1.85 release :( French community conclusion ...
Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Programming/1.85 release :( French community conclusion ...
| ||
| We are not convinced with regard to the last version of blitz, the cubic map consumes many fps, and the pseudo bump is unusable and gives dirty rendering ! Especially that one awaited this release very a long time! The French community of blitz finds that mark sibly insane of the users... :( And we let us have enough, to have not documented functions !!!!! :((( http://perso.wanadoo.fr/blitz3dfr/ |
| ||
| The french community is represented by you? Sorry, I cannot take this seriously |
| ||
| yep I agree with you filax we waited 6 month to have a fake dot3 bump and cubic mapping wich eat fps and a few function that don't nedd so much time to write. Probably mark is working hard on blitzmax but We still use Blitz3D Blitz is really great but there is no improvements. nothing. All improvements are made by the community and the ability of userlibs (and free developpement by users). yes we can make good thinks with blitz and its features but there so many things to improve it and our games ... In france, blitz wasn't very famous and still unknown but now a few magazine and newspapers talk about it now and they always reference to our blitz community If they come on the blitz3Dfr web site, the'll read that we needs features, are waiting for and nothing comes. and people are disappointed ... they probably won't choose to buy blitz I think lot of people are asking for blitz improvement and bugs correction. Not only the french community. Pleaz mark You must do something and not let people leave blitz. |
| ||
| me too, I agree with Filax and chGRos... The other 3D basic langage implement DirectX 9.0 or DirectX 8.0 ... 3D GameCreator Pro is just come out with : - Bump mapping - pixel and vector shaders - Real cube mapping and environnemt mapping I like very much BlitzBaisc, I spend a lot of time on it, and all my project a free for evreybody ... But now the performance and DirectX supportare come slowly Please Mark improve performance, or tell us Where is it the BlitzMax developpement . . . |
| ||
| You should be happy there ARE free updates. |
| ||
| Yes it's free, like the other ... But a lot of user, say Blitz are more power than the other language but, it just support DirectX 7.0 . . . |
| ||
| Will a DirectX 9 version of Blitz give you more power? Have you used Blitz3d to the full? I doubt it. I sure haven't. |
| ||
| Personal comment deleted. Please people, this is a fair argument and does not warrant use of personal attacks. |
| ||
| Wiebo you show really impoliteness! There is an active French community! And this one has the right to be expressed. Thus guard your remarks for you... |
| ||
| Wiebo are look the screen of the french community . . .I think we used a lot of fetaure in blitz to have a very good rendering . . . |
| ||
| I never had the intention to use dot3 or cube mappings but I appreciate a lot the addition of texturename and the getbrush stuff, it is a nice addition, entityclass is a very usefull addition also! If there is really a fps hit or something not working like it should, Mark Sibly will address it, he did it previously. I like a lot his way of doing, and I understand it. This was the opinion of the (perhaps?) only belgian user and thus of the belgian community! |
| ||
| Wiebo ! when I see the screenshot your games, it is true that you don't need directX 9 ... Sorry, afflicted to have doubted you! |
| ||
| i agree with you guys filax and Chgros but as we all probably know blitzmax is marks little baby, anything we now get for blitz3d is a bonus. Wiebo some people need more than what blitz gives them, these guys are not knocking blitz, they love it but want and need more. It's still at directx 7.0 without alot of features which lots of users wish for. When blitzmax is out im guessing we won't have these troubles but that seems along way away. ps i love blitz3d and think mark has done a great job, i wish for more things from blitz but still haven't used it close to it's potential. |
| ||
| I agree with the French community and I them support. here 6 months that have await a good update of blitz3D and 1 years for MAPLET. I have a word to say: I am disappointed. Personally I am not interested by blitzmax or blitzplus, and if one day it is necessary to pay to have updates of quality, I will do it. but not for that! |
| ||
| My feeling is that - if you don't like the 1.85 update - you should be entitled to a full money-back guarantee. How much did you pay for the 1.85 update again? Oh yeah, nothing. I don't plan on using either of the new eye-candy features in any of my projects. No big deal, Blitz was a great language before the updates, and the collision bugfix has fixed what was broken in 1.83 so it's all good. I'm afraid I don't know what 3d GameCreator Pro is. I'm not sure if you mean 3d Gamestudio, DarkBasic Pro or something else I'm not familiar with. But if it was truly a better product than Blitz, you would be using it instead. So evidently it has it's problems too. I do think this is probably a stop-gap update with enough eye candy and things to play with to keep people busy until Blitz Max comes out. But that's cool, because I think Blitz3d is coming to the end of it's development cycle now anyway. I think the kind of additions you'd like to see added to Blitz3d would cripple it in it's current state, and I think we need BlitzMax for all of that. So the more time Mark has free to spend on BlitzMax, the better, as far as I'm concerned. |
| ||
| filax vs wiebo - enough! there is obvious two sides to the blitz community, one side interested in making fun games that work on lots of machines, the other side interested in making cutting edge / stunning looking demos that are nice to look at it is stupid for either side to attack the other and does no good for the community |
| ||
| skidracer i agree with you !!!! The problems is not to pay the updates, if it's necessary i would do it. It is not a money problem ... It is simply that I find that the updates are increasingly rare! and really do not bring of large change. |
| ||
| I have a word to say: I am disappointed. That's three words. :)I agree about cubemapping - its as slow as the fake stuff I did in Blitz3D nearly a month ago and I was expecting it to be far faster. And it still doesn't work in 16-bit mode either which means I would be reluctant to use it in any of my games as it stands anyway. Take cubemapping out, and the undocumented dot3 stuff (neither of which, im my personal opinion, are much use), and you do have to wonder why it took eight months... The less said about the documentation (SetCubeMode??!) the better. Anyhow, unlike most other people I wasn't 'eagerly awaiting' the update, so I can't say I'm disappointed. How can I be when it's still doing everything I want it to? |
| ||
| filax, I understand. In regards to cubic mapping fps, this feature is of course not free. It takes time for every pixel to be calculated and it takes time for programmers to learn how best to use it to their advantage. I think it is premature to suggest it's implementation is in any way faulty. As for bump mapping, yes this is very frustrating. The only reason these low level commands have been included is for experimenting and from the number of Topics on this site there are people taking opportunity to learn what they can from playing with it. Given what users are doing in areas of physics and b3d format support I don't think it is end of world for Blitz3D just yet. |
| ||
| yep sure we have not said that we don't love blitz3D I think it is great and powerfull and we like working and spending hours with it .... but i think 6 month for that kind of update sure the few function added are usefull but there are so few additions ... yes upgrades are free ... but it's not because this is free that it is bad. i would pay to have a great update and have bump map, stencil buffer access , shaders and weight bones. Webio sure, no need of dx9 for 2D games ... but think people can use BLITZ3D to make 3D And pleaz don't have bad opinions about french because without knowing them and thier works. And mark don't give us any news of his developpement status. I think we can just know a little about it. Probably he has given up blitz3D, working on blitzmax and those update are there just so we stay here waiting that blitzmax is finished. pleaz mark say somethings french community is not against you but we want to know what append and what's appening thank |
| ||
| I'm sorry but the comment about Mark being thought 'insane of the users' just struck me as odd, and that's why I made my comment. The 'request for more power' is something we discussed a lot on the forums as well... But: Who said I was having bad opinions about the french blitz users? Who said I was knocking Filax's work, like he has mine? No one... You guys should work on your spelling AND reading skills, 'cos I have never been this mis-understood over only 3 sentences before. Geez |
| ||
| i don't know where you come from wiebo perhap's your german or else but not from uk or us but it's not easy sometimes to write thing not in your maternal langage ... imagine it is easier to speak french for us and english . sometimes we don't have the right word we want to use and translation is sometimes hard |
| ||
