I'd buy it twice - wish list
Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Programming/I'd buy it twice - wish list
| ||
| Hi there, I hope that my post is going to be a starting point for future blitz33d development. I know that to change/update/modify a product there is a lot of work to do. that's why i'd pay for it's next updates if... just a simple wish list... Mr. Blitz, please, offer us 1.- phisics 2.- lighting & sahdows i think i could be really happy :D cheers, |
| ||
| Theres a number of physic libs - tho none of them are really ideal a native physx implementation would be nicer: rubux physx - needs a lot more work to implement than other libs a bit of re-inventing the wheel - tho quite powerful and has most of the major features. easytok - nice implementation for simple useful physics.. but theres a couple of minor bugs (some of the memory buffers are too small, some object sizes are calculated incorrectly) and one major show stopping bug (tokamak bug removing a physics object when another is resting on it sometimes causes a crash) Newton - looks like a nice implementation but too many unresolved copyright issues. JV-ODE - I have no experience with. Again theres a few shadow systems - but none of them are ideal: Swift Shadows - I don't have a huge amount of experience with but seems a nice if somewhat limited implementation that needs a lot of "faking" to get decent results. Fast Extensions - very nice system for projected shadows but not very useful for more widespread useage. Devil shadow system - very fast stencil volume shadows - however it screws up your multi texture capabilities, breaks a number of other features and has overlap with patents owned by creative which could mean you'd end up owing them royalties on any shareware or commercial titles. I deffinatly reccomend purchasing the fastlibs for any serious blitz3d project they add so much useful functionality and performance increases they are indispensable. |
| ||
| I know theres a big thread or 2 on this but ... I'd happily buy blitz3d all over again if there was an update that included: Ability to load any asset including sounds, etc. from a bank aswell as a file. More advanced 3D audio options - hardware accel? open AL maybe. Some kinda shadow system Physx support |
| ||
| How about making B3D "Vista compatible"? So B3D 'might' have a future and still be usable say... a year from now? I keep running into too many problems running Blitz programs on Vista machines - it's driving me nuts and costing me a fortune at the moment! I think it's clear that even though B3D is a beauty and a gem, and I love programming in it, etc. (=don't get me wrong!!) but it's very very rapidly starting to get very very outdated... DX7 just won't cut it anymore.. On the future of B3D development, it should be clear there is NO future development on B3D. Today's power is supplied to you by the community itself like Viper and his ODE lib, the boys behind the FastExtention libraries, swift, Kev, and the list goes on. Each of these have done more for Blitz than dear old Mr. Blitz has in recent.. what.. 2 or 3 years? It's those libraries and contributions that have kept the ship afloat and exciting. So if you've reached the point you get serious about wishing for physics, fancy lighting & shading, proper audio, post effects, etc. then I think very carefully consider your stategy and the amount of time you might be willing to invest in your next project; for example how long does it take you to make something serious and will people still be able to install and run it by the time you're finished with it! ;) SORRY my dear fellows if it sounds like I'm ranting here, like I said I love Blitz and had great times these past years - even made some serious bucks with it and have part of my carreer to thank for it - but I reached the point that if I want to survive, I gotta move on and invest in tomorrow in stead of praying for a bug fix for yesterday's problems.. So yeah: Replacing the DX7 core with DX11 is on top of my wish list ;) Peace & Love! Danny p.s. I have to be fair and say 99% of all Vista-related problems are caused by Vista/Microsoft themselves - I'm fully aware of that! But we gotta work with what we got. |
| ||
| Most of the issues are down to Blitz3D working with the DX7 framework. This really limits the native and extensible capabilities of software ability, as to how viable or possible it may be for Mark Sibly (and co?) to erbuild the Blitz3D core to incorporate later DX version functionality, I of course cannot say, but I doubt it will happen. That said, BMax with a 3D module could well be a possible venture where compatibility with DX10+ and Vista (Windows7 and on?) would seem much more worthwhile. |
