BlitzODE - ARKON
Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Programming/BlitzODE - ARKON
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| [EDIT] Ok some folks felt that this post was a little 'harsh' on Arkon so I'll try again... Firstly Arkon you've done a great job with the BlitzODE wrapper, this thread is purely to draw your attention to the concerns of some users that wish to use your wrapper in their projects. Unfortunately some people are thinking of abandoning BlitzODE which is a huge shame considering the effort you've put into the wrapper. The main concerns are with the freezing bug which I understand has been fixed but not yet released, the workload you have undertaken by releasing several different incomplete wrappers within a short period of time and the release of any modified ODE source code which is necessary under the ODE license. It is important to stress that according to the ODE license, any modified ODE source code must be supplied with the wrapper/final product. While I understand that working on these wrappers is a huge task and you probably don't have much time on your hands, it would be greatly appreciated if you could spare the time to address these issues either here or at the Player Factory forums. Thanks. ...and Mods it takes an eternity for the BlitzODE thread to load now (170+ posts with code and images), isn't it about time for a new one? Some of us are still stuck with 56K connections ya know ;) |
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| I agree with everything you said, and have been thinking this for a couple of weeks now. However - get out the dark ages, 56k lol (j/k) :P |
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| get out the dark ages, 56k lol I'm still waiting for BT to get their butts into gear, I guess living in the middle of nowhere doesn't help much though ;) |
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| I've been lurking around here for a while now and it's not very often I post, but I feel I have to. People abandoned ODE when Vorderman developed it, too, mainly because they couldn't be bothered to put the work in to make it work - for example, how many people attempted to fix the rear wheels turning problem and posted up solutions? Vorderman did a great job and everyone dissed that because of the stability problems ... again, no-one tried to fix it did they? Just sat around and moaned about it. If you don't have the ability to fix it, posting moans isn't going to help anyone. { me hides the bit about ODE licencing because Parrot talked crap and got it all wrong ... kindly pointed out below ;) } I think Arkon has done a great job so far, but perhaps the organisation is lacking a little .. the guy ain't Microsoft, he's trying his best and you should probably cut him some slack. I've got a lot of respect for you rIKmAN, but repeatedly posting "RIP ODE x2" isn't exactly productive or encouraging, is it? I know you say you're trying to help Vip3r, but why should Arkon stress over whether or not people abandon it? It's still a WIP and he's still working on it.. if people can't accept that his project will take a longer time than they think, that's their loss. |
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| "that's if you modify the actual ODE dll though, nothing to do with wrappers or game code.. I'm not quite sure what you're telling the poor guy in this one, since he hasn't altered the ODE code itself he's just written a wrapper." What you smoking Parrot? I don't see the original ODE DLL being called from from a wrapper, it's all rolled up into one. If thats not modifing the ODE code base and redistributing it I don't know what is. Look at how sweenie did tokamak for how it's done properly. I'll email Russell Smith author of ODE and see what he has to say. |
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| Man this dude needs a valium. Three unfinished 3d engines and a unfinished physics wrapper in a month? Finish one, then release the next. please. otherwise it's all a bit pointless (In terms of it being usable by people. not knocking the code.) |
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| Man this dude needs a valium. Three unfinished 3d engines and a unfinished physics wrapper in a month? Finish one, then release the next. please. otherwise it's all a bit pointless (In terms of it being usable by people. not knocking the code.) EpicBoy must be gnawing off his hands to the elbows with frustration at not being able to reply to that :) |
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| did epic boy get a permanent ban or something? |
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| Ok PsychicParrot, I understand and agree with your point of view, this is why I started this thread in the first place. It certainly isn't intended as a moan at Arkon. People abandoned ODE when Vorderman developed it, too, mainly because they couldn't be bothered to put the work in to make it work - for example, how many people attempted to fix the rear wheels turning problem and posted up solutions? I've been around here a while too, unfortunately I don't remember Vorderman's wrapper. However, I feel I've put at least some effort into keeping the current BlitzODE wrapper alive by providing a simple car demo which people can use as a guide for their own projects. The demo also provides a solution to the rear wheel steering, which is a problem that can occur with this wrapper too. These are things we as a community can help each other to fix. But some of the problems with the current wrapper cannot be fixed externally in this way afaik, for example the notorious freezing bug which will kill any functionality BlitzODE has and prevent anyone from using it. that's if you modify the actual ODE dll though, nothing to do with wrappers or game code.. I'm not quite sure what you're telling the poor guy in this one, since he hasn't altered the ODE code itself he's just written a wrapper. We don't know if the source has been modified because Arkon hasn't responded when asked about it. Besides I'm not sure that ODE comes in a pre-compiled dll form, otherwise it would be just a case of making a userlib declaration for each function, which I'm pretty sure is not the case. If it is modified and the source is not provided then again BlitzODE cannot be used as this is not allowed under the ODE license. Arkon must be very busy and that is perfectly understandable, but seemingly totally ignoring the questions and requests from users of the wrappers he produces will only serve to discourage people from using them, in particular his future wrappers. This is ultimately why this thread is here, to bring these feelings to his attention and prevent this from happening. It's still a WIP and he's still working on it.. You see that's the problem, how do you know he's still working on it? He hasn't posted in any of the ODE threads for a long while now. I don't want to see BlitzODE abandoned by the community and I doubt Arkon would, so let's hope he notices this thread and puts us all straight, me included. Oh, and can you fellas stay on topic, this isn't a 'what happened to epicboy?' thread nor is it a 'let's flame Otacon' thread, thanks :) |
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| Oh, and can you fellas stay on topic, this isn't a 'what happened to epicboy?' thread nor is it a 'let's flame Otacon' thread, thanks :) If you're that precious, maybe you should email Arkon to avoid any possibility of outside interference. He does have an email address on his profile. |