| World on fire ! Let us make peace! the community blitz is already not very significant (especially in France) thus we do not beat between us! and you WIEBO accepts the fact that we have an opinion!!! and do not any more remarks unpleasant a the opposition to our judgement please ! your remark of a few moments ago was very wounding ... For example : look at this site This is the feature of DarkBasic pro ... http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?f=features I hope just that next the update of blitz or blitzmax will offer as much possibility. |
| ||
| I'm dutch, and I manage. So can you or everybody else. I understand the problems the french have with the english language. But this is getting off topic. Filax: If I hurt your feelings then I apologise. You may not like my graphics or games but that game contains more gameplay than all your tech demos together, and that's MY opinion. You'd better accept that as well. DarkBasic? heh, bad example... :) |
| ||
| "contains more gameplay than all your tech demos together" ???? Sure !!! lol Since they are demonstrations:)let us compare what is comparable ... |
| ||
| ok, then WHY did you post that 2 year old screenshot in the first place? |
| ||
| You are so boring .... |
| ||
| got ya |
| ||
| I've collected all the DBpro features that Blitz doesn't have: Includes a 135 page Spiral-bound Manual (not sure if thats a big deal or not) Expandable, write your own DLLs with the free SDK (not even sure what that means, DevC++ is free for Blitz users) Potential Visibility Set (use Quill3D or code your own) Bump Mapping (not sure if this one counts - I can't see bumps on my graphics cards) Pixel and Vertex Shaders (these would be nice) Rainbow Rendering (WTF?) Code your own Shaders (isn't this the same feature as Pixel and Vertex Shaders?) I commend anyone who can speak another language no matter that a few mistakes creep in. I understand the frustration of not having all the latest features, but isn't that precisely why Mark is working on BlitzMax? |
| ||
| This is the feature of DarkBasic pro .. No no no, those are the features they CLAIM are in DB Pro. Read the forums for an up to date list of which ones work, which ones don't, which ones broke things which used to work and which ones crash violently. Oh, and if you think cubemaps are slow with Blitz, just try them with DB Pro. When I inquired about them, I was told they were pretty slow and barely useable on a Radeon 9700 Pro. Someone else said it took around 15 seconds to refresh a cubemap. |
| ||
| darkbasic pro is not a good exemple this is not another topic to compare blitz with dbpro or 3DGS we choose blitz so blitz is good faster than dbpro we just want more features in a 6 month update. Or the ability to had them ... ( blitz SDK ? ^_^ ) If mark work on blitzmax, ok, but he can just take 1 min to say 'hello everybody i'm working on blitz max. i think it will approximatically be finished in Q4 2004 , Q1 2005 , or 2058' ... i think we are not only people who give money I think mark can have some interest for us ... at least a post every 2 weeks telling the status or problems he has on his developpement ..... |
| ||
| the cubic map consumes many fps, The cube mapping doesn't consume FPS. What uses a lot of FPS is the constant need to RenderWorld() in order to update the cube faces. Blitz3D lacks a key feature which is essential for real-time cubemapping IMO, there is no render-to-texture option, so you have to render to the BackBuffer several times and CopyRect it. What filax has also missed is that most games which have cube mapping, don't constantly update it. They just render once when the world is created and leave it at that. Remove the function which updates the cube maps from the main loop and your game will run much faster. |
| ||
| I love the French way of speaking... "insane of the users" and "afflicted to have doubted you!" That's a kind of poetry, really. Doggie |
| ||
| Thx AtomicX for this information ! |
| ||
| I don't normaly jump in on these flame wars, but I simply have to comment on this statement: Sybixsus: "My feeling is that - if you don't like the 1.85 update - you should be entitled to a full money-back guarantee." Tell me, how is Mars this time of year? Tom |
| ||
| I think mark can have some interest for us ... at least a post every 2 weeks telling the status or problems he has on his developpement Indeed, regular updates on what provision we are to expect for Blitz3D would be extremely welcome. Of course, Blitz+ and BlitzMax seem to be priorities for Mark at the moment. With regards to the upgrade, I appreciate that it is not a large change, and it requires some work to implement in a way acceptable to most, but it IS a free upgrade, that has potential. That's the end of my thoughts on the subject. |
| ||
| AtomicX ! i have try ! but with animated object the cubic map on the static scene objects don't change ! a solution ? THE CODE : Include "Inc_CubeMapping.bb" Graphics3D 640,480,16,2 SetBuffer BackBuffer() ; If user's graphics card does not support cubic mapping then quit example If GfxDriverCaps3D()<110 Then RuntimeError "Sorry, your graphics card does not support cubic environemnt maps." cam=CreateCamera() PositionEntity cam,0,10,-30 light1=CreateLight(2) PositionEntity light1,30,30,-30 LightRange light1,150 LightColor light1,255,255,255 light2=CreateLight(2) PositionEntity light2,-30,30,30 LightRange light2,150 LightColor light2,255,255,255 teapot=LoadMesh("silicon.3Ds") ScaleEntity teapot,0.1,0.1,0.1 PositionEntity teapot,0,9,0 EntityShininess teapot,1 EntityColor teapot,255,255,0 teapot1=CreateSphere(80) ScaleEntity teapot1,5,5,5 PositionEntity teapot1,10,9,0 EntityShininess teapot1,1 EntityColor teapot1,0,255,0 ; ground ground1=CreateCube() PositionEntity ground1,0,0,0 ScaleEntity ground1,40,1,40 ground2=CreateCube() PositionEntity ground2,0,0,40 ScaleEntity ground2,40,40,1 ground3=CreateCube() PositionEntity ground3,0,0,-40 ScaleEntity ground3,40,40,1 Texture=LoadTexture ("01.bmp") EntityTexture Ground1,Texture ; Create texture with color + cubic environment map + store in vram flags size=256 CreateCubeMap(128,teapot,2) CreateCubeMap(128,teapot1,2) CreateCubeMap(128,ground3,2) While Not KeyDown(1) mxs#=mxs#+(MouseXSpeed()/5.0) mys#=mys#-(MouseYSpeed()/5.0) RotateEntity cam,mys#,-mxs#,0 MoveMouse GraphicsWidth()/2,GraphicsHeight ()/2 If KeyDown(200)=True Then MoveEntity cam,0,0,.3 ; move camera forward If KeyDown(208)=True Then MoveEntity cam,0,0,-.3 ; move camera back If KeyDown(205)=True Then MoveEntity cam,.3,0,0 ; move camera left If KeyDown(203)=True Then MoveEntity cam,-.3,0,0 ; move camera right TurnEntity teapot,0.2,0.2,0.2 TurnEntity teapot1,0.2,0.2,0.2 ;UpdateCubemap() RenderWorld Flip Wend THE INCLUDE : ; ********************************************************************* ; * Include : Création de cubic map * ; * * ; * Version : V1.0 * ; ********************************************************************* ; -------------------------- ; Type des CubeMap ; -------------------------- Type TCubeMap Field CubeCamera Field CubeTexture Field CubeEntity End Type ; ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ; Fonction qui permet d'initialiser le cubemaping d'un objet ; ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Function CreateCubeMap(Size,Entity,Index) Cube.TCubeMap=New TCubeMap Cube\CubeCamera=CreateCamera() Cube\CubeTexture=CreateTexture(Size,Size,1+128+256+512) Cube\CubeEntity=Entity TmpTextureSize=TextureWidth(Cube\CubeTexture) ; -------------------------------- ; Affichage de la camera ; -------------------------------- ShowEntity Cube\CubeCamera ; --------------------------------- ; On cache l'entite attache ; --------------------------------- HideEntity Cube\CubeEntity ; ------------------------------------------------------------- ; On positionne la camera au centre de l'objet ; ------------------------------------------------------------- PositionEntity Cube\CubeCamera,EntityX#(Cube\CubeEntity),EntityY#(Cube\CubeEntity),EntityZ#(Cube\CubeEntity) CameraClsMode Cube\CubeCamera,False,True ; ------------------------------ ; Definition du viewport ; ------------------------------ CameraViewport Cube\CubeCamera,0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize ; ------------------ ; Face gauche ; ------------------ SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,0 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,0,90,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; --------------- ; Face avant ; --------------- SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,1 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,0,0,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; --------------- ; Face droite ; --------------- SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,2 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,0,-90,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; ----------------- ; Face arriere ; ----------------- SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,3 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,0,180,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; ------------------ ; Face dessus ; ------------------ SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,4 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,-90,0,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; -------------------- ; Face dessous ; -------------------- SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,5 