| ||
| I've not seen any problems with B3D and win7 myself aside from needing to make sure you use appdata, etc. paths. |
| ||
| Word of God is that Blitz3D will receive updates to bugs affecting its usability on Vista and Windows 7, at least for the time being. I have no idea whether Mark's been doing this (still using XP here for the time being) but that is the stated official position. As for new features? (EDIT: C-like) Pointers. Trying to do anything fun without pointers is too much like hard work. That's the only feature it needs. Given that BlitzMax apparently has this already though... |
| ||
| Theres a rudimentary pointer dll that even allows basic threading on the fast libs site. |
| ||
| On the JV-ODE front, I've had some great fun with the physics lib provided by VIP3R & heartily recommend it to anyone considering a solution to little physics issues. Do not get me wrong, I've worked through some great tutorials with blitz & got as far as driving a ferrari around a landscape, exiting the ferrari now & then to run around and shoot projectiles. I even worked in a trajectory system for my grenades a while ago in native Blitz, but after I tried the demo of JV-ODE I just had to buy it - exceptional value for money in my book. I've just recently happened across Pacemaker as well which makes boned model animation a joy. |
| ||
| hey there, so many reply for a little wish list... :O i have to admit that i have add many therdy part dll to my blitz3d release, and most of them work really great all together, but, it's always a mixture of half solution, and often they are not making the development faster (even for all my (really many)^2) prjs. And this is probably one of the reason i hardly arrive to end something worth the time i use to do it... (of course it's dew as well to my deep ignorance of the gaming roules and so on...) but still.... BLitz3D is a really fast learning solution. it would not be bad if Mr. Blitz and some other developers would like to cooperate a bit more closely to give birth to a more extended software. Still as a wish list it's not a must what i say! I'm trying to offer my opinions as a usefull (and unrequired) suggestion for a better and happier future of "blitz3D" and mine of course as well.... cheers |
| ||
| Safe to assume that Mr. Blitz's time & resources go in development of BlitzMax - which is fair enough, I suggest he either: 1. Makes Blitz3D open source - so others can contribute & continue development on it - increasing B3D's lifespan. As opposed to quietly trying to milk the product for as long as possible. 2. Hurries up with a properly working, full featured 3D Engine for BlitzMax (be it OpenGL or DX9/10) so that existing B3D users can upgrade and not only enjoy graphics features that have been common these past many years(!!) - but can also enjoy the additional and more advanced language features BMax has to offer. Enabling existing users to design and build future-proof games & applications. If Blitz Research does not provide a solution for future development then users have no choice but to look for an alternative engine & development environment. There's plenty other 3D engines and whatnot's available these days. I'm no advanced top-notch developer. But I have been programming all my life and have grown way too big for B3D in that I can no longer develop or commercialize my ideas, simply because I can not trust B3D to work anymore on today's machines & operating systems... Therefore I am currently forced to look in to and find an alternative engine that allows me to continue development for the next couple years.. My 2 cents. All the best, Danny |
| ||
| B3d dead long time ago... was killed by his creator..... (he changed Win-3D for mac-linux-2D) look the forum.... long time ago a lot of people make 3D project ... now only 2D.... 2D IS THE FUTURE!!!!!! and is you want 3D must buy other engine.... (ha ha ha, i hate 2D) Danny we must change to other engine and forgot B3D.... a lot of people did it. |
| ||
| B3d dead long time ago... was killed by his creator..... (he changed Win-3D for mac-linux-2D) look the forum.... long time ago a lot of people make 3D project ... now only 2D.... 2D IS THE FUTURE!!!!!! and is you want 3D must buy other engine.... (ha ha ha, i hate 2D) Danny we must change to other engine and forgot B3D.... a lot of people did it. Are you high? |
| ||
| a moment of madness |
| ||
| I hear what you're saying Khayn... Can anyone advice/suggest an alternate engine? Where did the good guys go? ;) DarkBasic Pro perhaps? Danny p.s. apologies jtassinari if I'm hijacking your thread, although I think this is all highly relevant.. |
| ||