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| Back when I wrote the original ODE DLL there was no way to call functions from within Blitz as you can now - using a DECLS file etc... - so it was necessarily more clunky to create and modify than the newer Tokamak system. I too emailed Russell to see what the siuation was re. wrapping the DLL, and all I got back was a very brief and rude reply telling me to read the licence doc. What a polite chap he must be. VIP3R : I'd love to see the ODE system brought up to date and completed, and Arkon has done some great work on it, but jumping around bitching about it is not helpful, nor is that list of things that Arkon is apparently not doing (or not doing fast enough for you). Personally if you had posted that lot up after I made the first ODE wrapper I would have been more than a little annoyed, especially after putting in all the initial effort and releasing it for you to use. I'm sure you didn't mean it but your initial post has slightly the wrong tone to it. |
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| EpicBoy must be gnawing off his hands to the elbows with frustration at not being able to reply to that :) That man types by sheer force of evil thought alone. He is darth vadar without the nice side. I never knew you were his pet human? :) |
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| PsychicParrot: Respect? For me? er...why? :D hahah! ;) Anyway, as has been said I don`t doubt arkons coding abilities, but releasing the amount of wrappers he has in the last month, finishing none of them really, will only serve to make people steer clear of anything else he releases. This would be a shame as he no doubt has talent! |
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| That man types by sheer force of evil thought alone. He is darth vadar without the nice side. I never knew you were his pet human? :) Wookie, if you don't mind. |
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| But they have hair. Surely a clash of ideologies. |
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| rIKmAN .. you are a fine coder - I've seen the evidence!! :) Vip3r - perhaps it's just the way the post comes across ... it just all seems very negative when he is obviously trying his best. I know you don't intend it to, but it just IS quite negative :( I don't have the knowledge to actually do very much in terms of helping / coding etc. and I know that DLL wrapping like this is a very difficult thing to do.. so if theres a danger of Arkon getting offended by any posts on BB, I'd like to do my best to support his work in the only way I can ... which is just to be here and say "Oi!"! :) |
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| Sybixsus: If you're that precious, maybe you should email Arkon to avoid any possibility of outside interference. Actually your comment gave me a little chuckle but I don't want this thread turning into yet another flame war because when it comes to Antony you lot just can't resist. And I ain't precious, it's like water off a ducks back so don't take it personally Sybixsus or you Ruz :) Antony: But they have hair. And you can stay on topic too hippy :P |
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| No worries PsychicParrot, like I said I understand. [EDIT] Vorderman & PsychicParrot: I've edited the initial post which hopefully doesn't sound too negative this time ;) |
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| Cool. I'd love to see the ODE system as reliable, stable and bug-free as the Tokamak system - the carwheel joints are great fun to play with and you can get a pretty nice car system very easily (at least for slower cars - haven't tried any of the rear-wheel-steer fixes yet). |
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| I haven't found any problems with the ODE Wrapper, I have almost finished integrating it into my World Editor (Demo this week) and find it stable. I think Arkon did a great job and it's free! |
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| Apologize for long silence...:) At present beside me appeared the organizing difficulties, in connection with preparation of documentation on english. Because of this is postponed output to commercial version of wrapper, in which no "freeze" of objects. In a short time the documentation will be done. |
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| Translation: Please wait while I setup PAYPAL I'm glad to hear it's just a money thing, I was worried it was something else. ODE documentation is already in english www.ode.org. We welcome our new capitalistic overlord. 8) |
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| LMAO!!! I hope you're wrong, Wayne ;) |
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| poo.. i cant beleive hesa gona charge for it! oh well, still, dude, tis a GRANDE JOB! :D |
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| How much 450 rubles ? 600 rubles ? |
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| I don't think Arkon is allowed to ask money for the ODE wrapper; perhaps he should check the ODE license first. |
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| That's what I was thinking Jeroen. That sounded like some sort of babblefish translation, if so maybe it has misinterpreted what he means? Anyway, thanks for posting Arkon :) |
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| I do not break any license agreements, because i not modify an original code of the ODE and I sell only wrapper - the module for a call of functions from the ODE of library. :) |
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| How much you are going to charge for the commercial version? |
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| 2Wayne I think he has all rights to charge some money for this wrapper! He is proffesional programmer, and lives only for money that he gets from developent. I hope u understand what i mean? Of course, if u want, u can wrap it yourself...ODE sources and DLLs available on http://www.ode.org ..or just pay $19 to him for his time, spent for developent... |
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| First, I'm also a professional programmer, and have no problem with Arkon charging some money for his efforts, and I'd be happy to buy it for $19. Second, the ODE license is confusing and probobly better left to someone who understands contracts. After reading it one could argue both for and against source being required. Third, will the purchase price of $19 include wrapper source? This would allow the buyer to recompile should ODE be updated, or wrapper need to be customized, or provide source in the event it's required by the license. Lastly, Thank you Arkon and @rtur for responding. |
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| Any estimate on release Arkon ? Great job by the way |
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| Arkon, If I wanted to own Blitz ODE Wrapper, market it and sell it, how much might you charge ? - The above question probobly doesn't belong here - - Arkon please reply via email if you wish, as I'm unable to reach you - |
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| Wayne, ive sent mail to you. |
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| firewall may have blocked .ru please resend thanks |
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| resend |
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