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,90,0,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; -------------------------- ; On reaffiche l'entite ; -------------------------- ShowEntity Cube\CubeEntity ; ---------------------------- ; On cache la camera ; ---------------------------- HideEntity Cube\CubeCamera EntityTexture Cube\CubeEntity,Cube\CubeTexture,0,Index End Function ; ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ; Fonction qui permet de rafraichir les cubes mapping ; ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Function UpdateCubemap() For Cube.TCubeMap=Each TCubeMap TmpTextureSize=TextureWidth(Cube\CubeTexture) ; -------------------------------- ; Affichage de la camera ; -------------------------------- ShowEntity Cube\CubeCamera ; --------------------------------- ; On cache l'entite attache ; --------------------------------- HideEntity Cube\CubeEntity ; ------------------------------------------------------------- ; On positionne la camera au centre de l'objet ; ------------------------------------------------------------- PositionEntity Cube\CubeCamera,EntityX#(Cube\CubeEntity),EntityY#(Cube\CubeEntity),EntityZ#(Cube\CubeEntity) CameraClsMode Cube\CubeCamera,False,True ; ------------------------------ ; Definition du viewport ; ------------------------------ CameraViewport Cube\CubeCamera,0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize ; ------------------ ; Face gauche ; ------------------ SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,0 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,0,90,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; --------------- ; Face avant ; --------------- SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,1 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,0,0,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; --------------- ; Face droite ; --------------- SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,2 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,0,-90,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; ----------------- ; Face arriere ; ----------------- SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,3 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,0,180,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; ------------------ ; Face dessus ; ------------------ SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,4 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,-90,0,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; -------------------- ; Face dessous ; -------------------- SetCubeFace Cube\CubeTexture,5 RotateEntity Cube\CubeCamera,90,0,0 RenderWorld CopyRect 0,0,TmpTextureSize,TmpTextureSize,0,0,BackBuffer(),TextureBuffer(Cube\CubeTexture) ; -------------------------- ; On reaffiche l'entite ; -------------------------- ShowEntity Cube\CubeEntity ; ---------------------------- ; On cache la camera ; ---------------------------- HideEntity Cube\CubeCamera Next End Function |
| ||
| The only word that comes to mind is 'Ungratefull'. These updates are free, so what you get is what you get!. I know you said 'I dont mind paying', but the fact is the updates are free. If the updates were pay to play, then I think you would have many more unhappy customers. So just sit back and wait another 6 months, all the time remembering, "if you dont like it you can lump it!". Personally I think its extremely rude to critisize Mark for not including [insert x feature here] just because YOU! want it. I am sure every user of blitz has at least one wish-list feature they would like. You dont see them stomping their way onto the forums and hissing like babies... beh... |
| ||
| Lol no comments ... |
| ||
| :) no comments ... |
| ||
| acoders we are not always critisize blitz or mark (i think it is the first time fo the community to say smthing against blitz or mark) we are gratefull fo his work. just we are completly desappointed with this update. blitz gives free updates like others. and dbpro has free updates, 3DGS, quest3D, Qube , fly3D, truevision or else too ... microsoft gives too free updates ;-) So the fact that is free is not an argument; it is free, it is free. When we bought blitz we knew update will be free on lot of product you buy the product with his updates. I bought unwrap 3D and it has lot of free updates. I'd prefer pay to have great updates than having so little but free. We are disappointed becoz the new features include don't need 6 month work so we jst want some news about what's going to happend fo blitz and for blitz max if we have to wait for it to have the features we want. so just want mark reaction. |
| ||
| french community against the world now everybody gonna think we are ungratefull or bad guys that prefer critisize rather than working on his game. i think some people think what we say louder (or write ..) |
| ||
| Wrong you guy's. The issue is not ungreatfullness or that blitz sux or that it lacks features. It's just that filax and his buddy's are uncertain of B3D's future. I 2 would like to know where B3D is heading. Mark -- any comments? Also, wiebo -- lay off man. Filax's demo's look better then anything i would imagine you could code. Just quit it! So what if they don't know english very well. I'm not holding it against you that you can't speak hindi r sumpthin... The keyword is repect. Filax n crew respectfully express them selves no need to get personal.... |
| ||
| The cube mapping doesn't consume FPS. What uses a lot of FPS is the constant need to RenderWorld() in order to update the cube faces. What filax has also missed is that most games which have cube mapping, don't constantly update it. They just render once when the world is created and leave it at that. Remove the function which updates the cube maps from the main loop and your game will run much faster. Yup, updating cubemaps EVERY frame will kill your framerate for sure... do it only once, or update every 10th frame - or better yet, have few pre-rendered cubes saved and load those... like for example for every greatly different location on your game like dim indoors, shiny becah, sea, etc... Also note that you don't have to update EVERY face; for example if your walking on a outdoor terrain, the sky stays basically the same, like the ground below, so you might have to update only the sides... but usually it's best to use only pre-rendered cubes / cubes gerated with code when the game starts. |
| ||
| I represent myself, skn3 or Jonathan. Not an entire country(France) or group of people(acoders). The fact still remains that your being rude and trying to demand that your needs be met over any other priorities. Updates are free, yes. The point is, because of this you get what you get. So, updates being free is the ONLY point. If you want news, check the worklogs, its all there so stop being impatient, and rude! |
| ||
| "stop being impatient" i check worklogs very often to see what people do with blitz but where is mark's one ? We can wait but ... we have no news from mark. we have no support from mark. The only support is made by blitz gurus like sswift or halo for expl and the rest of the community. I know mark as a lot of work and better things to do that spending hours on the forum but just a post everywEek don't requier so much time. I think he can give more news about his work. We dont ask that our needs be met over other priorities. We 're talking about the new features included in 1.85 . and the fact that its is not dot3 bump map and cubemapping is slow. thks mustand for the advise about cubemap |
| ||
| Have you considered that maybe months were added to the release date of the update because of the dealings with Blitz's previous publisher? Similarly, maybe Mark wasn't as comfortable talking about developments with BlitzMax. You might see more updates with other languages because of the disproportionate number of bugs that need fixing. Blitz3D doesn't have many bugs, so, fewer releases. And when they come they offer new features. Does DB (not DBpro) have new releases every few months? |
| ||
| i don't like dbpro even dbpro had patch 5 in less a year but you're right dbpro is too buggy and that's why it has more updates. anyway i choose b3D becoz i think it's the best. i don't thinks blitz3D is bad no, blitz3D is good But i ask for more new and cutting edge and eyes catching features. As you can see in advanced section (but i'm not a advanced user) i tried to make something good with the bump feature. so i'll use what i 'll get. but this post was to wake up mark . (i'm probably a little hard with him ) to give us at least some news. |
| ||
| Hmm... if we were inundated with up-to-=the-second, fantastic new eye-catching technical dot-bump-thingywotsit mapping, and reflective-light-shadow-lens-occlusion-ray-imaging, who would ever have the time to utilise it all and use it well? At least with the time between updates, advanced users can get to make the most out of what they have! |
| ||
| People don't fully use the power they have NOW. How will moving to DirectX 9 and pixel shaders help those people exactly? And as for DarkBasic ... yeah, the feature list is longer. The question is, how much of it actually works? |
| ||
| cubemapping is slow No it isn't. Turn off the dynamic update and cube mapping is perfectly fast. Does DB (not DBpro) have new releases every few months? DB hasn't been updated for a year and a half now. DBP does have new releases every few months, and generally new features are added - like DX9 & HLSL FX shader support in Patch5. The downside is that the bugfix list is 50 items long and has things like "shadows not working fixed, commented out the code accidentally" in. |
