it really that easy? I thought it was much more complicated than that. |
| ||
| This is all high pathetical Hypothetical. ;)I don't know if Blitzmax is still selling - it probably is because in my personal opinion, it whups Monkey-X's arse black and blue all day long, and should still be evolving. I don't know the finer points of the GPL licence but if it involves external linking as a commercial requirement, then anybody who releases via publishers such as Big Fish Games is up crap creek, as external linking is prohibited. Brucey is doing some cool stuff with it so it'll be interesting to see how all that pans out. I'm not eager for Blitzmax to go open-source. |
| ||
| lol I've never actually wrote that word down before. I used to be eager about it selfishly but it's looking like it will have a brighter future closed-source for the reasons you listed among others. :) I hope Mark expands it to support Windows 8 store-ready apps at least because desktops are quickly dying (which really sucks) Macs are discontinued by Apple completely they only sell laptops now and with the fact Windows is already being merged with mobile in the new Surface this is going to be a sad age for indie devs. :( |
| ||
| @Tkg This depends on how licences are valid in various countries. There are Gountries like Germany, which do not have legal definitions of "Public Domain" (you cannot put something into "Public Domain", but you can grant everyone an unlimited and unrestricted right to do everything they want with it). This means, there are surely also countries not accepting the GPL - so they could do whatever they want with your code, they (their people) should just avoid visiting other countries to avoid getting sued while there. There are also countries enforcing you write in your licence that you wont be liable for damages etc. Normally this is not needed: humans have brains to use for things like "think before doing" (cat in the microwave). I do not know many countries with manuals next to weapons in the likes of "do not fire when having the gun turned 180 degrees". So "warranty" and "liability" are just needed for the sold product in the case of the product itself can create danger. But as it is the "use", I think this is another story. Enough ranted versus "licences". GPL is fine for many things - especially for the helpers, as "custom licences" may contain "ambiguity" or other things which might create incertitude on the side of the helpers. There are surely even coders ignoring "non [l]gpl"-projects. Also things like linux distributions require specific licences (real "FOSS") to add projects to their repos. bye Ron |
| ||
| So it varies by country. So this basically means no license is necessarily valid depending where you live. I guess that especially with open source licenses we aren't always safe. Cool beans. |
| ||
| So if BlitzMax were to go open source I would strongly recomend making it GPL licensed with a linking exception for the games in produces. GPL is the worst possible license to release anything under. It is a horrible license and it is a crippling license that stifles the open source movement. I hope Mark expands it to support Windows 8 store-ready apps Why? Nobody buys them. That would be the final nail in the coffin for BlitzMax. at least because desktops are quickly dying (which really sucks) Tell that to the enterprise market where desktops still are being bought thousands at a time. Desktops are not dying and they are not going anywhere. Macs are discontinued by Apple completely they only sell laptops now Where do you come up with this stuff? Apple just debuted an iMac that sets the industry standard. There is NOTHING in the PC market that can touch the new 5K iMacs. They are the desktop that all other desktops should be judged by. Apple also debuted a new Mini. Again, better than any comparable mini system in the PC market. and with the fact Windows is already being merged with mobile in the new Surface this is going to be a sad age for indie devs. :( You mean the same Surface that has never seen a model that does not have faulty hardware, that nobody buys, that has been a complete and utter failure and has caused a financial loss for Microsoft into the billions and that MS has already said they are giving it one more chance and then they are pulling the plug on it? This Surface? From the company with a documented history of failure in the tablet market going back to the XP days? The one OS to rule them all, that MS had to completely undo because nobody would buy the POS? The indie developers I know are thriving and having to turn down work. The only indie developers I know of that are struggling are indie game developers, but that is only because indie game developers quit wanting to be indie game developers and compete against other indie game developers, and instead try and compete against the major AAA produced games. |
| ||
| edit nevermind misread |
| ||
| Why should you use a licence others wrote? One small advantage is that it's easier for people in larger companies to get an OK to use the software, since their legal department would have already signed off on using particular licenses. A custom one can be a hurdle there. That said, many other licenses are much nicer to the end user than GPL is. MIT, BSD, etc... Macs are discontinued by Apple completely they only sell laptops now And the Mac Mini. And the iMac. And the magic ashtray^H^H^H^H^Mac Pro (Either that, or this is the funkiest laptop ever sold:  |
| ||
| It looks like a rubber toilet paper roll XD what would that be used for? I assume that's just one small part of the machine you're talking about? XD You made your point. My dad must have been misinformed about the Mac stuff he told me XD |
| ||
| The linking exception is a real can of worms for someone like me who knows nothing about this kind of stuff, but from what I've heard this can let the software stay open source while still allowing users to compile games that are commercial and closed source without needing to provide their games source nor be required to credit Blitz Research for the production of their app or game if they so desire. The licence for the compiler, and the licence for the libraries (i.e. modules), are two completely different things. The compiler is not bundled with the end product in any way, so its licence doesn't affect what you produce with it. GPL, BSD, proprietary, it doesn't matter. Compiler code doesn't make it into your app. (At least, not in this language.) (You could theoretically put a clause in the compiler's licence that tried to say something about app code. This would be dumb. Nobody does this. Can't copyright what you didn't create.) The licence for the libraries does affect the end product, since the libraries form part of it. Luckily, the BlitzMax modules are already open source, under the zlib licence. This is an incredibly permissive licence that doesn't even require crediting BRL for writing them (if you're a mean meanie who leaves credits off). TL;DR: the important part of this already happened while you weren't looking, in a way that's good for the Max end user. |
| ||
| It looks like a rubber toilet paper roll XD what would that be used for? I assume that's just one small part of the machine you're talking about? XD No, that IS what the Mac Pro looks like these days. It's apple's (miniature) "tower" computer. Here's a picture of one without the outer casing:  They're expensive though, they START at $2,999 for a 4-core CPU/256GB SSD, 12GB RAM, 2x2GB Video RAM. If you max out the specs (64GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 12-core CPU, 2x6GB Video RAM) the pricetag is around $10,000. |
| ||
| There is NOTHING in the PC market that can touch the new 5K iMacs. They are the desktop that all other desktops should be judged by. The new Mac Pro is crazy nice and so are the new iMacs. I am not some anti-mac zealot, I have a mac mini on my desk. But for the $2999 price for the Mac Pro, you can have around five quad-core machines with huge RAM space, 5 terabytes of drive space, etc. Macs are great and all but to say they are overpriced is an absurd understatement. 10 grand is getting into the ballpark of house payments. For that price you could have 20 quad core boxes with a total of 160 gigs RAM. The total processing power would kick the living crap out of the mac and it's always been that way. |
| ||
| A big problem with things like the imac is that they are almost entirely non user-serviceable. If your imac HDD goes out, it involves giant suction cups and special tools to dismantle the screen from the front, because apparently a a small access hatch on the back of teh machine messes up its prettiness. |
   |