The esiest language in the world

Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Programming/The esiest language in the world

Strider Centaur(Posted 2004) [#1]
I was talking to a few people and the subject of learning programming languages popped up. The question was posed what language was easiest to learn. A few said basic, I said your first one, and there were the usuall JAVA and C/C++ cries somewhere way off in the crowd.

After much debate about witch basic was easiest they turned to me, knowing Im a Blitz Basic Fan and asked me what I meant by "your first one". My replay was simple, all be it a bit more complete, "The easiest programming language is the first one you try to learn.". Well after being laughed at I asked them each what was the easiest language for them to learn, with very few exceptions, BASIC. Then I asked them what was the language they first learned to use, and with even fewer exceptions, BASIC. Ironicly the JAVA guys were mostly C or C++ converts, and moving from C++ to JAVA is fairly simple, so naturally they found JAVA very easy to learn.

A study was done in the early 1980s by a University in the Washington DC area on this very subject. Unfortianatly, I have forgotten the schools name ( maybe Georgetown U ). Anyway, they took several new Computer Science studants, seperated them up into language classes. One group was given ASM, the next BASIC and yet another PASCAL. After a period of time ( I beleive a semester ) they switched the studants and what they found was really quite interesting. It seemed that the ASM studants picked up Basic or Pascal very well. Meanwhile, Basic and Pascal studants struggeled with ASM or BASIC ( for Pascal ) and ASM or PASCAL ( for basic ). Even though the ASM studants performed well, when surveyed they said ASM was alot easier than PASCAL or BASIC to learn. The study was repeated a few times and the results stayed constant.

So, if your thinking BASIC will be easier to learn than say JAVA or C++ you may just be fooling yourself. Choosing a language while your mind is free of preconceptions of how things should work is the best time to look for something a bit more versitile. As my dad always said, "shoot for the stars, after all, you can always ketch the moon on the way down.". In fact, if the study has any merrit it would imply learning a, so called, high level language might actually cause you more grief later down the road.

So what do you think?


Strider Centaur(Posted 2004) [#2]
Wow did I goof on posting this one, hehe.

Sorry about the wrong group, maybe a moderator could slip it into General. :)

please?

Thanks.


jfk EO-11110(Posted 2004) [#3]
I think there are several good Languages. Some Basic Variants may be fine, as well as ASM, Pascal, Modula, C, C++, Java. I think it doesn't matter that much what language you are using, byside the question if a compiler can satisfy your technical needs. What really counts is the documentation, concerning the learning curve. You can have a Basic that is complicating things horribly, and in the same time you can have an easy start with C++ or ASM when you have the right Books.

I started Programming with Omicron Basic that came bundled with the Atari ST and it was not only a good Basic, it also had one of the best Manuals I have ever seen. Each command was explained with a very tiny example that actually could be tested.

If you once know one programming language, you pretty much know all of them, so you may learn Basic first and you'll understand Java easily IF you had a good start with Basic.

So I found the Docs of Qbasic miserable, but I had my knowlegde from other products, so it wasn't a problem, byside some hardware specific aspects. BlitzBasics Docs may also not be the final Superlative in the Art of Documentation and it may be kind of hard to get into for complete newbies, but it also isn't that bad, since Blitz offers a lot of commands and power, it's only natural that it may take a little longer. On the PC Platform it is one of the easiest that I know, that offers this kind of up to date power.


Barnabius(Posted 2004) [#4]
I'd say the easiest language is not the one learned first but the one programmer is curently using. It's the same thing as with text/word editors. The one I am using now conTEXT is the best for me but I am sure if I were to use UltraEdit or my previous favourite MultiEdit, they would carry the "best for me" tag.

My first language way back in the early 70's was FORTRAN, followed by HP BASIC, 6502 assembler, FORTH and many others. I always maintaned that once one learns first computer language one is ready to easily learn the rest. It's just a simple matter of adapting to slightly different syntax and keywords.

Barney


Chatty(Posted 2004) [#5]
I learnt on BBC Basic which was specifically created for British Schools (so was the computer) to teach programming and for its time its was excellent, the documentation briliant and I had years of fun (swearing at it).