| ||
| I'd like to complain about Mark being only one guy. Why can't he magically turn himself into 2 guys? He'd get twice as much work done then... (BlitzMax is intended to provide access to 'high-end' stuff. If you buy a product, buy it for what it offers now, not what you hope it's going to have 6 months down the road. Happy to pay for an update offering all of this fancy stuff? Mark's working on it; it's called BlitzMax!) |
| ||
| AtomicX ! i have try ! but with animated object the cubic map on the static scene objects don't change Only update once every X frames. You missed the point of what I said though. Cube maps are generally static, normally in post games, if you approach a cube mapped object, or the scenery changes, it isn't updated. Look at the reflective water in some games, and you'll notice that it doesn't always update to reflect its environment, because that would be processor intensive. Another option would be to hide as much as possible when rendering the sides for the cube map. |
| ||
| Thx :) |
| ||
| I always knew the french where strange people... |
| ||
| "" I always knew the french where strange people... "" sure .... |
| ||
| you have luck - cubemapping don't work on my old ATI-graphic-card... enjoy cubemapping... |
| ||
| I agree that the pace of updates has been disappointing. I'd like to see BlitzMax come out ASAP, but it would also be nice to see Blitz3D improve a bit. I tnink that there's a problem inherent in giving away updates -- you don't have any financial incentive to create them. Blitz should start charging for 0.1 updates (so Blitz3D 1.9 would be a paid-for upgrade) which will mean that they would make money from them. Just a thought. |
| ||
| i just have to say that while i was a bit disapointed with the update, i used to use db standard and it was never updated at all and all you could do was w8 for pro, when pro came out i d/n the demo and it didnt even start the IDE so i think that people are forgetting how good blitz is... |
| ||
| The French community of blitz finds that mark sibly insane of the users... :( WHAT ?!!?? This is not the truth !!! i'm french and i totaly disagree with Filax !!! i don't consider myself into this strange 'French community' ! @Filax : merci de ne plus jamais utiliser ce terme de 'French community'. Je ne vois pas de quel droit tu t'exprimes de la part de tous. Je ne suis pas d'accord et suis offensé par tes propos ! Vous avez pris la grosse tête ou quoi ? |
| ||
| I don't normaly jump in on these flame wars, but I simply have to comment on this statement: Sybixsus: "My feeling is that - if you don't like the 1.85 update - you should be entitled to a full money-back guarantee." Tell me, how is Mars this time of year? It's fine thanks. How is the world of banging off a response before you even bother to read the next sentence? In case anyone else is suffering from selective quote disorder like Tom, here's what I ACTUALLY SAID : My feeling is that - if you don't like the 1.85 update - you should be entitled to a full money-back guarantee. How much did you pay for the 1.85 update again? Oh yeah, nothing. |
| ||
| And my french isn't great, but it's good enough to have a chuckle at Hub's reply. ;) |
| ||
| @hub : filax ne s'exprime pas de la part de tous les francais... mais si tu connais une autre communauté blitz francaise ... ben fais le savoir ... et il a parlé au non de blitz3DFR qui est l'endroit ou tu trouves le plus de personnes francaises faisant du blitz (le petit drapeau bleu blanc rouge du forum). je ne pense pas que filax aie la grosse tete personne n'as ici revendiqué le fait d'etre une bete en blitz ou d'etre meilleur que qui que ce soit maintenant si t pas daccord avec ce qui ce dit ici tu t'exprimes ou tu nous laisse parler stp. On donne notre avis. Tu peux ne pas etre daccord. Mais pas nous empecher de nous exprimer. sur ce ... la communauté blitz3DFR (et pas francaise sinon monsieur HUB va crier) vous salue |
| ||
| Merci chgros ;) car la je commence a fatiguer :) |
| ||
| @Chgros : HUB va crier Avant tout chose, il n'y a aucune agressivité dans mes propos, aucun cri. maintenant si t pas daccord avec ce qui ce dit ici tu t'exprimes ou tu nous laisse parler stp. Je ne comprends pas trop cette phrase. Je n'ai jamais empêché qui que ce soit de s'exprimer. Soit je m'exprime, soit je vous laisse parler ? Vous pouvez parler ET moi aussi m'exprimer, non ? personne n'as ici revendiqué le fait d'etre une bete en blitz ou d'etre meilleur que qui que ce soit rien a voir avec ce que j'ai écrit ? Je n'ai pas abordé ce thème ! Mais pas nous empecher de nous exprimer. Ma remarque ne parle pas du tout de çà. Je ne vous ai pas empêché de vous exprimer. J'ai juste écrit que j'étais surpris d'être associé à ce post à mon insu. Car je fais bien parti de la communauté française des utilisateurs de Blitz. la communauté blitz3DFR je préfère. D'ailleurs, je pense que blitzfr, devrait plutôt se considérer comme une communauté francophone. Je n'ai rien contre le site blitzfr. Je trouve ce post trop agressif. Pour terminer, moi je te respecte Chgros, comme je respecte mark sibly et le reste de la communauté. Une fois de plus mon post n'avait aucune agressivité. J'ai juste donné mon opinion. |
| ||
| Syb, yeh ok :) Just don't block my ports or anything :) Tom |
| ||
| I think the idea is Mark is laying low for a while to work on a more powerful base to replace Blitz3D (BlitzMAX). This means a short-term lull in order to gain a long-term benefit. I personally would rather see Blitz3D develop more, but I understand that one person can only do so much. |
| ||
| LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL but last bb3d-update (1.83) is not 6 months ago - it was released 4 1/2 months ago... and now you have 2 more features and some more functions - it's ok some people say: need DX9 - but i love Blitz, because it run on DX7... |
| ||
| @Filax: je dois dire que je suis assez d'accord avec hub sur un point: ton thread est franchement mal nommé, tu peux pas prétendre représenter tous les blitzer français. Et surtout, à cause de cette petite bourde tout le monde se focalise là-dessus alors qu'on se fout franchement de savoir si vous êtes français, pekinois, ou des petits hommes verts. Disons que la forme occulte un peu le fond, c'est dommage vu qu'il y aurait effectivement beaucoup à dire sur cette update (et aussi sur le léger autisme de Mark)... |
| ||
| Seriously get a grip! If you want the latest features, grab your C++ compiler and Direct X 9.0 SDK ... then have at it. Blitz3D is here to create reliable games for indie developers. Sure you can create cool tech demos with it but it also has to be able to create some stable low-end games. We're not going to compete with 'AAA' titles on this front in terms of technology so get over it. There are plenty of lower end games making a lot of money out there and at this moment Blitz3D is very capable of making incredibly competent software for this market. You love Blitz because the other guys can't keep up with their bugs do to the fact that they are trying to fullfill some crazy feature requests. Grab your copy of Blitz and push it to it's furtherst boundries in a game related environment and you'll be rewarded! Look at BlitzPlus! Mark took the DX down a notch so it will be compatible with more machines. That is how you sell software to a broad audience. Look at RealONE Arcade or Dexterity. They sell a lot of games and the best sellers have the lowest system specs. If you don't want to make games then do what I said above. Get C++ and the DX 9.0 SDK. You'll be able to create all kinds of crazy effects and if you're not worried about creating a whole game it's not really too tough to do. There are a million books out there that can have you running 3D simulations in MS Visual C++ in no time. It's all just opinion in the end however. I can't tell you what you should be using your copy of Blitz3D for. In my opinion aim for 5 year old systems with a really good game and you'll be rewarded. |
| ||
| I think it`s not the "Mini" - Updates that the People makes angry. It`s more the "No Information" what`s going on. Mark should more responce to this Forum. I have bought Blitz the first time it`s coming out. (That was in the Amiga Times, Oh God i miss them). I have other Game making Languages like: DBPro, A6 Com, 3D Rad... , but i think Blitz is the Best. But without a good Support this Language is dying. Support means: 1: Contact to the Users 2: Delete Errors, reported from the Users 3: Insert new Features, requested from the Users 4: Make a Forum/Worklog ? like Conitecs Forecast, so the users can see what is planned for the Future. PS: I don`t know if Mark is making Blitz as a Full-Time Job or after his Work. But i have PureBasic too, and Fred (The Developer of PB) works full-time and developes PureBasic in his Freetime. The Updates are coming every 2-3 month. |
| ||
