Which one's better?.....Blitz3D...DarkBASIC Pro....3D GameStudio..?!?
Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Programming/Which one's better?.....Blitz3D...DarkBASIC Pro....3D GameStudio..?!?
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| Hi Guys... Just wanting to get your opinions as to which one's better? Blitz3D...DarkBASIC Pro...3D GameStudio?!? Please give your reasons as to why you think which one's better! Give Details.. My friend is considering to buy Blitz3D, But he wants to get some objective opinions first before doing so...So please be kind and help my buddy out ok?! Also..This thread isn't meant to upset anybodt here. Just asking for your kind opinions and such..Many thanks guys...! |
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| Blitz is alot more stable and it's syntax is more meaningful. Blitz's updates when released are tested so usually always work, without needing to be patched again. That's comparing blitz to dark basic pro. Don't know anything about the games creator. I believe Blitx has the abilty to create commericial quality games and is the most powerful of them, as there has been quite a few titles made by blitzers. My two cents :D |
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| Blitz is the clear winner and has been for a long time now. It also has made a list of published games as long as your arm - a test of it's stability. |
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| I suggest your friend downloads a demo of each of the programs, and makes his own decision. When you ask someone who use one of the programs they are always biased towards that one (here people are obviously Blitz fans), and tend to overlook some of the good points in the competing products. In the end a lot of it comes down to personal taste. |
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| Well, you are bound to get a biased view but: Blitz Pros - Very stable - Logical syntax & command names - Fast Blitz Cons - Lacks newest 3D technologies - Plugin support not as good DBPro Pros - Very up-to-date (DX9 HLSL / FX shaders) - Excellent plugin support - Wealth of features... - Fast on modern PCs DBPro Cons - ... many features buggy / only half-there - Horrible syntax & length commands (PERFORM CHECKLIST FOR OBJECT LIMBS) - Slow on some PCs. (&System Incompatibilities) |
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| DB Pro has more features than Blitz, but the language syntax and structure sucks donkey balls, and I'd be willing to bet that ir runs quite a bit slower as well. |
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| Yeah... I got both Blitz3D & DarkBASIC Pro & also 3D GameStudio. I have done my own test and have found that Blitz3D is indeed very stable and easy to understand and you can get an idea implemented fairly fast using it! DarkBasic Pro on the other hand does has many nice features and all if you can get them to work half the time...I've found that usaully when darkbasic pro posts an update to DBPro that it usaully fix's a few issues and then make other existing ones have bugs again...You normally have to wait untill the next update untill thoes bugs are corrected again.. And their BSP handling for DBPro is horrible!!! Their test demo is nothing more than a plan open room with nothing in it at all and it only gives a total frame rate of only 24 fps...That really isn't good at all if you want to make levels using BSP formats.. Lee Bamber did say in a email to me though that the BSP issue's are going to be dealt with in update 6 through 7 though! 3D GameStudio is also a very stable system as well..But it's based off of the language C though.. They do supply you with most of the development tools you need in order to create any type of game though, that is a nice setup on that part!! But Im' personaly comfortable using Blitz3D! Does anybody know when Mark Sibly is going to bring Blitz3D up to spec in comparison to that of the features in DBPro? Just curious??? Many Thanks again guys... |
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| Does anybody know when Mark Sibly is going to bring Blitz3D up to spec in comparison to that of the features in DBPro? You mean when is he going to break 50% of the language,introduce a lot of bugs and start charging to fix them? I hope NEVER. Besides I'd hate to see this forum become a vipers nest like the competitors forums. Doggie Tell your friend to Choose Blitz. He WON'T be sorry. |
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| Well, the god points have already been stated here, so I will add a new CON to Blitz3D because I think it is important... with DBPro, there are usually announcements of what will be in the next update. In Blitz3D, we don't really know ever if there will ever be a 1.86 version. Mark usually does not talk too much about what he is doing. That was good a year ago, when Mark was surprising all of us with awesome new unexpected features (the .b3d format, BSP support, etc). Now, the last update has simply taken TOO MUCH time to be released, and nobody knows anything about future updates... maybe BlitzMax, new's Blitz Research programming language, will come soon. |
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| I would consider it a PRO, that Mark doesn't want to make promises, which he may not be able to deliver on for one reason or another. There is no point speculating about the future of B3D and Blitz MAX. Blitz MAX doesn't exist and B3D will be useful for years even if there never was another update. Andy |