I've tried Pascal, VB and VB Script and like jfk says, because I had a foundation of BBC basic I found these langauges easy to convert to.

Recently I have been forced to program in Java Script for a course I was taking and I found it horrible! It was supposed to be an introduction into Java which I will need to learn as well - i'm not looking forward to it.

There does seem to be a divide between people who learn basic and those who learn C type langauges and it is hard to swop between the two


Rhyolite(Posted 2004) [#6]
Doh! I learned BASIC at school (first on PET's then on BBC Micro's) then PASCAL at university. According to the survey, no wonder I struggle learning any new languages!!!

I have learnt C and some of its derivatives since then, but never feel as at 'home' with them as I do with good ol' Basic ;). So, looks like there may be some truth in that survey.

Hmmm, but I still think learning your first language is always going to be the hardest, because you have to learn about programming in general. Converting to new languages may be easier or harder depending on what you first learnt, but still going to be easier?? But those second languages may never feel as 'natural' as your first true love!!


Strider Centaur(Posted 2004) [#7]
Great responses, I agree the easiest language to use is the one you are presently using.

While learning your fist language may be harder in the sence of a learning curve, it is often the funnist, and if you are enjoying learning something then there is no amount of complexity you are not willing to endure, as long as it stays fun. You also form preconceptions during this time. You naturally assume things happen this way or that and thats what really hurts people later as thy try to equate new ways of doing things with the ones they know. Example: Many BASIC programmers find C's string manipulations lacking, but in reality its far more versitile than most BASICs at that very thing. While PERL is arguably the best for manipulating strings( a task it was designed to do), many BASIC programmers find it far to complex. This is not that BASIC coders are stupid, they are simply used to the BASIC way of things. Thats the comfort some talk about.

Chatty - Don't let JAVASCRIPT throw you, its not JAVA, not even really all that close now days. If your school is using JACASCRIPT ( a goofed up language that barowed the name JAVA just as a marketing ploy and was, I beleive, created by NETSCAPE) to prepare you for real JAVA programming then I would think about going to another school. There is nothing in JAVASCRIPT that makes leaning JAVA any easier. However, it is a OOP language, so perhaps that is the goal. Still there are far better OOP languages they could have chosen than JAVASCRIPT, many of witch are far more OOP in nature. Perhaps PYTHON or some such.

For me, my favorite language and easiest to use at the time was TURBO C back in the mid 80s. I had learned BASIC as my first language but had been coding in ASM in 6502/6510/Z80/Z8000/TI9900/6800/68000/8080/8088 for so long that I had basicly been cleansed of the hole BASIC way of things, and C was sort of a natural step up from ASM. What made TURBO C my favorite was it was the first IDE I got to use, no more EDIT for coding and DUMP tools for debugging. :)

I sometimes forget how much fun, all be it almost equally frustrting, it was to code in those minimalistic systems where 64K was the cats meow. Now days good code is anything that runs, back then it had to run in less memory than it was possible to put it in. :)

To me, the Atari ST was a fantasic machine, I started with the TI 99/4A and a EAGLE CPM machine. Later got a C64 then a Atari ST, created my first net(over serial) capable game on the ST that used a server based in PBBS ( over dialup modems ) that was a text based galactic game(think old text based Star Treck sim, multiplayer) witch could handle upto 32 people at once, provided the BBS supported that many connections. When I got my first PC in 85, I quickly realized that the other consoles were soon to be dead ends and pretty much stuck to the PC. Hard choice when you went from 256 colors to 16 colors.

Now here we are 20 years later, the languages for me are BASIC and JAVA, I have seen no reason to code in C++ short of meeting requirments by a few customers. My language set is insane now, having to know everything from PERL to ASM to JAVA and be able to work profesionaly in them. Still I stick to Basic and JAVA as much as possible. My beleif is that BASIC, while full of ways to poorly right good code is a very fast language to get something up and running in. While JAVA is far more suited to making something stable, plenty fast enough and easily extended( witch is handy when having to deal with customer feature changes and add ons).