| My 2 Cents: If we insult Mr Sibley and complain about every release how do you think it's going to affect his motivation. Most people do things for glory or money, and Marks not getting rich from this. I suggest if we continue to complain and bitch the updates will dry up, this has happened on so many internet based projects I've seen (look to the MAME community), people hassle the authors so much they give up. As far as calling Mark insane, well I think thats very much uncalled for; don't throw a punch first unless you want to get knocked out (so to speak). Finally, the delay in updates is easy to see - Mark has released many updates on BlitzPlus, and probably is working on other projects in the background with regards to BlitzMax. Again; we've got a pretty good deal getting all these updates for free and having payed such a low price for an excellent language. Think this way - if Mark just says "F*CK IT - THE B3D COMMUNITY IS A BUNCH OF SELFISH ASSHOLES" and gives up... we'll only have ourselves to blame. Man -- just suck it up and get on with it ;) -R |
| ||
| This is what you've got to expect when the language is being rewritten from the ground up. Mark isn't going to just cancel his plans for BlitzMax, so I wouldn't expect too many Blitz3D updates too frequently. In the meantime, more cool stuff is coming out right now than any other time in Blitz3D's history. I myself have about three technical areas I want to pursue, but don't have time to do all them right now. As I have said a few times, the limiting factor right now is not the language or the programmers, but the lack of artwork. Go learn how to make textures and post a set for royalty-free use. I made some pretty good ones with no texturing experience at all, so anyone can do it. |
| ||
| I'm from the US, and so I have my own opinions about the French ;-) In reguards to Blitz the blitz french community has provided alot and done alot, so if they're complaining they probably have good reason to do so. At the same time, Mark is pretty busy working on blitz max, and making sure any updates that come are relatively (if completely) bug free. I would personally rather have a bug free program than the latest features. Plus if b3d completely supported direct-x 9 half of us couldn't use some of the features. In fact I just recently downloaded the dx9 sdk because i have a copy of MSVC++ 6, and even some of their own examples don't work for me (actually crashed)... some use reference drivers which are very slow. I almost wonder why the included such samples in the sdk, but I do know it's because I have an older video card (geforce 3 ti 200) So you might as well not worry about the updates. I'll admit I too was worrying a little bit about them, but really I was just concerned that blitzplus was getting updated when blitz3d was not, I wasn't so into the changes I just thought it would be nice to have a b3d update, and guess what, we got one. Not only that but it fixed a problem I had with .b3d models exported from Terabit's decorator (v 1.7)... Just my 2cents |
| ||
| I agree wth James, Mark needs to duplicate himself. I'm actaully suprised to see that Mark would put so many products in front of him like this at one time. I mean I know he needs $$$, but obviously he has some kind of master plan worked out... hopefully :) Stuff we know he is still currently working on: Blitz 3D Blitz Plus Maplet Supposely he is working on getting a foundation for BlitzMax by working on BlitzPlus? Also, he is trying to "upgrade" the langauge to use OOP??? With so many things that Mark is working on and with the inside information that he shares to us about what he is currently doing, I don't blame Mark for being more quite than he has been. All I know is that his products that he makes for us will get better and better over time. Yeah, I mean shucks that we can't have the latest in AAA Graphical visuals now. Darn. At least it is crystal clear why things are. I know I will not have to worry about the future of Blitz3D, I mean Mark made it crystal clear that Blitzmax will not replace it. I know I will not have worry about any of his products from not getting any better. Maplet is questionable, but again Mark only has so much time that he gives himself to work on what he thinks is best. Thanks for your hard work, Mark! I will always value it. If any body thinks I'm a suck up, well then... Thanks! |
| ||
| I'd like to take this opportunity to say: STOP BEING DEFENSIVE EVERYONE! Doubters wait and see, then crawl back and see how good Blitz is! |
| ||
| Sure rob ! :) |
| ||
| Hi, No, there's not much to the update - I have been working on other things which will *eventually* benefit all Blitz products. There has also been a certain amount of 'politicing' going on behind the scenes over the past year which has consumed far more time than I would have liked. Cubemapping should be as fast as regular texture mapping. However, dynamically altering cubemaps will be as slow as dynamically altering regular textures. I recommend making sure the mipmap flag isn't set (as any alteration will cause mipmaps to be rebuilt) and/or only refreshing one face per frame or even every N'th frame. The reason Blitz has never offered a 'render directly to buffer' option is because it is/was broken on many cards/drivers. This situation may have changed by now, but I wouldn't bet on it. This is one of several cases in Blitz3D's design where I have made a deliberate decision to sacrifice (hypothetical) performance for the sake of compatiblity. Such decisions are my call, and I stand by them! Although I understand how others may disagree... Dot3 blending is 'unofficial'. Blitz3D's current design makes it too tricky to implement proper, generalized dot3 bumpmaps (ie: normals in 'surface space') lit by multiple lights, so I was faced with the decision to either remove plain dot3 blending or leave it in for the community to 'unofficially' play with. I left it in. Another option would have been to provide some kind of kludge for half-arsed 'one light/object space' dot3 bumpmaps - but I'd rather spend the time working on the real thing. I am reluctant to charge for Blitz updates, as I would therefore feel obliged to provide them (!) and this would distract me from what I feel is the 'greater good'. I guess the bottom line is that I have my own intuition of where Blitz needs to go, and you guys are just gonna have to trust me! Mark |
| ||
| @hub : Desolé si j'ai pris ca pour une agression. On oublie @Uhfgood from the US : becoz you're from US you have a special bad opinion about french wich prefer TALK to WAR (or i don't know what else reason you have for your special opinion about french) ? @everybody : perhaps this is the lack of information more than mark's work talk about. The update don't do what we waited for and so we 're disappointed ... but i thinks this come from the no-communication between blitzuser and the blitzmaker. |
| ||
| Thanks Mark! I for one am sticking with Blitz as it stands and will welcome with open arms any additions. I don't run into barriers with this language, at least nothing that can't be fixed by 'innovative thinking' or by the communitity's vast resources. Mark knows what he's doing and that's why we're here instead of writing our own 'Blitz'... Now get back to work on those games! |
| ||
| Going on program releases and worklogs, and other general comments by Mark, it's pretty easy to figure out what the future of Blitz most probably is. I suspect three programs, Blitz+, Blitz3D, BlitzMax, all using a common compiler (so only one bunch of source for Mark to work with) and designed in a highly modular fashion. Blitz+ will include standard modules, 2D and GUI, Blitz3D standard modules, 3D and 2D, and BlitzMax the lot. Given his efforts with multiple graphics drivers on Blitz+, I would also suspect the graphics output itself is highly modular, meaning most APIs could be supported, probably with future cross-platform in mind. Maplet is in some respects a test for the new Blitz compiler, which is why you won't see any updates for it for a while. I would suspect Blitz3D development has slowed recently because it's hard to justify putting more effort into an old codebase. I'm not associated with Blitz Research, just stating what I think is the logical direction Mark would take. Pinch of salt where necessary. |
| ||
| Thanks for the remarks, Mark. I think that's all anyone really wants. |
| ||
| Yeah Mark... that's it. It feels good when you say something... and I'm not gay (or anything...) Ok.. bare with my sick sense of humour. Seriously I really think that if you write something once in a while we just know you continue to keep your high level and working like the genious you are. Thanks... - Bouncer (Using blitz since Amiga days) |
| ||
| thanks for clarifying things mark. it means alot to all of us. |
| ||
| Thanks Mark for the update post! Hope you get the legal shakles shaken off in the near future. In the meantime, those of us who really are producing things will push on with all of the great tools available and eagerly implement new features as they come along. Hang tough, finish with the legal garbage, and continue to create wonderful *and embarrasingly cheap* tools and just every now and then just drop us a line here and let us know you're still at it. That's all we could ask for. Thanks! |
| ||
| Thanks Mark. On a different note, I wish BlitzMax would replace both blitzplus and blitz3d ;-) Better to use one product then pay for two seperate ones :-/ |
| ||
| yep thank for the post mark. if you could post more sometimes ... just tell us a little bit about blitzmax grow .... can you give a release date for the new product ? just want to know if this product will be out in 2003, 2004 or 2005 thx |
| ||
| ...There is no stopping the French :) |
| ||
| :) |
| ||
| Except a war :) J/K heh! |
| ||