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| I don't mind that Mark doesn't tell us what he's up to as long as Blitz 3D is usable and stable in its current incarnation, which it is. The product I paid for works exactly as advertized. I consider the free updates gravy. Most of the people begging for DX9 features haven't even used the DX7 features to their fullest. If you have crummy artwork, modeling and animation, there is no way pixel shaders are going to help your game. I've looked at all the other tools and Blitz is the only one I feel is capable of creating a commercially releasable product with. Do the other tools list what games they were used in? |
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| Blitz3D is STABLE and FAST Stability is GOD in the world of programming. When a command does not work the way it is supposed to it could suck DAYS from your programming work. Gameplay is GOD. All the pixel shaders in the world will not fix a game that is no fun to play. BLitz does everything (minus 2 or 3) things that anyone needs to write a commercial quality app |
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| I've used a couple of languges in my quest to find a programming langugage that will help me create a game and Blitz is so far the best I've come across. But the best thing for your friend to do is download the demos for each of the languages he wants to use and make a simple 3D or 2D game that test out the features of both. I personally like Blitz because it's stable and easy to understand. I also like the fact that Mark doesn't spend too much time telling us what's going on Because I belive he should spend all his time improving the Blitz languge. Also one thing to consider is that Blitz does not yet support the latest computer 3D effects, if this is something you are looking for or think you will need. Personally I don't think all the latest 3D effects are really that important unless you are making some kind of demo. For making a game you're going to be stressed enough coming up with nice looking characters, sounds, items, story, environments, and game design, that if you're really serious about making and compelting a game, the latest 3D effects will probably be last on your list of priorities. But anyway just get your friend to download the demos and let him decide. Good Luck. And may the Blitz be with you. |
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| 3d Gamestudio --- Hmm no comment DBP --- much bugs with no fun the rest u know |
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| I have all three apps in question and here is my take on them. I really enjoyed using Blitz3d for a project that I started but never finished. The language is fun and well thought out. I can't get into Darkbasic Pro. I've tried but there is just too much wrong with it. So, I'll have to wait for a while, until the system isn't so full of bad suprises. I absolutely love 3dGS. I think my biggest attraction to 3dGS is due to its extremely high level commands in a mid level language. Much more of a generic game is figured out for you to begin with. If you want to define it through a language you can work it out through c/c++ if you're so inclined. Or you can work it out through cscript or any language that can create a dll. You've got templates already included in 3dGS that do things like AI and animation states. CScript will allow you code the game from quasi mid level, to high level. IMHO CScript is as well thought out and structured as Blitz3d. But it also supplies many of the high high level commands that I would want from Blitz3d. Commands like the physics command set, the different shader commands (which are currently in beta) etc... You even have a publish button that will pack and encrypt your game and all of its resources for cd distribution. 3dGS definitely has it's drawbacks, but for my purposes it's pro's seriously outweigh its con's. |
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| When I searched for 3D game engines on the Internet, I came first across 3D Game Studio. I tried the tutorials, which are fine. But I think the level building is slow. And I couldn't find much info about those "abilities" or what they were called (can't remember). Also the demos supplied with the demo-package are not that special. I think a demo version MUST prove what the full package CAN do. When I came across Blitz3D, I downloaded the demo and was very impressed. The demos supplied were pretty good. I'm still making adjustments to the driver-demo to understand the package, to test out some code, ... A while back I bought a version of DarkBASIC (don't know which one anymore). The installation was over 400Mb and even the interface looked like it was running at 320x240. Odd looking menus (big pixels in the text) and it has many bugs. I removed DarkBASIC immediately from my harddrive and never inserted the CD again in my pc. When you let me choose between those 3 packages, Blitz3D is my favorite. You can do everything (and maybe more than) those other packages can do. You don't have to understand C/C++ to write a game (unlike 3DGS, which is much like C). When your friend chooses for Blitz3D, he surely won't regret it. |
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| There are other games engines to look at. 3D State Engine found at: http://www.3dstate.com and the Torque engine - which has a new demo out by the way, at: http://www.garagegames.com |