| What's wrong with miniB3D? It's open source, offers all of the useful features from B3D, OpenGL (which these days has to be a better choice than DX7) and can thus use shaders, and as long as your application is actually written for it (as opposed to copy-pasted from Blitz3D) it's faster. It's also still being updated and about as close to officially recognised by BRL as you're going to get. |
| ||
| mates, all your opnions sound great to me, there is always something to leanr (even some better english from my PoV). just a bit sad to hear that 3d has died... most of all because it's really nice... as a blender user i'm thinking to learn Blender 3D Game Engine, even if Xors3D and Leadwerks are great solutionstoo... still i wish a better Blitz3d in my future, and most of all b.3d is really comfortable to write just dew to all good tools are around. That's why i suppose there could be some more... cheers |
| ||
| I've just switched from DarkBasic Pro to Blitz3D to develop an application. While I was reasonably happy with DBPro, the lack of a decent plugin GUI was one of the main reasons to switch, the other was that my son knows his way around Blitz3D and knew nothing about DBPro. Plugins i have bought for Blitz3D and found them really good are fastextensions, Particle Candy, [Phi]sics, and BCF 3.1. |
| ||
| Are you high? Hahahahaha! that was a sunshine into my cloudy day. |
| ||
| Wow... I don't understand why anyone would want B3D to be further developed when BlitzMax is the next incarnation of the language. It's essentially the same as Blitz3D when you use miniB3D but offers choices in regards to 3D engines that you attach to it (Ogre, Leadworks, etc). It also has more advanced language features you *can* use if you wish, or you can just stick to the more simple language structure; however, it offers more advanced coding techniques for those who want to improve their programming. In 2D it offers real-time scaling, rotation, blending etc. You can choose DX7, DX9, or OpenGL. I guess I just don't understand why someone would say "I would gladly buy Blitz3D all over again if it was updated" when it has been reincarnated as BlitzMax. For those who want it updated because they don't want to buy the new version, well, thats understandable... but all good things come to an end. The product still does what it did when you bought it, and is still being improved by the community... I imagine the reason B3D hasn't been "updated" is that it was based on DX7 which didn't use 3D to create 2D, so the whole system would probably have to be re-written... I don't know about you, but every time I consider re-writing something I think of a whole bunch of things I would change.... hense... BlitzMax! |
| ||
| Personally I don't like blitzmax much... blitz3d suits how I want to work nicely... with a few minor feature updates it could do everything I want - without having to deal with all the extra fluff some of the alternatives make you jump through. |
| ||
| 'I guess I just don't understand why someone would say "I would gladly buy Blitz3D all over again if it was updated"' Because we like the Blitz3D language. We don't like BlitzMax as a language. |
| ||
| Exactly. If Blitz3D got updated, I'd purchase the update. Yes, we're talking about money, here. |
| ||
| +1 |
| ||
| respect for people who really like B3D..i use to be one of them, so i will not say that I dont understand why somebody keep looking for B3D update, because as I said I use to be one of them..however, things moving on, I needed something better and i just downloaded Bmax demo..played a bit, and 'discover' whole new world of possibilities I could just dream about with B3D..since then, I bought Bmax and never turned back to B3D..beauty of choosing underlying engine of your choice while game logic almost entirely can be unchanged in case of switching engines, with beautiful OO features, really makes things super flexible and code sooo well organized and easy to update/folow...I highly recommend it(bmax), but as it took some time for me, I guess all other folks who like B3D, will eventually take some time until they find some reason to really try bmax and see entirely new world of possibilities... |
| ||
| I've owned every iteration of Blitz including the Amiga version, so I know how nice the Blitz3D language is. So I'm not speaking from the perspective of someone who didn't enjoy Blitz3D. I'm not in any way belittling the language; however, it took me all of a week to make some simple changes to switch to BlitzMax... the biggest thing was realizing how powerful it was to have more than one list for types, and to be able to encapsulate functions and methods within a type (like true class's). Marks fancy register allocation system for the variables speeds things up massively as well. but each to his own... |