I do have some of advise for any language you may choose to use( 7 golden rules ):
1) Use Functions, Procedures, Subroutines or whatever your chosen language provides you to break up your code into managable chunks aka modules.
2) Always take the extra time to do it right the first time. Don't race to a new function becuase you just got this great idea, simply stop codeing, put the idea in a text document and go back to what you were doing. This has the benifit of later letting you look at the idea before spending hours coding it to see if its really such a good idea, or could be done better some other way. You may even need to get up and do something else after putting this to paper so you can get back on track with what you were doing.
3) Always try to define variables ahead of time, in some languages this is a must anyway (C, JAVA, etc) but in most basics its not. I know many BASIC fans think this is a lot of nonsence, but a simple misstyped variable name, or cryptic ones with no comments make debugging a real nightmare in any project of size.
4) Always be aware of the SCOPE of a variable as you define it. Don't just make everthing GLOBAL. Again this can be a real debugging nightmare when you use the same vaiable name in some function 2000 lines later.
5) Never be affraid to ask for help, not even on the easy things. No matter how many years you have been coding you will never know it all. Even though some of us think we do. :)
6) Related to 4, always thank those who help you. It goes along way to getting more help later, especially on those really complex problems, you know like doing reflections with 3 light sources in a simulated fog with lens flair.
7) I also save the most important for last, COMMENT YOUR CODE! I don't care if its a 10 line loop test or what, no comments will kill any project faster than any amount of complexity. The more people who work on the code, the more important the comments become. I tend to go overboard with mine, as I usually include everything from variable and function description to whole sections on why I do what I do and what ideas pop into my head to do it another way. While I like this, some think it breaks up the code too much sometimes. However, having no comments can make the best code nearly impossible to reuse, even by its own creator.


Ok Im sure there are more than 7, but these seem to be the most overlooked in my experiance. :)


bradford6(Posted 2004) [#8]
easiest language to learn is python

www.python.org

it is cross-platform, widely used, easy to read the source (forces indentation) and fun

i use the interactive interpreter as a calculator.


barryem(Posted 2004) [#9]
I just took a look at python, ala your suggestion and I don't think it would be a very good choice for a beginning windows programmer. I'm sure it's a very nice language but it seems to originate in a unix environment and everything about it is stated in unix terms. That would not only add a new layer of confusion for a newbie but it might make it more difficult to learn a second windows language with a native windows environment.

I'm not speaking against Python per se. I just don't think it is a good choice for someone to start with if they live in Windows and don't expect to migrate from Windows any time soon.

I'm not really convinced that the term "easiest language to learn" makes much sense anyway. The person answering will usually answer in terms of their own experience. My first language was assembly language which I learned back in the '60s. I believe that learning assembly first helped me to be a better high level programmer. But many, maybe even most, teachers of programming; even those who are very fluent in assembly; disagree that assembly is a good first language. They may be right. I may be right. Who knows!

I personally think the best language for a person to start with is the one for which they have the most help from friends or teachers or books. While C is harder to learn than BASIC, if you're around a bunch of C programmers it'll be easier to learn.

I also don't think the choice of first language is a very important one. There are no bad languages. Picking the wrong language is a pretty minor handicap for the curious person.

Barry


Zenith(Posted 2004) [#10]
Easiest language to learn is l33t, but is it useful? XD


BODYPRINT(Posted 2004) [#11]
whi1e no7 k3yhi7(1)
t3x 10,10,"7h1$ l3wt is w00t"
w3n|)

Yeah baby :-)


Dreamora(Posted 2004) [#12]
One of the simplest to learn and most powerfull and clean designed is Eiffel.
After that I would say C# or similar language.

Might be that C++ is not hard to learn as language itself, but all the stuff it has in and that make it a large mess don't help people that really want to learn programming and not just want to learn "code hacking" which is what I normally see when I find C++ code on the net.


N(Posted 2004) [#13]
Easiest language to learn is that one where you make clicking sounds with your tongue.