| (i just take the occasion to tell mark to post more) and i thank him for the news 90 post for that .... what a lost time ... :-) So i go back to work now .... ^_^ |
| ||
| >just tell us a little bit about blitzmax grow .... Read the worklog http://www.blitzbasic.com/logs/userlog.php?user=1 >can you give a release date for the new product ? Read the worklog http://www.blitzbasic.com/logs/userlog.php?user=1 >just want to know if this product will be out in 2003, >2004 or 2005 Read the worklog or expect Blitz MAX in 2006. http://www.blitzbasic.com/logs/userlog.php?user=1 Andy |
| ||
| thank you andy i know where to find worklog but not where to find the answer to my questions ... i 've aleady read about POO and that's a great think. |
| ||
| >but not where to find the answer to my questions ... You asked 3 specific questions, which have all been answered in Marks worklog. I shouldn't have said 2006, as I have no inside knowledge about Blitz MAX: It just seemed like a nice pun after you mentioned 2003, 2004 and 2005. Andy |
| ||
| Damn, its topics like these that make me wish my French class would go by much quicker.....learning a new piece of grammar a week is not fast enough. :P ( Je parle petit français ) Anyway, as for the update, I dont really care what it gives, as long as it gives me something new to play with (the cubic mappin' fer example), I'm happy....... Though I do understand that some people here are unhappy with the fact they waited so long for so little, but hey, things happen....guess we'll just have to trust Mark and be even more patient. :-/ |
| ||
| Question is tho, would you really want pixel shaders and the like? Alot of cards don't support them. I had a gf4 mx and it didn't support them. But again it's down to what peoples opinion is and all should be respected :D |
| ||
| Question.. is BlitzMax going to cost more money ? I just purchased blitz3d and now am hearing that blitz3d isn't getting that many more new features, because he is putting all the new features into blitz max.. is this true.. also if so, why wasn't I told this by support when I asked him about blitz3d and the updates and what will come in the future, why wasn't I told to save my money and just purchase blitzmax instead.. ?? Thanks to anyone whom can help out with these questions. Ken |
| ||
| When i talk about updates I don't ask for the new and last technologies. I Don't ask for dx9 but if we could only have most of all DX7 features, and some of dx8 And some others, like multi weighted bones that i really need for my fighting games .... I know mark works a lot, i alone to make Blitz+, blitz3D, maplet and blitzmax So ... I think i'm gonna leave blitz. Can't wait 2 years fo blitzMax. blitz was far better than the other products in the past But product like dbpro are close to be as faster as blitz now, and with more and more features. I mean blitz was the best, is the best, but is closed to be old fashined because of the lack of real updates. This is my opinion Good luck everybody and good luck on your projects. Good Luck Mark with BlitzMax and deliver the community a great product. (i'll keep an eye on the community and what's happening with blitz ... ) byebye |
| ||
| I'm right there with ya' Chgros, I'm also leaving for lack of upgrades (NOT updates). I have pushed Blitz3D to some pretty far extremes, and was very pleased, but C/C++ is where I have been and will go for the latest bells and whistles. Don't GET me wrong Blitz Products are one of a kind, VERY GOOD in there own class if not the TOP of it's class. I also will keep monitoring the boards and watch as it matures, into a fully developing package at the top of the hill! Thanks all, and good luck to the lot of you, Thanks Mark for the wonderful opportuninty to use and see what "lone wolf" programming can accomplish! :) |
| ||
| Thanks, Mark - at least by posting here it shows you are listeng, and helps to 'restore faith' in us 'Blitzers' |
| ||
| But product like dbpro are close to be as faster as blitz now, and with more and more features. Sort of true. The main problem for me with DBPro is the language, the basics are lacking. You can create custom types and you have a much better dynamic array system than Blitz, but you can't return a custom type from a function! It is true that BB3D looks like it is getting a bit left behind and there are things I wish it supported, but it is still capable of a lot and great games shouldn't rely on the latest graphical features. I am a bit concerned about BlitzMAX, I remember reading about it on the Blitz web site in May 2002 and still there is nothing to show its existence apart from Mark's work logs. He is also working on Blitz Plus and Maplet as well, I just wonder whether one guy can support all this, especially when he wants to have a Mac (cough) and a Linux (spit) version. Hopefully, though, my fears will come to nothing. |
| ||
| so noone anwered me as to whether blitzmax is going to cost me another $100.00 if so, I'm out, and want a refund.. Thanks, Ken |
| ||
| Ken, BlitzMAX would prolly be a completely different product. Ie like blitz+. It will prolly cost you another 100$ but thats a small price to pay to have a new language to work with. I'd be willing to shell out more than twice that much for blitzmax. No one is prolly answering because they prolly assumed that they would be purchasing. Getting out of blitz would be kind of a waste though. Just because you dont get the newest software for free doesnt mean that blitz3d is incapable of doing what you want. And BTW why did you buy blitz3d in the first place? prolly because you were looking at building 3d games/apps quickly. Um.. guess what? it still does what you want when you bought it. And better than DBpro. |
| ||
| I'm very happy with Blitz3d as it stands and I haven't even downloaded the 1.85 update yet ! I can understand the frustration caused by the 'phantom' product BlitzMax. All the confusion is caused by poor communication - the worklogs don't even have a date ! Any reference to BlitzMax is vague in the extreme. There is no proposed release date or even approximation. BlitzMax seems to be too far away to be real. I remenber when the product was announced years ago there was a whole load of people who would be working on various parts of it. Terabit e.g was supposed to be working on the IDE - this seems to have fallen by the wayside. I don't care if BlitzMax exist or not or is just an idea in the programmers head - if it does exist I will probably purchase it and I'm sure it will be wonderful - however the constant diatribe that BlitzMax will be the panacea for all ills is wearing a bit thin. I will continue to use Blitz3d till something better comes along - currently there is nothing better ! |
| ||
| Thanks very much for the responses Mark -- all of them seem well reasoned and surprisingly sane ;) Glad to see you've upgraded your hardware :o !!! |
| ||
| This is the issue though, I started to purchase dbpro for the new features, then when I realized it did not contain a map editor I decided on Blitz only after talking to the support people, and them stating that it is updated on a regular basis for the most part, yet he admitted it hadn't been updated in quite a while, but he stated it was do for an update, as to imply that the newer features that I wanted would eventually find their way into blitz, now I am hearing a conflicting tale stating that the new features such as direct x 9 support will probably only be added into blitzmax, and that I bought a product pretty much at the end of its life cycle and that they wouldn't continue to update it a year or so from now. This is definitely not what I wanted or expected, I expected purchasing a product at least to have a useful updated product, for some time to come. This is not what I am seeing. thanks for your help. Ken |
| ||
| But Blitz3d is VERY capable of making REAL games. I still don't really see why people are leaving blitz because of lack of features or updates. There are still many wonderful games i can think of to make that don't require any new features. If you make the best of what you got, there's no stopping you. Look at Halos/Rockstars FPS. Looks absolutely brilliant and it uses only the features blitz has just now. A bit of hard work doesn't go a miss. Halo even released a free physics system. My thoughts anyway. Generally if i can't get something done, i blame myself, instead of taking the easy way out and saying the language doesn't have enough features. |
| ||
| Altough this Thread is pretty entertaining it makes me a bit sad when I see that some people don't respect the creative Forces behind Blitz. Personally I am happy with Blitz as it is. I remember I mentioned two missing Features in Blitz in the past 4 weeks and now they are implemented! (classname and texturename, thanks!) I am really not a crack or something but maybe these Requests have been a bit more realistic than "the DX9 Stuff we need to beat the doom 3 engine". Ok, sometimes I wonder when we will have BlitzMAX and if we will have Linux Support etc, because I would like to coordinate my Business Plans. But I also understand that under some circumstances the Development of a Product must be handled secretly. |
| ||
| Storm3, what a rediculous request. You bought B3d as a the product it was at the time of purchase since no feature is gauranteed to be added. So asking if BlitzMax, a COMPLETELY different product, will be free or you want a refund is from a business point of view POINTLESS. You can't make an imaginary link between these products. Get to work you sods :). |
