Blitz units - how big should everything be?
Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Programming/Blitz units - how big should everything be?
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| Hi, I know that this is basically up to me, but is there a standard convention to how big everything should be? I mean, I have a tile system (dynamically placing 3d models next to each other) and all my tiles are about 40x40 big. My models are about 10 units high. I now realize that this might be rather small - I have the camera up close so it looks normal, so it doens't really mather, but I was just wondering anyway. Thanks. |
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| 1 unit = 1 metre is a fairly standard scale. |
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| You will find that most models are built to 1 unit = 1 meter. |
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| 1 meter= 1 unit is also good because of the 32 Bit floating point accuracy will allow you to use pretty small objects, as well as huge ones. |
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| ;- |
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| Make up your own! - Something that fits you. Maybe 1 unit = 50000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, or 1 unit = .00000000000001. That's what I would do. But once you make up your own, don't stray from it. Make everything along that line. |
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| *off-topic And RaGR - where can I get the Terrain Builder listed on your sig? I go to that link, but it takes me to a page with no links on it. |
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| RaGR - I also find Gile[s] default scale frustratiing although you can change it. I use Lightwave for my modeling and when I model something inside it that is 1m long it really is exactly 1m (unit) in B3D too when I convert it with Lee's Convertor. MAX objects are small because it's based on inches... scale/multiply using 254/2540 and things usually get corrected (as 1 inch = 2.54cm). Scaling things in 3D is important also beacuse the Z-buffer accuracy is limited, and not even linear. |
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| @Optomistic - try Total Terrain for your terrain? (my sig) |
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| Thanks people. "And another thing - in case your hero is 1.90 - the camera should be 1.8 high and the camerazoom 1.6 - every other zoom looks like on LSD or completely drunk." Well, I have a different kind of camera system so it works a bit different. But thanks anyway. |
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| RAGR - can't you press Z in Maplet to fine the grid to units down to 0.125 or something? Bysides, Maplet uses a snap grid, so it makes perfect sense. But I agree, for a generic Modeller it should be possible to do small things too. |
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| ;- |
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| I reccomend 1 unit = 1 meter because physics uses the metric system. Gravity pulls down on you with an acceleration of 9.8 meters per second for example. If your game uses a scale other than meters then you will either need to specify gravity in a unit of measure other than meters, or you will need to have a conversion factor you multiply all your physics by, and that is just asking for trouble. |
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| Ok, but then if I would make a map with something like cartography shop, I would best design everything for instance 10 times bigger and then scale it by 0.1? |
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| Probably yes. Or maybe you should make a converter Tool that loads and then saves a rescaled Mesh. Anyway, any Level Builder that let's you merge several Meshes should offer a scale function. |
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| I reccomend 1 unit = 1 meter because physics uses the metric system ... which is why it took Newton so long to 'discover' gravity, because the English were working in feet/pounds. You can choose any scale you like and 'physics' will still work - it's just that you wont be able to lift formulae directly from textbooks, other people's code, etc. You may find that tweaking your own value of gravity will give better aesthetic results than slavishly trying to scale everything at 1u = 1m and using 9.8 m/s/s Given the variety of tools used for modelling, and the fact that many use different base grid-sizes for layout, the idea of standardising may be a non-starter. |
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| I imagine that sswift meant that the metric system is the standard measuring system used with physics equations. |
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| Wings 3D units are the same as blitz3d units |
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| Black: I live in the United States, and we use feet and inches and stuff, but we had to learn about meters and kilometers and other metric measurements in science class, and when I got to physics classes they taught us things like gravity using meters per second. Yes, you can use the empirical measurement system or whatever it's called, but most science texts are in the metric system that I have seen. I did have to convert some weird units when trying to make a flight sim though... everything is in horsepower and something else I forget and it was a real paint in the ass to convert from it to the metric system. "You may find that tweaking your own value of gravity will give better aesthetic results than slavishly trying to scale everything at 1u = 1m and using 9.8 m/s/s" People who don't try to make things to a proper scale end up making stairs that come up to waist height, doorways which are too wide, or too short, and cobblestones which are 2 feet by 4 feet in size. |