DNielsen(Posted 2004) [#14]
I learned 6502 and Z80 assembler way back in the golden days of the Amstrad CPC464 and the Commodore 64. In fact, Assembly language is easier for me than Blitz Basic is today ... But then again, I was younger then, and had more focus. Now, with wife, house, kids, cats, and all that, my time is limited.


GfK(Posted 2004) [#15]
The esiest language in the world
Not English, apparently.


Regular K(Posted 2004) [#16]
1337 is better than l33t

wh1l3 n07 k3yh17(1)
73x7 10,10,"1337 15 b3773r 7h4n l33t"
w3n8


Xception(Posted 2004) [#17]
Win 32 Assembly is indeed very simple to learn, much more easier than C++, less data types and structures.
Assembly for DOS is much harder.
Basic? Well, you learn Basic and another "Basic" language is totally different.
Who cares, if you learnt one language you won't have much difficulties to learn another one.


Dreamora(Posted 2004) [#18]
Only if the concepts are the same ;)
I could give you quite much languages you wouldn't even be able to create a simple calculation program ;)


N(Posted 2004) [#19]
Oh wait, here's a good one.

Write something 'good' in that and I'll give you a cookie.


Ion-Storm(Posted 2004) [#20]
Begginers All purpose Symbolic InstruCtion Language


Strider Centaur(Posted 2004) [#21]
Yes Ion that is what it means, but that is no gaurantee that its simple.

I think the point made is that learning a language is never EASY. Usually you spend many hours pooring over documentation and sorce code examples. This before you can really put a langauge to use. This seems to apply to BASIC as it does any langauge. The question then becomes, what language did you enjoy learning the most, because, that will be the one you are most likely to say was the easiest, regardless of how time consuming and confusing it might have been.

Noel, there is a language called FORTH that is very powerful and yet so unlike just about everything else out there, that even the most advance programmer could have real problems getting used to it. You know, reverse polish notation, limited number of lines per page and width per page. Still when it comes to math, its not a bad language. I used this langauge alot on my TI99/4A till I got the assembler. It was also included on many SUN Sparc stations in the monitor bios.

And to GFK, yea, my english( spelling ) is the worst, but what I lack in spelling I more than make up for in sheer volume of letters. :)


PetBom(Posted 2004) [#22]
@Strider Centaur
I agree with you that JavaScript (or JScript or any languages based on the ECMA-262 specification) is a really poor way to introduce JAVA. Even the OOP argument doesn't really hold, since JavaScript is not object oriented (no classes or inheritance) but rather object based (or prototype-based). If anything, I would say that JavaScript would be a better primer for leaning C#. Chatty - drop that course.

However:
a goofed up language that barowed the name JAVA just as a marketing ploy

I definetly disagree that JavaScript is a goofed up language. I think it's a great language with some really neat features. Quite powerful too. Sadly it has been diluted by the fact that it is used by a lot of people who has no idea of what they are doing, just to create some lame effect on their webpage. But if you look at the language and its construction you'll realize that it's quite a neat language. I've done some really clean and clever things in JavaScript that would be a lot more difficult and messy to implement in another language.


soja(Posted 2004) [#23]
Begginers All purpose Symbolic InstruCtion Language

actually, "Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code"
=)


aab(Posted 2004) [#24]
I donno, Blitz really helped me get into C++.
i've been C++'ing for about three/four weeks now and im pretty confident my game'll be finished soon (crappy space shooter of course): but withought the easy learning of how the system works which i picked up with Blitz, i would have absolutely no idea how to use a Struct, loop, or any of the start off things: nevermind move an animated object about the screen firing at one in the centre with heat seeking alpha rockets that trail off after a few seconds, although saying that, its not even a difficult thing..
i think the best thing to do is learn the basics in basic, then move onto a new level.


WendellM(Posted 2004) [#25]
^^ I like the idea of it being "BASIL" - sounds tasty. Then we could have "Pasta" instead of "Pascal." Since both languages have gotos, there could be some *real* spaghetti code :).