| ||
| True, I have to admit: 90% of the reason for me wanting to keep Blitz3D is because I'm accommodated to the easy interface it provides. I'm too lazy right now to learn BMax. Besides, I'm a nostalgic gamer and would like to develop first some great N64-quality games (which won't be hard technologically-wise with Blitz3D). Also, I don't think you can just "jump-in" into Next-Gen without training a lot on the old stuff, which enforces all the principles of colour, texture, shape, narrative, gameplay and etc. The thing that attracts me the most in BMax is the MiniB3D module. It sounds like an improved, cross-platform (and faster) Blitz3D. Imagine being able to LinePick without the slowdown =O~ EDIT: Well, not all the original Blitz3D commands were implemented (some very useful like the CountGfxModes3D, for instance). 3D sounds looks promising though. |
| ||
| Between Xors3d and Fastlibs, I think it's very clear what people who have no roadmap of the internals- but really want blitz to be better can do compared to... well, people with other plans. BlitzMax is the favorite child, plain and simple. A mac users language with cross-compatability yo the old PC legacy. B3d has always been very crippled- intentionally. * No pointers * No access to internals * No save for 3d load formats * No access to geometry for animatable mesh formats. etc. In other words- nothing sharp- no sense coders hurting themselves. Everyone excuses the lack of updates/changes- but... Even if DX9 was impossible (or difficult)- no excuse for not embracing OpenGL. Pick a Physics system- integrate it. Jees! and so on... I own BMax, and really don't see why I should use it instead of C#. Minor advantages versus major compatability. I could even make a C# lib to be Bmax-like if I were inclined- which I am not. B3d was a superset to basic- giving it a lot. I would debate whether Bmax Does the same for... Something C#-ish. Blitz has a successful 1-man product feel to it. An overworked man- but 1 man w/'helpers'. It's going to stay that way I feel. Other products look and deliver like 'professional packages.' Not saying they're better- just saying 'look at their websites.' DarkBasic, Torque- even Realmcrafter's website has more than 1 short page of hype per product, and loads of add-ons/content. And so many place to get access to source it's not even funny- free and commercial. In this day and age of a thousand engines- it's tragic blitz is going to end this way. But a tiny little 'fix this'/'break that' invigoration every 4-6 months (if you're lucky) won't change it. Blitz3d is dead. I'd love to be proven wrong- but seriously- at this point anything short of adding pointers and exposing internals will just be maintaining the 'status quo' which (to me) is- 'hands off the goodies'. |
| ||
| Its not only that... but the entire 2d system in Blitz3D would have to be redone to work with "2D using 3D" architecture that both OpenGL and DX9> require. So Blitz3D would work the same way as BlitzMax anyway (since its Mark's creation). Truely, Is it worth Mark's time and effort to continuously patch a product developed for antiquated technology? or is it better for him to continue adding his magic to his newest creation? |
| ||
| I want the possibility to create a jump table, or the optimisation of the CASE command for use like a jump table. |
| ||
| Truely, Is it worth Mark's time and effort to continuously patch a product developed for antiquated technology? or is it better for him to continue adding his magic to his newest creation? The latter IMO. |
| ||
| the entire 2d system in Blitz3D would have to be redone to work with "2D using 3D" It's been done. Anyone who actually uses the 2D commands either has a different reason, or gets no sympathy. |
| ||
Jiffy say : Blitz3d is dead. Sure ;)) Hahahahahahahahaha !!!     |
| ||
| The language itself really needs to be taken to a more oop structure. I have recently switched (temporarily) from B3d to AS3 and develloping in a proper oop environment is really a breeze when you can parent classes and have functions neatly nested in their corresponding classes. In b3D it becomes increasingly painful to manage each special case in a "switch" statement in the body of the main program and it becomes very difficult when the project becomes bigger. |
| ||
| The language itself really needs to be taken to a more oop structure. Ummmm... but thats what BlitzMax is example: ' B3D Global Player.Ship=new Ship Player:X=0 Player:Y=0 MoveShip() Type Ship Field X# Field Y# Field VX# Field VY# End Type Function MoveShip(s.Ship) s:X=s:X+s.VX s:Y=s:Y+s:vy End Function Look similar?