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| I agree with sswift about trying to scale everything to real life, but ultimately, whatever makes the game feel right is what's important. Like I remember creating some levels for half-life and if you made, say a house, exactly to scale it wouldn't look right in the game. You had to exaggerate some things. |
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| ;- |
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| @WolRon - like I said :) Whatever fits the game. |
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| Ultra-realistic v. aesthetic is a horses for courses arguement... Think about the scaling tricks going on in Jackson's LoTR films to make hobbits/humans believable. Think about the general over-emphasis of human proportions in 'heroic' depictions (e.g. Superhero comics, fantasy art, etc.) - usually 20% - 40% bulking up beyond sensible human norms. Think how much more satisfying a FPS can be when toting a FBG rather than an accurately rendered AK-47. ... I'm just suggesting that scale is another weapon in your artistic armoury. Suspension of Disbelief can often be aided by 'cheating physics' rather than emulating it. {It's why warp-drives were invented !!} |
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| I reccomend 1 unit = 1 meter because physics uses the metric system ... which is why it took Newton so long to 'discover' gravity, because the English were working in feet/pounds. Haha! ----------------------- It may also depend on the game you are making. For some games may require larger scales than others due to the size of the characters/levels Ultimately, there is no right/wrong, just what works! |
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| . Error - double post, sorry! |
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| "Like I remember creating some levels for half-life and if you made, say a house, exactly to scale it wouldn't look right in the game. You had to exaggerate some things." That's only because of the Camera FOV they chose for the game, and because you're used to seeing things a certain way, and the guns look a certain way in your view. If you play Counterstrike and go to CS_Office, and some guy jumps up on a desk, the monitor there will come up to his WAIST, and the top of the desk is almost at eye level. It looks fine when you're running around, but when someone is standing next to something recognizeable he looks tiny. I'm not saying never use scales that are unrealistic. But even superhero comics use doorways that are the right size... And look at how effective that was in the Incredibles to show how big Mr. Incredible really was, when he would fill his tiny car? Even if you're not going to make everything to scale, there's no reason not to use a scale like 1 meter = 1 unit that makes it easier to specify velocities and things. Even if everything untilately ends up being off by a bit for gameplay, being close at least gives you a frame of reference to start from. |
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| In deciding the scale you need to look at the entire game's requirements. I'm working on a tile based game (full 3D). A large map is about 40x40 tiles and each tile can contain a single unit (human, tank, helicopter etc.). For this project I settled one 1unit=1 tile width. This decision greatly simplified the code as I can work out what tile an object is in by simply throwing away the fractional part of it's x & z coords. tilex=floor(realx) |
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| John: I did the same thing in my tank game. I didn't mean to imply that you should always fit everyhting to a scale of 1 unit = 1 meter. In a realistic game, that is a good scale to use. In a tile based game though... one might want 1 unit equal to equal some other distance. If I was making a tile based RTS, then 1 unit = one meter would be too small if you wanted the tiles to be 1 unit on a side, which I think is a good scale for that sort of game. In that case, 1 unit might be 10 meters. Or 100. |
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| Well, there are a couple of different issues here. 1)Choosing the right scale. and 2)Sticking to it. 1metre = 1 Unit is a decent enough mantra for the latter. To be honest, I don't mind what my artist does so long as he sticks to the same scale*. Rescaling all assets by a fixed amount incurs no overhead. *And plenty of professional game artists seem to have trouble with that. Doors at half the height of the characters etc. |
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| *And plenty of professional game artists seem to have trouble with that. Doors at half the height of the characters etc. Yeah like Lara Croft's washbasin, Some Half-Life tables and NWN pieces of parchment... |
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