As for easiest language, surely it's APL, which stands for "A Programming Language." As these examples show, it's incredibly easy to understand <heh>:




Barnabius(Posted 2004) [#26]
You forgot to mention APL is read from right to left... ;)

Barney


GW(Posted 2004) [#27]
Actually, I think you'll find that university studies have shown many times that Lisp and Scheme are the easiset languages to learn and students who learn these languages first do a lot better with other languages and other CS concepts later on.


dynaman(Posted 2004) [#28]
> I think you'll find that university studies have shown many times that Lisp

I can't see how anyone would think lisp was easy to learn. I considered it something of a form of torture. Sure the basic idea is a piece of cake, but getting all the (profanity deleted) brackets lined up was a nightmare.


aab(Posted 2004) [#29]
One thing i think that'd make basic even easier would be the ignoring line end chars in the code when compiling (cept for commentary//)
I really like the advantages you get with it.


Chatty(Posted 2004) [#30]
The course i've started is an open university degree course in computing, which at level 1 (which i'm currently at) is supposed to just give a flavour of various computer subjects - including programming. A few of us argued it would be better to learn C as a) it was a proper computing langauge and b) was a better introduction to Java. I can't complain though I did get 92% on the assignment. Just to confuse matters I also have to learn a language called 'small talk' - has anyone heard of this language much less used it?


Rottbott(Posted 2004) [#31]
Brainfuck is probably easiest to learn - but what can you do with it? C or C++ aren't really hard - the difficult bit is learning all the poxy libraries you have to use to actually get anything done.

C# is like a cleaner version of C++, with .Net support meaning no more inconsistent, difficult libraries to learn. Blitz3D does the same sort of thing but with a more limited language and a more specific set of libraries.


Strider Centaur(Posted 2004) [#32]
Small Talk was real popular in the mid latish 90s.

Though I have never used it, I do seem to remember it was highly thaught of as a OOP languane at the time. Im a bit confused why they are insisting on teaching fairly useless languanges by todays standards. Sounds like they developed there CS classes in 1995 or 1996 and have not changed them to keep pace with the real world. :(

JAVA is kind of the new kid on the block and a University not teaching that is sort of excusable, but surely they could have gone with something a bit more 1999+ than small talk and JavaScript.

Not using C# I wonder how it is as a cross platform non-MicroSoft language. Given windows will someday no longer be a issue, I would not want to get trapped in a deadend language. Granted I too beleive that Windows has another 5 to 10 years on it. But as consoles continue to destroy the home PC game market in the comming years, Microsoft will not be the only Major OS to write for. *shrug*


barryem(Posted 2004) [#33]
I haven't used smalltalk either but I've read that it was the original OOP language; the language from which the OOP concepts derived.

I'm not an OOP programmer, although I have said "Oops!" many times while programming. :)

Barry


John Blackledge(Posted 2004) [#34]
Noo.....!!!!
WendellM, the nightmares had almost stopped after 10 years!
Now they've started again thanks to you.....
You had to go and mention (gasp) A... P... L....


danjo(Posted 2004) [#35]
lol strider
"And to GFK, yea, my english( spelling ) is the worst, but what I lack in spelling I more than make up for in sheer volume of letters. :)"

i constantly see lots of errors in your posts. you seem to like the word, albeit <- this is how its written.

every time you write the word witch ( which by the way is wrong ), i cringe.


RiverRatt(Posted 2004) [#36]
Just tried Forth. You can defenetly coun't that one out as being easy to learn.

By the way. A good programer should have alternative ways of spelling. Don't ya think?


Rottbott(Posted 2004) [#37]
Not using C# I wonder how it is as a cross platform non-MicroSoft language. Given windows will someday no longer be a issue, I would not want to get trapped in a deadend language. Granted I too beleive that Windows has another 5 to 10 years on it. But as consoles continue to destroy the home PC game market in the comming years, Microsoft will not be the only Major OS to write for. *shrug*
Huh? Either this is drivel, or you've really confused me.

By the way. A good programer should have alternative ways of spelling. Don't ya think?
Quite the opposite.


