Solid modeling? Why?
Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Programming/Solid modeling? Why?
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| Ok...this may sound like a stupid question. But why use solid modeling to create maps for games (Maplet, CShop, Counter-Strike etc.). Why not just build a poly model for the map in any 3d package and use that? What are the pros and cons of each method? Ragnar |
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| Well, solid modelling ensures that your model is geometrically correct and has no back facing polys. I think that's the case anyway. |
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| That is pretty much the reason, but "geometrically correct" is a pretty complicated idea. "Correct" means stuff like no overlapping polygons, no holes in the hull of the level, etc. This is absolutely vital for certain rendering techniques/technologies (eg. a lot of occlusion culling techniques like BSP/portals) but pretty much irrelevant in other situations. I generally just create my levels just like any other 3D model, using a general 3D app instead of some special purpose level editing tool. I tend to create "geometrically correct" models as a matter of course anyway, plus my games generally don't involve stuff like BSP culling where "geometrically correct" is vital. Moreover, though there are certain disadvantages regarding specific stuff like level texturing, doing levels this way gives me an enormous advantage regarding smooth, organic looking levels (whereas CSG level editing tools generally only work well for sharp, angular indoor levels, and progress toward the sorts of organic scenes long possible in general 3D apps are a big deal for level editing tools.) |
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| I simply find it it lots easier than using a normal 3D modeller. My biggest problem is modelling houses for outdoor levels that you can enter and look around the inside. They have to have an inside and an outside so you can't really use a CSG map editor like Maplet. |
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| CSG is fine for that. CSG tends to be best for creating insides of buildings as a matter of fact. You will just need to model both the exterior and interior surface; blocks do not automatically have both. |
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| I think she meant outside as in outdoors ;) |
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| It's a lot faster than using 3ds max. |
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| isn't csg old fashioned now though. ps2 games are built in max and maya. TR AOD was built in maya. UT2003 uses csg to block out levels, with static meshes on top for detail. the advantage being that you can instance the Static meshes, thus creating huge polycounts/detail levels. |
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| A lot of engines also support instances directly from Max. CSG modellers were good for the simple blocky levels of yester-year, but modern games really demand the power and flexibility of a 3d modeller like Max or Maya. This also means a shift in the skillset required of level designers - these days they have to be as much artist or even architect as level designer (of course the good ones always were). Just look at the levels in a game like Jet Set Radio Future - you don't want to be building that world in a CSG editor! -Pudding |
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| solid modelling has its roots in bsp and efficiency. By using solid modelling as you put it, the uv map and lightmap uv map problem was solved in a single stroke. It also meant that you could quickly "fill" a level without leaks to calculate visibility (PVS) information. |
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| Would instancing static meshes in Blitz make a speed difference? |
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| No, it would make a memory difference. Unless you made them single surface. |
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| I already merge all like surfaces in a portal area into a single surface. |
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| Max is also capable of CSG, so you get the best of both worlds. :O) |
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| And Mr Snidesmin is capable of dredging up posts which are a year old. :-) |
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| yup - sorry about that! :O) |
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| Max is also capable of CSG That's sort of like saying I'm capable of brain surgery. I could do it but I'd make a real mess of things. :) |
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| Why do you say that? What's wrong with the boolean compound object? Is it fudgey in some way? I mean okay, I wouldn't use it to make an entire level mesh without using anything else, but I certainly think that it's great for producing rough meshes quickly before converting into an editable mesh to work on the detail. . . |
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| It tends to generate really messy cuts and often ends up screwing the mesh up. At least in my experience... |
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| I admit I have noticed that occasionally. But if you turn on the grid snap and are careful to align vertices when possible, you should have no such problems. Remember that most CSG editors rely on having some kind of grid set up anyway. . . |
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