| ||
| >and them stating that it is updated on a >regular basis for the most part, yet he admitted it hadn't >been updated in quite a while, but he stated it was do for >an update, Which is fact. >as to imply that the newer features that I >wanted would eventually find their way into blitz Did he say that, or did you just understand it that way? >now I >am hearing a conflicting tale stating that the new >features such as direct x 9 support will probably only be >added into blitzmax, and that I bought a product pretty >much at the end of its life cycle and that they wouldn't >continue to update it a year or so from now. Look, alot of people in this thread are putting forth their opinion as absolute truth, and I can understand that you are looking at B3D now, wondering if you bought an obsolete product which will be replaced tomorrow. When I first experienced these kinds of threads, I felt the same way... However, bear in mind that only Mark Sibly knows what is what, and everything else is speculation. I think alot of people are speculating too much... However, the speculation is propably due to the lack of information which is much sought after in the community. The problem is that when Mark comments on the future of B3D or Blitz MAX or even the language of Blitz products, then a heated debate begins. One side couldn't care less about compatibility and want B3D to be all DX9 with all of the bells and whistles to make DOOM3 clones, and the other side wants DX7 and stability in order to produce good looking games for the massmarket. Either side is full of egos and in the end Mark is caught in the middle having to make the long term plans, knowing that everybody will be offended because their pet feature didn't make it. This is propably why he doesn't post more info and why he said that we just have to trust him. Some people say that DBP has better features, which it has, but at the price of severely limited compatibility, a boatload of bugs and the slight problem that some features have been removed due to poor implementation. Blitz MAX was first discussed on the 'Blitz Basement', in 2001-2002 as far as I can recall... However, it was called Blitz Pro then and was just a concept. What I understand from reading Marks worklog, is that Blitz MAX only exists as a compiler in Alpha state... It is nowhere near 'feature complete' and as Mark Sibly recently stated there are no Betas in existance, which in my opinion means that Blitz MAX is nowhere near production ready. This is my opinion based on the worklogs. >This is >definitely not what I wanted or expected, I expected >purchasing a product at least to have a useful updated >product, for some time to come. This is not what I am >seeing. You are seeing bickering, hysteria, egos, speculation and uninformed opinion. Noone here knows what is coming, and in their infinite wisdom, many people are heating up the debate in order to stroke their own egos. B3D doesn't magically lose the ability to create executables when Blitz MAX goes into production. It is very capable as it is, and I don't think that we will be disapointed in the future. In the worklog, Mark Sibly writes that a DX9 update is in the cards, but will involve rewriting part of the engine. Many people here read that and think 'cool, so we'll have full DX9 support at the end of the week'... Come on, let the guy work in peace... When it's ready, we'll get to see it. I am not the guy with all of the answers, and I speak for myself only, so take it for what it's worth. Andy |
| ||
| Okay you guys, I agree, I just found it surprising that I purchased a dead product though, I thought this product would continue to receive updates and new features long after I purchased it... That is all, I don't want to see myself with a product within 6 months and there are no further updates for it at all, that is all I am saying, and yes I also agree, from what I have seen, blitz is great and mark has alot to be proud of, and I also agree it is up to you to make the games as great as they can be, and if you are unable to make something then the help is here, and we are able to make libraries, which in itself makes this system updateable by the users if nothing else. Exactly, like the physics system or even the blitzplay. I agree.. I do like what I have seen so far, and have already made large advances in learning the system, I already have my vehicle selection screen ported over from rad to blitz and it looks 3 times better under blitz and is much nicer. Also as for the language, the addition of functions is very sweet indeed, what is this class thing somone mentioned though ? I didn't see that listed in the updates description of features changed or added. Please don't misunderstand me, I am not here to flame, or start anything, I am very happy here, and will stay here, it's just like I said, I didn't want to find out that in 6 months, I have blitz3d and everyone switched to max, and there are no more blitz updates. That is all, but I have received nothing but warm welcomes here, and helpful guidance so far, so yes I am happy, and here to stay. Just call me gunshy, I got burned with 3d Rad.. well I can't even say that, but currently it is in a state almost unuseable for my multiplayer game work. But who is to say for updates down the road. Thanks, and I hope you guys understand. I am here to help just like you guys, and enjoy being with a mature large community like this, where people are helping each other instead of flaming each other. Thanks again, Ken |
| ||
| Oh no! The DOT3 isn't quite what I expected (even though it hasn't been officially released yet except as an 'easter egg'), the programmer doesn't keep me informed each time he takes a dump and my game (which is still a year or longer from being finished) doesn't have the latest DX9 feature which it just absolutely needs right now and I can't progress it any further until it's available! Waah! It's a dead language! I've been ripped off! I'm going to buy DarkBasic Pro! I'm going to fall down and roll around like a bluebottle that's just been flysprayed! |
| ||
| As long as you dont feel the need to desroy all of mankind it should be allright :) |
| ||
| I think it's pretty silly to suggest Blitz3D is dead, especially given there was an update just a few days ago, and Mark has indicated otherwise in this very thread. "I have been working on other things which will *eventually* benefit all Blitz products." ALL Blitz products. You just need some patience. |
| ||
| Ken, you are implying that I told you DX9 features were on the way in the then-upcoming update; this is not even remotely true. Talk of a 'dead' product is utter nonsense too. Did you miss the update for Blitz 3D that was just released? Did anyone say it was the last update? Did you see the recent Blitz Plus updates? Any mention of them being final updates? Where are people getting these ridiculous ideas from? The reason Mark hasn't specified a time frame for Blitz Max is because he has made that mistake in the past and been hung, drawn and quartered for it; Blitz Max is meant to give Blitz a fresh start, learning from past experience to produce something as flexible and powerful as possible, and built upon a solid foundation. I for one am glad it's not being rushed to get Full Buzzword Compatibility bolted on in any old state. |
| ||
| Um, where does it say "if you buy Blitz you are entitled to free updates FOREVER and EVER amen"??? Surely, as with any software, you're buying it "as is". Updates are a bonus. Surely? Why is Blitz treated as an exception to the rule? (OK I said "surely" twice in the same sentence, but such is my amazement). |
| ||
| Blitzmax isn't necessarily the product people want. People might cry that they want their money back, but fail to see that BlitzMax is probably going to cost a LOT more than Blitz3D, and all 3 products live together. BlitzPlus Blitz3D BlitzMax All different prices. For different purposes. |
| ||
| Please see my post "Perspective..." |
| ||
| James, I am not implying anything, but you did tell me there were lots of updates and provided me with the versions.txt file to support this fact, and you in fact did say that it did not have all the latest bells and whistles but you did make it seem as there was a possibility that these features would be implemented down the road, you did not mention anything about blitzmax. Everyone is jumping on me, I am just saying that I am happy with what I found so far, and I only want to be sure that this product continues to grow, and like I said above, that in 6 months it dies off.. That is all, I never said it was dead, I am merely inquiring about the future of the product I just purchased, and I think that is far within my rights as a customer. As for everyone else, you have so far proved my last statement to be false, as noone seems to be acting mature anymore, and the flaming has indeed started here as well. I just want to shutup now, sit back and develop my games, I am sorry if I insulted anyone, but now I really feel like I don't belong here. Thanks, Ken |
| ||
| On the contrary, I do not think it is a dead product, I am working on two game projects currently with it, and look forward to moving on, and developing many more. Everyone misunderstood me, from what I was hearing people say here, it sounded as if I purchased a dead project, but I don't think this is the case, there is to much activity by other users developing libs and stuff. Ken |