Strider Centaur(Posted 2004) [#38]
Rottbot, my point is that Im not using C# so have no clue about it. Additionaly I pointed out that the PC as a game console is on the decline, actuall has been for a little while now, and that if C# was a Microsoft only language( as in windows ) didn't see a need in learning it for game coding.

Oh

Then I shrugged. :)


RiverRatt(Posted 2004) [#39]
"Additionaly I pointed out that the PC as a game console is on the decline"
I don't believe a word of it. Where did you get that idea?


Strider Centaur(Posted 2004) [#40]
RiverRatt
"I don't believe a word of it. Where did you get that idea?"

When the sales of PC games went into decline over 2 years ago and have continued to decline. Just take a look at any trade journal, or draw your own conclusion by visiting any store that actually deals in games. Console game sales is where the money is, and there is a strong after-market for console games. The PC will be around for a while as a tool for developers and there will be some games for it, BUT the console is presently, and will continue to be more so, the platform that most game producers are shooting for.

There was a time when most console games from major publishers had PC counterparts. Today, that is a rare thing, and very few PC games, save those that have some special requirement that todays consoles just don't offer, are ported to the consoles. These special requirments will not be a issue on the next gen consoles from Sony and Microsoft ( one can assume Nintendo will as well).

However, the SINGLE BIGGEST CLUE was the XBOX, why would a company who already has the Monopoly on the PC market even concider the Console Market if it did not pose some form of real threat? Why not just make all those killer titles for the PC instead? It would have saved them Millions and the profitts would have been just as good. The reason is that Microsoft is smart, they may be many things but not dumb, and are addressing the threat now, before it turns into another Netscape or JAVA on them.


Bot Builder(Posted 2004) [#41]
Easiest language to learn is that one where you make clicking sounds with your tongue.
No actually, in the language of the 'Kung' that involves clicking (to not disturb hunted animals), they differintiate like 30 differnt click noises. not easy.

Anyway, I've been going on a tour of languages recently cuz BMAX isnt out and I want something lower-level than blitz. My main frustration is with the lack of IDEs.. All the interpreted languages use interactive shells. WHY? WHY?!? why not make a highlighting ide with a compile button with about the same size exe... I've been looking at python, java, C, C++, C#, haskell, and SML... Anyway, python looks easy but it confuses me why anyone would want the shell except for a glorified calculator. haskell is plain confusing... sml is making tiny amounts of since. "variables" are non-changing though 0-o. C# is wonderful but not compatible enough, C++/C dont have garbage collectors. And since I am used to C# I'll probably write super memory leak code. I think from the selection C++ is the best choice even if it is receding atm. Cross-platform, fast, OOP... the only bad part is no Java-like properties or garbage collection. True, API usage is a pain but I'm getting some books for that :D

I started Programming with Omicron Basic that came bundled with the Atari ST and it was not only a good Basic, it also had one of the best Manuals I have ever seen. Each command was explained with a very tiny example that actually could be tested.
Hehehe, me too :D not sure if it was called omicron but it was on the ST.


Dirk Krause(Posted 2004) [#42]
GFA Basic, that was. It was absolutely great.


RiverRatt(Posted 2004) [#43]
Has anyone here seen Alambik. It looks good, has all kinds of neat things. It's a scripting language like html, but is good for 3d and 2d graphics, mirors in objects, you can combine 2d and 3d, and has some nice lighting efects, and more like the the fact that the internet is its best medium. If PC games are truly on the decline then that might be good second language to learn. Unfortunatly there seems to be 0 suport for it at this time.

Bot builder have you tried the D language. The creater says it is the next generation language and is more powerful than C++ or C yet easier to learn, and has a built in garbage collector. I'm not ready for such a monster my self
but mabye in the future...

On topic so far the easiest language to learn is Blitz 3D!


Strider Centaur(Posted 2004) [#44]
If you guys ever try JAVA, Id recomend also trying Eclipse as the IDE, its alot like using the Blitz IDE, that is if the Blitz IDE had a billion more features and you had to manually key in the path to all your project libs. With that one exception, Eclipse is really nice.