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| Actually, Torque is excellant. It was used to power Tribes 2 so it is totally commercial quality code inside. It has alot of features going for it... Great BSP support multitexture terrian engine built in level editors DX and OpenGL Renders Plus, if you really want some snazzy new feature like pixel shaders, you can code it yourself. I used Torque for awhile but in the end I wanted a more general purpose 3D engine. |
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| I have tried Torque and love it, but Im new to game development (Im a Software Developer in the Business world). I tried DBPro and was extremly impressed with how little code I could write and produce prmitives etc.. However the syntax was awful and somewhat incomplete. I also observed that the performance was awful!!. Performance and Stability are key. When I came across BlitZ3d I was amazed at the language, the Object (Entity based) design and performance was a great deal better then DBPro I choose Blitz3d for it rich set of features which will reduce the amount of leg work (plumming code) I have to write to produce my first game. Additionaly the performance is better. And last but not least!!!! The community of people using blitz/blitz3d is at least 3 times the size of all other high level game development packages I've seen including DBPro,3dGame creator. Thats worth the 100.00 bucks alone. |
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| Yes that's what I forgot to mention. One of Blitz's strongest attributes is the community. |
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| Yes that's what I forgot to mention. One of Blitz's strongest attributes is the community. |
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| Rogue Vector Wrote: Quote: " and the Torque engine - which has a new demo out by the way, " Really??? I clicked on the link and went to their site to download the demo you mentioned...But the link doesn't work!!! Is there any other site I can goto to download that demo you mentioned above? |
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| This is the full link to the demo download page: http://www.garagegames.com/pg/demo.php?id=1 OR Click-on the FREE TORQUE DEMO Image on the main page, i.e. http://www.garagegames.com/ |
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| the link doesn't work.. maybe its because I use Mozilla 1.4? |
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| I tried Gamestudio, and A6, but they were a pain in the ass to understand the crappy language. Then I tried Blitz, and found it to be the ultimate game editor for me (I tried 3drad before, but it has NO useful functions, and almost no things can be done realtime). |
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| ALONE THE BEST THING :-) ============================ 3D RAD www.3drad.com/ 3D GAME STUDIO www.conitec.net/a4info.htm DARKBASIC and DARKBASIC PRO http://darkbasic.thegamecreators.com/ http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/ GAME MAKER www.cs.uu.nl/people/markov/gmaker/ 3D GAMEMAKER http://t3dgm.thegamecreators.com/ BLITZ3D www.blitzbasic.com 3D GAMES CREATOR www.games-creator.com/ JAMAGIC www.clickteam.com/English/jamagic.php TORQU GAME ENGINE www.garagegames.com/pg/product/view.php?id=1 JET3D www.jet3d.com/ ============================================= WHICH WILL BE THE BEST ??? :-o I Bounce For BLITZ3D - THE BEST |
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| Ofcourse, Blitz3D is the BEST!!! |
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| Rogue Vector... Many Thanks man..But the link wasn't working yesterday though..But it seems to be working today & im' downloading the demo as I am typing tis response.. Thank's anyways... |
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| Blitz3d all the way. It is totally sweet like a ninja! Don't believe in ninjas? You will after you go to this site: www.realultimatepower.net Awesome. Anyway, Blitz3d is the best language i have ever used. I have messed around with DBPro and lets just say, well, I FOUND THE SPINNING CUBE DEMO VERY IMPRESSIVE. DBPro is perfect for you......if all you want to do is create spinning cubes. lol. Blitz3d ROCKS!!!!! |
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| @matt, rofl, funky music! Matt you have gone mad me thinks :D |
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| @ Mat2222 I've found that DBPro can create other things besides a spinning cube... Give the language a little bit more credit than that...!!! It can do Sphere's too!!!! lol.... |
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| No...! Actually though.... Darkbasic pro does have sloppy syntax & a horrible structure! However though as once stated on the darkbasic pro forums when I was asking questions regarding fog for terrain...which they have none at the moment!! I was told that DBPro is still a continously developing language.. Basically putting it into simple terms here... DarkBasic Pro isn't done yet!!! So basically speaking here...When you get DBPro, Actually what your getting is DarkBasic " The first Product " with a few enhancments thrown on top and they call it DarkBasic Pro... *sign* |