| ||
| Hey storm, sorry if it sounds like pepl are flaming you, but this crops up alot, ppl saying that blitz isn't packed with the latest features and stuff, and ppl (maybe including myself) have maybe taken what you've said as knocking blitz. Sorry bout that! |
| ||
| thank you, that makes me feel better, I just made some statements and whamo everyone was all over me, I didn't know what was going on.. I was just re-stating what other people had been saying in here. Thanks for making me feel better, Ken |
| ||
| In all fairness, I'm still amazed that we get ANY updates for free. I can't seem to understand how Blitz Research is making any money on this product by giving everything away. I would have expected, say, a years worth of updates after purchasing, but to expect to get updates for free forever... well, that just seems unrealistic. (Anyone every hear of a company called Microsoft?) Another thing seems to escape logic here and that's that obviously some Blitz Users are purchasing "Vapor Ware" or "Future Ware"??? (Excluding, of course, anyone who feels they were mislead). But as I recall, there was a trial period to the demo, which allows you to check out the program (thoroughly) before purchasing. When I bought it, I thought I was purchasing Blitz3D, not BlitzMAX or BlitzDX9 or Blitz2006... Anyway, I would rather see Blitz Users paying some sort of "Annual Maintenance Fee" for the Blitz Products vs. this "One Time Gets All" concept. Why??? Well, I'd like to know that the person (or persons) behind the future development of this product are going to KEEP developing this product. My fear would be to come to this site one day and find that Blitz has been discontinued due to "lack of funding". So, to those who want everything for free, just remember... you get what you pay for. Well, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong ;) |
| ||
| Batman -- I totally agree. I actually find products like Purebasic and Blitz3D that offer unlimited lifetime upgrades to be highly worrying, because ultimately they'll need a new source of revenue, which means orphaning the product and releasing something new and incompatible. One of my favorite ever programs is a Macintosh program called GraphicConverter. I bought a license in 1991, and it has gone through about 200 minor and 4 major revisions since then. They FINALLY charged for an upgrade this year. This is the exception -- most programs with free upgrade policies simply die on the vine. I think GraphicConverter continued as long as it did because it was selling tens of thousands of new licenses every year... |
| ||
| I like the free updates, and I suspect, mark does too, considering he doesn't have any obligations when releasing free updates. However we start getting alot of people crying because the updates don't have feature "X" then he might start charging, and neither us nor Mark *really* want that. A producing being "dead" is really a relative concept anyways. Personally I think blitzmax should be made to replace all other versions of blitz, and that us blitzer's should get a discount on it when it comes out. I don't want to end up buying a bunch of seperate products for a single thing. Like I started a game in 2D but using blitz3d, and not using the hardware accel features. I realized I would probably need to purchase blitzplus, so the file size would stay down, and so i could get the gui features of blitzplus. Since BP came out, I shouldn't have even started a 2d game in blitz3d, but now I have... So I can release the game when it's done, in it's almost 1 meg version (because of all the b3d commands included) or I can buy B+ and recompile it get the gui commands as well as have the exe size be cut down at least in half. And don't speak to me about upx, because there's still the same thing with that, a b3d and b+ exe would get cut in half, so then i'd have to decide 256k verses 512k (and i know those aren't exact sizes but that's the relative size difference). I hereby in front of all the witnesses herein, do solomnly apologize for asking for a blitz3d update, when so many other people have cried for an update. When an update was also on it's way but, just slowly because Mark was busy. Virtually Signed, Keith Weatherby II, in the year of our Lord, The 3rd of October, Two-thousand and three. :-) |
| ||
| Ken, I've just looked at the emails I sent you and I'm really failing to see where I made any comment that even remotely suggests things like DX9 support, even 'down the line'. Don't feel like you're being jumped on, but I really don't warm to the suggestion that I would lead people on under false pretences, as that's one thing we've always tried to avoid with Blitz. Feel free to mail me if you want to take me to task for anything I may have said (or post here if you prefer), but I genuinely do not see anything in my mails that could even be misinterpreted in that way! Again, don't go feeling like you're unwelcome -- people at least get to say what they think around here as long as they're not outright trolling or being abusive! :) |
| ||
| James, I am at work right now, so am unable to post the comments or the emails.. When I get home, if I still have them and not deleted from the trash, I will post them, anyway if you did not mean that blitz would ever have any features, then I am sorry for misunderstanding.. but this dead horse is getting old.. can we get on and make some games to sell ? ;') |
| ||
| btw if everyone wanted the latest features I heard from slashdot that the engine for HL2 is floating around. Just a thought. ;') |
| ||
| OMG, we should be very happy we have free updates, and when you look at updates.txt, we see that we have a lots of new features thanks to this... |
| ||
| hehehe.. of course that was a joke .. hehehe |
| ||
| Question, how do I get this to display my picture in my signature ? |
| ||
| Take out the image tags. |
| ||
| Lets see if it works now... |
| ||
| I love Blitz. Yes Blitz doesn't have all the features that some of us belive it should have, but then again I've never used a language that was so easy to program and would come up with amazing results so fast. I've programmed in C++ before and hated it because of how hard it was to do something so simple which I can do with a couple of lines of code in Blitz. The main thing is to be patient and have faith in Mark because doing what he does isn't easy, and if it were we wouldn't be using Blitz. I also have to say I regret that some members of this community will leave because of the lack of features Blitz currently lacks, because I belive one of Blitz's greatest strengths is it's community and losing one of the members is always bad. But I suspect that most will return in some time in the future. As for where Blitz is headed, It's head in the right direction, where Mark wants it to go. Overall since the existance of Blitz Mark seems to done pretty good with the project and I imagine he will continue to do so. As I have said before trust and be patient with him. On a final note there is only one thing that Blitz is missing which we, the community, can provide and that is Media. Attending, The Art Institute of Phoenix myself, I will be learning how to produce a lot of the things we need and hope I will be able to share my talents in the near future. In the mean time those who can have the skills have been doing what they can and that is greatly appreciated. Now that I've said my part back to work creating my next project. So long all. Oh yeah wasn't Blitz coder holding a modeling contest. I wanted to enter a model I had for the Blitz community. Does anyone have any info on this? |
| ||
| At first I was impressed with a cube mapping, until I saw a demo written in another application which uses render to texture and was able to do realtime reflections using cube mapping with virtually no speed hit at all. |
| ||
| Message to Mark: I just wish all this bitching would stop. Those who are threatening to leave Blitz - let 'em - to you guys, you'll only ever be happy if you get an SDK and C++, but good luck; the rest of us would like a life as well (I gave up 5 years of my life and a marriage for a product that only netted me £3k) so the fact that Mark has provided a sound, rounded framework for my development is a godsend. I thought 2 years ago that I'd have to write my own 3D engine (!) to do what I set out to do - Mark, thanks to you I can get on with being productive. But seriously, I know what _I'm_ working on (even if I'm keeping it close to my chest) and the demos, worklogs and galleries are pretty explicit as to what other people are working on. Don't you people realise that we ARE getting to the point where we can match Wolfenstein and Morrowind! Mark, how many times can I say 'thanks'? And it's obvious that you know your work well enough that we should trust you as far as what goes in, and what gets left out. Close your eyes and use the Force, guys. This man Mark Sibly is a champion and knows what he's doing. And Mark, if you need to charge for each release in order to keep going, then DO IT! I'll pay. Thanks for everything. (And I hope you're getting a life somehow, as well.) |
| ||
| To the French folks: Nihi yvwi alasinahisdodi nasgiyai golagi nigesvna |
| ||
| Hi I thrust Mark, because i think he is doing the best for BlitzBasic ! PS: i coded HL3 in B3d ;) Anyone remember the thing with indicon ? |
| ||
| . |
   |