' BMax
Global Player:Ship=new Ship
Player.X=0
Player.Y=0
Player.Move()
Type Ship
Field X#
Field Y#
Field VX#
Field VY#
Method MoveShip()
X=X+VX ' can also go... X:+VX
Y=Y+vy
End Method
End Type
|
| ||
| ZJP, Laughing maniacly and showing screenshots of a nice, but low-poly, unanimated model in a skybox with some particle action does not make your case. It does look good, though- nice screenshots. I wish you well on your project- and I'm glad that blitz is enough for your needs- but that doesn't change things for a lot of us. I can tell by your work you're a 'mad programmer'. Everyone isn't like you. Don't judge the language by your ability to kludge the hell out of it till you get results. Don't stop- please- you're helping magnificently! But know full well that the average programmer may not get 'Flip False' vs 'Flip True'- more or less write a lib to allow threading because he wants it. Hell, write a pointers lib. Look, Blitz3d (2001) is 8 years old at this point- which alone is reason to consider it obsolete software in some circles. But Mark shipped BlitzPlus in 2003, and BlitzMax in 2004- which shows he has time to code new products, as well as limited support. Anyway. Pretty scenes don't bridge the ever-expanding technology gap. You want to write shaders? Get ready to kludge like hell and reinvent the wheel or shell out some cash. A lot of coders have done for blitz amazing things- but soon as you show me something comparable to Xors/Fastlibs, but gives the source as well (Even Devil's tools (kudos, btw) don't give the DLL source), I'll give you a point. And how long must users beg before they get support? Hell, how long ago was Ashadow? Mark saw that and immediately said "Wow, that's nice- I bet my customers would like that..." BZzzzt! Don't get me wrong- everyone wants to get paid for their time and hard work- I don't blame them. But as a blitz owner you end up having to pay over and over again for features that are FREE to any other proper DLL-handling language user- or worse, part of one of the minimally accessible Windows APIs. Minimally accessible because Blitz won't let you properly 'play'. No pointers or callback means you sometimes have to pay someone who 'wants to get his due' for a wrapper to a FREE library! Free to any 'real' language. Programmers are not liberated- they are shackled- unless you learn everything and do it yourself. What good is a language where everyone must do it all themself- or always be paying for add-ons- when there's free, unusable dlls all over? Don't get me wrong. I like Blitz3d- a lot. But face facts, the list of what you can do is impressive- but the list of what you can't do unless Mark helps out is oppressive. At this point it is way easier to put blitz features into another language than it is to make blitz 'progress-worthy'. No one but Mark can put pointers in- and if they did, they'd prob break at the next update. Mark could do it right. He chooses not to. Not part of his coding 'philosophy' I guess. Not for Blitz3d anyway. But everyone else wants them. Too bad. Deny it all you want, but Blitz is on 3rd Party life support- has been for years. I paid for Fastlibs- a brilliant product from a brilliant coder. I wasted money on Realmcrafter (don't ask). I almost bought Xors, till I decided to go the OpenGl path. Now, after fighting with useless BSP loading and even more sad- pitiful animated mesh handling (animated meshes don't update geometry info) I'm ready to chuck it. You can only go so far as a coder in blitz- unless you like living inside the box, or doing mad work to unbox it. I salute you mad workers. But sad to say, Mark isn't one of them anymore. So Blitz, 'patchwork 3rd party, upgraded- every now & then'- will never be as good as it could be if Mark showed more than passing interest in supporting it. Hell- even for his new son, "BlitxMax" he's given up on the 'official' 3D library 'Max3d?'- the sounding trumpet that spurred many into buying the language. Yeah- I know- plenty of 3d libraries to choose from. They were there before he decided to announce that 'eventually to be broken' promise. But if he can't follow through on features for his favorite son, what really can the 'forgotten child' expect? You'll get more updates. Bugfixes. A feature here. There. Forever. Or till Blitz3d is so outclassed/useless that it's obvious to let go. "Get the paddles. Clear. Shock him. We got a pulse, but it's weak... Good enough." But no matter- you'll still be DX7 limited, with no pointers or proper access to internal data structures. Your BSP and animated mesh support, collisions- will be nothing more than kludgy shadow puppetry, and there's only so much brilliant coding that can be done before you might as well start anew. Or follow someone else's path- using Xors, the bloody clever SoftPixel3d, or some other rendering engine- using Blitz as a virtual 'glue' for accessing it's features and moving forward. Yup- Blitz3d is dead. A dead horse actually. A dead horse that's now good for glue? I hope not. But I guess I should stop beating it, eh? My 'angle' (if you want to call it that) isn't that Blitz3d _needs_ to be dead- it's that it seems it _wants_ to be dead! I mean- at least let the users do it themselves! * Add pointers *implement callback, threading (yeah- I know- 3rd party- but official is good) * make system vars for internals. Let us break shit if we