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| >Basically putting it into simple terms here... DarkBasic >Pro isn't done yet!!! So basically speaking here...When >you get DBPro, Actually what your getting is DarkBasic " >The first Product " with a few enhancments thrown on top >and they call it DarkBasic Pro... *sign* So you are saying that DBP isn't even in BETA stage yet *horror*! Andy |
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| So you are saying that DBP isn't even in BETA stage yet *horror*! Just take a look at the bug reports section in the DBPro forum -.- |
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| As much as you might slang it off, it does have some advantages. Such as render to texture, which you cannot really do cube maps without. Remember the Castle Demo with real time reflections? - Which ran at about 20-30FPS here. Using render to texture in DBP you can get the same effect working at 120FPS on the same PC, and you don't have to write a whole load of code to update the images each loop. |
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| The trick to increasing speed for cubemaps is to render only one face per update, or only when you need to. Mark has said that he could have implemented render to texture, but so many cards have problems with it, that in the interest of stability and compatibility, he decided to leave it out. So on one hand, you have a demo running at 20-30 fps, and another demo running at 120 fps. But on another machine, you have a demo running at 20-30 fps, and another demo that doesn't work at all. |
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| Probably 3D game studio... Unless you want lots of control over what the 'things' in your game do, in which case I'd recommed Blitz. |
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| I would use Reality Factory over A6 any day: http://www.realityfactory.ca Better product (IMHO) and much easier to use... But, if you need the more control, B3D is the way to go. |
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| Unless you want lots of control over what the 'things' in your game do, in which case I'd recommed Blitz. Would have been fun if you had recommended DBPro Mark! lol |
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| @ Doggie You mean when is he going to break 50% of the language,introduce a lot of bugs and start charging to fix them? I hope NEVER. Besides I'd hate to see this forum become a vipers nest like the competitors forums. Well doggie... For one thing, I think we are all mature adults here and I don't think this forum would become a vipers nest as you so put it!! And also to note as far as breaking the 50% of the language and introducing a lot of bugs and start charging to fix them ??? Mark Sibly hasn't charged nobody for updates & bug fixs for Blitz3D or Blitz Plus as far as I can remember!!! And how can you expect Blitz3D to evolve into something bigger and better if he doesn't improve upon it??? That's how he can be competitive towards the other development packages on the market today.. If he never improves upon Blitz3D or develope any other Blitz related products... How do you expect Blitz Research, Ltd. to continue to be in business like the others then ?!? If he stops where hes at and doesnt do no more else with Blitz3D, and doesnt develope nothing else...Im' afraid he and his company wont be in business very long then!!! because someone else or another company will gladly take his place and offer some other related type of product to the Blitz community and thus take his customer base too! But!! I have faith in Mark's abilities, and I also know that he's hard at work developing more updates to make Blitz3D and other Blitz related products more advanced and more exciting too! And another note too... Bugs come with any type of development!! It comes with the field... thats why he has Beta-testers to help stamp out the bugs and make Blitz3D and the others products what they are today!!! This isn't meant to make you angry or anyting like that... im' just putting in my two cents worth on this. ok! I respect your opinion man!!! Lets all work together to make Blitz3D more exciting & interesting as well! |
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| ...hasn't charged nobody... ...doesnt do no more... ...doesnt develope nothing else... Getting a bit heavy on the double negatives. Ain't nobody gonna learn me nothin'. Sorry, I was always one to pick out grammer... :( |
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| ...hasn't charged nobody... ...doesnt do no more... ...doesnt develope nothing else... Getting a bit heavy on the double negatives. Ain't nobody gonna learn me nothin'. Sorry, I was always one to pick out grammer... :( Grammer wasn't one of my strong points WolRon...!!! Sorry!!! But then again, " Wolron " ??? Nice grammer yourself too!!! |
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| I pick at grammar and spelling too, but double negatives don't bother me none. Actually I quite like 'em. |
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| Blitz Basic is better obviosally. ;) |
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| Probably 3D game studio... You're too biased. 3D Game Studio (last I tried) was more like "SEUCK for First Person Shooters".Unless you want lots of control over what the 'things' in your game do, in which case I'd recommed Blitz. Blitz and Blitz3D offers three main advantages over other products that I've tried. 1) It's very stable. If your game is buggy chances are it's your code that's screwed. It'll be something you can fix yourself without having to wait for the next patch. 2) It's compatible across practicly all hardware. (My Tablet PC excluded) I have never experienced Blitz3D programs that don't just run when you start them. 3) It's a real programmming language, with no strings attached. It's cheap and regularilly updated for no additional cost. |