Nmuta(Posted 2004) [#45]
gfk wrote:

[quote]The esiest language in the world[quote]
--Not English, apparently.

lol...took the words right out of my mouth!!! "unfortianatly"....

Good conversation, though. Food for thought.
I'm glad to hear that there is a good IDE for Java. If I ever get back into it, that would be nice. I was coding Java in a text editor,and I found that since it was so strongly typed, and so unforgiving, I was prone to simple syntax errors. Syntax highlighting would help with that, at least in terms of speed when coding.

Although, from what I hear, Java has had its heyday already and its popularity may be waning. C++ may have more longevity. We'll see. Lots of programmers dislike Java.


RiverRatt(Posted 2004) [#46]
I have tried Java (well now I know it was Java script).
I don't see whats so great about it.

Why don't you try Alambik. I would like some opinions about it from some "real" programers. The editer is clean like blitz, and there are some very nice 3d and 2d samples showing it's abilities. http://www.the-demo.com


Strider Centaur(Posted 2004) [#47]
Nmuta:
Although, from what I hear, Java has had its heyday already and its popularity may be waning. C++ may have more longevity. We'll see. Lots of programmers dislike Java.

Well there are lots of programmers that dislike every lanuage. We call them Zelots, well when they dislike the languages we like anyway. :)

JAVA is the language today, if your looking for work, and I don't see this changing in the next year or so. Not saying JAVA is perfect or that there is a shortage of jobs in C++ or VB for that matter, but searching most job sites tends to show JAVA in the lead. On the decline? Well that may be, don't see it here, but I suppose it can be happening.

RiverRatt:
Thanks for the link, will be looking into that.


Strider Centaur(Posted 2004) [#48]
RiverRatt:
Reading over the manual it looks like you could do alot with it. The syntax is clean, sort of a cross betwean BASIC and PEARL. However, its not really my cup of tea as it seems far to tied to the web as a media. Proabably rocks where its designed to be used, multimedia, but not as a general programming tool.

As for whats so great about JAVA? nothing. That is if you don't need what its great at. There is no one language for all tasks. I think I stated someplace that the mark of a great programmer is simply knowing when to use the right tool for a project, regardless of personal bias.

JAVA does have some nice features, like garbage collection, huge amounts of support on platforms where most languages offer very little, and a massive user base who can just about answer any question you can think of. But none of that matters is you don't need any of it.


aab(Posted 2004) [#49]
I'd like to know exactly what console game developers mainly use....


RiverRatt(Posted 2004) [#50]
http://www.mgforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-9546.html
well I did a search. The most popular consol for game developers is PS 2. Who can argue with google.

Strider Centuar: Did you notice the sample section of Alambik. It does some nice graphics and while it's not aparent at the site, the documentation stresses that it is not just for internet, its cross platform, and Multi content.


Strider Centaur(Posted 2004) [#51]
Yea, it looks good and I might concider it if Im going Multimedia on a project. Thats when I tend to do my language research, just before entering into a project.

All Im saying is presently Blitz3D and JAVA are able to handle all the types of things Im doing presently. Mostly I get jobs finding ways to do complex looking things in some overly simplistic way that simulates doing it right for speeds sake. If that makes sense to you. :)

More often then not, I get paychecks, but seldome get credit as a developer on a project because my code is not used, tho they often use the technique. No complaints, because I get to see some very interesting brain teasers, not all in games.

The real fact is that most of this stuff is reused from the 80s, its like people forgot everything we learned back then or something? But hey, if they want to pay me to redo a concept published 20 years ago in Byte Magazine and bring it up to todays standards to deal with a problem, who am I to complain? And yes, I always give credit to all my source rederences.


RiverRatt(Posted 2004) [#52]
"Mostly I get jobs finding ways to do complex looking things in some overly simplistic way that simulates doing it right for speeds sake. If that makes sense to you."

Yes it does make sence to me. Thats how I got into blitz 3d in the first place. I thought even if I would not be able to make a game that looks as good as a game development team can produce I could use blitz for a game document to express a game idea, the look, interface, storyline ect...
One thing I have leared since then is ideas are the easy part.