want! * Make a reserved words 2x, once with an underscore trailing (Renderworld, Renderworld_) Anyone who's tried to add functionality, but retain backward compatability can see how this would help. * give geometry access to Load BSP & Load(animated whatever) * Zbuffer access, etc. I think the first 4 would be enough for coders to do most things they'd want. God forbid the language grow and mature. But without those, It's a lot of hard work- if it can be done at all. I guess better to say 'if it's worth doing in Blitz3d vs starting anew elsewhere.' So. Not my call. Mark's call. But 8 years without pointers seems pretty stubborn to me. I think it's been decided. No matter who wants it- why they want it, or how useful it would be to have them, Mark refuses the 'transplant'. No transfusion. An apple sits on the table but the patient's mouth is taped shut. Eventually, the patient dies. You call it. |
| ||
| That's enough for many people. They keep B3d alive.See you in ... eight years? In the future, there will Blitz3D on PDAs, Netbook, etc. .., on machines powerful enough for this engine, but too low for others. ;)) I heard the same thing with VB6 and it is still used. By the way, this is not my project. ;) JP |
| ||
| In the future, there will Blitz3D on PDAs, ... Doubtful... even if they become fast enough to run an emulator, the loss of performance would kill the idea. Max could be if someone puts their mind and effort into it. I've even heard a rumor (could be completely untrue) that someone was developing an iphone compiler. Further, I could really see it running on google android since its already a linux derivative. |
| ||
| The good thing with Blitz3D is that it gets more powerful everytime someone upgrades their system, as the speed of computation increases with the speed of one's processor. :P Antiquated? Check this out, Cobol is still in use today, and for mission critical systems for banks, insurances, transportation, army, government taxation, etc. ... |
| ||
| What does the age of the product matter? Either you want more features, which would mean you want a different tool, which is most likely BlitzMax; or you don't want more features, in which case the existence of BlitzMax and DirectX versions beyond 7 makes not the slightest bit of difference to Blitz3D's ability to solve whatever problem you're working on. It really is one or the other. The idea that Blitz3D (or Algol, or B, or any logical abstraction) can somehow be "dead" (unless Mark sends his ninjas to uninstall it from our computers as we sleep) just because newer products exist is patently ridiculous. Just make up your mind and use whatever you like! |
| ||
| I feel like I have walked into an asylum after reading this thread. |
| ||
| I think what they are referring to is the graphics context, extensibility, and ability of the language to take advantage of technology as it emerges. No matter what, unless Blitz3D can be extended to support newer technologies eventually it will drop from favor and the user base will dwindle... with time |
| ||
| ..i think there is no point to 'proove' how 'this' or 'that' solution is better...people who love B3D and still cant see any reason to move forward, regarding what they are using it for, will stick with it, and thats fine if you ask me..however, as topic pointing, it is obvious that such folks(B3D) already 'feel' necessity for upgrade, and with time, i am very sure, such necessity will be bigger and bigger, much as all fancy next gen features turn to be pretty much normal thing, so in any way, in some future, moving forward will be quite reasonable step, detached entirely from personal attachment tied to B3D..at least thats happen to me.. |
| ||
| well mates, i didn't mean to start a war about this. :P I just supposed there could be a way to update the blitz3d capabilities, working in concert with some of the developers who created many useful libs! Of course there are many products on the market (opensource, freeware and commercial) to be happy with (as far anyone can be just happy with software for gaming), B3D is just one of them. Wishing to have a solution supported is not a crime. cheers, jTassinari |
| ||
| I think most comments are valid - in the end it's to each his own. One (VITAL) topic that didn't get discussed much in this context however is "will my program work on today's version of Windows?" Regardless what type of coder you are, what 3rd party tools you use, or what personal requirements you might have: If your audience/clients/users can't even RUN your program because of Vista or Windows 7 for example, then all the above talk about B3D still being useful (to some) is rendered pretty much useless... I just found out that tests (so far) on Windows 7 don't seen to resolve any of the problems I've had with Vista. So I have no choice but to move on... Thanks everyone, Danny |
| ||
| What kinda problems are people having with vista/win7? my couple of test programs worked fine. |
| ||