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| I'll reiterate the stability issue. Both 3D Game Studio and Dark Basic were sufficiently fragile that I would dismiss them just on that score. Code readability: Blitz3D programs are far easier to read than DarkBasic and its demo projects are impressive and easy to follow. DarkBasic boasts of what you can do in 20 lines of code or whatever, but (a) try reading that code, and (b) DarkBasic sets up hidden defaults which essentially have to be turned off to write any real program, and so the reduced line count is an illusion. 3DGS is easy to use -- it's basically a drag and drop FPS construction kit. Too bad if you *don't* want to create an FPS, and if you do, why not just buy Unreal? It's more stable and comes with better tools and a better engine and is cheaper. If you produce a really awesome mod you may well end up getting a commercial publisher or being hired by a development studio. |
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| I use 3dGS, it's not nearly as terrible as has been suggested here. On the Conitec home page they proudly link to an image of their ISO 9001:2000 certificate. On their product description and faq pages they list older games that have been published using their product. 3dGS is certainly capable of producing comercial quality software. So is Blitz3d. There are differences in capability and ease of use. Preference between the two are best determined by individual work habbits versus product strength and weakness. I think Mark Sibly put it best by saying that Blitz allows more control over what happens and 3dGS gives you less control. There is a nicely optimized game engine that comes with 3dGS so there is no making the engine yourself. This means quicker turn around time, less work on the programming aspect of the project and less control over the details of the end product. Blitz3d gives more detail but is also more work to get a similar product completed. |
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| I also agree with that to BHoltzman... I have 3DGS also and 3DGS is also very good too.. But they also have the ability to use there SDK for developing DLL plug-ins to the engine to allow you to have more control and such... But Blitz3D does too! I think they both are fine product in my opinion here! |
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| On the Conitec home page they proudly link to an image of their ISO 9001:2000 certificate. And ISO 9001 certification isn't a measure of quality value, it a measure of quallity consistency.Regardless, which product you use depends on which needs you have. Blitz3D has suited my needs fine for the last couple of years, to such a degree that I haven't felt the need to even look at other markets. |
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| I`ve used Blitzbasic since the Amiga days and I`ve still to find another programming language that is both stable and easy to understand. It is also worth mentioning Mark Sibly's genius at being able to communicate in a way that is upbeat, clear and understanding to everyone who wishes to write games regardless of their programming background which, alone, makes Blitzbasic refreshingly unique. |
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| ;- |
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| It is also worth mentioning Mark Sibly's genius at being able to communicate in a way that is upbeat, clear and understanding to everyone who wishes to write games regardless of their programming background which, alone, makes Blitzbasic refreshingly unique. Okee Dokee! |
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| just wana add my 2p worth.... If you wana know what is best for making games, what is best to use and whats the easiest to read and write.. Why not just have a look at the quality of the games made in each of these languages. Try the Gallery. or even the showcase on www.blitzcoder.com each of which will show amazing demos of what can be done. then have a look at the DB pro gallery and the others and compare what you find. I think what your going to see is that even though DB has better DX Support the BB3D games look feel and play better. |
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| here is my 2 cents too. c++ is the best game for speed, optimization, graphics, and everything else integrating with the most current version of directx. However... it would take you a team of programmers a year or so full time, to get a game engine built... and by then, all the features you thought were leading edge are now pase and average. DarkBasic. I cant stress this enough.... Marketing will do wonders for you. Especially when you design a flashy editor that looks more like a game, and a great website that has lots of neat colors and features, and appears like it has lots of positive people backing it up. (dig deeper... things change). The version of darkbasic i had tested, had great highlevel language usage. meaning, the language set is simple. because of that, it gets sticky. if you wnt to do low level stuff you still have to use high level language set. Thats why everone complains about its syntax. Torque game engine: we bought this, and spent some time digging through it. We are probbably never going to use this on any significant project due to the fact that it can be modded to the hilt by end users. Its great creating a game, but if you create a game and have the end user change it, you really arent selling your game, your reselling a game engine. Its a great product, has some flaws with networking, but we like it overall. And FInally Blitz basic. Mark... i just want to take a moment to thank you for actually letting is know who you are. When people program in a language and get into it, usually they dont have a chance to know who is developing it, and they usually dont know if the person who supports the language cares. Mark actually reads this drivvel, and responds. Which is much more than i can say for other rad languages. As for functionality. Id take blitz any day over darkbasic. Blitz seems to have a better mix of high/low level access to things. As well we have a superior community. Lots of people post code and chat in the forums. Thats the best part of this language is that people are willing to help when you have a problem. Its like free community support. I do have some issues with collisions but i can always find workarounds, and i knw that Mark responds well to constructive critisizm of the language set, and has an open mind (thats not to say that every little idea or crazy notion gets accepted and incorporated into the language base). Id have paid twice what i paid for blitz. And if/when mark comes out with BlitzMax 3d. Ill buy that... I'd pre order it. sight unseen. Just to support a language i know will be the thing lucidforge will use to compete with the industry giants. There's my two cents...maybe more actually...lol If there is any question in your mind, spend a month coding in blitz3d and darkbasic. if your any kind of programmer, you will appreciate blitz. Good day |
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| Thats why everone complains about its syntax. No it's because it's gibberish. |
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| I use the static Meshes from my DB CD. They have some good chairs and stuff there :) . But I use the Blitz Compiler for Win32 Binaries. Since Years. |
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| Thats why everone complains about its syntax. such as ... Set VertexData Position Get VertexData Vertex Count(),Object Position X(obj),Object Position Y(obj)+Camera Position Y(cam),Object Position Z(obj) ^ this is a valid statement, not exactly fun to read, compared with the Blitz equivilent. |
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| It's syntax sucks when you start getting into complex projects. For example being able to mange large collections of objects of different kinds with the same commands. With Blitz, you have the same commands for a great number of different entities, cutting down on programming time and increasing the likelihood of organised code. Blitz is: quicker to code long term likely to have less bugs easier to port and mantain |
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| Rob Said: With Blitz, you have the same commands for a great number of different entities, cutting down on programming time and increasing the likelihood of organised code. Agree! Mark's use of simple object structures has given the Blitz language some key advantages over traditional BASIC. I am hopeing he extends this concept in later products. (BLITZMAX?) Personally my ideal programming language supports a mix of OO (object oriented) and procedural techniques. Blitz somewhat supports this mix now and I suspect even more so in the future. Another interesting language is the "Java Script" style programming implemented in clickteam's Jamagic. I really like the ideas behind this product but at the moment it is limited by its implementation. |
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| I used during one year and half darkbasic . I don't buy 3DGC pro because of : - stability - management of collisions : it's a pity with 3DGC - management of camera (pick) : it's impossible to do with 3DGC. - the syntax : more than 1000 functions with 3DGC vs 500 functions in B3D - missinf function : with 3DGC you don't have functions to acces to the basic entities into a 3D object. - poor performances ( collision, shadow ) I do programs with the evalutation version of B3D that I never expect to do one day with 3DGC ( the codes archives of this site it's marvellous when you compare with 3DGC). I do more in 3 weeks with B3D evlauation version than in one year with 3DGC ... Philippe C |
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| Philippe C, by 3DGC do you mean 3DGS? |
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| 3DGC pro = 3D Game Creator pro or darkbasic pro Sorry for the misunderstanding. |
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| blitz3d is king - nuff said |
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| I don't have tryed Blitz3D yet, I however I have BlitzPlus which soo much rocks my world, if blitz3D is anything like BlitzPlus it sure hell will rule :) Community is one of the strong points, I totally agree I caught someone from the community to help me with my project and he sure rules :D |
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