| B3d dead long time ago... was killed by his creator..... (he changed Win-3D for mac-linux-2D) Um ok... look the forum.... long time ago a lot of people make 3D project ... now only 2D.... 2D IS THE FUTURE!!!!!! and is you want 3D must buy other engine.... (ha ha ha, i hate 2D) I have been doing 3d in blitzmax for ages (on win3D and Linux3D). -And no i would not buy blitz3d again even if it had all that, simply because Max is better. It is also a proper (stand alone) programming language and has many many more options & uses. I believe blitz3d is "un-upgradable" as it is so intertwined with DX7 (at least that is what i have heard many times). It is basically a DX7 engine with a compilable dedicated "script" rather than a proper language because you cannot use it without the engine (it is always -there- even when using other graphics dlls). If you wanted an updated B3d aparently it would require a total rewrite, followed by all the bugs and revisioning that would entail (remember b3d has had a lot of updates to get it to the high standard it is now). Besides,theres blitzmax and minib3d which is almost the same in most ways (especially, when max is used as OOPless, unstrict BASIC and mb3d is open source so can never really die if you ever need to keep it alive :). If you like programming in classic "Blitz"(plus or 3d) style then simply use BMax without any OOP, without strict and use minib3d (and or) Max2D. Anything that is not -exactly- the same, like Max2D's image drawing or MiniB3d's rotations could be very easily "wrapped" to identically mimic those of Blitzplus or Blitz3d anyway so i dont get why people think it is so much more difficult. Take all the (optional)'advanced' stuff away and it is practicaly the same language. |
| ||
| @Rroff: I wrote an app in B3D using the FastLibraries and winBlitz3D. Under vista I have a serious performance problem on the 2D side, and when Wacom tablet drivers are installed I can't receive mouse input in my viewports. This has to do with bad wacom drivers, but also with vista's Aero being enabled and 'desktop composition' settings... if that makes any sense.. D. |
| ||
| I have to vista computers and have had no problems with Blitz3D at all. I would consider moveing to max but so far theres nothing I cant do with B3D that I want to so I see no point. compatability would make me move to max but Ive not experienced any of these problems. |
| ||
| Question is, how long will dx7 continue working? MS -may- eventually reach a point where the fight to remove bloat might eventually sacrifice "dead lib" support. At least with max you can create a wrapper to another engine. |
| ||
| Probably the biggest problem B3D'ers are having, regarding the move from b3d to bmax is - the lack of a commercially supported 3d engine. Sure theres minib3d and b3dsdk but that's not what people are really wanting so those engines are not given much consideration. These people comparing bmax to b3d obviously can't tell the difference between a car and a truck. Bmax is a successul product, as it should be, it's currently updated and supported and runs fine on the latest OS releases. Blitz3D however is dated, not really supported much anymore and running several of my old projects compiled under B3d on windows7 have yielded horrible results. So it's safe to say b3d is offically dead. I know I wont put another hour of my life into writing code for it. I believe if Bmax officaly backed, supported and maintained an in-house 3d soultion then it would be as popular as Blitz3d. Sure theres leadwerks, flow3d and a few others but people that flocked to Blitz3d are wanting a product supported by this company, not some half assed 3rd party 3d engine that works under bmax. Even if BlitzLTD released a 3d engine module for bamx that performed and acted the same as one of the currently avaiable 3rd party soultions - it would be wildly accepted and choosen over the aformitioned simply because people trust BlitzLTD and want to invest in something they know will ''work'. |
| ||
| not some half assed 3rd party 3d engine that works under bmax Whoa dude... lol Flow3D uses Orge3D + physics and stuff... that is automatically a great product. Visit the web site! Leadworks is an awesome product with all sorts of bells and whistles. Those two above are what I have my eye on... but there are plenty more. The problem with BRL getting Max3D out there is that the competition is BRUTAL and here he has a spiffy language that needs tweaks here and there. The fewer of those that happen will likely focus Mark on the 3D module, but quite frankly at this point if I were he, I would include a wrapper mod for something like Orge3D rather that trying to get a full fledge 3D engine going right away... maybe partnership with Flow3D since its cross platform like the rest of BlitzMax. |
| ||
| I always said an in-house managed wrapper for irrlicht or ogre would be a perfect choice. |
| ||
| Whoa dude... lol Yah I should probably clear that up - wasn't referring to either of those wrappers/engines as half assed.. Just a state of mind. I fully salute halo for making leadwerks what it is today.. I always said an in-house managed wrapper for irrlicht or ogre would be a perfect choice. Thats another option.. At this point anything 'in-house' and offically supported by a recongnized development staff ( such as bLtd ) would be totally embraced. |
| ||
| I think that would tap most of the Blitz3D community over to Max as well, but it would beed to be included in BlitzMax. Personally, I think BlitzMax and MaxGUI should be included in the base package IMHO... but its not my show ;) |
| ||
| Blitz3d does what it says on the tin.Bye it twice with all the gubbins.Em no i am quiet happy how it is,that is how it was made.(my opinion) Be Well |
   |